Web Summit quits Dublin

Hurtbuthealing

I'm more interested in the amount of investment the Web Summit has brought in.
Year in, year out Ministers have been kicking each other out of the way to get on TV claiming how important the Web Summit is and how much it benefits Ireland in terms of Jobs and profile.
Fact is the Web Summit is a huge event, thus the international interest in attracting it.

smash

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

I'm more interested in the amount of investment the Web Summit has brought in.

You'll never know. Generally the actual levels of investment capital is kept under wraps by the investors and the start-ups, and a lot of tech dev will be outsourced.

VinLieger

Triangle wrote: »

The prices in Galway during the Volvo Ocean race were nothing but extortionate. Not that the Ocean race is gone - the hotels have lost that revenue (very short sighted imo)

Poor analogy and showing lack of knowledge about the volvo, it moves cities every race, we were lucky to get it for more than one in a row and it had nothing to do with hotels etc

grundie

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

I'm more interested in the amount of investment the Web Summit has brought in.
Year in, year out Ministers have been kicking each other out of the way to get on TV claiming how important the Web Summit is and how much it benefits Ireland in terms of Jobs and profile.
Fact is the Web Summit is a huge event, thus the international interest in attracting it.

It probably brings in a fair few quid for the hospitality sector during the week its on.

Other than that its really just a meeting place. People fly in, meet, talk, get drunk and go home. I doubt it does a lot of good in terms of inward investment. If you are looking to establish a base in a new country you would spend months or years researching your options as regards property prices, talent, taxes etc. A single conference won't have much impact on your decision.

The NEC in Birmingham is apparently worth £2bn a year to the local economy. The NEC is huge, NEC hall 1 is bigger than the whole Simmonscourt pavilion, and the NEC has 20 halls plus an arena and suites. I've heard Web summit being worth up to €100 million a year to the Dublin economy, that figure doesn't make sense when you compare it to what happens at the NEC.

These big conferences and events only really help the hospitality sector.

arayess

For Forks Sake wrote: »

There were 55000 or so people at the Aviva for the Ireland Germany game the other night, maybe the FAI should have asked for Leap cards for all of them....

funny you say that...
when i was in dortmund my ticket to the game includes the public transport to and from the game. It was a little thing that impressed me.
A very efficient process by our efficient masters.

namloc1980

arayess wrote: »

funny you say that...
when i was in dortmund my ticket to the game includes the public transport to and from the game. It was a little thing that impressed me.
A very efficient process by our efficient masters.

The match ticket price includes the train fare. You're not getting the transport for free.

Laois_Man

Glad I stumbled onto this thread. I had thought I was the only one who thought Paddy Cosgrave was a gob****e!

I'm just annoyed that the likes of RTE and Independent Newspapers are giving him the attention and publicity he's clearly seeking!

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Don't forget waiving appropriate fees, Garda escorts (have to laugh at that one), free rental of public buildings, free buses, free Leap Cards etc. And what do you want the Government to do about hotel prices. You want a centrally controlled market?

So in essence, all the items that generated income for the country in previous years should now be given for free?

I know nowt about these web summits but I listened to the interview on Matt Cooper and I do know yer man sounded like a complete bellend.

Eoin

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

I'm more interested in the amount of investment the Web Summit has brought in.
Year in, year out Ministers have been kicking each other out of the way to get on TV claiming how important the Web Summit is and how much it benefits Ireland in terms of Jobs and profile.
Fact is the Web Summit is a huge event, thus the international interest in attracting it.

There might be some investment as a result of WebSummit, but if the majority of attendees are from abroad, then it stands to reason that the majority of any investment is probably going outside the country.

It is a huge event, but I know few people who think it's actually useful other than getting a day out of the office.

For all the talk about the benefits to the economy through the tourism factor, it's easy to forget that the event itself is pretty poor.

arayess

namloc1980 wrote: »

The match ticket price includes the train fare. You're not getting the transport for free.

who knows , i don't speak German nor read it but it would strike me as very un-Germanic that those who didn't take the train had to pay for the train in their ticket.

