Web Summit quits Dublin

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 2:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And do you imagine that the Office of the Taoiseach have anything whatseover to do with any of these?

I don't know, I don't work in govt. But if it wasn't the right dept they why were they engaging with him at all? Why didn't they just say 'talk to XYZ, here's their number'. Surely that'd be the thing to do if the Dept of the Taoiseach weren't the correct people to deal with?

smash · 21-10-2015 2:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year

And this was going to happen. But WS requested that any associated fees be waived.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The VIP escorts was a minor thing, iirc it was in reference to less than 10 VIPs. We already do tons of these for whatever two-bit diplomat is up in the Park for the day.

We're not talking about diplomats though, we're talking about tech millionaires. It's a waste of resources.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

He asked for free Dublin Busses to carry out specific routes to bring delegates to and from hotels. And he wanted the DOP to work out the logistics too.

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

No, they're really not.

21-10-2015 2:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't know, I don't work in govt. But if it wasn't the right dept they why were they engaging with him at all? Why didn't they just say 'talk to XYZ, here's their number'. Surely that'd be the thing to do if the Dept of the Taoiseach weren't the correct people to deal with?

Sure give the Department of the Taoiseach a mail there and ask them to sort you a coffee.

I assume they'll instantly reply with the details of your nearest Starbucks, and an apology for not being able to help you further.

--

There's absolutely no way that in the years that Paddy's organised the Web Summit in Ireland, that he wasn't totally and utterly aware of who he was supposed to be talking to. No way.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 2:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The DoT would have issues with Paddy Cosgrave paying private bus companies to operate as shuttle buses all over the city?

Really?

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

smash · 21-10-2015 2:54pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy.

By stating this, you've proven how unreasonable the requests were. Especially since they were requested 2 months before the conference.

21-10-2015 2:56pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy.

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 2:59pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

So why was he asking some companies to provide their buses for free? Of course, they would receive advertising from him.

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 3:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

But he would have had to pay for them! Paddy has to hold onto his millions!!

ChippingSodbury · 21-10-2015 3:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

... it's the 'who-do-ability' ...

Nice one!

_Tombstone_ · 21-10-2015 3:06pm

round in circles you all go

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 3:07pm

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure if you've been to Vegas, but the entire thing is structured as one big hotel. The entire town is designed as a destination. Without tourism, it has nothing. And conferences are a huge part of tourism because they bring in people charging everything to company expense accounts.

I see your sentiment, but to claim that "Vegas can do it, why can't Dublin" is like someone in Luxembourg asking why they can't be more of sailing destination. "Ireland can do it, why can't we".

I still think the point here is being missed. Dublin WAS doing it, we had the WS with 30,000 attendees. So why not kick on and send out Failte Ireland to see if they could snag another 7 or 8 annual conferences of this size? All the while pointing to the success of the WS in Dublin as a blueprint to other conference organisers, using it as a selling point to prove that we can host conferences of this size? What would have been so wrong with that?

smash wrote: »

And this was going to happen. But WS requested that any associated fees be waived.

We're not talking about diplomats though, we're talking about tech millionaires. It's a waste of resources.

He asked for free Dublin Busses to carry out specific routes to bring delegates to and from hotels. And he wanted the DOP to work out the logistics too.

No, they're really not.

It was a negotiation. He had the right to ask, they had the right to refuse. What they didn't have was the cop on to sit down with him and say 'right we can do XYZ at this cost, but there's no way we can do ABC'. Would that have been too difficult for our senior civil servants?

Deleted User wrote: »

There's absolutely no way that in the years that Paddy's organised the Web Summit in Ireland, that he wasn't totally and utterly aware of who he was supposed to be talking to. No way.

All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.

21-10-2015 3:10pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.

You didn't answer the important question about what sort of engagement you feel that the Government should have offered.

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

Instead of slating them for doing nothing, suggest what they might have done.

ThisRegard · 21-10-2015 3:16pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

If you think he's been defamed, you're the only one. Not even the Websummit or Cosgrave himself has come out to deny any of this.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 3:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

ThisRegard · 21-10-2015 3:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

Jesus, it's not a new public service route, it's feckin private transport for delegates. What are you talking about ?!

