Web Summit quits Dublin

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well the Web Summit IS a conference, one which consists primarily of B2B transactions. The Ploughing Championships is a competition first and foremost.

No it's not. Foremost, it's a trade show!

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case this is nothing more than whataboutery. I've never set out to compete the two- you did.

Not just me. Others too. Because the point is that they're both events. Same planning etc.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm simply making the point that the Irish govt did not do enough (in fact they did nothing at all) to keep this €108m (their figures, not mine) in the economy. Now if you want to defend buffons in the Dept of the Taoiseach and tell me how they did an amazing job then go right ahead.

Nobody's saying they did an amazing job, we're saying they couldn't have done anything. You seem to think otherwise without stating what they could have done, given that Paddy wasn't looking for a negotiation. He was looking for freebies.

smash

Jimoslimos wrote: »

We berate "gombeen" politicians for "fixing the road" and the like. Getting involved in micro-managing events like this is essentially the same thing.

It's worse. A road benefits a community. This event primarily benefits a private company.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

I said their reply wasn't sufficient. They should have told him that he was speaking to the wrong people and that it was his job to organise what he was asking the Government to do for him.

So we can both agree the govt didn't do enough.

What negotiation was there available to anyone on the Dept of the Taoiseach? Tell me what you'd like anyone in the Dept of the Taoiseach to have done for PC, and be aware that by default this must then be available to each and every private business owner in the country. (unless corruption)

What are XYZ and ABC? To my mind, none of what PC has asked the Government to do has anything to do with them. Nothing. There is nowhere that they can move.

Give me an example of one tangible thing that you would have been happy for them to do on Paddy's behalf - again, recall that this must then be available to all other private business owners acting in their own interests. (unless corruption)

I've already dealt with this further back the thread. To summarise- extra Gardai and limited road closures, extra Dublin Buses and a traffic plan. All at the expense of Cosgrave or attendees. No subsidies, just help in ensuring the thousands of participants can get home without having to walk like they did last year, it was chaos that you'd expect to see in India. No buses, the few that did show up were full and kept going. These are simple things that any city has to get right if they want to attract large scale events. Apparently were bidding for the 2023 Rugby WC, the chaos following the Web Summit last year does not bode well for us hosting 48 games with much bigger crowds.

Yes. I agree that it was poor form not to answer (to shoo him away) more pertinently.

Ireland being 'open for business' doesn't mean that the office of the Taoiseach is 'available for hire - at 0 cost'.

That's a bizarre definition of being open for business.

Can you detail what of that money would end up in the state's coffers? That number seems very big considering the numbers involved in the event.

Very. Very. Big.

The €108m is Enda Kennys figure so dispute it with him, it came out of his mouth.

As regards how much the State gets, again I dealt with this in detail yesterday so am not repeating myself. Read back a couple of pages. Needless to say quite a chunk. Our VAT rate is the highest in the EU just for starters.

And its Enda himself who encouraged entreprenuers to contact him if they want to do business in Ireland. Its his mantra, not mine. He even gave out his mobile phone number and told entreprenuers to ring him and he would help with their problems. Cosgrave did just that and look where it got him. Unanswered emails is about the height of Enda's 'Open for Business' spin.

They've taken a gamble on an event though by subsidising it directly. I've asked you more than once to tell us what direct subsidies you would have been happy to have the Irish Government offer Paddy Cosgrave. You have failed to answer that question.

Again I've dealt with all this on the thread

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've already dealt with this further back the thread. To summarise- extra Gardai and limited road closures, extra Dublin Buses and a traffic plan.

None of these have anything to do with the Government!

If Gardaí are needed, speak to the Gardaí (note - not the Government)
If Buses are needed, speak to Dublin Bus or another private company (note - not the Government)
If a Traffic plan is needed, speak to DCC (note - not the Government)
If WiFi infrastructure upgrades are needed, speak to the venue. (note - not the Government)

Why should the department of the Taoiseach co-ordinate any of this for a private business?

Just pick a single item and tell me what anyone in the Department of the Taoiseach should/could do to help?

If it is "ring someone and organise something for Paddy Cosgrave's private company" then be aware that you are asking that the Department of the Taoiseach offer Web Summit event management services pro-bono. A direct subsidy.

Muahahaha wrote: »

All at the expense of Cosgrave or attendees.

What rate do you think Cosgrave would accept as a per-hour billable for the event management services that he is requesting from the Department of the Taoiseach?

€100 p/h? €200 p/h?

Muahahaha wrote: »

No subsidies, just help in ensuring the thousands of participants can get home without having to walk like they did last year, it was chaos that you'd expect to see in India. No buses, the few that did show up were full and kept going. These are simple things that any city has to get right if they want to attract large scale events.

1 - Time is money
2 - Perhaps he should have organised the event better?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Apparently were bidding for the 2023 Rugby WC, the chaos following the Web Summit last year does not bode well for us hosting 48 games with much bigger crowds.

The company that will be organising that bid, and the event management for all the events (if it is a successful bid) will no doubt co-operate with Dublin Bus and the Gardaí and DCC in order to ensure that their events go off without a hitch.

This avenue was of course open to Paddy Cosgrave's private company aiming to run an event.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The €108m is Enda Kennys figure so dispute it with him, it came out of his mouth.
As regards how much the State gets, again I dealt with this in detail yesterday so am not repeating myself. Read back a couple of pages. Needless to say quite a chunk. Our VAT rate is the highest in the EU just for starters.

