Web Summit quits Dublin

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

You're factoring in the cost of the ticket here, which is money that won't go to the Portuguese government as Web Summit is an Irish company. The revenue from flights wont go to the Portuguese government either. The only revenue they'll make from it is from hotels, public transport and food/drink.

Now Paddy wanted the Irish government to cover the costs of transport in full, and then force hotels to cut their prices. Given these facts, I can't at all see how it could bring in 108m to Ireland, and I can't see it bringing it in for Lisbon either.

How so? If there is one thing our govt is good at it is dipping our pockets at every single turn. Take the example of a 'regular' delegate at a conference like this.

Ticket €1000 -23% VAT means €230 for the Govt
4 Nights in a hotel, lets say €150pn, €600 total at 9% Vat another €50 there

Thats just the VAT on the two headline items per delegate, that Revenue then gets taxed a second time at it takes a lot of labour to host these events and even low paid labour in this country is taxed at around 30% by the time employees pay all income taxes and employers pay PRSI.

On top of all that he was selling exhibition space, sometimes charging up to €100k for a stand for a few days. Again this revenue is all subject to taxation. When all is said and done his profits are subject to more taxation in the form of corporation tax.

Also Govts do take money from international flights, taxes and landing charges make up the bulk of the price of the ticket.

flouncer wrote: »

Forgetting what paddy was asking for. I have attended. Its really waffle. Ended up talking to a dude from Waterford county council wondering wtf. In terms of filling hotel rooms, that is correct. In terms of filling us with wiseness (is there such a word) give me a rest. Facebook bought a messaging system for (was it) 29 billion. These guys earn money and then prove how hopeless they are. And paddy gives them a stage. Class act

Oh I know it was all waffle, I went the very first year in 2010 but only cause I got a freebie. But irrespective of what it was and acknowledging that Paddy Cosgrave can be full of crap sometimes I still think our govt here has missed a trick and the Lisbon govt has taken advantage.

What I am saying is that Dublin had a chance (now missed) to help the Web Summit grow even bigger than the huge numbers that were already coming. If it could have been shown that Dublin was capable of holding conferences in the 50,000 range then the city could go and compete for conferences of that size which happen in Europe. Lisbon clearly has this strategy whereas we just missed the opportunity to cultivate it right on our own doorstep. Las Vegas and San Fran in the US are both cities that regulary host conferences of this size. It didn't just happen by accident, it happened because it makes economic sense to those cities to accomodate huge numbers of conference delegates. They plan their strategies around them, aiming for tourists in the summer and conferences in the winter.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that the Govt drop everything for this. But what I am saying is that they missed a trick. They could have used the WS to showcase the city and attract even bigger conferences in the years to come. There is no doubt they bring money into the economy in winter when hotels are struggling to survive. The Govt could have ran with this and tried to make an industry out of it but instead they chose to do nothing at all. Then again should we expect much more from a bunch of former teachers?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

How so? If there is one thing our govt is good at it is dipping our pockets at every single turn. Take the example of a 'regular' delegate at a conference like this.

Even if every single attendee managed to somehow pay €1,500 in taxes over the 3 days it would bring in €45m for the government. Now, given that you say the average spend is €1,500 per head, how on earth did anyone come to the conclusion that this even is worth €108m to the government?

smash

Just wanted to add what Forbes thinks of Web Summit.

Founder Paddy Cosgrave aims to bring together dynamic new start-ups, investors, and the biggest industry players to explore ways of working together on a diverse range of projects.

Maybe it was the initial aim, but by all reports this seems to have failed and there's a view that it's just a runner up ted talks now.

Dublin represents a strategic foothold for American companies looking to find ways of breaking into European markets, but the Dublin Tech scene is also significant in its own right, and has been since the days of the dotcom boom.

And Paddy Cosgrove has tried to take this globally accepted image away from the country by slating us. All because he wouldn't pay for a good wifi option. Prick!

The biggest challenge for the conference in 2015 is likely to be maintaining its intimacy and giving the stage to early stage companies whilst continuing to scale into an event of global significance. The buzz around this event is unique and maintaining it will be crucial.

Has it lost it's intimacy? Yes.
Does he give the stage to early stage companies? No.
Has Paddy taken 'the buzz' away from the event? I feel he has.

seamus

kidneyfan wrote: »

What does he mean by wifi is free and reliable in other cities? Dublin doesn't have free citywide wifi. Was his expectation that the RDS would upgrade its wifi for his conference?