Are the various 3rd level colleges around the country who lay on private transport to and from exam halls for their students operating with route licences from the DoT?

21-10-2015 3:25pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

Call them and ask them to transport A people from X to Y.

They will quote you. They will not have a route licence unless they've applied for these licences from every single point in Dublin to every other point in Dublin (many millions of licences - just in case)

They will not get a route licence.

They won't even discuss a licence.

A licence will not be imagined.

Just consider what you're saying. Imagine if a Taxi could only take a pre-described route, requiring 18 months of clearance. Now just change that Taxi to be a bigger taxi, capable of carrying more people...

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 3:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You didn't answer the important question about what sort of engagement you feel that the Government should have offered.

As I highlighted above I think 3 of the requests should have been facilitated- but not for free. The Gardai/road closures should have been paid for. The VIP thing was only 10 people so I'd have no problems giving that for free as the quid pro quo was some 10,000 free tickets for schoolchildren. And the buses, laying on more buses, no problems, but the passenger pays.

As I said everything was a negotiation.

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering. We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

smash · 21-10-2015 3:27pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I still think the point here is being missed. Dublin WAS doing it, we had the WS with 30,000 attendees.

No we didn't. We do this year though if the projected attendance figures are correct.

Muahahaha wrote: »

So why not kick on and send out Failte Ireland to see if they could snag another 7 or 8 annual conferences of this size? All the while pointing to the success of the WS in Dublin as a blueprint to other conference organisers, using it as a selling point to prove that we can host conferences of this size? What would have been so wrong with that?

That can still be done. We haven't had a 30,000 conference just yet.

Muahahaha wrote: »

It was a negotiation. He had the right to ask, they had the right to refuse. What they didn't have was the cop on to sit down with him and say 'right we can do XYZ at this cost, but there's no way we can do ABC'. Would that have been too difficult for our senior civil servants?

WS pulled the plug before even meeting them. They gave him a plan which suggested meeting up to do a solid plan for 2016, based on the outcome of 2015 and he said no.

21-10-2015 3:33pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I highlighted above I think 3 of the requests should have been facilitated- but not for free.

Facilitated by whom? The Government is it?

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Gardai/road closures should have been paid for.

Firstly, is this a Government Issue? Or are the Gardaí independent?

Secondly, this is a quantifiable subsidy. I assume you'd have no issue offering that to anyone else who asked for it?

Muahahaha wrote: »

The VIP thing was only 10 people so I'd have no problems giving that for free as the quid pro quo was some 10,000 free tickets for schoolchildren.
.

Ah, so now the 'free' tickets aren't free, but are delivered at a cost of Gardaí overtime etc...

Again, what bit of this has the Government to engage in? And as before, this subsidy is now available to any / all?

Muahahaha wrote: »

And the buses, laying on more buses, no problems, but the passenger pays.

As far as I know, Enda Kenny doesn't run a bus service...
Perhaps PC would have had better luck asking a company that does run buses. ExpressBus could have helped. Dublin Bus might have helped too. But Enda Kenny's office probably doesn't have enough capacity to drive all those extra people around the city.

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I said everything was a negotiation.

And as I said, none of it has anything to do with the Government.

Muahahaha wrote: »

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering.

Why? If the Portugeuse Government overstep their remit as a Government and gamble public funds on an event, that's not a good enough reason for us to do the same.

Muahahaha wrote: »

We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

Correct. But the Office of the Taoiseach is not the avenue for this. That Paddy considers his private business issues as Government issues does not make it so.

machiavellianme · 21-10-2015 3:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

Is Paddy lobbying?

smash · 21-10-2015 3:44pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering. We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

Lisbon are giving him a million Euro to move there.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 3:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Facilitated by whom? The Government is it?

Firstly, is this a Government Issue? Or are the Gardaí independent?

Secondly, this is a quantifiable subsidy. I assume you'd have no issue offering that to anyone else who asked for it?

Ah, so now the 'free' tickets aren't free, but are delivered at a cost of Gardaí overtime etc...