It's just a number though. I asked specifically how much of that would ever cross the State's coffers.

Considering the revenues of Web Summit are buried in that number, there's quite a large difference between that headline number (that Enda would obviously embrace) and the bottom line of what it adds to the State's coffers.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And its Enda himself who encouraged entreprenuers to contact him if they want to do business in Ireland. Its his mantra, not mine. He even gave out his mobile phone number and told entreprenuers to ring him and he would help with their problems. Cosgrave did just that and look where it got him. Unanswered emails is about the height of Enda's 'Open for Business' spin.

Link?
Nothing in any of these
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-door-open-to-us-business-leaders-262015.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/media/taoiseach-enda-kenny-opens-new-digitalled-news-hub-at-inm-31549587.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/enda-kenny-promotes-irish-business-in-lyons-1.2340653

Muahahaha wrote: »

Again I've dealt with all this on the thread

Please link. The search facility will assist.

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

He seems to be fully convinced that the majority of the asks could have been done and negotiated from "free" to "a small fee" even though it's not in the government's remit to do so.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

None of these have anything to do with the Government!

If Gardaí are needed, speak to the Gardaí (note - not the Government)
If Buses are needed, speak to Dublin Bus or another private company (note - not the Government)
If a Traffic plan is needed, speak to DCC (note - not the Government)
If WiFi infrastructure upgrades are needed, speak to the venue. (note - not the Government)

Why should the department of the Taoiseach co-ordinate any of this for a private business?

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?

Just pick a single item and tell me what anyone in the Department of the Taoiseach should/could do to help?

If it is "ring someone and organise something for Paddy Cosgrave's private company" then be aware that you are asking that the Department of the Taoiseach offer Web Summit event management services pro-bono. A direct subsidy.

What rate do you think Cosgrave would accept as a per-hour billable for the event management services that he is requesting from the Department of the Taoiseach?

€100 p/h? €200 p/h?



1 - Time is money
2 - Perhaps he should have organised the event better?

All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.

It's just a number though. I asked specifically how much of that would ever cross the State's coffers.

How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?

Nothing in any of these
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-door-open-to-us-business-leaders-262015.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/media/taoiseach-enda-kenny-opens-new-digitalled-news-hub-at-inm-31549587.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/enda-kenny-promotes-irish-business-in-lyons-1.2340653

You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/

ENDA KENNY SAYS his open invitation to global businesses to call him anytime has had some unexpected consequences.
While in the US for St Patrick’s Day festivities, the Taoiseach told company executives to “call me anytime”.
Speaking at a US Embassy event in Dublin’s Marker Hotel today though, he rolled back on his promise.
“I said to people, look, you’re all involved in the business, here’s my phone number if you want to call me.
“Christ, I’m getting phone calls from Adelaide and New Zealand and everywhere,” he said to much laughter.
“Some of them are not what you might expect. They are not all about industry.”

And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone

The Taoiseach is making his annual St. Patrick's Day pilgrimage to the US.

Last night he met with business leaders, in a bid to strengthen trade ties between the two countries.

During a speech to the US Chamber of Commerce in Wasington D.C., Enda Kenny explained his unique response to communicating with Ireland's citizens, and encouraged those interested in our country to pick up the phone and call him:

Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?

All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.

Paddy Cosgrave knows all of this.
He's not a new fish. You should probably think a bit more highly of him. He can't have been running his company in Dublin for the last X years without being very aware of the avenues that he was supposed to be dealing with.

The department did not engage him. They put him on the long finger. That's the thing we've agreed that neither of us think they've done well ! How can you change your mind on this in the space of 5 posts?

Muahahaha wrote: »

How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?

The economy would not be €108m better off. It won't be €108m worse off next year without it. The headline number is almost meaningless. It's for headlines. Perhaps its best not to try to use it when you don't understand it.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/
And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone
Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?

Fair enough. Some of the usual rhetoric and soundbites from a politician being a politician.

Perhaps fool Paddy for thinking that that the empty rhetoric is some form of contract that he can use to get pro-bono event management done by the Department of the Taoiseach.

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

And I've asked you politely to assist me, given that I am totally unable to find a single tangible example that you have given. http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=655057&forum=7&sort=newest&date_to=&date_from=&query=%2A%3A%2A

Not one.

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Paddy Cosgrave knows all of this.
He's not a new fish. You should probably think a bit more highly of him. He can't have been running his company in Dublin for the last X years without being very aware of the avenues that he was supposed to be dealing with.

If there's one characteristic of the web summit that's stronger than its aversion to paying for stuff it's amateurish organization.

They probably should'nt of boasted about not hiring event managers because it was obvious that they desperately needed some

smash

Bambi wrote: »

If there's one characteristic of the web summit that's stronger than its aversion to paying for stuff it's amateurish organization.

They probably should'nt of boasted about not hiring event managers because it was obvious that they desperately needed some

Shhh, you can't criticise them or you'll be accused of defaming them and having a personal vendetta against them. :rolleyes:

flouncer

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?




All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.



How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?




You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/


And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone


Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?




For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

Paddy, good to have you involved in our banter :-)

Annasopra

Muahahaha wrote: »

How come no one ever seems to mention that Dublin, like Lisbon, is a small capital city and that we need to compete for events like these?

