unfair "dismissal" from Voluntary Service

opalindigo

Wondering if anyone can give any advice. I know a young person who had been unfairly "dismissed " from a voluntary service . Looking at all the ins and outs , it seems like it was a total over reaction by a superior to an incident which was not entirely the young guys fault.There were a few words , nothing over the top or even swear words , between two volunteers . Both thought the matter was dealt with after superiors spoke to them , however it was dragged up again a month later .The young lad had a very good record of turning up for calls , training and events and was showing good potential . He was not taken on after probation period was over. He had given a lot of time and effort and it really seems now that it was personal . What happened to him is very unfair, he was disappointed at not being taken on, he never saw it coming . All his meetings with superiors had been positive. He was very hurt over things said in a report about him, these things were not true or exaggerated greatly .Where can volunteers go when they are treated unfairly . The "HQ" of this service have not been helpful and are clearly covering up . Because he was not taken on , he can't be termed as a "volunteer". What are his rights after 15 months with the service. This had had a huge effect on him.

glenjamin

This is very confusing. He must have done something substantial to warrant getting 'dismissed'.

yosser hughes

What was the incident? It's very hard to judge how unfair or otherwise this is, without knowing the facts.It doesn't appear that you witnessed this either.

RiderOnTheStorm

A few thoughts ....
A volunteer service should have a Code-of-Conduct or By-Laws or some sort of document that outlines their rules & regs. Included in this (in ideal world!) should be stuff about bullying, dismissing, warnings, harassment, reporting near miss, and all that sort of stuff. If this vol group has that doc, then your friend should examine it and see if there is anything there to help him. Usually someone is not dismissed on a first offense ... unless its very very serious. And in that case, you are not left wondering "What did I do?"

Volunteer services are not all the same. Some are very structured, with lots of experience, cover their H&S and have legal / official standing. Others are groups of locals who serve a specific function (or two) and gather together to train & just get the job done. I am not by any means, looking down on the 2nd group (as I am part of one myself!) just saying that there are different levels of "volunteer service", and what they should do, and what your friend can do, is very different depending on the type of service.

Another thought, and your friend might not like this, but if he kicks up, gets heard, and then is accepted back .... does he want to be a part of a group that once did not want him? It could make his 'job' a lot harder. However, if its a small number of members in the group taking a personal dislike to him, then it could be a case of them having sway with the other members / committee and thats not right. In this case, if he got a good result, returning to the unit would be grand, and maybe the minority could be exposed. But, if they are in the majority, ask your friend if he really wants to return the group. I hate to see the bully win, but you have to pick choices that you can live with. There are other volunteer groups....

Having said all that, I wish you and your friend the best of luck & hope this gets sorted to your satisfaction. With so few people out there who are willing to lend a hand, its great to see someone fighting to be part of a volunteer group.

opalindigo

Thanks for the replies. The thing is he didn't do anything substantial or that bad to warrant the manner in which he was treated. I have seen a lot worse happen between volunteers and no action taken.Don't want to go in to too much detail about it and I understand it is hard for anyone to judge with such scant details. That is exactly the problem though - everyone assumes he must have done something awful. He did not. Though I didn't witness the event, it was clear that both parties involved were happy that matter had been dealt with and it was no longer an issue.The report written about him was quite simply cruel and unnecessary, exaggerated and over the top and completely destroyed his character. This young person has had no issues with anyone else, no issues in work with anyone and is well spoken of when ever his name come up. This report is there for ever more and he did not deserve it. He would not now be able to mention his voluntary service for future jobs. Another senior officer had no issues with him before the damaging report and also it seems wouldn't go against their own and do the right thing and sort the issue out

glenjamin

Without any idea regarding the incident you're not going to find much help here I'm afraid. Unfortunately without the details I don't think anyone on here can say he was unfairly dismissed or his punishment was just.

opalindigo

Thanks again. Not really asking if others think he was unfairly dismissed or not, not possible without knowing full details but was looking for advice on what a volunteer can do when they have sought help from from their organization and are faced with a brick wall.

bilirubin

If he feels strongly about the dismissal fight the brick wall they should give him an opportunity to meet again. If they don't get a strong worded legal email or letter written. There is always someone in your circle of friends who knows someone who could help you write a good email to highlight your rights and entitlements.

If it happened to me that I felt a dismissal was unfair and would like to clear my good name I would think about bringing a friend, someone else who is not part of the organisation, or maybe someone within the organisation who I got on with to accompany me to an arranged meeting with a superior person in that organisation at local level (or go to their superiors if they are not helpful). Some people who feel wronged can feel vulnerable and afraid to pursue it and a friend who would ask good questions to defend me would be very beneficial. As far as I know Under the freedom of information i think I would be entitled to see what was written about him and maybe it might be possible to get a copy of the compliant. I would request a copy of the organisations Code of Conduct and procedure policy, they may have it on their website. Ideally Take time to digest it and get friendly advice before the meeting. If they don't have one then they are winging it, so I would fight it with a little legal help. I'm guessing they do have policies and procedures cause you mentioned "HQ" which indicates it is a national organisation and not a standalone voluntary organisation based in 1 town/city. If the claims are correct and the organisation followed proper procedures then I would hope my friend would take me aside and tell me to accept the findings. Ideally it would be beneficial to have an independent moderator involved in disputes in a case like this where the person dismissed doesn't accept the findings and thinks the result findings is flawed.
Then following on from what RiderOnTheStorm said, if I cleared my good name I would probably walk away from that organistion/local setup because I wouldnt feel comfortable been around the people who i felt over reacted & went too far. But at least I will feel better my name is cleared and it might build up my confidence to volunteer again with another organisation.