Don't get me wrong I'm still very much on the anti - Websummit/ Cosgrave camp. The guy is a trumped up blow hard and websummit while in theory is a great thing the reality is that it's overall benefit is probably quite small.

The comments of people who actually went suggest it really was a modern day "emperors new clothes"

TallGlass

smash wrote: »

If anyone's interested in how much funding and support the state has already given Paddy, here's a nice bit of reading for you: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/web-summit-wars-heres-how-some-of-the-failte-ireland-ida-and-enterprise-ireland-871000-fees-break-down-31614601.html

Can someone explain this one to me?

2013: Lighting of Trinity College during Web Summit: €48,985 ex VAT

Who the fúck authorities this shít? Seriously. 50K on lighting from the tax payer.

smash

TallGlass wrote: »

Can someone explain this one to me?



Who the fúck authorities this shít? Seriously. 50K on lighting from the tax payer.

Sure Paddy loves trinity. He probably requested this so he could point at it from the pubs around Dame Lane and say "I went there!"

waraf

He lost a huge amount of credibility when he had to issue this very public and humiliating apology last month. Just not a likeable character at all in my eyes

smash

waraf wrote: »

He lost a huge amount of credibility when he had to issue this very public and humiliating apology last month. Just not a likeable character at all in my eyes

Wow, I missed that one. What a grade A wanker!

namloc1980

waraf wrote: »

He lost a huge amount of credibility when he had to issue this very public and humiliating apology last month. Just not a likeable character at all in my eyes

What a chancer!

kidneyfan

Sometimes you have to cut corners to get ahead.

namloc1980

kidneyfan wrote: »

Sometimes you have to cut corners to get ahead.

Yeah, who needs business ethics!

jmayo

brooke 2 wrote: »

The FAI could organise a European final in the Aviva back in 2011 during the few days the Queen was in Dublin. It was excellent, from what I hear, even down to the detail of having Gardai who could speak Portuguese stationed on duty at the exits (Oporto was playing). No histrionics from anyone and no complaints, iirc. Paddy has a lot to learn, poor chap.

Ehh sorry for being pedantic, but the team is Porto (not Oporto) and the other team was Braga which are also from Portugal.
So made a lot of sense to have Portugese speakers present.
Fair dues to them for being so thorough.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the importance of the jobs and the money that it can bring.

But that is what he was asking the Government to do. (His list of 'Asks')

Close the roads in the city centre - (asking the office of the Taoiseach to organise this)
Organise Garda escorts for VIPS - (again, asking the office of the Taoiseach to organise this)
Force the RDS to upgrade their WiFi network - (again, asking the office of the Taoiseach to organise this)
Interfere with private businesses to the extent of setting their prices - (again, asking the office of the Taoiseach to organise this)
Organise additional buses to service venues - (again, asking the office of the Taoiseach to organise this)

I can't see how any of these are acceptable things for a private business to ask the Government to organise for them so that they can make a profit.
...

I am surprised he didn't ask him to guarantee the weather. :rolleyes:
And how much was he willing to contribute to all of the above ???

But are the media actually highlighting this or highlighting all the disquiet about the whole Webt summit ?

From listening this morning some journos seem to be trying to use it as an excuse to kick the government and Kenny.

Do the journos just buy the line spun by Paddy the spoofer.

ThisRegard

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

I'm more interested in the amount of investment the Web Summit has brought in.
Year in, year out Ministers have been kicking each other out of the way to get on TV claiming how important the Web Summit is and how much it benefits Ireland in terms of Jobs and profile.
Fact is the Web Summit is a huge event, thus the international interest in attracting it.

By all accounts there's little investment, and what investment there is would be to private companies based outside of Ireland.

buck65

I couldnt give a sheet anymore.

JustTheOne

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh sorry for being pedantic, but the team is Porto (not Oporto) and the other team was Braga which are also from Portugal.
So made a lot of sense to have Portugese speakers present.
Fair dues to them for being so thorough.



I am surprised he didn't ask him to guarantee the weather. :rolleyes:
And how much was he willing to contribute to all of the above ???

But are the media actually highlighting this or highlighting all the disquiet about the whole Webt summit ?

From listening this morning some journos seem to be trying to use it as an excuse to kick the government and Kenny.