Like Lisbon is throwing up e100 per conference attendee because the Mayor knows the lowest spend per attendee is approx e1,500 and a lot more for other attendees taking exhibition space at the event, the taxes from which more than cover the initial 100 euro subsidy.

Is this not business sense to pay the 100e subsidy to get lots more in tax? Would people posting here prefer that tax goes to the Portugese govt rather than our own? Lisbons gain is very much our loss on this debacle. Our Govt tells us that they're pro-business but the Portugese Govt backs it up with actions.

Look Paddy wanted to fleece his customers and wanted the Irish taxpayer to pay for everything so he could fleece them more. I think Enda finally copped that Paddy is a spoofer, has always been a spoofer and we're better off here in Ireland without his unprofessional spoofery.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

The department did not engage him. They put him on the long finger. That's the thing we've agreed that neither of us think they've done well ! How can you change your mind on this in the space of 5 posts?

Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him? You're trying to shift the goalposts now that you've lost this part of the argument. It simply cannot be said that they did not engage him when they were spending time and man hours producing draft frameworks for him. Not engaging him would have meant they said 'go talk to XYZ', they never did that because they engaged him

The economy would not be €108m better off. It won't be €108m worse off next year without it. The headline number is almost meaningless. It's for headlines. Perhaps its best not to try to use it when you don't understand it.

Its Endas words not mine. But becasue it doesn't suit your argument you're now saying it is irrelevant. More goalpost shifting from you. By your logic the economy will be better off without the €108m, you seem like you would prefer we not have it the way you're posting on here

Fair enough. Some of the usual rhetoric and soundbites from a politician being a politician.

So first you didn't believe me and went searching, you couldn't find out anything about it and then came back here boasting about it. When I show you the evidence its 'fair enough', lol! The fact Enda Kenny gave out his phone number and told executives to ring him if they needed their business problems solved shows that Paddy Cosgrave did what Kenny said executives of a global company should do. Your argument was that the Dept of the Taoiseach has nothing to do with helping businesses, that argument is now torn to shreds by the evidence of Enda himself 'Irelands Open for Business' he claims, ring me! Yet when entrepruneurs like Cosgrave do just that they get short shrift from an unprofessional bunch of senior civil servants.

And I've asked you politely to assist me, given that I am totally unable to find a single tangible example that you have given. http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=655057&forum=7&sort=newest&date_to=&date_from=&query=%2A%3A%2A

Not one.

Look you've already proved that you're not very good at searching. But heres a tip- I posted 3 clear things from his list of asks that they could have done and they are all there for everyone to see. If you aren't smart enough to find them then it ain't my job to show you.

Annasopra

Muahahaha wrote: »

Lie is a very strong word and it isn't one I'd use lightly. People can be misinformed and then give our the wrong information without meaning to. Thats a whole different matter to outright lying. It is almost impossible to prove is someone sets out to delibritely lie and mislead people which is why I don't think its a good idea to ever call anyone a liar in public like Smash just did.

Maybe he doesnt lie but misleads people. He certainly mislead a large number in 2009


http://www.irishelection.com/2009/04/micandidateeu-the-full-analysis/

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Shhh, you can't criticise them or you'll be accused of defaming them and having a personal vendetta against them. :rolleyes:

Its pretty obvious from your posts and attacks on him that you do have some sort fo vendetta against him. They are nothing more that irrational and vitriolic. It sounds to me like you just begrudge him his success, it is not unusual in Ireland, this country is full of begrudgers

PhoenixParker

The idea that the web summit is some sort of huge international conference with massive logistical issues that require the Taoiseach's attention puzzles me.

It was 22,119 attendees last year and apparently 30,000 this year.
The capacity of the RDS arena for a concert is 38,000 people, for a rugby match is 18,500.
The young scientists exhibition had an attendance of 59,000 over four days this year.

The number of attendees at the web summit is in line with the number of attendees at many other events held in the RDS.
It really shouldn't pose a problem to the venue or to those organising logistics for it.

A big international rugby match would have a similar hotel demand impact to the web summit.
For instance "An estimated 15,000 out-of-state visitors attended the Ireland versus England rugby game in the Aviva Stadium on 1st March 2015 . . . The average stay of attendees in Dublin was 2.6 nights"
http://irishsport.ie/wpress/index.php/2015/07/new-report-shows-value-of-big-events-to-irish-economy-ireland-v-england-rugby-worth-e21-3m/

There are multiple concerts, sporting events and indeed exhibitions and conferences in Dublin every year that are a similar scale or bigger. They generally manage to liaise with the relevant authorities, sort their logistical issues and get on with the job without the personal attention of An Taoiseach or leaving in a huff for Lisbon.

I've always felt that part of the reason web summit did well was because it was in Dublin which has become the american multi-national capital of Europe and thus was well placed to attract visitors to a web summit type event. It'll be interesting to see how it does in Lisbon.

Tarzana2

Give it up, Muahahaha. Cosgrave tried to use high pressures sales tactics on the government and it responded in the best possible way - with unconcealed indifference. You can almost hear the Gallic shrug.

Your posts come off like you are either involved in the event, or are simply a dog with a bone with no particular interest other than to prove yourself right. Or have a big grudge against the civil service.

And you've now trotted out "begrudgery". Goodnight and good luck.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him?

But sure you keep saying that they did nothing...

