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Well over asking price and seller refuses

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    #92
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,332 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    A lot of people are assuming that the Estate Agent is fabricating the "other bids".

    That may be the case, or it may not.

    I suspected the same thing when I was bidding on my own house. Asking price was €135k. I lowballed at €110k. A few weeks of back and forth with another bidder and eventually we drew the line at asking price. The other bidder pulled out, we got the house.

    I always wondered if the other bidder had actually existed or if the EA shafted us out of the extra money, until my wife met the other bidder...

    She got a taxi home one day and the driver was gobsmacked when he pulled up. Told her that he had been bidding on that same house but pulled out at the last minute.

    Small world...


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    #93
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    TearFairy wrote:
    Wow guys, lots of assumptions going on here. First off, I am not a 'he' but in fact a she - possibly not relevant. Second of all, I happen to know the area very well where the house is, I have said several times the house was underpriced to begin with. Most houses in that location go for in and around 15 - 20k more than the asking price so I certainly expected to pay more than it was priced at. Next I have also stated that there was myself and two other bidders - I didn't ram the price up all by myself. Yes I agree totally that you cant believe the EA - we have dealt with him on another property where it was down to us and another bidder. At their highest offer we walked away because we had a price we decided the house was worth and stuck to it and it was 16k less than we are willing to pay for this house because it wasn't as big and needed more work. That house went sale agreed two days after and was taken off the market. So I can only presume the EA was telling the truth and the other bidder got the house So despite some of the opinions here that we are being mugs offering 27k over the asking price we aren't. As I say I know the market in this area very well and I think the seller is getting about 7-10k bonus for his house which I am happy to pay as it ticks all the boxes. I don't think that makes me not savy or too emotionally involved - it makes me willing to pay that because our quality of life would be greatly improved living in that area. We are not prepared to be ripped off however and like I say we walked away from another house not too far away but in an even more preferable location

    That makes it sound like you have only gone over the market value or what the real asking price should have been by €7k.
    You already know what it should have started pricing at and no doubt the seller does too hence he is thinking he should be able to get more.

    If you think it is unfair then send EBay an email complaining about all the tens of thousands of items on sale that start with asking prices that don't reflect their plausible sale price too.


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    #94
    Livefornow
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Livefornow


    A few years ago a friend was in a bidding war for a 3 - bed semi. Asking price was €234,000, my pal gave up when outbid at €247k. EA said other party had bid €250k. Pal was very disappointed as location, house etc were perfect for his needs.

    6 weeks later EA calls and said seller was willing to accept €247k as other bidder had been unable to finance deal and seller was stranded having bought new house and needed to sell urgently. My pal said he would love to do a deal but was only willing to pay original asking price of €234k. EA said but you bid €247k before to which my pal said that was then and this is now. If they need to sell asap I'll buy at €234k.

    He got the house for €234k

    My advice would be to withdraw offer and forget about the house. The seller is in a great position while you are in the room. Leave the bidding room and let them come looking for you.


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    #95
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    Livefornow wrote: »
    A few years ago a friend was in a bidding war for a 3 - bed semi. Asking price was €234,000, my pal gave up when outbid at €247k. EA said other party had bid €250k. Pal was very disappointed as location, house etc were perfect for his needs.

    6 weeks later EA calls and said seller was willing to accept €247k as other bidder had been unable to finance deal and seller was stranded having bought new house and needed to sell urgently. My pal said he would love to do a deal but was only willing to pay original asking price of €234k. EA said but you bid €247k before to which my pal said that was then and this is now. If they need to sell asap I'll buy at €234k.

    He got the house for €234k

    My advice would be to withdraw offer and forget about the house. The seller is in a great position while you are in the room. Leave the bidding room and let them come looking for you.

    If the example you've given is to add weight to your opinion offered, then the opinion should be ignored by the original poster.

    The seller is a landlord with multiple properties and in no hurry to sell. His hand can't be forced, as you suggest from the above


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    #96
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    The seller is a landlord with multiple properties and in no hurry to sell. His hand can't be forced, as you suggest from the above

    Why do you say that? The LL put the property up for sale, was he bored some morning? He may want to sell, but thinks he can squeeze more out by holding out a little longer. He may be more experienced than the OP, but that doesn't preclude her from trying her own strategy.

