Raw 21/09/2015 *Spoilers including NOC results*

Stereomaniac

When I hear the word Diva, it conjures up images of Mariah Carey refusing to walk down stairs.

grames_bond

Stereomaniac wrote: »

When I hear the word Diva, it conjures up images of Mariah Carey refusing to walk down stairs.

and judging by the latest installment of table for three - it does the same for Ivory!

beakerjoe

grames_bond wrote: »

and judging by the latest installment of table for three - it does the same for Ivory!

Its all down to branding, WWE want to brand everything. Wrestlers are now Superstars and Divas and I dont see it changing anytime soon.

DM_7

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I don't think so. CM Punk was a chicken**** heel for the last few months of his title reign a couple of years ago, having actually regressed from the time period that he won the belt prior to turning back heel. When Seth Rollins loses the title finally, it will be exciting of course.

Punk had a poorly booked reign as well. All he got out or it was something to brag about as it went on so long. He didn't look credible or like the stand out performer as champion.

As face he feuded down the card in b level spots against Ziggler, Bryan (With AJ involved in a love triangle), Kane, Jericho, Big Johnny.

As heel he retained his title thanks to interference from Big Show, a dodgy Ref oh and the Shield.

He was booked stronger during matches in the few weeks before facing Taker than he was as champion.

The guy Rock beat for the title could have been anyone and it would be as memorable.

Stereomaniac

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

beakerjoe

Stereomaniac wrote: »

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

But its Seths way of winning that annoys me, he doesnt really play dirty, vicious or break the rules, he usually gets the win after losing for weeks before a big match and then through interference and not his own dastardly ways.

Id like to see him win via a cheat to win, like a brass knucks or a feet on teh ropes style victory. Makes him look smart and cunning, rather than weak when someone interferes on his behalf.

DM_7

Stereomaniac wrote: »

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

Brock was dominant as it suited his established persona.

Rollins shouldn't be dominant but he should still be credible. He relies on fluke wins and interference. When he has a title match no suspense exists as you are just waiting for a run in or fluke.

That is okay at the start but at this stage he should be growing, improving, using his physical and or mental attributes to win. The need for growth exists most in a a first time, young champion. A guy like Brock or Cena can be booked in a certain way from Day 1 right through a reign as they are established.

Rollins in his run could be replaced by anyone from Cesaro to Miz.

beakerjoe

DM_7 wrote: »

Brock was dominant as it suited his established persona.

Rollins shouldn't be dominant but he should still be credible. He relies on fluke wins and interference. When he has a title match no suspense exists as you are just waiting for a run in or fluke.

That is okay at the start but at this stage he should be growing, improving, using his physical and or mental attributes to win. The need for growth exists most in a a first time, young champion. A guy like Brock or Cena can be booked in a certain way from Day 1 right through a reign as they are established.

Rollins in his run could be replaced by anyone from Cesaro to Miz.

Competely agree with the bold there, its repetitive and the lack of progression is hurting Seth.

The White Feather

Seth is a cowardly heel. He is doing it perfectly.

The Paige "pipebomb" was a good idea but wrong person. I was full sure that when Flair didnt hold the ropes open for Becky that she would turn heel. I gave WWE too much credit when it seems now it was just accidental!!

That would have made better sense. She would say thats the last straw and Charlotte has been gifted everthing and then go off on the rest of the divas.When you see Paige with all the rest on Total Divas partying in Mexico, it doesnt make sense that she hates them all.Becky would have instant heel heat and its believable as she would be a jealous friend

It is silly that Charlotte and Becky didnt have a mic while Paige did this. No one stands there while being berated. 3 in ring but only one mic? Easy fixed by her saying shut up to them if they have mics in hand.

Kane storyline isnt bad but WTF is he doing in the title picture? Its a comedic angle that should be further down the card

Cesaro has been demoted from his demotion it seems. He should be getting mic time and in major segments. Remember him as the King of Swing and doing the old airplane spin? It seems like 10 years ago

Chain Smoker

The White Feather wrote: »

Seth is a cowardly heel. He is doing it perfectly.

He's doing fine, has came on leaps and bounds throughout his time in the WWE, but what he's being gave to work with is absolutely terrible. A cowardly heel that has any kind of value is one who either continually outsmarts the referee and/or the opponent enough to win, one who has unscrupulous ways in which they have earned their position. They shouldn't be constantly getting laid out and needing to depend on some contrived set of circumstances to retain the title.
Based on their track record, I imagine there's no way they're going to let him convincingly beat Kane either. I wouldn't be that surprised if they decide Kane has earned a final title reign and hope it'll pop ratings for the next night's raw tbh.

If Ric Flair (I'd say he surely counts as one of the best cowardly heel there's been?) had been booked the way Rollins has been, he'd've never drawn a dime and he certainly wouldn't have been able to give anyone the rub.

The White Feather wrote: »

The Paige "pipebomb" was a good idea but wrong person. I was full sure that when Flair didnt hold the ropes open for Becky that she would turn heel. I gave WWE too much credit when it seems now it was just accidental!!

That would have made better sense. She would say thats the last straw and Charlotte has been gifted everthing and then go off on the rest of the divas.When you see Paige with all the rest on Total Divas partying in Mexico, it doesnt make sense that she hates them all.Becky would have instant heel heat and its believable as she would be a jealous friend

Man, Becky Lynch's mic skills at the moment are nowhere near good enough to carry a heel turn. It would've just sunk the whole thing.