Well over asking price and seller refuses

TearFairy

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

mariaalice

TearFairy wrote: »

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

Asking under what they expect to get is a tactic to generate viewings.

I know you are frustrated, but you are personalising it too much, there will be other houses that are close to work and close to family, if you had to email in your bids its indicates the EA is professional in their job so possible not messing you around. I would say the seller has come across the information that you are very keen on the house and that what making them hold out.

Until you have paid the deposit on a house keep looking even when you are bidding on a particular house and do it with the same EA that's selling the house you want, keep a polite professional relationship going with the EA.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well then just give them a time frame. You're the one with the cash in your pocket. "This offer is on the table until Wednesday evening", and if it's not accepted, withdraw it. You're not asking for the house for free. He is not going to come back to you in a months time and say "yeah I can't get anything more for it, it's yours".

pink_polkadot

A very long discussion over something very simple:

-Asking price is an unreliable indicator of what people think the house might go for.
-A house is worth what someone will pay for it.
-If someone doesnt want to sell, its their prerogative. You cannot force them to sell just as you cannot be forced to buy.
-If after discussions they are still looking for more than you are willing to bid, then move on.

mariaalice

3DataModem wrote: »

I think we should move to the Scottish system, done through solicitors (not EAs) and where you can price your house on a "first offer that meets it" basis.

I though the Scottish system was offers over the asking an important difference as you are trying to guess what the other bidder are doing it would not make the system more transparent although it would be a simpler.

sbsquarepants

It is a bit of a pain in the arse but that's just how it goes I'm afraid. There are some countries where if you advertise your house for sale at a certain price you are legally bound to accept the first offer you receive at that price - doesn't matter if the following day you're offered double you must take the first offer.
The theory is it stops estate agents artificially bumping prices but I doubt it works in reality, they probably just price it at the upper end and then let the bidders play out their game anyway.

Pac2015

This has happened to a house where I live too, its on for 390K and there is an offer on the table for 410K from some very interested people and the house needs repair and renovation has been on the market for close to 3 years now as the couple seperated and its not worth more then what is being offered but they are refusing this offer ( its not from me but someone I know ) as I think they feel they can get alot more but as I said maybe in the boom they could have but not now.
They really need to decide on their priorities and stop wasting people's time.

davo10

pink_polkadot wrote: »

A very long discussion over something very simple:

-Asking price is an unreliable indicator of what people think the house might go for.
-A house is worth what someone will pay for it.
-If someone doesnt want to sell, its their prerogative. You cannot force them to sell just as you cannot be forced to buy.
-If after discussions they are still looking for more than you are willing to bid, then move on.

Exactly right. But the problem is that we tend to get emotional about property rather than looking at it as a business transaction like any other. If a petrol station is charging more than other places, we don't buy there unless we either don't care or we need it there and then, but we don't get emotionally attached about petrol and we don't go around feeling dicked around, we just move on. Yet op you feel that a price advertised should be the price paid, that I'm afraid is a double edged sword as it implies that you should also not be able to buy at below that price, you can't have it both ways so start looking at this as a business transaction or an auction whereby th seller sets the reserve that must be met and only the highest bid will be successful unless you are a cash buyer.

TearFairy

Pac2015 that's just unreal, having the house on the market that long - unless they are renting it out or happy enough to live there for now is just crazy!

Look I am not taking it personally and I know it happens was just looking for advice as to whether people think its still possible we will get this house or should we walk away. Of course I know we have to decide for ourselves at the end of the day

pink_polkadot - not a terribly long discussion but a discussion none the less on a board that is set up to have this type of discussion on! What maybe 'simple' to some is very important to others - ie spending or trying to spend a few hundred thousand on a property in order to provide a home for our family. Of course though all you say is true, if he doesn't want to sell to us he won't

FAILSAFE 00

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time. EA are so used to the ole "We are looking at another property" line. Play some hard ball.

My guess is the owner wants to use your offer has leverage to get a better deal.

TearFairy

But in other areas of business this kind of thing wouldn't be tolerated. if I went into a garage to pay for petrol and get to the till only to be told the price advertised isn't what I was now paying I'd be rightly p++sed off! I do understand its a business transaction, they want to make money and as much as possible. But all I am saying is there has to be some way to stop genuine people from having a month of their time wasted.

davo10

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time. EA are so used to the ole "We are looking at another property" line. Play some hard ball.

My guess is the owner wants to use your offer has leverage to get a better deal.

This the best one yet, offer not accepted so that means you should offer less. All this when there is a severe shortage of houses and rents are going through the roof. Brilliant.