What he said was that the RDS were "blocking a simple solution", which usually means that the venue was refusing to pay to upgrade their faciilities. At a guess, this meant getting eircom in to install fibre lines and having a fibre network covering the entire RDS, interconnecting enterprise-grade access points. I don't really have any experience with setting up big WiFi networks, so I could be way off.

In any case, likely Paddy wanted the RDS to spend half a million so that he wouldn't have to spend anything, and then accused them of "blocking" the solution.
The RDS doesn't really host many events that require world-class WiFi access, so wouldn't see much financial sense in installing a major network setup for one conference a year.

smash

seamus wrote: »

In any case, likely Paddy wanted the RDS to spend half a million so that he wouldn't have to spend anything, and then accused them of "blocking" the solution.

I have a feeling the conversation went:

Paddy: I want this solution
RDS: That will cost you €x
Paddy: No way, I'm not paying that, you're not touching my profits!

*Conference implodes*

2015 conference comes around:

Paddy: I want this solution, you fcuked me over last time
RDS: Last time you wouldn't pay for it. Will you pay for it now?
Paddy: No.... and I'm telling my mammy Enda on you!

ressem

Muahahaha wrote: »

What I am saying is that Dublin had a chance (now missed) to help the Web Summit grow even bigger than the huge numbers that were already coming. If it could have been shown that Dublin was capable of holding conferences in the 50,000 range then the city could go and compete for conferences of that size which happen in Europe. Lisbon clearly has this strategy whereas we just missed the opportunity to cultivate it right on our own doorstep. Las Vegas and San Fran in the US are both cities that regulary host conferences of this size. It didn't just happen by accident, it happened because it makes economic sense to those cities to accomodate huge numbers of conference delegates. They plan their strategies around them, aiming for tourists in the summer and conferences in the winter.

Paddy's letters to the Taoiseach's office mentions increasing the number of
schoolkid tickets to 22,000, up from 11,000.
How is this an advantage to the exhibitors already struggling for booth space?

Paddy Cosgrave wrote:

We could expand our schools and student summits to cater to twice the 11,000 that attended free on two of the evenings of Web Summit 2014.

Is it trying to be CES or should it be business & industry focused? I.e. where's the gain from the increased numbers.

Anyways' he's meant to be paying the RDS the high cost for the wifi for the 2015 show, so he'll find out whether it would have worked.

seamus wrote:

What he said was that the RDS were "blocking a simple solution", which usually means that the venue was refusing to pay to upgrade their faciilities. At a guess, this meant getting eircom in to install fibre lines and having a fibre network covering the entire RDS, interconnecting enterprise-grade access points.

The simple solution seems to have been getting BT to install and manage a temporary wifi system in exchange for BT advertising their business network services. They probably would have done a decent job of it.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Even if every single attendee managed to somehow pay €1,500 in taxes over the 3 days it would bring in €45m for the government. Now, given that you say the average spend is €1,500 per head, how on earth did anyone come to the conclusion that this even is worth €108m to the government?

The person who came to that conclusion was Enda Kenny, it was his figures.

And as I said every euro that comes into the country goes through several stages of taxation whilst washing around the economy. Everything is subject to VAT- the conference ticket, hotels, taxis, buses, restaurants. After the VAT comes employment taxes- USC< PRSI, Income taxes, etc. After that the profits for the organisers are taxed, then when he wants to spend his profits then its taxed yet again.

So maybe that is how Enda arrived at the €108m figure, they are counting all the revenue and taxation that wouldn't have happened if the conference didn't take place.

In any case I think my point is being lost. This row should never have been about one single 30,000 delegate conference. There is a whole industry to be exploited here and Ireland, which is supposed to be an open economy should surely be actively marketing itself as a conference destination.

Here's some figures from Vegas to illustrate
http://www.lvcva.com/article/las-vegas-welcomes-nearly-40-million/937/

The meetings and convention industry reached a five-year high with 5.1 million delegates attending a convention, trade show or meeting in 2013, reflecting a 3.3 percent increase over last year's total of 4.9 million. This is the highest convention attendance since 2008.

• Las Vegas hosted 22,027 meetings, trade shows or conventions in 2013, up 1.9 percent from the 2012 total of 21,615. The 2013 total is also the highest number of meetings and conventions held in Las Vegas since 2008.