Again, what bit of this has the Government to engage in? And as before, this subsidy is now available to any / all?

As far as I know, Enda Kenny doesn't run a bus service...
Perhaps PC would have had better luck asking a company that does run buses. ExpressBus could have helped. Dublin Bus might have helped too. But Enda Kenny's office probably doesn't have enough capacity to drive all those extra people around the city.

And as I said, none of it has anything to do with the Government.

Why? If the Portugeuse Government overstep their remit as a Government and gamble public funds on an event, that's not a good enough reason for us to do the same.

Correct. But the Office of the Taoiseach is not the avenue for this. That Paddy considers his private business issues as Government issues does not make it so.

If it was not then fair enough. But if it was not then why didn't they send him to the correct people? It was their mistake in not doing this, they chose to engage him. Then they took 2 weeks to send a one line reply to an email, are you going to defend that too?

The extra buses, road closures around the venue, Gardai outside the venue directing the heavy traffic it suffers from, the VIP runs- these could all have been achieved at a cost to the organisers. Not for free like Cosgrave wanted but at a cost. Like I said its a negotiation and its what people in business do every day. Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

btw the Portuguese govt saw it as their responsibility at a high level. Seems like they took the influx of cash and visitors seriously whereas our own govt just paid it lip service.

ThisRegard · 21-10-2015 4:03pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

What's it got to do with the department of an Taoiseach?

As for your misguided assertions, why do you think so many IT companies have pretty good setups here (I'm not talking about the boiler plates), do you think they all decided to locate here for the craic with no state involvement?

21-10-2015 4:03pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

If it was not then fair enough. But if it was not then why didn't they send him to the correct people? It was their mistake in not doing this, they chose to engage him. Then they took 2 weeks to send a one line reply to an email, are you going to defend that too?

No. I said that their reply wasn't sufficient but his 'asks' were outrageous and so were possibly treated as such.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The extra buses, road closures around the venue, Gardai outside the venue directing the heavy traffic it suffers from, the VIP runs- these could all have been achieved at a cost to the organisers. Not for free like Cosgrave wanted but at a cost. Like I said its a negotiation and its what people in business do every day. Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

You've not once suggested what those 'eejits in the Taoiseachs dept' should have done differently. You've been told that it's not their remit to subsidise and assist private businesses in increasing their profit margins.

If I run a business that's worth €Xm to the Irish Economy over a year, and a supplier in Sligo increases their prices, should I be permitted to get the Office of the Taoiseach to put pressure on that supplier as its affecting my profit margins?

You are actually giving out about the Government not engaging in corruption. Madness!

Muahahaha wrote: »

btw the Portuguese govt saw it as their responsibility at a high level. Seems like they took the influx of cash and visitors seriously whereas our own govt just paid it lip service.

If the Government wants to put public money on a horse at Punchestown it's not permitted to.
The Portuguese Government has done something pretty similar.

HamsterFace · 21-10-2015 4:24pm

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

heebusjeebus · 21-10-2015 4:25pm

HamsterFace wrote: »

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

Maybe he's angry and causing all the site instability :eek:

smash · 21-10-2015 4:39pm

HamsterFace wrote: »

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

I don't think he's bothered. There's never replies to comment sin the blog, like in this post: http://blog.websummit.net/web-summit-scam-setting-record-straight/

I think it's sad that he took the route he did when moving the conference abroad and especially the way he passed blame to everyone else. I lost a lot of respect for the event over it, and it really brought the bad stories from previous exhibitors to light.

I know people who are attending this year as speakers and exhibitors and those who just got tickets from work, and I was planning on going along for a day or two and to get out on a pub crawl with them but I really don't want to line Paddy's pockets now.

CatFromHue · 21-10-2015 4:54pm

I've no problem with him moving the conference, I do have a problem with all the bitching and moaning he's done and then there's the leaking of private emails too. He's just given out email addresses and a phone number to the public.

Then you add in the fact that emails actually make him and his Summit look bad.

Tarzana2 · 21-10-2015 4:58pm

How was the email correspondence he released received outside of boards.ie?

ThisRegard · 21-10-2015 5:01pm

Pretty much the same, one or two trying to lay the blame at the government but go quiet when asked to defend him.