    I personally would drop my offer at this stage and actively seek another property.


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    #97
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Why do you say that? The LL put the property up for sale, was he bored some morning? He may want to sell, but thinks he can squeeze more out by holding out a little longer. He may be more experienced than the OP, but that doesn't preclude her from trying her own strategy.

    If you read my post in its full context, the situation i was replying to does not exist for the original poster so i asked her to discount this post.

    Where does the original poster say or imply that the seller is in a hurry to sell? The seller is happy to have a few rounds of counter bidding going on for a few weeks - is this the behaviour of a seller that is in a hurry to sell and will accept a reduced offer?
    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    I personally would drop my offer at this stage and actively seek another property.

    Not great advice really. The current situaton is - seller wants to maximise selling price from a buyer who accepts that its a fair price


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    #98
    TearFairy
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭TearFairy


    Again I can only take the EA at his word and the seller isn't in a hurry and is happy to wait. the last property we bid on the EA told me they were looking to close as quickly as possible and they did - house went 10% over the asking price thats when we pulled out as wasn't worth anymore than that.

    We have two viewings today, at no point have I indicated we were hanging on waiting for this property, I just wanted peoples opinion on our chances of the seller accepting our offer if no higher offers come in. I wont be contacting the EA regarding this house again, he said he will update me. I have since contacted the office about another property, this EA will also be showing it.

    I gave my opinion on the process - again doesn't make me over emotionally involved. It makes me have very little time for all the p++sing about that goes on! All I said was it too much to ask for the seller to be upfront about the price he actually wants. If we had of been told 3 weeks ago when we expressed an interested that he wants infact X amount we would have said no, we wont be paying that and left it.

    Also whether people like it or not of course when you start bidding on a property the EA and seller know you're interested. Its not a flipping pair of shoes you can return if you decided you don't like them. Most of us trying to buy a house think very long and hard about what we want and given the amount we spend on it and we will be living in it we don't enter the process lightly but I really don't get the playing it cool and let on you don't care one way or another. At no point have I had more than a few minutes conversation with the EA and that was to either be updated by them or us placing another bid. But its not rocket science on their part to know we are interested and want the house. I have also made it clear we have a price in mind that we are willing to pay(don't tell them what that is until we have reached it) - we decided after a couple of viewings and we don't go over that. But again so many assumption on my thread on what I have said/done/acted etc.

    I stand by my feelings on the process, I would be bidding on a property if I didn't have the money to follow through on it and if I did im pretty sure the EA and seller would be pretty peeved off at having their time wasted so Id rather not have mine wasted bidding on a property that is falsely advertised!! And I am not in any shape or form taking it personally!!!


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    #99
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    <mod snip >

    While I sympathise that you find the whole process draining, I disagree with your point of view.

    The only part of the process that needs to be improved is the stage of going sale agreed .From here a contract to buy and sell must be binding with the forfeiture of a deposit for the negligent party if it fails to complete beyond this. Anything before this stage is not necessary. People should be able to market and sell or agree to sell a product/commodity/asset at any price they feel and have no legal obligation on them to do this. The market dictates whether they are right or wrong to do this, not a regulator or a legislative body


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    #100
    TearFairy
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭TearFairy


    Barely Hedged I agree people should be able to sell at whatever price they want, I never disputed this guy and all other sellers are out to make as much as they can and I don't blame them for that. Its advertising it at a price they have no intention of accepting that is annoying. I cant see why they cant just advertise at the price they want for the house, if its too high and they don't get any takers then they may have to reduce. If its lower than what people are willing to pay then happy days if bids push up the price and they make a bit more.


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    #101
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Barely Hedged wrote: »

    Not great advice really. The current situaton is - seller wants to maximise selling price from a buyer who accepts that its a fair price

    Wow, profound insight there.

    The buyer thinks she's overpaying (read her posts), and increased her offer because of her particular circumstances. All the other bidders have dropped out.

    The seller is hoping to squeeze more out of the remaining bidder. It's hardly the first time this has happened in the history or real estate sales.