• Average citywide occupancy held steady at 84.3 percent for 2013. Las Vegas' citywide occupancy is 22 percentage points higher than the national average of 62.3 percent. With industry-leading occupancy of 84.3 percent for its 150,593 rooms, Las Vegas fills more rooms per night on average than any destination in North America.

Vegas is a city in a desert in a continent of 300m people. Dublin is a city on an island in a continent of 450m people. I'm not saying that Dublin could ever achieve 5 million conference delegates a year like Vegas, no way. But why can we not even aim for 5% of that figure, 250,000 delegates per year? If we had of kept the Web Summit in Dublin at least Failte Ireland could point to other conference holders to show them we're capable of holding those numbers. But instead our govt let the opportunity slip through their fingers.

If 30,000 delegates is worth €108m then 250,000 would be worth just short of €900m per year, every year. But of course this country is run by former school teachers who have no vision whatsoever. So instead Lisbons gain is Dublin's loss.

5rtytry56

ressem wrote: »

Paddy's letters to the Taoiseach's office mentions increasing the number of
schoolkid tickets to 22,000, up from 11,000.
How is this an advantage to the exhibitors already struggling for booth space?


Is it trying to be CES or should it be business & industry focused? I.e. where's the gain from the increased numbers.

No advantage to exhibitors struggling for boothspace.

Most schoolkids won't be as critical as your Joe Public man in the street.

Paddy surmises back in the schoolyard, that schoolkids who attended will simply boast to other schoolchildren that they were at the Web Summit, and you were'nt. And look, I got a little free bag of cropola to prove it. Now.

Dyr

Muahahaha wrote: »

The person who came to that conclusion was Enda Kenny, it was his figures.

Ah This guy?

Muahahaha wrote: »

A country is run by former school teachers who have no vision whatsoever. .

I'd trust that figure alright, wasn't like Inda the former school teacher and Failte Ireland were over egging that particular pudding

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case I think my point is being lost. This row should never have been about one single 30,000 delegate conference. There is a whole industry to be exploited here and Ireland, which is supposed to be an open economy should surely be actively marketing itself as a conference destination.

Here's some figures from Vegas to illustrate
http://www.lvcva.com/article/las-vegas-welcomes-nearly-40-million/937/

Vegas is a city in a desert in a continent of 300m people. Dublin is a city on an island in a continent of 450m people. I'm not saying that Dublin could ever achieve 5 million conference delegates a year like Vegas, no way. But why can we not even aim for 5% of that figure, 250,000 delegates per year? If we had of kept the Web Summit in Dublin at least Failte Ireland could point to other conference holders to show them we're capable of holding those numbers. But instead our govt let the opportunity slip through their fingers.

If 30,000 delegates is worth €108m then 250,000 would be worth just short of €900m per year, every year. But of course this country is run by former school teachers who have no vision whatsoever. So instead Lisbons gain is Dublin's loss.

Dublin easily hosts over 250,000 conference attendees a year anyway. Instead of thinking that Paddy's conference is the be all and end all of the tech world, because it's not, you should consider how he threw his toys out of the pram while trying to get our government to engage in borderline criminality and tried to tarnish the country's name on his way.

brooke 2

I see his Las Vegas summit is called Collision. Am I the only one who might have initially read that as Collison???
Mentioned it, laughing at my mistake, to a family member who is well acquainted with Paddy Cosgrave's tactics, only to be told that he also initially read it as Collison!! Guess we both need glasses!!

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Dublin easily hosts over 250,000 conference attendees a year anyway. Instead of thinking that Paddy's conference is the be all and end all of the tech world, because it's not, you should consider how he threw his toys out of the pram while trying to get our government to engage in borderline criminality and tried to tarnish the country's name on his way.

So 250,000 is good enough and we shouldn't try to improve on that? That sounds like the same attitude that the teachers who run this country have.

And I'm not sure where I said his conference is the be all and end all of anything. As I said its full of waffle. I'm just making the point that our govt missed a trick.

Tell me why it is that our government cant even show a bit of ambition and grow this industry? The WS was a template for holding large conference in the 30,000-50,000 range. Why didn't they use that to attract even more conferences of that size? Given the conferences on our shores are worth some €1bn why are we not trying to double that to €2bn?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Tell me why it is that our government can even show a bit of ambition and grow this industry? The WS was a template for holding large conference in the 30,000-50,000 range. Why didn't they use that to attract even more conferences of that size?