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its pretty obvious from your posts and attacks on him that you do have some sort fo vendetta against him. They are nothing more that irrational and vitriolic. It sounds to me like you just begrudge him his success, it is not unusual in Ireland, this country is full of begrudgers

I've stated on numerous occasions that this isn't true. I just don't like how the guy operates. But keep on defending him. With every post you make, it sounds more and more like you're actually him.

brooke 2

Muahahaha wrote: »

So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?



eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

The point is that a huge undertaking like it can be organised without all the histrionics which we have witnessed from Paddy Cosgrave.

flouncer

brooke 2 wrote: »

The point is that a huge undertaking like it can be organised without all the histrionics which we have witnessed from Paddy Cosgrave.

From time to time I like to get my dig in at people (particularly Paddy supporters). But I will say that this country is built on entrepreneurs like paddy and the likes of denis o'brien. I have no appreciation for either of these individuals but they did get up off their arse and do something while paying minimum rates to employees.

What bothers me about said folks is their disrespect to the overall community. they have no care for this country. Denis does his taxes elsewhere and god knows where paddy does his tax affairs. and maybe a reason to move to lisbon?

Tarzana2

flouncer wrote: »

but they did get up off their arse and do something while paying minimum rates to employees.

Go them?

brooke 2

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Maybe he doesnt lie but misleads people. He certainly mislead a large number in 2009


http://www.irishelection.com/2009/04/micandidateeu-the-full-analysis/

I am not surprised the government has given him the cold shoulder. I imagine after 'Rock The Vote' and 'MiCandidate' there are many people who have more than the measure of Paddy!

'Five interns to one paid employee'; 'Paddy likes to mix his databases'!!!
:mad::mad:

Muahahaha

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Your posts come off like you are either involved in the event, or are simply a dog with a bone with no particular interest other than to prove yourself right. Or have a big grudge against the civil service.

And you've now trotted out "begrudgery". Goodnight and good luck.

I've nothing to do with the event except for attending back in 2010. I realised it was all waffle then and didn't attend in 2011, despite Cosgraves clock ticking down sales tactics. I'm not here to defend him, I happen to hold the view that his conference was worth a lot of money to the economy and that it could have been used as a blueprint to sell other conferences and make Dublin a destination for private events in the 30,000-50,000 range. If other cities can get a couple of million conference attendees annually I don't see why Dublin (or even Cork) can't aim for 500,000 annually.

The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see

smash wrote: »

But sure you keep saying that they did nothing...

They engaged him, messed him about and did nothing. They should have just said talk to XYZ, if they did that then we wouldn't even be discussing this at all. But they didn't, they messed him about taking 2 weeks to reply to an email, even then it was a one line reply. It was the stuff of incompetence, all the while Enda preaches to the media about how 'Irelands open for Business' and sure ring me up, I'll help you out.

smash wrote: »

I've stated on numerous occasions that this isn't true. I just don't like how the guy operates. But keep on defending him. With every post you make, it sounds more and more like you're actually him.

You must be blind or deluded because I've slagged Cosgrave off on this thread quite enough. I couldn't give a dam about him, what I do care is about is our Taoiseach and senior civil servants doing their job- i.e making sure money comes into the economy from abroad. In case you didn't know Ireland is one of the most open economies in the world and we have a higher need for foreign capital than most others. The WS offered the chance of foreign capital for a conference followed up (hopefully) by FDI from executives who like the cut of Ireland having visited here themselves and then decide to invest further. If you don't get that simple premise it shows you have no business nous whatsoever. We;ve lost all those executives, Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, only an idiot would argue that having some of the tech worlds most influential people in town for a few days is not a good idea for attracting future investments and job creation. But Smash your posts show consistently that you don't want the WS here, you don't like Paddy and are happy to see him leave for Lisbon. Fair enough :rolleyes:

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see

I don't recall any jealousy fits. Perhaps you could point them out.

Muahahaha wrote: »

They engaged him, messed him about and did nothing.

A minute ago you said they offered him a plan. Which is admitting they did something.

Muahahaha wrote: »

They should have just said talk to XYZ, if they did that then we wouldn't even be discussing this at all. But they didn't, they messed him about taking 2 weeks to reply to an email, even then it was a one line reply. It was the stuff of incompetence, all the while Enda preaches to the media about how 'Irelands open for Business' and sure ring me up, I'll help you out.

Most of Paddy's emails were one line.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You must be blind or deluded because I've slagged Cosgrave off on this thread quite enough. I couldn't give a dam about him, what I do care is about is our Taoiseach and senior civil servants doing their job- i.e making sure money comes into the economy from abroad. In case you didn't know Ireland is one of the most open economies in the world and we have a higher need for foreign capital than most others. The WS offered the chance of foreign capital for a conference followed up (hopefully) by FDI from executives who like the cut of Ireland having visited here themselves and then decide to invest further. If you don't get that simple premise it shows you have no business nous whatsoever.

I'm neither deluded or blind, and I have a business that's ticking over pretty nicely thanks.

Muahahaha wrote: »

We;ve lost all those executives, Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain,

That remains to be seen.

Muahahaha wrote: »

only an idiot would argue that having some of the tech worlds most influential people in town for a few days is not a good idea for attracting future investments and job creation.

But nobody's arguing that.

Muahahaha wrote: »

But Smash your posts show consistently that you don't want the WS here,

But I didn't say that.

Muahahaha wrote: »

you don't like Paddy and are happy to see him leave for Lisbon. Fair enough :rolleyes:

This bits true.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

I'm neither deluded or blind, and I have a business that's ticking over pretty nicely thanks.