Do the journos just buy the line spun by Paddy the spoofer.

Yet we have people telling us the media is government planted by Denis o brien yada yada

brooke 2

TallGlass wrote: »

Can someone explain this one to me?



Who the fúck authorities this shít? Seriously. 50K on lighting from the tax payer.

So, that probably explains his comments 'bigging up' Trinity a few years ago.
'Free' advertising, I presume - for which we paid!!:mad:

brooke 2

kidneyfan wrote: »

Sometimes you have to cut corners to get ahead.

Greed is good.

arayess

kidneyfan wrote: »

Sometimes you have to cut corners to get ahead.

you must have worked for Sean Quinn or Anglo in a past life with that attitude

brooke 2

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh sorry for being pedantic, but the team is Porto (not Oporto) and the other team was Braga which are also from Portugal.
So made a lot of sense to have Portugese speakers present.
Fair dues to them for being so thorough.



I am surprised he didn't ask him to guarantee the weather. :rolleyes:
And how much was he willing to contribute to all of the above ???

But are the media actually highlighting this or highlighting all the disquiet about the whole Webt summit ?

From listening this morning some journos seem to be trying to use it as an excuse to kick the government and Kenny.

Do the journos just buy the line spun by Paddy the spoofer.

Haha, am not a football fan, obviously!
Just remembered the comments of some friends who had been at that match
in the Aviva and how impressed they were at the whole organisation of the event, even down to that detail of the gardai speaking Portuguese!

Heard part of Pat Kenny's interview with Adrian Weckler this morning, who, from what I heard, was sympathetic towards Paddy Cosgrave. I did not hear
all of it. Pat Kenny was scathing, though, reading out all the 'asks' from Cosgrave.

TallGlass

waraf wrote: »

He lost a huge amount of credibility when he had to issue this very public and humiliating apology last month. Just not a likeable character at all in my eyes

From the comments

FatnickMurphy
An absolute chancer with a neck like a jockey's bollockwho sells magic beans. No wonder be does so well in ireland.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

For Forks Sake

brooke 2 wrote: »

Heard part of Pat Kenny's interview with Adrian Weckler this morning, who, from what I heard, was sympathetic towards Paddy Cosgrave. I did not hear
all of it. Pat Kenny was scathing, though, reading out all the 'asks' from Cosgrave.

Weckler is a sycophant, he's probably pi55ed that he won't be getting his few days out with the 'great and good' from next year on, as the indo surely won't pay to send him to Lisbon to cover it.

Kenny was in some rare form, he drove a coach and four through Cosgraves nonsense.

Red Kev

I know feck all about tech, but I have organised events in Dublin under DCC and a good few years ago worked in various trade fairs around Europe so I'll give my 2c worth here:

This is going on the basis of 30,000 visitors over 3 days, at the ticket prices that he is charging of €625 minimum per person I would suppose that most people will spend all three days there, so lets say 25,000 per day. Most visitors are from overseas, some are Irish.

I have to say that in organising a couple of events in Dublin, I've never met anyone as helpful as DCC in holding an event. They have taken us by the hand when we knew nothing about organising an event and have guided us through the whole process, so I doubt the events section of DCC are at fault.

Here's his demands. Jesus wept this chap is deluded.

Anglesea Road closed to allow attendees free access between venues for the days of the event. As per the RDS Horse Show.

The Horse Show has 150,000 visitors over a week, so it's a decision of the Gardai and DCC to shut down a road. You can have any road in Dublin shut down for as long as you wish, there is a form available in DCC. Having a small insignificant street shut down on a Saturday is no real issue, having a major thoroughfare shut for three weekdays is a different matter. They obviously thought the numbers didn't add up. This would not be a whimsical choice, but one done after years of traffic mamagement in Dublin.

Dedicated shuttle buses provided by Dublin Bus for Web Summit attendees at peak times in the morning and evenings, to and from the RDS/City Centre, circulating to key hotels. Agree appropriate bus branding.

Temporary Dublin bike stations.
Access to the event space within Herbert Park and, in addition, to the (non-event space) Playing Fields located closest to Anglesea Rd. We would look to build marquees on these and reinstate the ground after insofar as we reasonably can.