Because paddy didn't give them a chance. They clearly stated that they would use this year's conference as a template because of the scale and he told them to fcuk off and went on a rampage across the media to tell the whole world that Dublin can't handle it. When in fact, it can.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Because paddy didn't give them a chance. They clearly stated that they would use this year's conference as a template because of the scale and he told them to fcuk off and went on a rampage across the media to tell the whole world that Dublin can't handle it. When in fact, it can.

So the entire thing is Paddys fault and zero blame lies with the senior civil servants who take 2 weeks to reply to important emails? Or zero blame on the politicians who have no vision and no ambition? Meanwhile the Lisbon politicians are taking plaudits for securing the WS for the next 3 years, bringing more than 100,000 people to their city. As I said Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, what city wouldn't want that amount of business?

Smash I kinda get the impression you have some sort of vendetta against Paddy Cosgrave. I'm not here to defend him I'm here to point out how our bunch of primary school teachers have missed a trick here. Whether it was Paddy Cosgrave they were dealing with or anyone else the whole debacle has shown our govt to be all spin and no action.

Carlos Orange

Muahahaha wrote: »

Meanwhile the Lisbon politicians are taking plaudits for securing the WS for the next 3 years, bringing more than 100,000 people to their city. As I said Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, what city wouldn't want that amount of business?

Unless there are some audited figures for how many people come to Dublin for the Web Summit I think it is a bit optimistic to take whatever PR the company were putting out before this years event , multiply it by 3 and add some more on top.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

So the entire thing is Paddys fault and zero blame lies with the senior civil servants who take 2 weeks to reply to important emails? Or zero blame on the politicians who have no vision and no ambition? Meanwhile the Lisbon politicians are taking plaudits for securing the WS for the next 3 years, bringing more than 100,000 people to their city. As I said Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, what city wouldn't want that amount of business?

Smash I kinda get the impression you have some sort of vendetta against Paddy Cosgrave. I'm not here to defend him I'm here to point out how our bunch of primary school teachers have missed a trick here. Whether it was Paddy Cosgrave they were dealing with or anyone else the whole debacle has shown our govt to be all spin and no action.

I don't have a vendetta against the guy, but he's spun a big web of lies and blame passing. He could be a very successful and well liked individual if he tried, but he's so bloody obnoxious and self entitled and there's so many people who've fallen for his bullshít. It is not the government's responsibility to organise his conference for him. They have supported it over the years and would continue to do so but he's thrown it all in their face while telling everyone how shít Ireland is. Do you think that's fair?

Muahahaha

psinno wrote: »

Unless there are some audited figures for how many people come to Dublin for the Web Summit I think it is a bit optimistic to take whatever PR the company were putting out before this years event , multiply it by 3 and add some more on top.

Well his growth trajectory shows it growing to 50,000 a year so that 100,000 is a conservative estimate. Considering it was only a few thousand in 2010 the growth of the WS has been meteoric. Either way I don't think hoteliers and restaurants were complaining with the 30,000 figure- they were all wedged full with plenty of employment being created in the hospitality industry during what is typically one of the quietest months of the entire year.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well his growth trajectory shows it growing to 50,000 a year so that 100,000 is a conservative estimate. Considering it was only a few thousand in 2010 the growth of the WS has been meteoric. Either way I don't think hoteliers and restaurants were complaining with the 30,000 figure- they were all wedged full with plenty of employment being created in the hospitality industry during what is typically one of the quietest months of the entire year.

Plenty of employment created for 3 days?

kidneyfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

So the entire thing is Paddys fault and zero blame lies with the senior civil servants who take 2 weeks to reply to important emails?

That's a good takeaway.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

I don't have a vendetta against the guy, but he's spun a big web of lies and blame passing. He could be a very successful and well liked individual if he tried, but he's so bloody obnoxious and self entitled and there's so many people who've fallen for his bullshít. It is not the government's responsibility to organise his conference for him. They have supported it over the years and would continue to do so but he's thrown it all in their face while telling everyone how shít Ireland is. Do you think that's fair?

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

Also you're coming out with govt spin now which is laughable. They 'supported' it was their spin last week when they said they spent some money at it through the IDA and EI. For that they got exhibition space and were billed accordingly. But the spin they put out was that they 'supported' it. If you're going to swallow every bit of spin Enda Kenny and Co feed you then there really is no hope.