That remains to be seen.


But nobody's arguing that.


But I didn't say that.


This bits true.

If you ran a business you'd ne the first to condemn the senior civil servants taking 2 weeks to answer an email. O have yet to hear you do that. Do you take two weeks to answer an email in your business? I suspect not because if you did you wouldn't have one for long.

Which is the point I'm making, Enda constantly tells us how he is pro-business but when it comes down to it everything is just spin. If they wanted to sit down with Cosgrave to see what was possible to keep the gig here then they could of. They chose not to, instead ignoring him for weeks at a time and generally messing him about with plans for a plan. There's no getting away from that fact that the Dept of the Taoiseach come out of this very badly and they have done Ireland some dis-service. Because they haven't a busness head between them and the Lisbon lot do Ireland loses out. Its that simple.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

If you ran a business you'd ne the first to condemn the senior civil servants taking 2 weeks to answer an email. O have yet to hear you do that. Do you take two weeks to answer an email in your business? I suspect not because if you did you wouldn't have one for long.

You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him! All while the Dail were returning from summer recess and trying to deliver a budget.

So it took them 2 weeks to reply to an email containing threats to fix issues that they can't fix... Should they have replied earlier? Probably. And the reply should have said "cop on Paddy, you've been doing this for years and you know who you should be talking to. Don't threaten us again."

Muahahaha wrote: »

Which is the point I'm making, Enda constantly tells us how he is pro-business but when it comes down to it everything is just spin. If they wanted to sit down with Cosgrave to see what was possible to keep the gig here then they could of. They chose not to, instead ignoring him for weeks at a time and generally messing him about with plans for a plan. There's no getting away from that fact that the Dept of the Taoiseach come out of this very badly and they have done Ireland some dis-service. Because they haven't a busness head between them and the Lisbon lot do Ireland loses out. Its that simple.

Paddy came out of this a whole lot worse, and he did his country a disservice by attempting to slate us just because he couldn't event manage his event. He came across as a spoiled brat!

Can I ask you if you're going to blame the government of the summit some how falls apart this year with regards to wifi issues etc?

Tarzana2

Muahahaha wrote: »

The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him? You're trying to shift the goalposts now that you've lost this part of the argument. It simply cannot be said that they did not engage him when they were spending time and man hours producing draft frameworks for him. Not engaging him would have meant they said 'go talk to XYZ', they never did that because they engaged him

DCC prepared the draft plan. Not the Office of the Taoiseach.

Where is the evidence that anyone in the Office of the Taoiseach spent any man hours producing draft frameworks for anyone?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its Endas words not mine. But becasue it doesn't suit your argument you're now saying it is irrelevant. More goalpost shifting from you. By your logic the economy will be better off without the €108m, you seem like you would prefer we not have it the way you're posting on here

Enda isn't a fascist dictator who's word is gospel. He's a populist spoofer like 99.995% of our politicians.
They know that they can make statements that they don't have to follow through on, heck, he's not even allowed follow through on it (unless corruption).

So when Enda says 'call me, we'll sort something out' - the smart thing to do is recognise that as a slogan, and not a way for you to walk away from your own responsibilities as an event manager and instead believe that you can now 'outsource' those duties to the Office of the Taoiseach!

Muahahaha wrote: »

So first you didn't believe me and went searching, you couldn't find out anything about it and then came back here boasting about it. When I show you the evidence its 'fair enough', lol!

Yes. I ceded the point that he said something because I was shown that he said something. This is a logical thing to do. My ignorance of his previous quote doesn't change any of the points I've raised.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The fact Enda Kenny gave out his phone number and told executives to ring him if they needed their business problems solved shows that Paddy Cosgrave did what Kenny said executives of a global company should do.

Enda Kenny is the Taoiseach of the Government, not a 'Fixer'.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Your argument was that the Dept of the Taoiseach has nothing to do with helping businesses, that argument is now torn to shreds by the evidence of Enda himself 'Irelands Open for Business' he claims, ring me! Yet when entrepruneurs like Cosgrave do just that they get short shrift from an unprofessional bunch of senior civil servants.

As above, Enda is not a dictator who can re-write the remit of the Office of the Taoiseach on a whim. He does not have benevolent powers to appropriate the Office to assist private companies in increasing their profits. Enda spoofing does not 'shred' my argument at all. It's just Enda spoofing.
If Paddy Cosgrave believed Enda fully (he didn't), to the extent that he stopped trying to organise the matters that he 'passed' to the Office of the Taoiseach, then more fool him.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Look you've already proved that you're not very good at searching. But heres a tip- I posted 3 clear things from his list of asks that they could have done and they are all there for everyone to see. If you aren't smart enough to find them then it ain't my job to show you.

I've repeatedly asked for a single tangible example of a single tangible thing that you would be happy for the Office of the Taoiseach to do on behalf of Paddy Cosgrave's private business.

Regarding your '3 items', you've actually not offered a single thing that the Department of the Taoiseach would do to facilitate them. You've offered the result, but not the function. Show your workings so that we might understand what you expected the Office of the Taoiseach to do for WebSummit/Paddy Cosgrave.

You've already accepted that the Office was not the avenue for any of what Paddy was looking for, why row back on it now?

I find it strange to have to re-write this post so many times. Why not just answer it?

jimmynokia

Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Red_Wake

jimmynokia wrote: »

Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.

In.

smash

jimmynokia wrote: »

Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Got an email about an hour ago to say there's only 131 tickets left!