At prices of at least €625-€4725 per person i would expect the organisers to do this along with the hotel organisers. Dublin Bus can organise shuttle buses, but to a general destination such as Sandyford DART station or the City Centre/Heuston/Connolly. It's a bit much to expect them to run to each and every hotel. This costs money, but the more you rent, the cheaper you pay per bus.

Grant road closures for Dame Court, South William Street and Fade Street for parts of our Night Summit. Waive associated fees.

Fade St and Dame Court are often shut for events, they are not major arteries, Sth William St is, but it has been shut before. If you are doing this out of major hours it's not an issue, just fill out the forms. Why they want fees waived when every other event in Dublin pays for this I don't know, especially when you consider the amount of money they are making. Refusing to pay for small stuff like this smacks of elitism and arrogance.

Grant us suspension of parking permission on the above roads for the duration of the road closures. Waive associated fees.

As above. Fill out the forms, pay the fees. Job done. Smacks of petulance.

Entrance to city venues – complimentary rental of venues such as City Hall and Wood Quay. Venues within the City.
City Centre branding for Web Summit for two weeks leading up to event and during
Outside direct responsibility

As above, all venues are available, some for a small fee, some are free. Fill out the forms, pay the cash. Job done.

Access to Garda Escort services for specific VIPs at specified times during the event. Estimated 10 such VIPs during the event. Movement, not security.

Not an issue for DCC or the Tasoiseachs office. It's solely a Garda issue so contact them. Who are the 10 VIP's, it's beginning to sound like Mr Cosgrave himself and a few of his mates. Otherwise hire a limo/chauffeur/taxi service fo the few days. Plenty of Merc S-Class taxis in Dublin for rent.


Elon Musk managed to walk and cycle around Dublin last year and had no bother whatsoever, he's worth a few billion.
(Ironically he went to Coppers and wasn't noticed, or anywhere on Harcourt St . Funny when you think of all the women who go there to get a 'good catch'.)

Airport registration of all attendees. Large space required for two/three days before the event and during the event.

Talk to Dublin Airport. They will accomodate you.

Hotel agreement – suggested voluntary anti-gouging code limiting differential from usual pricing scales.

Impossible to do, probably illegal and not going to happen. Nonsense.

Leap Cards for all attendees for their stay in the City

Paying over €600 for a ticket I would expect the organisers to get me free public transport. Chat to LUAS/DART/Dublin Bus for a discount. Stinginess on the part of the organisers IMO.


The technical aspects of the comms in RDS are also the fault of the organisers. A trade fair venue like the RDS or NEC will provide 220V/380V electricity, water, cleaning, traffic management etc etc services. Thats all. we used to do work for a major car company and had to take a backup generator for a display unit that they had as it went beyond what would normally be used in a trade fair. It's fairly simple: you tell them in advance and they accomodate you, but you must bring your own equipment for exceptional events.


Overall sounds like bad organisation and just using any excuse to get out of Dublin next year.

I think he's made a fool of himself.

smash

Great post @Red Kev, but you skipped over all the free advertising he was also looking for!

Gareth Keenan

Hotels

the Web Summit sent an email out to all attendees back in September with a huge list of hotels. They'd even gone to the trouble of categorising the kind of chap that might want to stay where - a mere coder would be in some 3 star kip on the M50, while an Entrepreneur could bed down near like minded chaps in the Westbury or similar. Anyway, point being, they had plenty of links from their website to the various hotels, most of which had very specific rates posted for the WS. Colleague of mine booked the Royal Marin Dun Laoghaire for GBP99 a night through the site, which I thought was a very good price, cheaper than their usual rate.


Public transport

Leap card should be given to attendees, I got a public transport pass for Copenhagen at VMWorld a few years back, and again for Barcelona at a Microsoft event. Dublin Bus/Irish Rail would be more than happy to accommodate a branded card I'm sure

MrMorooka

Red Kev wrote: »

...

The thing is, apparently the likes of Lisbon were willing to do all this legwork and absorb the cost. That's a very attractive offer and you can't blame someone for taking it.

