oldie seeking career change into teaching maths

stabeek

Hi

I was born in the sixties and have commercial, technical and science experience as well as MSc.

Been thinking things over recently and warming to the idea of going into teaching here in IRL mybe secondary Maths/Physics, mainly because I thinking I'd really enjoy it ( I've given training in work, and it's always been the best bit for me). I've also given grinds ... good fun.

It would be nice to hear some suggestions about what official paths I could have / have not at my disposal.

My first thought was a H. Dip because despite my age, I'd be a first time teacher. But any how, any suggestions welcome.

Cheers.

stabeek

carrer/career

evolving_doors

ring teaching council and see if your quals. are useful. If not, then, back to college ...
the hdip is known as a PME now and 2 yrs in length. yould want to prepare youself for a few years of low income before getting a job.
Have a look at educationposts.ie to see what's on offer.
physics is a minority subject.

2011abc

Unless you have zero financial commitments and/or are independently wealthy this is a crazy plan .You will never see a decent pension and likely not a permanent full time job in first half to full decade .Pay and conditions vastly disimproved and getting worse .Never thought I'd hear myself say this but it would almost / certainly be better to train /work in England if this is a short term goal. Do you not want to retire before 65 ? Even if you COULD start a full time permanent job in morning and worked to 65 you would get pension of little more than contributory OAP .

stabeek

Thanks Gebgbegb and 2011abc for your replies, will take good note.

If anybody has actually ever done this, it would also be interesting to hear about experiences. Cheers.

rainbowtrout

I'd say the bottom line here is can you afford to do this?

I assume you are about the 50 mark, give or take a couple of years. The PME is a 2 year commitment and there might be the possibility of needing to take credits in physics/maths if your qualifications have a shortfall. The PME will cost you 10-12k and you won't be in a position to work full time, you might be able to do some part time/weekend work during the course, but not during regular daytime working hours.

Can you afford 2-3 years of being a student with fees? Going into teaching in your fifties and maybe working at it for 10-15 years means you will not get anything more than the state pension on retirement, this may not be a problem for you if you already have a private pension.

To echo other posts, the jobs market is not good. You might get lucky given your experience in industry and pick up work straight away, but the general experience of new teachers is subbing/part time work for up to 5 years before getting anything relatively secure? Can you afford this financially?

Lastly, giving training at work, or grinds on a one to one basis are a very different ball game to teaching 20-30 teenagers, some of whom do not want to be there. Adults at a training session at work may or may not be interested in what you are doing but aren't going to create a disruption. Students who take grinds are coming to you for a specific reason. Engaging a group of teenagers is quite different. It's great when it works and you see students achieve, but there are bad days too when you are tearing your hair out because a student doesn't have work done, doesn't have books, doesn't want to cooperate or participate, and you have to deal with this along with teaching.

katydid

stabeek wrote: »

Hi

I was born in the sixties and have commercial, technical and science experience as well as MSc.

Been thinking things over recently and warming to the idea of going into teaching here in IRL mybe secondary Maths/Physics, mainly because I thinking I'd really enjoy it ( I've given training in work, and it's always been the best bit for me). I've also given grinds ... good fun.

It would be nice to hear some suggestions about what official paths I could have / have not at my disposal.

My first thought was a H. Dip because despite my age, I'd be a first time teacher. But any how, any suggestions welcome.

Cheers.

You'd have to do the Dip, which means two years full time study/teaching practice.

Not being funny, but depending on which end of the sixties you were born, is it really worth giving two years of your life to a career which you would only have a limited time at? Your chances of getting a full time job would be practically zero, so you would have to settle for the remaining years of your career on low pay? Have you good provision made for your pension? Because you won't get much chance to finalise it during that period.

Not trying to knock your ideas, just being realistic. If you were born in the last sixties, it might make sense. Not much if, like me, you are in your mid-fifties.

stabeek

thanks rainbowtrout, yes I take your point about the disciplinary aspect, I am aware of it, though I sense from your words it sometimes comes to dominate a teacher's activity .. yes I can imagine emotionally how difficult that could become.

Thanks katydid for highlighting those conditions.

katydid

stabeek wrote: »

though I sense from your words it sometimes comes to dominate a teacher's activity ...

Oh yes. At second level that is definitely the case. EVERYTHING centres around discipline, because without it nothing can be achieved. It is extremely stressful.

stabeek

katydid wrote: »

It is extremely stressful.

I'm sad to hear it's like that. It shouldn't be like that - or, at least - not to such an extent. Thx for comment.

Tom Dunne

Have you considered lecturing at an Institute of Technology?

No need for your fancy PME or anything, MSc and experience are what counts. Though admittedly, teaching experience would be beneficial.

katydid

stabeek wrote: »

I'm sad to hear it's like that. It shouldn't be like that - or, at least - not to such an extent. Thx for comment.

You're dealing with teenagers full of hormones. It goes with the territory. Remember your own school days...?

stabeek

Thanks Tom Dunne, actually also just had a friend suggest that to me too.

katydid, yes I do remember as an adolescent just trying to have a laugh, to not be bored, but I recognise some others had different attitudes. Cheers.

katydid

stabeek wrote: »

katydid, yes I do remember as an adolescent just trying to have a laugh, to not be bored, but I recognise some others had different attitudes. Cheers.