He could be a very successful and well liked individual if he tried

I think he already is successful, AFAIK his company is valued at €60m which is some going for someone who is yet to hit his 30th birthday. Also I'm sure he is well liked by his friends. Again your vendetta against him is shining through here because you're just making stuff up to slag him off. You're not doing it rationally, you're doing it because you hate the guy. That much is obvious from your posts.

But as I said I'm not interested in Paddy Cosgrave. I'm more interested in how our shambles of a govt spends all its time on photo opportunities in public whilst doing feck all in private to attract conferences of this size and grow the industry.

kidneyfan

smash wrote: »

He could be a very successful and well liked individual if he tried

He's pretty successful.

Carlos Orange

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well his growth trajectory shows it growing to 50,000 a year so that 100,000 is a conservative estimate. Considering it was only a few thousand in 2010 the growth of the WS has been meteoric. Either way I don't think hoteliers and restaurants were complaining with the 30,000 figure- they were all wedged full with plenty of employment being created in the hospitality industry during what is typically one of the quietest months of the entire year.

The figure I sawtouted for last year was 22K but I have never seen a break down as to what proportion paid for tickets and what proportion were international/Dublin/Irish. As for assuming straight line growth and how much employment is created by a conference that lasts for a couple of days....

Dyr

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

I'm pretty sure its a matter of record that he lied, and had to apologize when he was pulled up on it.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Plenty of employment created for 3 days?

Again you seem to have the same level of ambition as our primary school leaders, which is to say sweet feck all.

I've already detailed how over 5 million people a year visit Vegas for conferences. This is my entire point, this industry is worth billions and our govt had a chance to use the WS as a flagship to grow the industry. They chose not to because a school teachers and civil servants have never ran a business and don't understand ambition and vision the same way an entrepreneur does.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

Well is a liar? See here and decide for yourself: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/paddy-cosgrave-issues-app-ology-1.2347565

Muahahaha wrote: »

Also you're coming out with govt spin now which is laughable. They 'supported' it was their spin last week when they said they spent some money at it through the IDA and EI. For that they got exhibition space and were billed accordingly. But the spin they put out was that they 'supported' it. If you're going to swallow every bit of spin Enda Kenny and Co feed you then there really is no hope.

I don't swallow all their spin. But you do seem to swallow all of Paddy's.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think he already is successful, AFAIK his company is valued at €60m which is some going for someone who is yet to hit his 30th birthday. Also I'm sure he is well liked by his friends. Again your vendetta against him is shining through here because you're just making stuff up to slag him off. You're not doing it rationally, you're doing it because you hate the guy.

I don't hate him, I have no reason to hate him. I just dislike him and think he's sneaky and obnoxious.

I know he's successful but I said he's not a liked person, and he's not. Have you read any forums or reports from start ups who've attended and feel completely ripped off? From the volunteers who say he's a horrible person to work for?

What exactly am I making up?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

To be fair I've been to some of these conferences/junkets. Vegas will always be a better draw than Dublin for that sort of thing.

Muahahaha

Bambi wrote: »

I'm pretty sure its a matter of record that he lied, and had to apologize when he was pulled up on it.

Lie is a very strong word and it isn't one I'd use lightly. People can be misinformed and then give our the wrong information without meaning to. Thats a whole different matter to outright lying. It is almost impossible to prove is someone sets out to delibritely lie and mislead people which is why I don't think its a good idea to ever call anyone a liar in public like Smash just did.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Lie is a very strong word and it isn't one I'd use lightly. People can be misinformed and then give our the wrong information without meaning to. Thats a whole different matter to outright lying. It is almost impossible to prove is someone sets out to delibritely lie and mislead people which is why I don't think its a good idea to ever call anyone a liar in public like Smash just did.

Paddy Cosgrave wrote:

“I claimed credit for the work of Paul, Doc, their team and Andy Baio & Andy McMillan and their team. For this, I apologise.”

source: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/paddy-cosgrave-issues-app-ology-1.2347565

seamus

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Vegas will always be a better draw than Dublin for that sort of thing.

I'm laughing at the naivety of people thinking that Vegas conferences are popular because of the facilities and the WiFi.

Well they are popular because of the facilities, but they're not the kind of facilities that Dublin can, eh, facilitate.

Maybe if Michael Lowry had his way we could have Vegas-style "conferences" in Tipperary.