Sure there is...

5rtytry56

smash wrote: »

Got an email about an hour ago to say there's only 131 tickets left!

Sure there is...

I'm gonna buy all 131 and then flog them on eBay with a highly inflated price. :rolleyes: as if.
Dream on Paddy.

smash

5rtytry56 wrote: »

I'm gonna buy all 131 and then flog them on eBay with a highly inflated price. :rolleyes: as if.
Dream on Paddy.

Sure you'll be loaded! There's already lots of people trying to off load their tickets on donedeal, toutless etc.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him! All while the Dail were returning from summer recess and trying to deliver a budget.

So yesterday you were moaning about me using the word conference to describe the WS and today you're moaning about me using the phrase 'senior civil servants'. Its obvious you are not aware that thats what these people are called. 'Senior civil servants' refers to the people at the top of each govt dept, it always has in Irish politics and the Irish media so just because you think it refers to county council officials doesn't make it so. 'Senior civil servants' refers to grades like Secretary General and Assistant General, aka 'the permanent govt'. To say otherwise shows your complete lack of knowledge of what a senior civil servant is.

Deleted User wrote: »

DCC prepared the draft plan. Not the Office of the Taoiseach.

Where is the evidence that anyone in the Office of the Taoiseach spent any man hours producing draft frameworks for anyone?

Ah now things are becoming clearer and now I know you haven't even read the emails between Cosgrave and the Dept of the Taoiseach. Because if you had you would know (and be able to read) the draft framework produced by none other than the Taoiseachs right hand man. For the second time in as many days your knowledge on this topic and your ability to search for it has been shown up. Yesterday you didn't know Enda had given out his phone number to executives and told them to call him, you asked me for proof and I provided it. Today its all about your claim that no-one in the Taoiseachs office spent time formulating a draft framework to engage him further, which again is false. You would have saved yourself the embarrassment if you had of just read the emails to begin with and come to the debate with adequate knowledge before you began debating it

I've repeatedly asked for a single tangible example of a single tangible thing that you would be happy for the Office of the Taoiseach to do on behalf of Paddy Cosgrave's private business.

You've already accepted that the Office was not the avenue for any of what Paddy was looking for, why row back on it now?

I find it strange to have to re-write this post so many times. Why not just answer it?

Well I'm glad to see that you managed to find out to use the search function to find the points I posted, because I sure wasn't repeating myself multiple times.

In short (and I now believe this is the 4th time I've posted this).

I think the Dept of Taoiseach
1) Should never have engaged him. But they did so it was them who put the monkey on their own back, nobody else. I've said numerous times now they should have said 'go talk to ABC, heres their number', they had this opportunity and didn't take it, instead choosing to engage him before cocking the entire thing up
2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed. I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc
3) Finally the Dept of the Taoiseach is the most powerful govt Dept full stop. They have more hard and soft power than any other dept. I think Charles Haughey showed that to be the case often enough during his time there

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed. I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc
there

By the office of the Taoiseach?

Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management issues for Paddy Cosgrave?

Yes or no?

Ridiculous how often I have had to ask this very same question so I've cut all the noise out.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

By the office of the Taoiseach?

Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

Yes or no?

Ridiculous how often I have had to ask this very same question so I've cut all the noise out.

Ah jaysis will you please take the effort to read my posts. For the 5th time they should not have engaged him, the proper thing to do was tell him 'go talk to XYZ, here's their number. Whats actually ridiculous is how often I've answered the same question- 5 times now and yet still you don't seem to get it

Have you read that draft framework that the Dept of the Taoiseach worked on for Cosgrave yet?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

So yesterday you were moaning about me using the word conference to describe the WS and today you're moaning about me using the phrase 'senior civil servants'. Its obvious you are not aware that thats what these people are called. 'Senior civil servants' refers to the people at the top of each govt dept, it always has in Irish politics and the Irish media so just because you think it refers to county council officials doesn't make it so. 'Senior civil servants' refers to grades like Secretary General and Assistant General, aka 'the permanent govt'. To say otherwise shows your complete lack of knowledge of what a senior civil servant is.

Do everyone a favour and get back in your box. You change your terminology constantly to try and make your non existing points seem in some way valid after your previous argument has fallen flat on it's face. You've been knocked back at every point in the thread and you can not admit it so you've resulted to petty insults towards other posters and throwing out allegations of begrudgery and other such nonsense when you can't take a bit of slack.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ah jaysis will you please take the effort to read my posts. For the 5th time they should not have engaged him, the proper thing to do was tell him 'go talk to XYZ, here's their number.

Can you not just answer the question? Quid Pro Quo.

Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

Yes or no?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Have you read that draft framework that the Dept of the Taoiseach worked on for Cosgrave yet?

https://files.websummit.net/correspondence.pdf

The one where they tell him who he should be contacting? That he already knew of course, this not being his first year running events in the country...

A very fair summation of their framework document is that it was a directory of the people he needed to talk to to organise his event. All information he had to hand obviously.

The very first email of substance from Nick Reddy (September 10th) says this

Nick Reddy wrote:

In this context it has to be said that some of the logistical concerns that you have raised are, fundamentally, contractual matters between you and your venue and/or service providers, where there is limited if any role for the Government.

i.e, what do you even think we can do? Which is what I've asked you to answer too...

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed.

For someone who likes to harp on about the subject, you don't seem to know a lot about what's gone on. So I'll break it down for you.