I'm not suggesting that all teenagers area badly behaved; it only takes one to disrupt the class. And you can spend the whole class trying to stay on top of that one.

stabeek

katydid: yes, can totally imagine that.

aunt aggie

There's always one class that drives me doolally each year, but they're in the minority in most schools. Don't worry about class management just yet. You should really focus on the job spec for teachers today, and the opportunities or lack of opportunities available to new teachers. Like other posters said first and foremost you have to ask yourself if you can afford to be a student for two years, followed by several more years of sporadic employment. Also the starting for incoming teachers was reduced in 2011.

stabeek

cheers aunt_aggie, thanks for the advice.

Jane98

Hi Stabeek,

My advice to you is don't bother.

When I was 37 I gave up a good well paid job in Financial Services to train to be a Maths teacher. Five years later I am still subbing. This year I am on a measly 9.5 hours and seriously struggling to survive. I can't get a second job cause my hours are so spread out despite being less than half full hours. My pay is approx. €400 gross per week but I only get paid when teaching.
I was told this year when I agreed to take on the maternity leave contract by the Principal and DP that they would try to give me more subbing hours as they arose but have got nothing yet but have watched retired teachers (on very good pensions) being constantly brought back to sub.
I am seriously on the verge of quitting the profession and totally regret my decision to leave financial services.

gaiscioch

Now, the above post was really depressing. The teacher recruitment system in this state really does treat people like dirt. The state could set up a central recruitment system, just as it has for Garda recruitment but it would rather perpetrate the current system of NQTs and people on part-time hours being exploited by schools to "prove" themselves for years by volunteering all sorts of unpaid labour to these schools.

OP, my advice is to stay well, well clear unless you're financially secure. Even then, and even if you get a permanent job, you'll have ineffably more raiméis bureaucracy hours, spirit-crushing pointless meetings and paperwork to take from your quality of life as a teacher. The holidays sound good from a distance, but if you're in Dublin you're going to need to get a second job during them to afford to live here.

PaulieBoy

I would agree with all the above from what I know/have heard over the years. I was born in the sixties and around five years ago jumped from being in construction to teaching in the adult education sector. Was far from an easy transition and is still far from perfect but on fulltime hours and turned down a pile more so fairly OK in that regard. If I was you that is where I would focus my attention not secondary sector.
1) As advised above check with teaching council to see if you have qualifications that they recognise for the purposes of teaching.
2) Do a further ed dip, DCU do a part-time one for free, there are many others.
3) Volunteer to teach maths grinds in your local resource centre, or not so local if you have to. Many opportunities out there to get a foot in the door if you look.
4) Be, as noted in above posts, prepared for some downtime !

Good luck😀

stabeek

thanks Jane98, that was a valuable contribution, and gaiscioch verification. Incredible that Irish maths ed. has come out several times in the press as a weakness with the burgeoning technology sector requiring better and more maths skills, and yet the system seems not built to deliver it.

The whole thread shows up a totally unmodern system, very surprising considering how other sectors in Ireland have progressed so much recently. It comes across like a big keep out notice:



PaulieBoy thanks, yes ... I'm looking up those options. Thanks for the contribs, depressing though they are, at least I'm not building up any illusion as to where things stand.

aunt aggie

stabeek wrote: »

Incredible that Irish maths ed. has come out several times in the press as a weakness with the burgeoning technology sector requiring better and more maths skills, and yet the system seems not built to deliver it.

The whole thread shows up a totally unmodern system, very surprising considering how other sectors in Ireland have progressed so much recently. It comes across like a big keep out notice

Not recently. After this years LC results, Engineers Ireland was commenting on the success of new Project Maths course and Universities seem very positive about the standard of problem solving among recent students. Also Ireland, unlike England, doesn't have a lack of qualified Maths and Science teachers. Every few years the media says we do, but we don't. As an unemployed teacher I have had to resist the urge to scream at people who think I can walk into a job because I teach Maths. It doesn't work that way.

I don't think you are calling the teaching and learning of Maths, or any subject, unmodern. From your post, I think you are referring to the training and recruitment of NQTs but I may be mistaken. This is the system we've got. It's disheartening when you're on temp contracts and moving about for work. I'm still in my twenties. I don't have a lot of expenses or commitments so I can make it work. It's not something I would want to walk into when I'm middle aged and used to a better paid job. I think that is partly why so many posters have seemed negative in their replies.

katydid

aunt aggie wrote: »

I think that is partly why so many posters have seemed negative in their replies.

We may have been negative, but given the OP's age and circumstances, it is realistic. There's no point in giving him false ideas.

Aunt Aggie has been more than realistic and is just as negative towards the OP's proposa Katydid, no need to stir it up.
Tone it down
MOD

Right Turn Clyde

stabeek wrote: »

carrer/career

I suppose the OP would make an incompetent teacher because he/she made a typo that can only be edited through a not so obvious 'advanced' function.

Get a life.

Uncivil and offtopic
Mod

stabeek

Yes, thanks for the latest contributions.

I was trying to conclude the thread, but I rambled a bit, so it didn't come out as such. Aunt_aggie has done it for me, being entirely correct as well as offering extra info. Thanks katy_did. Thanks everybody for the contributions. Cheers.