Dyr

Muahahaha wrote: »

Lie is a very strong word and it isn't one I'd use lightly. People can be misinformed and then give our the wrong information without meaning to. Thats a whole different matter to outright lying. It is almost impossible to prove is someone sets out to delibritely lie and mislead people which is why I don't think its a good idea to ever call anyone a liar in public like Smash just did.

A guy who runs another event said cosgrave was lying about developing their app. He remains unsued and was given an apology

percy212

He has been given all he is going to get in Ireland. Time to move on to the next "ambitious" city.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Well is a liar? See here and decide for yourself: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/paddy-cosgrave-issues-app-ology-1.2347565

I don't even need to follow that link to know that the Irish Times didn't call him a liar

I don't swallow all their spin. But you do seem to swallow all of Paddy's.

Then why are you repeating govt spin? You said they 'supported' it, which is exactly what Fine Gael said too

I don't hate him, I have no reason to hate him. I just dislike him and think he's sneaky and obnoxious.

I know he's successful but I said he's not a liked person, and he's not. Have you read any forums or reports from start ups who've attended and feel completely ripped off? From the volunteers who say he's a horrible person to work for?

What exactly am I making up?

Not liked by you maybe? Do you speak for everyone he has ever met? I thought not :rolleyes: You said he could be successful a few minutes ago and now I said the guy is worth €60m you change your mind and say 'I know he is successful'. I don't think you know your arse from your elbow at this stage such is the amount of backtracking going on here.

Its obvious from your posts and how you called him a liar that you've had dealings with him in the past and you'd don't like him. Fair enough.

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

Carlos Orange

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've already detailed how over 5 million people a year visit Vegas for conferences. This is my entire point, this industry is worth billions and our govt had a chance to use the WS as a flagship to grow the industry. They chose not to because a school teachers and civil servants have never ran a business and don't understand ambition and vision the same way an entrepreneur does.

The average convention in Vegas is attended by about 200 people. They probably pay for their own wifi.

brooke 2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

Also you're coming out with govt spin now which is laughable. They 'supported' it was their spin last week when they said they spent some money at it through the IDA and EI. For that they got exhibition space and were billed accordingly. But the spin they put out was that they 'supported' it. If you're going to swallow every bit of spin Enda Kenny and Co feed you then there really is no hope.




I think he already is successful, AFAIK his company is valued at €60m which is some going for someone who is yet to hit his 30th birthday. Also I'm sure he is well liked by his friends. Again your vendetta against him is shining through here because you're just making stuff up to slag him off. You're not doing it rationally, you're doing it because you hate the guy.

If his company is worth €60m how come he was making so many 'asks' off the taxpayer? I know you're obviously a fan of his, but he comes across as a cheapskate. There are many people elsewhere in the media reporting on their sad experiences with PC. As a disinterested onlooker, I have frankly been appalled at his exploitative methods. He is well able able to charge entry fees but does not seem willing to spend much of it as he wants everything for free. No wonder he is worth €60m!! We have had enough of that mindset during the Celtic Tiger when we had developers cutting corners in various projects, eg, Longboat Quay, in order to pocket huge profits. Lisbon is welcome to him.

kidneyfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.

Muahahaha

seamus wrote: »

I'm laughing at the naivety of people thinking that Vegas conferences are popular because of the facilities and the WiFi.

Well they are popular because of the facilities, but they're not the kind of facilities that Dublin can, eh, facilitate.

Maybe if Michael Lowry had his way we could have Vegas-style "conferences" in Tipperary.

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't even need to follow that link to know that the Irish Times didn't call him a liar

"He said he had built the ticketing app – Tito – used by the tech conference and went on to say the app is used by dozens of conferences around the world, like XOXO and Brooklyn Beta. All very good, except Cosgrave didn’t build that app."

Muahahaha wrote: »

Then why are you repeating govt spin? You said they 'supported' it, which is exactly what Fine Gael said too

Would you rather I used a thesaurus before I type just in case it's a word that someone else has used?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not liked by you maybe? Do you speak for everyone he has ever met? I thought not :rolleyes:

No, but in the broad sense he's not liked. As many people have stated in this thread already.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You said he could be successful a few minutes ago and now I said the guy is worth €60m you change your mind and say 'I know he is successful'.

I didn't change my mind. It wasn't an exclusive phrase. I said he could be successful and liked.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't think you know your arse from your elbow at this stage such is the amount of backtracking going on here.

I haven't backtracked once.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its obvious from your posts and how you called him a liar that you've had dealings with him in the past and you'd don't like him. Fair enough.

