The Witness

Mr E

The hype is starting to build for this one. See this article on Wired about how The Witness might be your next puzzle obsession.

Interesting to note that this game is going to be 100 hours long for some people.
For an RPG or MMO, that's fine. For a puzzle game with finite mechanics, is 100 hours too long?

Out January 26th on PC and PS4.

tok9

Mr E wrote: »

The hype is starting to build for this one. See this article on Wired about how The Witness might be your next puzzle obsession.

Interesting to note that this game is going to be 100 hours long for some people.
For an RPG or MMO, that's fine. For a puzzle game with finite mechanics, is 100 hours too long?

Out January 26th on PC and PS4.

From looking at the trailer, it does look like the puzzles vary. There is one part where you seem to be guiding a boat around so I'd be interested to see if there are a lot of these types of puzzles.

Either way, it's a game I'd definitely be into.

Xenji

Mr E wrote: »

The hype is starting to build for this one. See this article on Wired about how The Witness might be your next puzzle obsession.

Interesting to note that this game is going to be 100 hours long for some people.
For an RPG or MMO, that's fine. For a puzzle game with finite mechanics, is 100 hours too long?

Out January 26th on PC and PS4.

The game is meant to have over 650 puzzles with more possible before release, hopefully they are well varied, if the game is anywhere near as good as Braid I will be quite happy with it.

Fakman87

Lads this is coming out next week. So excited for it. I never ever buy games on release but I'd easily pay 100 quid for this, Jonathan Blow is that impressive to me. He said he'd happily lose all of his Braid money making this, once it's a good game. That kind of sentiment is so rare these days.

gizmo

Getting pretty excited for it alright. Edmund McMillen (Super Meat Boy, Binding of Issac) tweeted these this morning too.

https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/691344659033911296

https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/691366038093475840

https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/691366202409484288

Mr E

A 10/10 masterpiece, according to IGN.
http://ie.ign.com/articles/2016/01/25/the-witness-review

Looking forward to giving it a good crack at the weekend.

johnny_ultimate

It's been a long goddamn wait for this. I'd still consider Braid one of the most important artistic (and indeed commercial) paradigm shifts in gaming history. As lengthy as the wait has been, I can't help but be even more excited that a creator with a genuinely intellectually, philosophically and formally robust engagement with the medium has taken his time to make his follow-up. I expect nothing but the best things here, which is potentially a gateway to disappointment, but if anybody can follow through on their promises...

https://killscreen.com/articles/the-witness-is-videogames-long-take/

If what creative lead Jonathan Blow says is true about the enduring faith that The Witness asks of its players (80+ hours of time/very small percentage of players will complete every puzzle) then it’s sort of the ultimate videogame-as-long take—a long take being when a film doesn’t cut away to a new shot for minutes on end. And I’m not talking about the Alfonso Cuaron kind of long take where there’s all sorts of high stakes suspense—like spinning space stations and last child to be born on Earth kind of tension. No, The Witness is more like a Bela Tarr or Andrei Tarkovsky long take.

tok9

I've already heard enough anyway.

I've finally got a PS4 now too.. all I need is a tv and i can play it! :pac:

Captain Chaos

Is this out for all PSN regions tonight or just the US. I can't see any other release dates than the 26th so I'm hoping it going live shortly.

GhostInTheRuins

I can't wait for this. I really love first person puzzle games and have been playing a lot of them lately, Talos Principle, Qube, Attractio and this looks great too.

The graphics look amazing, but the one thing I'm worried about is the puzzles, apparently all the puzzles are those maze puzzles so I'm curious to see how they can hold your interest all the way through. All the reviews sound very promising.

super_furry

5/5 from Giantbomb - http://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/the-witness-review/1900-730/

Think I'll be downloading it this week. Been a real long time since there's been a game like this.

DeSelby83

Its up on the US store for anyone who wants it. No sign on EU store yet but its supposed to be around this time too

EDIT: Its up on both stores now. 7gb download apparently

Otacon

Now we wait for the work day to finish.