Extra Dublin Buses
He asked for this, but on top of it he also asked for specific routes to be created to collect and drop off delegates to hotels. He did not state the hotels, the routes, the projected capacity required. And not only did he want that for free, he also wanted the tax payers to subsidise free leap cards to all attendees too.

Gardai and road closures should have been provided
They are already going to be provided. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed
Roads will be re-routed as has happened for ALL large events in the RDS. Extra private buses should be paid for by PC himself. An event of 30,000 attendees does not require any additional closures or bus routes over the likes of an event like the young scientist exhibition who brought in, what was it? 59,000 people this year without any hassle!

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc

So tell me then, what the fcuk did you want the government to do about it?

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Do everyone a favour and get back in your box. You change your terminology constantly to try and make your non existing points seem in some way valid after your previous argument has fallen flat on it's face. You've been knocked back at every point in the thread and you can not admit it so you've resulted to petty insults towards other posters and throwing out allegations of begrudgery and other such nonsense when you can't take a bit of slack.

haha thats given me a laugh. You're the one who didn't know who 'senior civil servants' refers to. If you take the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases in Irish politics and media it ain't my fault. And it was you who raised it, not me.

There's plenty of begrudgery in this thread, and in Ireland in general. That might not be you but I think you're already on record as saying you hate Paddy Cosgrave. People tend to begrudge others who are successful, its pretty common in Irish discourse.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you not just answer the question? Quid Pro Quo.

Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

Yes or no?

I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him. What do you think is the logical inference from that in respect of your question that you keep asking? If they don't engage him then how the hell would they be organising an event with him? Really now :rolleyes:

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

haha thats given me a laugh. You're the one who didn't know who 'senior civil servants' refers to. If you take the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases in Irish politics and media it ain't my fault. And it was you who raised it, not me.

I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it because you have used it deliberately in an attempt to dumb the scenario because 'senior civil servants' almost sounds like he took the correct route when the reality is that it wasn't the correct route and who he was actually contacting was not just a civil servant, it was 'The Department of an Taoiseach'.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him.

See how you state this when you want it to have affect, yet you say senior civil servants when you want to paint a different picture.

Muahahaha wrote: »

There's plenty of begrudgery in this thread, and in Ireland in general. That might not be you but I think you're already on record as saying you hate Paddy Cosgrave.

Actually, I'm clearly on record saying that I don't hate him. And that I don't know him but that I dislike how he operates.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him. What do you think is the logical inference from that in respect of your question that you keep asking? If they don't engage him then how the hell would they be organising an event with him? Really now :rolleyes:

So the answer is no.

Which invalidates this

Muahahaha wrote: »

All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.

and this

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

and this

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm more interested in how our shambles of a govt spends all its time on photo opportunities in public whilst doing feck all in private to attract conferences of this size and grow the industry.

and this

Muahahaha wrote: »

So the entire thing is Paddys fault and zero blame lies with the senior civil servants who take 2 weeks to reply to important emails? Or zero blame on the politicians who have no vision and no ambition? Meanwhile the Lisbon politicians are taking plaudits for securing the WS for the next 3 years, bringing more than 100,000 people to their city. As I said Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, what city wouldn't want that amount of business?

and this

Muahahaha wrote: »

So 250,000 is good enough and we shouldn't try to improve on that? That sounds like the same attitude that the teachers who run this country have.

And I'm not sure where I said his conference is the be all and end all of anything. As I said its full of waffle. I'm just making the point that our govt missed a trick.

Tell me why it is that our government cant even show a bit of ambition and grow this industry? The WS was a template for holding large conference in the 30,000-50,000 range. Why didn't they use that to attract even more conferences of that size? Given the conferences on our shores are worth some €1bn why are we not trying to double that to €2bn?

and this

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm not for one minute suggesting that the Govt drop everything for this. But what I am saying is that they missed a trick. They could have used the WS to showcase the city and attract even bigger conferences in the years to come. There is no doubt they bring money into the economy in winter when hotels are struggling to survive. The Govt could have ran with this and tried to make an industry out of it but instead they chose to do nothing at all. Then again should we expect much more from a bunch of former teachers?

Incredible amount of work to get you to stop slinging mud where it didn't belong.
Finally we complete the circle and note that we're right back here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97454975&postcount=498
Where you were told the crux of the issue.

kidneyfan wrote: »

He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.

i.e, the Government can't help with things that the Government can't help with.

Do you still think that the Government should be blamed for not engaging in favouritism and specialist treatment? (perhaps corruption?)

Or should Paddy have organised the stuff he needed to organise?

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it because you have used it deliberately in an attempt to dumb the scenario because 'senior civil servants' almost sounds like he took the correct route when the reality is that it wasn't the correct route and who he was actually contacting was not just a civil servant, it was 'The Department of an Taoiseach'.


See how you state this when you want it to have affect, yet you say senior civil servants when you want to paint a different picture.

Ah now, I think you're losing the plot a bit. Because now you're admitting that you knew who it referred to whereas before you said you thought it was some local council officials. If you knew who it referred to, I knew and everyone else who follows Irish political discourse knows what it means then why even raise it?

I never made out that the Dept of Taoiseach and senior civil servants are not the same thing. Its not my fault if you took the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases, I really don't see why you're trying to blame me for meanings that you took out of words, I only used them in the context that they are typically used in.