I've never had any dealing with him.

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

The government stated that they would use this year's conference as a template for future his conferences regarding traffic management. It's not in their remit to go and force the RDS or hotels to pander to Paddy's needs, now is it...

I'd like to know exactly what you expected the government to do.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

Vegas has the infrastructure which can be exploited for these conferences, and it's all privately owned, and privately organised. Do you want our government to build hotels and conference halls and run events management agencies?

kidneyfan

In fairness Web Summit were never given a price for what they wanted.
Clearly they would have had a number of bodies to liaise with for example Dublin Bus, Gardai, Dublin City Council and much of what they wanted would have been available for a price.

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Lets not forget that these 'requests' weren't even outlined in the initial communications, which happened to take place as the Dail was returning from it's summer recess which means that the government were pretty busy...

Muahahaha

brooke 2 wrote: »

If his company is worth €60m how come he was making so many 'asks' off the taxpayer? I know you're obviously a fan of his, but he comes across as a cheapskate. There are many people elsewhere in the media reporting on their sad experiences with PC. As a disinterested onlooker, I have frankly been appalled at his exploitative methods. He is well able able to charge entry fees but does not seem willing to spend much of it as he wants everything for free. No wonder he is worth €60m!! We have had enough of that mindset during the Celtic Tiger when we had developers cutting corners in various projects, eg, Longboat Quay, in order to pocket huge profits. Lisbon is welcome to him.

I've got news for you- all big companies ask govts for free things. Do you think Apple are paying the govt full market value for the land for their new data centre in Galway? No way they are, the IDA have been doling out free/cheap land to big companies since the 1970's. Intel, Apple, Microsoft etc have all gained.

I don't for one minute think that the govt should have funded his Wifi. But at the same time I'm not petty enough to criticise him (or anyone else) for asking for it. Asking for something doesn't mean you're going to get it. And as anyone in business knows if you don't ask then it won't be offered. Its a negotiation, that all. I don't know why so many people get their knickers in a twist over it, big companies ask the govt for things all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually going to get them.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't for one minute think that the govt should have funded his Wifi. But at the same time I'm not petty enough to criticise him (or anyone else) for asking for it. Asking for something doesn't mean you're going to get it. And as anyone in business knows if you don't ask then it won't be offered. Its a negotiation, that all. I don't know why so many people get their knickers in a twist over it, big companies ask the govt for things all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually going to get them.

Web Summit aren't a big company. And if you didn't want them to pay, then what exactly did you want? He asked, they didn't even get a chance to said no, he threw a tantrum...

seamus

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure.

I'm not sure if you've been to Vegas, but the entire thing is structured as one big hotel. The entire town is designed as a destination. Without tourism, it has nothing. And conferences are a huge part of tourism because they bring in people charging everything to company expense accounts.

I see your sentiment, but to claim that "Vegas can do it, why can't Dublin" is like someone in Luxembourg asking why they can't be more of sailing destination. "Ireland can do it, why can't we".

Muahahaha

kidneyfan wrote: »

He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.

This seems to be half the problem. The Dublin City Manager has few powers. He was assigned a liaison officer who didn't want to do his job

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year

The VIP escorts was a minor thing, iirc it was in reference to less than 10 VIPs. We already do tons of these for whatever two-bit diplomat is up in the Park for the day. The entire canals in D4 and D6 were shut down this summer for 3 days running to transport some dude from the US Military that no-one had even heard of. The Irish taxpayer gets no tangible benefit from this, the US Military don't create jobs here and they aren't investors either.

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year
.

And do you imagine that the Office of the Taoiseach have anything whatseover to do with any of these?

Nobody's questioning their 'do-ability', it's the 'who-do-ability' that's important. PC appears to have wanted the Government to do his work for him. He wanted the Government to contribute time/effort/expertise etc towards his private company's profits.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Web Summit aren't a big company.

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too. And our govt has shown them the door because they couldn't be arsed to answer a few emails and sit down with them to thrash things out. Our govt didn't even have one face to face meeting with WS to see if a resolution could be found. Not one meeting.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

The DoT would have issues with Paddy Cosgrave paying private bus companies to operate as shuttle buses all over the city?

Really?

Dyr

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

lol

brooke 2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

Seems to me they were trying to wash their hands of him. This was not their first year dealing with him, after all. Once bitten, twice shy.......