Duggy747

This has been on my watchlist for years.

I ended up forgetting about it and now I realise it's out today, excellent surprise! :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Steam version sitting in my library, teasing me, taunting me, singing out of key...

Battleflag

Been off all day and the steam version doesn't unlock until 6pm! This is so unfair - can't wait to play it!

johnny_ultimate

Steam version is a go!

johnny_ultimate

Played a few hours there. Utterly engrossing, beautiful, enigmatic, intelligent.

This is about as pure as game design gets. No extraneous nonsense. No overly complicated systems, menus etc... Just a simple puzzle mechanic constantly subverted and expanded. I'm only 120 minutes in or so, but there's already been some inspired moments that completely throw you for a loop, or add ingenious new twists to trip you just when you think you've got the hang of a particular mechanic. There was one part involving a

suddenly invisible line in a 'symmetry puzzle'

that made me laugh aloud as it was such an unexpectedly brilliant flourish.

It's an incredible feat how everything is communicated here. No tutorials, no UI, no hints - simply an easy to understand central premise that is constantly built upon through environmental and gameplay guidance. I reckon if you want to teach game design students how to make a tutorial, the opening hours here are what you'd point to.

What a world it is too. I don't know if I've ever played a game with such vivid colour - really a feast for the eyes. Runs like a dream on PC (constant frame rate in the 100s with V-Sync off). It already seems jam-packed with mysteries and secrets - every stray path or point of interest I've found so far has led to something substantial and meaningful (well, if it's not locked behind a particularly baffling puzzle :pac:). I've only encountered one audio log so far, but the way the environment, art design and mechanics coalesce with each other means there's always narrative and thematic intrigue ticking away in the background.

I'm playing Xenoblade Chronicles X at the moment, a game which unquestionably has its pleasures. But it's an ungodly mess too - with half-baked systems that are both simplistic and weirdly convoluted, huge amounts of padding, painful exposition dumps, a UI and design that seems to actively want to pull you out of the world. The Witness, despite also being 'open' is the exact opposite, a masterpiece of minimalism and controlled communication. It has reinvented and surprised me several more times in two hours than Xenoblade has managed in ten. After a 2015 that offered a seemingly endless parade of bloated (if often enjoyable) open world games, The Witness at once seems like a critique and response to the prevalent mode of game design. The first two hours of this game were masterful and engrossing - here's to a few dozen more.

ShaneU

Haven't felt this stupid playing a game since Braid. Felt pretty clever figuring out one of the early tree puzzles though

so for those who have bought the game is it solving one line-board puzzle and then go the next one? so the island itself is just a conduit between puzzles?

johnny_ultimate

glasso wrote: »

so for those who have bought the game is it solving one line-board puzzle and then go the next one? so the island itself is just a conduit between puzzles?

They complement each other quite a bit. While obviously the puzzles are the core of the game, the island is a fascinating place to explore in itself and in some cases enhances the meaning and context of the puzzles. Without going into specifics, there was one series of puzzles I solved the opened up an area that recontextualised the mechanic that had just been explored, and fed into the game's overall narrative themes - and that's just through a small little area of environmental objects, without a word said

kearneybobs

glasso wrote: »

so for those who have bought the game is it solving one line-board puzzle and then go the next one? so the island itself is just a conduit between puzzles?

Almost, but not quit. It's hard to talk about the game without spoiling the stuff that you discover as you go along.

Walked myself into a corner I think last night and I'm not sure how to go on. Mostly since how thought I was actually understanding how the particular puzzle was solved I hit a wall on the last puzzle on the boards that progressively get harder. It's the one where you

have to solve the puzzles with the yellow block shapes and incorporate the shapes into the solution.