BoardsMember · 21-10-2015 5:02pm

As with most things, there are two sides to the story. Ask some of the hoteliers what they think of all this. For example, if the organisers were to block book rooms at a negotiated preferential rate, and then contributed hiked prices by selling the same rooms at a premium. If that were the case, how could the organsisers give out about price gouging.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:09pm

smash wrote: »

I think it's sad that he took the route he did when moving the conference abroad ...

Dublin can't host this summit if it continues at the current rate of growth. We simply don't have the facilities and it wouldn't make sense to build them for this one conference.

smash · 21-10-2015 5:22pm

kidneyfan wrote: »

Dublin can't host this summit if it continues at the current rate of growth. We simply don't have the facilities and it wouldn't make sense to build them for this one conference.

I agree. However Paddy was told that a plan would be put in place for 2016 based on the performance of 2015 but he said no.

He wanted a lot of planning done within 2 months and he didn't want to do it himself. It begs the questions about this year's conference... Will the WIFI work? Do all delegates have hotel rooms? Will traffic cause chaos? Because if these issues come to surface it's not the government's fault, it's entirely Paddy's fault for over selling a conference knowing the restrictions. He had a year to plan and it appears he didn't do it properly. Maybe the engineers who are organising it forgot to carry the 1...

Calina · 21-10-2015 6:35pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

I think you are mixing up private hire and public transport requirements. Certainly public transport routes need to be licensed. Private hire on the other hand has different regulations.

I don't think Dublin is a good target for lots of huge conferences. It is, on the other hand, a fairly decent target for midsized conferences and the interesting thing about them is there tends to be significantly more of them. I'd prefer we concentrated on maximising our returns rather than gambling on one big one for effect.

jd · 21-10-2015 8:15pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 8:52pm

jd wrote: »

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

Amazing how she could grow that Ploughing Championship over the years to the mammoth which it now is and people still hardly know her name!! (Anna McHugh)

namloc1980 · 21-10-2015 9:17pm

kidneyfan wrote: »

In fairness Web Summit were never given a price for what they wanted.
Clearly they would have had a number of bodies to liaise with for example Dublin Bus, Gardai, Dublin City Council and much of what they wanted would have been available for a price.

That's because they wanted it for free. Complimentary use of public buildings, waiving of various fees etc.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 2:17pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's it got to do with the department of an Taoiseach?

As for your misguided assertions, why do you think so many IT companies have pretty good setups here (I'm not talking about the boiler plates), do you think they all decided to locate here for the craic with no state involvement?

So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?

jd wrote: »

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

jd · 22-10-2015 2:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

A lot more goes on there than the actual ploughing. Loads of presentations by companies etc.

smash · 22-10-2015 2:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

It's an exhibition and trade show. The largest of it's kind in Europe. This year there were 281,000 attendees.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 2:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No. I said that their reply wasn't sufficient but his 'asks' were outrageous and so were possibly treated as such.

So you admit the govt didn't do enough.

If I run a business that's worth €Xm to the Irish Economy over a year, and a supplier in Sligo increases their prices, should I be permitted to get the Office of the Taoiseach to put pressure on that supplier as its affecting my profit margins?

You are actually giving out about the Government not engaging in corruption. Madness!

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them. As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all. That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions. That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'. Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy. Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

If the Government wants to put public money on a horse at Punchestown it's not permitted to.
The Portuguese Government has done something pretty similar.

Are you saying the Portugese govt spending money to get people to come to their country is illegal state aid? Unreal Because Failte Ireland do this all the time.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 2:30pm

jd wrote: »

A lot more goes on there than the actual ploughing. Loads of presentations by companies etc.

The Ploughing Championships is not a conference in any way that people know conferences so its pretty disingenuous to try to dress it up as one to suit your argument in an attempt to score a few cheap points. Furthermore I doubt Anna May would be too happy with people trying to label her event as a conference, if she wanted it to be that I'm sure she would have called it the Ploughing Conference.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 2:34pm

smash wrote: »

It's an exhibition and trade show. The largest of it's kind in Europe. This year there were 281,000 attendees.