Mal-Adjusted

Is there any link to the Matt cooper interview?

ClovenHoof

Dublin has a disasterous public transport system compared to Lisbon and EVERY other decent size European city. They all have complex underground rail system while governments here only release plans and reports and then do nothing.

This is the 'buses are good enough for Dublin' bull**** mantra coming back to haunt the city. Bus based cities will always have chronic traffic management issues. Put the commuters under the city centre and - the streets above are freed up of millions of commuters.

This is just the start. Dublin will continue to fall behind the rest of the world without even a basic underground rail system. The DART Underground would have been a fantastic start, but alas we have morons in power in this rustic backwater and they want to keep the entire country at the level of the the rualist GAA county colours denominator.

In years to come the cancelling of DART Underground will seen as the catastrophe it is. The disaster is already unfolding in real time.

Delegates want to get on an underground train at an airport and go direct to the conference centres. Like they do EVERYWHERE else.

This is what happens when you get rural, or small town provincial publicans, bookies, dodgy realtors and school masters for politicians and senior civil servants. You get nothing, because future vision is not their thing. Just their pensions and move back to Roscommon

Bio Mech

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Dublin has a disasterous public transport system compared to Lisbon and EVERY other decent size European city. They all have complex underground rail system while governments here only release plans and reports and then do nothing.

This is the 'buses are good enough for Dublin' bull**** mantra coming back to haunt the city. Bus based cities will always have chronic traffic management issues. Put the commuters under the city centre and - the streets above are freed up of millions of commuters.

This is just the start. Dublin will continue to fall behind the rest of the world without even a basic underground rail system. The DART Underground would have been a fantastic start, but alas we have morons in power in this rustic backwater and they want to keep the entire country at the level of the the rualist GAA county colours denominator.

In years to come the cancelling of DART Underground will seen as the catastrophe it is. The disaster is already unfolding in real time.

Delegates want to get on an underground train at an airport and go direct to the conference centres. Like they do EVERYWHERE else.

This is what happens when you get rural, or small town provincial publicans, bookies, dodgy realtors and school masters for politicians. You get nothing, because future vision is not their thing. Just their pensions.

Nonsense. There are far more "decent" sized European cites that have no underground rail link to their airports than those that do. Quite a diatribe though.

Red Kev

MrMorooka wrote: »

The thing is, apparently the likes of Lisbon were willing to do all this legwork and absorb the cost. That's a very attractive offer and you can't blame someone for taking it.

If you're organising a summit with 30000 attendees this is a very minor part of it.

It honestly looks like he wanted out of Dublin for financial reasons and picked up on any small thing to get out of it.

Most of the things on his list costa few thousand, nothing compared to the income he's making. It's a bit more than just getting the city to organise it. The events management crowd that he got in should be doing that in their sleep.

An earlier poster said he got a €400,000 system in for the internet and communications when he should have spent nearer to €1,000,000.

If he's skimping on the most vital part of the show then there's something seriously wrong.

ThisRegard

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

Hotels



Public transport

Leap card should be given to attendees, I got a public transport pass for Copenhagen at VMWorld a few years back, and again for Barcelona at a Microsoft event. Dublin Bus/Irish Rail would be more than happy to accommodate a branded card I'm sure

Who pays?

awec

He repeated in his emails that he "wasn't looking for a penny".

Thats a bit disingenuous of him, he may not have wanted the government to throw money at him but he wanted various organisations and public bodies to give him things for free.

awec

ThisRegard wrote: »

Who pays?

Web Summit should pay. They should negotiate a discounted rate with Transport for Ireland.

ClovenHoof

Bio Mech wrote: »

Nonsense. There are far more "decent" sized European cites that have no underground rail link to their airports than those that do. Quite a diatribe though.

That's not true. Not true at all in 2015.

You are a classic example why this country is heading in the wrong direction.

ThisRegard

awec wrote: »

Web Summit should pay. They should negotiate a discounted rate with Transport for Ireland.

Exactly. But that eejit wanted it coming out of the state coffers.

smash

Red Kev wrote: »

If he's skimping on the most vital part of the show then there's something seriously wrong.