It's a head scratcher. Might just have to sit there and brute force it.... Had to take out the pen and paper last night to solve ones involving

colour changes in a greenhouse

VinLieger

Im hearing pretty positive stuff so far and really want to give this a go, but have a question for those who have played, do you think this would fit in well as a couch game with the GF? Ive seen 1 or 2 people saying it would but just looking for more opinions

kearneybobs

Got myself out of the corner I thought I was stuck in. Ended up realising that

to get back out and move the platform back to the other side you needed to draw it out on the puzzle that got you over there

. didn't realise it was a puzzle that had two answers. The answers being

a depiction of what you want the platform to do.

johnny_ultimate

May have audibly yelped when I solved this ****er:



And of course given the series of increasingly more difficult series of puzzles that followed, it now seems almost trivially easy :pac:

Downloading as we speak for the PS4, can't wait to get into it. Will report back!

kearneybobs

Got a 1GB update on PC this morning. Not sure what that was about.

Mr E

I heard there were some complaints about some people getting motion sickness and Blow was working on a fix. Didn't think it would be out so quick though...

Interesting to see the number of negative reviews (and that they're the ones being shown first on the product page).
I guess this game isn't for everyone.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/210970/

strelok

I actually jumped out of my chair and started clapping when I solved a particular puzzle

disgusted with myself

johnny_ultimate

After making some very good progress today (including increasing my tape recorder count by 300% in the space of ten minutes :pac:) my mind has just become frazzled by a

shadow

puzzle. Hopefully the shape will be clearer with a refreshed pair of eyes

I played a bit last night. I absolutely loved braid so I had to get this. It's good but definitely overrated IMO. I don't think I've played as far as you guys but I've found the puzzles repetitive already. Same things with a slight twist. Is there any narrative at all? I don't like that it's first person either.

tok9

Finally picked it up earlier today and played for an hour or 2 and so far I love it. Going back and forth between puzzles and just having that eureka moment is wonderful.

I'm only after getting the first laser going and finished up there for tonight. I'll crack on again tomorrow.

johnny_ultimate

I would say there's a narrative but not a plot if that makes any sense. The environment, logs and occasionally puzzles themselves provide context and hints, and I think a number of prevalent themes and ideas emerge the more you explore. But they're boiling away in the background, rarely front and centre (audio logs excepted, but even they're thematically focused as opposed to directly explanatory). But for anything concrete about what's happened on the island, those hints are well hidden.

That said, it perhaps conjures up the strongest sense of place I've experienced in a game in a long while. The level of detail and design (the presence of architects is keenly felt!) are incredible and it's a real sensory feast.

I haven't played nearly as much as you guys from what I've read. I'll keep an open mind non the less.

It feels identical to Antichamber and Talos Principle so far. Both decent games but certainly not ground breaking must-play games. They are vessels for quirky puzzles. Although after looking up quick reviews just now, they do score very highly! Maybe I'm just not completely sold on the genre.

If you feel like taking off the binoculars, you can change fov: http://www.gamerevolution.com/faq/the-witness/how-to-fix-the-field-of-view-fov-on-pc-version-121961

I find the tetris block puzzles the hardest by miles. I thought I figured them out around 5 times only for them to break the rules I had came up with.

strelok

how I feel playing the witness

johnny_ultimate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find the tetris block puzzles the hardest by miles. I thought I figured them out around 5 times only for them to break the rules I had came up with.

At the tail-end of them and they are indeed brain melting. The first one up on the balcony just wouldn't click with me for ages, thankfully the rest haven't been quite so stupefying but the next one I have to tackle looks tricky.

Definitely one of the sets I've found a pen and paper handy for to visualise some of the combinations.

My camera roll is becoming increasingly chock full of line puzzle reference photos too :pac:

Ugh there was one set of puzzles that weren't intuitive. It was in a room with lots of flowers and stain glass. You have to separate each set of colours into its own box. The first 6 or so follow this rule. One of them then breaks this. You have to just make sure different colours aren't in the same box. Meaning you can have two boxes for one colour if you can't join them. I was stuck on puzzle there for 30 mins. Was this my fault? Or did other people make the same logical error?

so what's the verdict after 20 to 30 hours - anyone got that far? gets boringly repetitive or still think it's good?

the silence is deafening - think that I'll pass on this game or wait for a deal down the line.