TearFairy

Failsafe - im sure he does want to use our offer. But I also think the fact its advertised at X price but when people call or view are told its actually that much over the asking price maybe putting people off.

Pac2015

TearFairy wrote: »

Pac2015 that's just unreal, having the house on the market that long - unless they are renting it out or happy enough to live there for now is just crazy!

Look I am not taking it personally and I know it happens was just looking for advice as to whether people think its still possible we will get this house or should we walk away. Of course I know we have to decide for ourselves at the end of the day

pink_polkadot - not a terribly long discussion but a discussion none the less on a board that is set up to have this type of discussion on! What maybe 'simple' to some is very important to others - ie spending or trying to spend a few hundred thousand on a property in order to provide a home for our family. Of course though all you say is true, if he doesn't want to sell to us he won't

The house is empty and getting more into disrepair as the months go on they think they will get more money for it yet have it on at a certain price there is land with it and its in Dublin so they think they will get the prices from the boom for it obviously they paid too much problem is they wont as its not worth it anymore.

My advice to you would be to start looking around for another house, leave your offer on the table and say thats the max you will go and leave the ball in their court but make it clear you are now looking at other properties as the vendor is wasting your time.

TearFairy

We are looking at other properties and I have been in touch with the same EA about another viewing he has. He brought up this property and said he would be in touch regarding it, I just said yeah fine. I think maybe we will do/say nothing for now and just assume its a non runner!

FAILSAFE 00

TearFairy wrote: »

Failsafe - im sure he does want to use our offer. But I also think the fact its advertised at X price but when people call or view are told its actually that much over the asking price maybe putting people off.

The only bidder on the property and 27k over asking. The OP has more power than they think. The idea is to create the illusion of their only offer slowly melting away due to holding out. Go in with the mentality of "OMG not enough houses" you are going to get ****ed as a buyer.

Pac2015

TearFairy wrote: »

We are looking at other properties and I have been in touch with the same EA about another viewing he has. He brought up this property and said he would be in touch regarding it, I just said yeah fine. I think maybe we will do/say nothing for now and just assume its a non runner!

Good idea you dont want to miss out on other properties that might suit by holding out for this one.
You could put a time limit on the offer and say after that you will take it off the table and in the meantime look for something else that way you are not stressed waiting to hear back from the EA on this particular property.

DrPhilG

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time.

That's exactly what I was about to say!

Drop the offer by €5k per week. It's all well and good them thinking that the OP is the safe bet while they try to wangle something better elsewhere.

If that safe bet is steadily dwindling then it's time to shlt or get off the pot.

runawaybishop

TearFairy wrote: »

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

You were bidding on it for a few weeks? So there is another bidder, the seller clearly sees that there is demand for his property and his asking price was too low (tactic or not). You really really need to take the emotion out of this, it is purely a business transaction and nonsense about "fairness" and comparing it to selling petrol has absolutely no place.

Decide what you are willing to pay and make that offer, stick a time limit of a week or 2 on it. Be prepared to walk away.

TearFairy

Runaway there were several bidders, the last one dropped off over a week ago. Im guess they walked away because the price got too high to a)be either to afford it or b) it gone up to more than they think its worth. Of course these things can go on for a few weeks, we bid on a Monday - it could be Tuesday or Wednesday before next bidder responds, another few days and we come back etc. That quickly adds up to a few weeks!

I dont think we are getting emotionally involved as such but jesus guys we are looking to spend a few hundred thousand on it, live in it for the rest of our lives hopefully (would not like to go through this process again!!) and I don't think its too much to ask for a bit of respect or fairness or whatever in the process. But its stressful and time consuming and I posted here to vent, get advice etc so cheers everyone

We never stopped looking at other houses, I am very aware that even sale agreed mean s++t until you have the keys in your hand

bleary

Look this is about the same as someone with no solid mortgage approval bidding on a house and then melting away when contracts actually have to be signed and the money committed to. Suddenly they are trying to reduce the price because they haven't the finance for the house. It's the same messing , very frustrating for you. There really should be some sort of cost to people who do this

Barely There

TearFairy wrote: »

I know this happens all the time but its incredibly unfair.

It's not though.

runawaybishop

TearFairy wrote: »

Runaway there were several bidders, the last one dropped off over a week ago. Im guess they walked away because the price got too high to a)be either to afford it or b) it gone up to more than they think its worth. Of course these things can go on for a few weeks, we bid on a Monday - it could be Tuesday or Wednesday before next bidder responds, another few days and we come back etc. That quickly adds up to a few weeks!