Which is different to a conference.

And largest of what kind? Gatherings of people in an outdoor venue?

smash · 22-10-2015 2:36pm

Muahahaha, you seem to believe that organising a conference(event) for 30,000 people is a whole lot more difficult than organising an event for 281,000 people.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 2:37pm

smash wrote: »

Muahahaha, you seem to believe that organising a conference(event) for 30,000 people is a whole lot more difficult than organising an event for 281,000 people.

eh no, you're trying to put words in my mouth. I never said any such thing.

smash · 22-10-2015 2:39pm

You keep referring to it as 'a conference' in order to dismiss other events of a larger scale. A conference is an event, it's all event management.

Sofiztikated · 22-10-2015 2:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Ploughing Championships is not a conference in any way that people know conferences so its pretty disingenuous to try to dress it up as one to suit your argument in an attempt to score a few cheap points. Furthermore I doubt Anna May would be too happy with people trying to label her event as a conference, if she wanted it to be that I'm sure she would have called it the Ploughing Conference.

It started as just a competition. It has evolved into THE largest trade show of it's kind. You know, similar to the Web Summit. It does the very same thing as what Paddy Cosgrove was doing, albeit in a different field (boom boom :pac: )

Delegates fly in, traffic restrictions are organised, transport is provided, hotel rooms are organised, exhibitors show off their wares, deals are made, and people have a good time as well. How is this not in any way like what the Web Summit is?

Paddy boasted about this event not being organised by an events company. There is a reason events companies are there. They could have sorted out a lot of his issues, by knowing who and where to go to get things done.

22-10-2015 3:01pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you admit the govt didn't do enough.

I said their reply wasn't sufficient. They should have told him that he was speaking to the wrong people and that it was his job to organise what he was asking the Government to do for him.

I imagine that this had been said before to him over the last few years of running the event though. I doubt we'll ever see that correspondence.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them.

What negotiation was there available to anyone on the Dept of the Taoiseach? Tell me what you'd like anyone in the Dept of the Taoiseach to have done for PC, and be aware that by default this must then be available to each and every private business owner in the country. (unless corruption)

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all.

What are XYZ and ABC? To my mind, none of what PC has asked the Government to do has anything to do with them. Nothing. There is nowhere that they can move.

Give me an example of one tangible thing that you would have been happy for them to do on Paddy's behalf - again, recall that this must then be available to all other private business owners acting in their own interests. (unless corruption)

Muahahaha wrote: »

That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions.

Yes. I agree that it was poor form not to answer (to shoo him away) more pertinently.

Muahahaha wrote: »

That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'.

Ireland being 'open for business' doesn't mean that the office of the Taoiseach is 'available for hire - at 0 cost'.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy.

That's a bizarre definition of being open for business.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

Can you detail what of that money would end up in the state's coffers? That number seems very big considering the numbers involved in the event.

Very. Very. Big.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are you saying the Portugese govt spending money to get people to come to their country is illegal state aid? Unreal Because Failte Ireland do this all the time.

No. I haven't said that.

They've taken a gamble on an event though by subsidising it directly. I've asked you more than once to tell us what direct subsidies you would have been happy to have the Irish Government offer Paddy Cosgrave. You have failed to answer that question.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 3:07pm

smash wrote: »

You keep referring to it as 'a conference' in order to dismiss other events of a larger scale. A conference is an event, it's all event management.

Well the Web Summit IS a conference, one which consists primarily of B2B transactions. The Ploughing Championships is a competition first and foremost which exhibition space with a B2C focus.

In any case this is nothing more than whataboutery. I've never set out to compare the two- you did.

I'm simply making the point that the Irish govt did not do enough (in fact they did nothing at all) to keep this €108m (their figures, not mine) in the economy. Now if you want to defend buffons in the Dept of the Taoiseach and tell me how they did an amazing job then go right ahead.

Jimoslimos · 22-10-2015 3:10pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them. As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all. That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions. That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'. Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy. Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

We berate "gombeen" politicians for "fixing the road" and the like. Getting involved in micro-managing events like this is essentially the same thing.

Web Summit quits Dublin

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