The Witness. It's a handy little game where I can throw on a podcast on or listen to some music at the same time. It's identical to Talos Principle or Antichamber. I'm not sure I can consider it a game in the traditional sense. It's like playing those brain training games. It's overrated. A solid 8/10 puzzler at best. A game like Portal is 10/10 in this genre. Too bad there is almost a non existent narrative. It isn't a patch on Braid so I was quite underwhelmed at first, but comparing those two games is apples and oranges. It's missing some of the twitch elements from Braid. There is no element of skill or time pressure to any of the puzzles so it's like doing a crossword at a leisurely pace. There is something about a first person puzzle game that just feels off. I don't really care much for the "beauty" of the island. In fact, I wish it would direct you to incomplete puzzles. I found myself wandering the same areas far too much not knowing where to go. You absolutely have to increase the fov. I was getting motion sickness before increasing it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The Witness. It's a handy little game where I can throw on a podcast on or listen to some music at the same time. It's identical to Talos Principle or Antichamber. I'm not sure I can consider it a game in the traditional sense. It's like playing those brain training games. It's overrated. A solid 8/10 puzzler at best. A game like Portal is 10/10 in this genre. Too bad there is almost a non existent narrative. It isn't a patch on Braid so I was quite underwhelmed at first, but comparing those two games is apples and oranges. It's missing some of the twitch elements from Braid. There is no element of skill or time pressure to any of the puzzles so it's like doing a crossword at a leisurely pace. There is something about a first person puzzle game that just feels off. I don't really care much for the "beauty" of the island. In fact, I wish it would direct you to incomplete puzzles. I found myself wandering the same areas far too much not knowing where to go. You absolutely have to increase the fov. I was getting motion sickness before increasing it.

yes it seems like this game was over-hyped. the price is too much for just a set of line puzzles tbh. seems like they get a bit too frustrating for a lot of people also forcing abandonment or resorting to online solutions.

johnny_ultimate

In contrast, I am 20 hours in and am still being surprised and impressed at the level of ingenuity and depth on display. It's easily the most brilliantly designed game I've played in several years, and am finding it absolutely engrossing. It's tough but fair, and have yet to look up any solutions - as Blow himself has indicated, it would be real shame to do so given how rewarding figuring out the game's ruleset is. It also boasts the most beautiful and intriguing game world I have explored in the longest time, an absolute triumph of art design and careful environmental storytelling.

glasso

glasso wrote: »

yes it seems like this game was over-hyped. the price is too much for just a set of line puzzles tbh. seems like they get a bit too frustrating for a lot of people also forcing abandonment or resorting to online solutions.

That said, I find it very... therapeutic. It's incredibly relaxing as long as you are slowly making progress. I imagine a game like this would be absolutely amazing on the oculus rift. It surprises me at how many different puzzles Jonathon Blow can create out of a simple two-dimensional board where you essentially are drawing a line from point A to B.

I can see why people can give it 10/10 but I can also see why some people would give it 3/10. Is it worth the game worth price tag alone? Probably just about, but more importantly I want to fund this guy Jonathon Blow to continue to make games like this. He is obviously a very, very smart guy and he's doing innovative things.

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

In contrast, I am 20 hours in and am still being surprised and impressed at the level of ingenuity and depth on display. It's easily the most brilliantly designed game I've played in several years, and am finding it absolutely engrossing. It's tough but fair, and have yet to look up any solutions - as Blow himself has indicated, it would be real shame to do so given how rewarding figuring out the game's ruleset is. It also boasts the most beautiful and intriguing game world I have explored in the longest time, an absolute triumph of art design and careful environmental storytelling.

What story is there to tell? Random preaching voice notes describing Blow's philosophical leaning don't add up to a story to me. Stone people dotted around the Island? To compare this to Portal; they aren't a patch on GLaDOS or Wheatley.

tok9

Over 180 puzzles in myself and I absolutely adore the game too.