And just one more thing on this- you don't have the right on here to tell any poster to stop using a phrase, so I don't know why you're trying to demand it of me. And it certainly won't work

Actually, I'm clearly on record saying that I don't hate him. And that I don't know him but that I dislike how he operates.

So you dislike 'how he operates'. Now you're attacking his modus operandi. Once he operates within the laws of the land I don't have any probems with how he wants to operate. If you do then you should stand for election and change the laws of the land to stop him operating in the way that insults you so much.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

So the answer is no.

Which invalidates this


and this

and this

and this

and this

and this

Emmet yet again the point has gone straight over your head. I don't think the DoT should have engaged him. However they did, thats the central point here. In my mind best practice was to tell him to talk to XYZ, they never did that. Once they engaged him they had a responsibility to do so in a professional and competent manner. They didn't do this, in fact they dragged their heels for several weeks before hastily preparing a draft framework at the last minute when they knew the Lisbon announcement was imminent.

If the DoT had of said go talk to the Gardai, DCC, etc I would have said fair enough, thats the correct thing to do. But they didn't do that, instead they led him up a garden path and then ignored him. This is the way the top echelons of our govt work, we have a Taoiseach who gets paiid more than the US President and who is surrounded by a phalanx of senior civil servants getting paid €150k+ and then the raft of 'special advisers' too. Why are we paying them all this money if they can't even reply to a simple email?

Are you seriously saying that the Dept of the Taoiseach acting were a competent and professional manner here?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ah now, I think you're losing the plot a bit. Because now you're admitting that you knew who it referred to whereas before you said you thought it was some local council officials.

Did I? Let me check... "You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him!"

No, no I didn't.

Muahahaha wrote: »

If you knew who it referred to, I knew and everyone else who follows Irish political discourse knows what it means then why even raise it?

Because Read my reply above.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I never made out that the Dept of Taoiseach and senior civil servants are not the same thing. Its not my fault if you took the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases, I really don't see why you're trying to blame me for meanings that you took out of words, I only used them in the context that they are typically used in.

I didn't take it up wrong, read above... again.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And just one more thing on this- you don't have the right on here to tell any poster to stop using a phrase, so I don't know why you're trying to demand it of me. And it certainly won't work

Never said I had a right. It was just an ask... or request. Like Paddy did.

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you dislike 'how he operates'. Now you're attacking his modus operandi.

Does dislike mean attack now?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Once he operates within the laws of the land I don't have any probems with how he wants to operate.

Does operating within the laws of the land mean demanding that the government do your job for you? Either way, I don't care what your answer is. No doubt it will be unclear and diluted with copious amounts of bollox.

Muahahaha wrote: »

If you do then you should stand for election and change the laws of the land to stop him operating in the way that insults you so much.

sure...

Muahahaha wrote: »

Emmet yet again the point has gone straight over your head. I don't think the DoT should have engaged him. However they did, thats the central point here. In my mind best practice was to tell him to talk to XYZ, they never did that.

Have you read the thread? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97479349&postcount=591

Muahahaha

Never said I had a right. It was just an ask... or request. Like Paddy did.

How is this a request? These are your words, not mine by the way

smash wrote: »

I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it .

So one minute you claim you 'asked' me but the proof is in the pudding right above. You came on here trying to tell me what I can and cannot say. Sorry but that doesn't cut the mustard, I believe in freedom of speech, even if you do not

You were the one who said I was using senior civil servants to refer to county council officials. It ain't my fault you confused yourself on commonly used political terms. Senior civil servants always refers to civil servants of a high rank, typically in a govt dept or quango and that is the context I used it in.

ThisRegard

Muahahaha wrote: »

So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?

You honesty can't tell the difference between grants and aid, areas within state agencies remit, and what you actually expected the taoiseach to do?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

How is this a request? These are your words, not mine by the way

Looks like a request to me.

Muahahaha wrote: »

So one minute you claim you 'asked' me but the proof is in the pudding right above. You came on here trying to tell me what I can and cannot say. Sorry but that doesn't cut the mustard, I believe in freedom of speech, even if you do not

Actually I came looking for an answer to your heavily voiced opinion and so far we've got:

The government did nothing, but I didn't want them to do anything anyway, but then again I wanted then to do something but I'm not telling you what I wanted them to do, but they should definitely have done x... oh they did do x... don't tell me what to say, derail thread, freedom of speech, rabble rabble, begrudgery, rabble rabble, derail a bit more.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You were the one who said I was using senior civil servants to refer to county council officials. It ain't my fault you confused yourself on commonly used political terms. Senior civil servants always refers to civil servants of a high rank, typically in a govt dept or quango and that is the context I used it in.

No, you're still wrong. Read what I said again. Slower, maybe...

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

Does operating within the laws of the land mean demanding that the government do your job for you? Either way, I don't care what your answer is. No doubt it will be unclear and diluted with copious amounts of bollox.

ah here you're getting personal now, a sure sign someone is losing an argment is when you do that and start telling people what they can and cannot say.

Can you show me the law that it is illegal for citizens to lobby their government? No you cannot because it doesn't exist, in fact lobbying public representatives is a key tenet of any properly functioning democracy. Thats all Cosgrave did, he lobbyied the Govt- we all have that right too so I don't know why you're criticising him for using the same rights that you or I have. Would you prefer we live under a dictatorship or something? Because once you remove that democratic right for citizens to make representations to their publically elected officials then thats where we'd end up.