Another idea is to go to the Legal forum on boards.ie and see if a solicitor or someone with legal experience would give you friendly advice in a private message. You might find someone who might help you fight your young friends case for free to clear his name.

arthur daly

What were the reasons given fir not taking then on after the probation period?were they specifically related to the incident?

Maybe the chap hadn't progressed to a standard required to fulfill the role.
Emergency services take it very serious on peoples capability,after all they are there to help in situations which requires a vast skill net.
It happens all the time people have the best intentions but through no fault of their own don't meet operational requirements.
Costs have a part to play to as it costs thousands to train and maintain,ppe alone can easy be 2k

opalindigo

All progress meetings were positive - and yes, well able to do any tasks required , and this was verified by others and the incident was mentioned as a reason

FOIreland

Unfortunately he probably cannot access information under the Freedom of Information Act as this organization is not a public body.

However he can certainly make a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act, and ask for any and all records concerning him. This will include any reports but also any internal correspondence. (They may try and exclude information on the basis of confidentiality, but the threshold here is very high) If he believes any information disclosed is inaccurate, he can ask for this to be corrected.

If there has been any unfairness in how they have dealt with him, this may well be revealed by the records - I have known organisations to drop legal defences like a hot potato when they see what their staff have said in emails. Even if this does not provide a basis for legal action, it is well to make clear that he knows his rights.

This is particularly important when requesting a reference - the HR department is not likely to risk legal action by writing anything that could be deemed unfair. If they have any sense, they will write something very bland. Remember, he can access any references under the Data Protection Act as well.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Having been through a similar situation before I can tell you the water is muddy with regards to voluntary work.

While yes, he can effectively bring an "unfair / constructive" dismissal case all that will happen in effect is he will be reinstated with no financial penalties imposed on the organisation because he didn't lose any earnings, so can be an expensive waste of time.

He is better off in learning that lesson at a young age that alot of those voluntary orgs are more political than the Dail himself, save themselves the aggro and move on

bilirubin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Having been through a similar situation before I can tell you the water is muddy with regards to voluntary work.

While yes, he can effectively bring an "unfair / constructive" dismissal case all that will happen in effect is he will be reinstated with no financial penalties imposed on the organisation because he didn't lose any earnings, so can be an expensive waste of time.

hmmm, I dunno Ctrl Alt Delete, i think I would disagree, if it happened to me and I felt i got unfair treatment and my good name was tarnished I would want the records amended. Getting reinstated or getting financial penalties imposed wouldn't be what I would want. But if you won a legal thing you could demand or ask for changes so this doesn't happen again. Like you said, the water can get muddied, so wanting to go back to that organisation may not be worth it BUT the outcome is you would have your good name cleared PLUS you may stop something like this happening to someone else. That organisation may have to update/create a new policy document that they have to adhere to going forward after a legal challenge and possibly remove a bad egg who has caused the hassle in the first place!!!

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

He is better off in learning that lesson at a young age that alot of those voluntary orgs are more political than the Dail himself, save themselves the aggro and move on

OR that person could look back when they are older and say they were glad they stood up for themselves and others.

Ctrl Alt Delete

bilirubin wrote: »

hmmm, I dunno Ctrl Alt Delete, i think I would disagree, if it happened to me and I felt i got unfair treatment and my good name was tarnished I would want the records amended. Getting reinstated or getting financial penalties imposed wouldn't be what I would want. But if you won a legal thing you could demand or ask for changes so this doesn't happen again. Like you said, the water can get muddied, so wanting to go back to that organisation may not be worth it BUT the outcome is you would have your good name cleared PLUS you may stop something like this happening to someone else. That organisation may have to update/create a new policy document that they have to adhere to going forward after a legal challenge and possibly remove a bad egg who has caused the hassle in the first place!!!


OR that person could look back when they are older and say they were glad they stood up for themselves and others.

A hell of alot of additional aggrevation to clear your good name over a war of words in the first place when the ultimate action will still be the same that he will walk away. Hence why he should really take it as a life lesson.

You will not effect change in the organisation, I'm aware of a case ongoing with a very large national youth registered organisation that has plenty of its legal duty policies and procedures that we're simply ignored to suit personal agendas, and while they will shortly be paying up ALOT to the affected party it is different as it was a failure of duty of care and not disciplinary.

bilirubin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

A hell of alot of additional aggrevation to clear your good name over a war of words in the first place when the ultimate action will still be the same that he will walk away. Hence why he should really take it as a life lesson.

At the end of the day it is an individual judgement call. I know what I would do.
Sometimes organisations are powerless to take actions against individuals and need a formal complaint to take the action required to discipline, correct or remove someone in authority who may have been unfair to an individual.

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

You will not effect change in the organisation

I disagree with your wording "will not effect change", it's quite possible that person may effect change. Maybe in your case you felt it didn't but that may not be the outcome all the time.