Going from having no idea to solving multiple rules in a puzzle feels so rewarding. I won't lie though I have looked up how to solve 1 puzzle. I'm seriously going to try and refrain from that again.

Now I've just learned to move on and come back later.

Zillah

Deleted User wrote: »

I imagine a game like this would be absolutely amazing on the oculus rift.

It apparently has hidden VR support which can be activated via command line. It's buggy and alpha-ish but it exists. I'll make a wager that a patch will go live that activates it properly once CV1 starts arriving on doorsteps.

johnny_ultimate

glasso wrote:

yes it seems like this game was over-hyped. the price is too much for just a set of line puzzles tbh.

The 'just line puzzles' argument is IMO an extremely reductive take on the game, no better than claiming Half Life is 'just shooting' or Street Fighter 'just fighting'. Yes the core mechanic is tracing a line through mazes, but it's a mechanic that reveals immense depths and variety as you progress through the game.

I'd go as far as to say the game is Blow and his team critically responding to prevalent game design trends. Too many games reveal pretty much all their mechanical nuances within an hour or two, then spend varying amounts of times creating minor variations on a theme, or using fairly lazy methods of varying the flow or challenge (longer health bars, weapon restrictions etc...). Some (most?) games don't even do that, instead just making the player do the same thing over and over and over with few attempts to refresh the formula. Games that legitimately continue to surprise after a two dozen hours are very thin on the ground.

The Witness is, at least partially, an attempt to make a long, large game that is constantly reinventing itself and genuinely challenging the player's understanding of perhaps the most straightforward central mechanic possible. I'm not a game designer, but this **** is game design porn - an idea taken to its creative extreme.

There's a memorable moment midway Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath that forces you to completely re-evaluate and re-learn everything you've learned to date through an ingenious narrative rug pull. From there on out the game fundamentally changes in a really refreshing and interesting way. It's the same game but radically different too. The Witness feels like dozens of smaller moments like that.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What story is there to tell? Random preaching voice notes describing Blow's philosophical leaning don't add up to a story to me. Stone people dotted around the Island? To compare this to Portal; they aren't a patch on GLaDOS or Wheatley.

I would say Portal and The Witness are pretty much incomparable - and I don't meant that as a slight on either, because they're both superb in their own way.

As I suggested elsewhere in the thread, The Witness' story is less about plot but quiet, elliptical ruminations on its themes and ideas. Sometimes that's through the loosely scattered recorders, more often it's images or scenes subtly planted around the environment. If anything, the recorders are one of the more heavy handed methods employed here.

There's more overt examples of that - the keep, for example, has quite a bit of 'story' compared to other locations. But the island itself is intriguingly mysterious and communicative too, deeply atmospheric and full of secrets, connections and background details. That's what I mean with 'environmental storytelling'. There's certainly nothing in the way of wise-cracking psychopathic artificial intelligence, and the narrative is frankly more understated than I ever expected. It's more comparable to a painting or 'non-narrative' cinema at times, although I think there's more obvious 'narrative' there too. But it's the kind of aesthetic and approach I increasingly appreciate in games, and this is one of the most masterly approaches to that I've yet had the pleasure to experience

johnny_ultimate

The way to access

the rapidly closing door in the treehouse section

took me a bloody age to figure out - although it might be one of the most deviously clever in the game.

tok9

So I'm stuck and I don't mean by a puzzle. In one of the area's

The Quarry

, I'm in a shed (one of the points for the boat) and I solved a puzzle which allowed me to raise a panel so I could reach a higher point.

Then I solved some more puzzles and that panel moves to another point but I didn't get on it at the time. Now I can't get to it and I've no way of getting back to the ground. I've tried resetting the puzzles but that's been no use.

Have I missed something?

EDIT: Forget it, I just figured it out. Amazing how quickly that happens when you take a small break.