I dont think we are getting emotionally involved as such but jesus guys we are looking to spend a few hundred thousand on it, live in it for the rest of our lives hopefully (would not like to go through this process again!!) and I don't think its too much to ask for a bit of respect or fairness or whatever in the process. But its stressful and time consuming and I posted here to vent, get advice etc so cheers everyone

We never stopped looking at other houses, I am very aware that even sale agreed mean s++t until you have the keys in your hand

Several bidders indicates demand, so the owner may believe the house can command more, hence him holding out. Would it be "fair" if his house was sold for less than it was worth because demand was underestimated?

"I dont think we are getting emotionally involved as such but" :pac:

No buts, like you said its a huge transaction, you need your business head firmly on. Its definitely stressful and time consuming, but do not let your emotions force you into making a mistake.

Mesrine65

I recently offered the asking price on a 2 bedrooom cottage with 1 acre of land, cash money & the offer was accepted.

Went to sign papers etc., & the estate agent said the seller was asking for another €20K as he received another offer...

I withdrew my offer & let my feet & €'s do the talking, no regrets.

6 weeks later, the estate agent contacts me & informs me the seller is now willing to accept my original offer.

I inform the estate agent that my offer was a one-time deal & if the seller still wants to sell he will have to drop his price by €10k for my inconvenience.

House is still on the market & no takers at this time.

I'm a patient, stubborn man & there are other properties I'm looking at...

The game is afoot

Archaeoliz

mariaalice wrote: »

I though the Scottish system was offers over the asking an important difference as you are trying to guess what the other bidder are doing it would not make the system more transparent although it would be a simpler.

I lived in Edinburgh for four years and bought and sold a flat there. Prices are either offers over or fixed price. That means what it says. When you see a house you want to buy you place a 'note of interest' with the solicitor (who is also the Estate Agent; but governed more rigorously because he has his/her Law Society membership to think of). When sufficient notes of interest are received (or when it's apparent that there aren't going to be any more) a closing date is set. All interested parties put in their best and final offer (sealed bids) which will include when they want to get the keys and whether there are any conditions, namely if the offer is subject to survey or if a survey has already been completed.

The day of the closing date, the solicitor opens the sealed bids, tells the vendor and they choose the best one for them which could be a lower one with a better closing date and a survey already completed. When you accept the offer it's binding.

I really feel the OP's frustration. An asking price should be just that - what they're asking for it. Management of expectation.

Tiddlypeeps

TearFairy wrote: »

Failsafe - im sure he does want to use our offer.

Why not put a time limit on it so he can't do this so? His only hope of getting a higher offer is if yours is still on the table when someone else comes looking (assuming interest in the house at that price point has actually dried up). The prospect of losing that leverage might be enough for them to settle.

kupus

tear fairy... you need to step away for a while, you are taking this very personal. Its not. When you take it personal, your emotions change. and you become irrational. You start making strange decisions and EA can sense this and push you further into spending extra money needlessly.

The fact is now its a sellers market. And they have the upper hand, its not long ago the shoe was on the other foot and you could buy for a lot cheaper.
but that doesnt help you now, so stop thinking about what you could have got it for. and maybe invest your time in looking for something else.

audi12

TearFairy wrote: »

Hi guys,

We have been bidding on a house for over 3 weeks, we are now the only bidders left and the price is 27K over the price. Spoke to EA who said the seller thinks he can get more and has refused our offer. He said he advised him to take our offer, it was a fair price etc

I know this happens all the time but its incredibly unfair. The house was on at a price (possibly slightly underpriced no doubt to get people interested) but our offer is more than fair given the location, work its needs doing etc.
I understand the seller is out to make as much as possible but there really sure be some sort of ethics and fairness to this process!

As much as it galls me because I don't want to give him a penny now given he is being greedy we are just left in limbo and are leaving our offer on the table. Obviously we will keep looking at other houses but I guess there is nothing else we can do regarding this house? We wont withdraw our offer because we do want the house and hope he doesn't get anymore bids in but the seller said he is prepared to risk us withdrawing our offer for the chance of getting a higher one. Should we just forget the house??

27 k over and no other bidders lord just the esate agent must love you

audi12

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I've no problem with what the seller is doing. He suspects you are desperate.

What I would do is ring the EA, drop your offer by as much as possible, what was the offer from the last remaining other bidder and say it is on the table until next Wednesday. Then don't contact them again unless you are willing to give them your first born child.

couldent agree more esate agent cant believe his luck 27k over the asking price ffs

Larbre34

Eff that nonsense, ring EA back, tell him you're now offering AP +€10k and it expires Midday Monday, then you are gone. Don't be anyone's pawn.