The fact that there was no web at the web summit was a running joke and a clear indication that it wasn't being managed correctly. Between that, the bad press he's got from startups and the bad rep he's got for how he treats his volunteers, I'm honestly surprised he has a projected forecast of 30k attendees.

Eoin

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Delegates want to get on an underground train at an airport and go direct to the conference centres. Like they do EVERYWHERE else.

But that's not the case everywhere else. Because of their size, the centres often in the outskirts of the city, if not even further out - and you've to get a shuttle or taxi just like here.

namloc1980

At the prices Paddy is charging for tickets surely he could've thrown in a Leap Card with €20 credit with each one. But of course he'd prefer the taxpayer to pick up the tab.

diomed

If this thing is in Lisbon for a number of years does that mean we won't hear about it again? Fingers crossed.

steddyeddy

Is this guy for real? The pharm sector accounts for one of our biggest exports in Ireland and Ireland is one of the biggest exporters of pharmaceuticals in Europe. It employs huge amounts of our third level graduates and is worth billions.

One of the guys who funded a lab I used to be a PhD in started three biotech companies, invested heavily in UCD and the Irish economy. He also helps organise the grad fair. He says the government bend over backwards for him and really go out of their way to make things run smoothly. This web summit guy seems to have delusions of grandeur. 100 million really isn't that much in terms of the fast growing Irish economy and he should learn his place in the pecking order.

The guys who run places like Grange Castle (pharm plant) don't ask for nearly as much as this guy and they give back several orders of magnitude back into the economy.

grundie

MrMorooka wrote: »

The thing is, apparently the likes of Lisbon were willing to do all this legwork and absorb the cost. That's a very attractive offer and you can't blame someone for taking it.

A lot of European cities have invested in big exhibitions venues over the last few decades. These are expensive to build and maintain and there isn't enough business to go round. Birmingham City Council sold the NEC because it wasn't making a big enough profit to help pay off their debts.

The only way to fill these spaces is to subsidise them, Lisbon needed the business so gave in to Paddy Cosgraves demands. Dublin didn't need the the business as much.

The RDS is a great venue for its size. It can handle 30,000 people per day. It has a great selection of halls from old to new, its got a stadium, concert hall, animal handling facilities, close to public parks and its in the middle of all the important embassies. Plus its close to the city centre with plenty of pubs, restaurants and cultural stuff nearby.

Dublin can go after the events that fit in the RDS or convention centre and make them extra special. Let the rest of Europe go after the huge events that need to be subsidised.

Gareth Keenan

ThisRegard wrote: »

Who pays?

Websummit does, sorry, I wasn't clear. Up to them if they are be able to negotiate a discount. I see tourist Leap cards advertised in the airport for €19.50 for 3 days. If you buy 30,000 of them you might get a few quid knocked off :cool:

I wouldn't want to be behind you in the airport Spar while you are buying them mind...

smash

But grundie, 30,000 people over a few days is not a big event.

steddyeddy

grundie wrote: »

A lot of European cities have invested in big exhibitions venues over the last few decades. These are expensive to build and maintain and there isn't enough business to go round. Birmingham City Council sold the NEC because it wasn't making a big enough profit to help pay off their debts.

The only way to fill these spaces is to subsidise them, Lisbon needed the business so gave in to Paddy Cosgraves demands. Dublin didn't need the the business as much.

The RDS is a great venue for its size. It can handle 30,000 people per day. It has a great selection of halls from old to new, its got a stadium, concert hall, animal handling facilities, close to public parks and its in the middle of all the important embassies. Plus its close to the city centre with plenty of pubs, restaurants and cultural stuff nearby.

Dublin can go after the events that fit in the RDS or convention centre and make them extra special. Let the rest of Europe go after the huge events that need to be subsidised.

There's subsidising and then there's closing off streets for private pub crawls, asking for armed escorts and directly requesting the leader of a country do something about hotel prices for you.

Muahahaha

smash wrote: »

But grundie, 30,000 people over a few days is not a big event.

Endas office said it was worth €108m to the economy per year, over 10 years it would have generated over €1bn. Its wrong to say its not a big event, it is one of the biggest of its kind