    The buyer needs to send a message she's not playing that game. IMHO.


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    #102
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    TearFairy wrote: »
    Barely Hedged I agree people should be able to sell at whatever price they want, I never disputed this guy and all other sellers are out to make as much as they can and I don't blame them for that. Its advertising it at a price they have no intention of accepting that is annoying. I cant see why they cant just advertise at the price they want for the house, if its too high and they don't get any takers then they may have to reduce. If its lower than what people are willing to pay then happy days if bids push up the price and they make a bit more.

    You say you accept market forces to determine a price but the post above seems to suggest you fail to recognise that you form the large part of the micro market that is determining the price of this house.


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    #103
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Wow, profound insight there.

    The buyer thinks she's overpaying (read her posts), and increased her offer because of her particular circumstances. All the other bidders have dropped out.

    The seller is hoping to squeeze more out of the remaining bidder. It's hardly the first time this has happened in the history or real estate sales.

    The buyer needs to send a message she's not playing that game. IMHO.

    The people bidding on the property so far have dropped out - not all the bidders that you have convinced yourself of.

    The property has been on the market three weeks. Not a very long time. The seller is more than entitled to give it a few more weeks to see if anybody steps forward and he believes so. Why does he believe that - a sellers market in the area the original poster is looking in. He'd be stupid to take it off the market after 3 weeks.

    Sure it's not even sale agreed. It a still in the price determination stage and your telling the original poster to walk away from a house she really wants to buy at a price she thinks is fair. That's bad advice if ever I heard it


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    #104
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    your telling the original poster to walk away from a house she really wants to buy at a price she thinks is fair. That's bad advice if ever I heard it

    I'm giving the buyer a lot more credit here than you.


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    #105
    Senecio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Senecio


    TearFairy wrote: »
    ...My question was did anyone think we might still get the house at this price or should we forget it.

    If this was your original intent for the thread then we could have ended it 5 pages ago. Its very clear that the vendor will not sell it to you at the current high bid. Their expectation of it's worth and yours are different. They don't seem under any pressure to sell so they will not accept anything less than the value they have in their mind. If you're not prepared to meet their expectation of its value then you need to walk away.


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    #106
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Senecio wrote: »
    If this was your original intent for the thread then we could have ended it 5 pages ago. Its very clear that the vendor will not sell it to you at the current high bid. Their expectation of it's worth and yours are different. They don't seem under any pressure to sell so they will not accept anything less than the value they have in their mind. If you're not prepared to meet their expectation of its value then you need to walk away.
    And this is exactly the problem the OP has, the OP is not a mind reader and has just had their time wasted


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    #107
    TearFairy
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭TearFairy


    Senecio - if you read my original post I am asking people for their opinions on whey they think of my particular situation or any words of wisdom. Whatever 'intent' you read into that, so be it.

    Yes I am willing to overpay slightly - not to the point where we are being ripped off because we have weighed up our options and its worth the extra few thousand not have to get up at 5am every morning and spend 2 1/2 hours a day commuting and barely seeing my child and husband and not to mention the money we both spend commuting to work. Aside from that, we know and like the area(its a very popular area and houses are not plentiful) our families are near by, the potential to extend is great and having a back garden for our little one is all worth an extra 7-10k. So some of you may feel that makes me a mug, not savvy, etc but I'm ok with that :-)


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    #108
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note

    Please bear in mind the A&P charter when posting. If you have an issue with a post please use the report post function rather than responding on thread.


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    #109
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Op, your issue is that the vendor put it on the market at a certain price, you have exceeded that price and you are put out that he now won't sell it to you for what you have offered. So the advertised price is the issue. You are assuming that the advertised price is what it is worth and if met, the owner should be compelled to sell. Like others and at the risk of getting an infraction, I think you don't understand how the market works and you are showing a lot of naivety.

    A house purchase is not like a car purchase where the advertised price is the price you pay. Supply and demand is different than for mass produced items and emotion plays a big part. Different people have different budgets and values are subjective. The owner and the buyer come to the table with intentions which are polar opposites, one wants to gain as much as possible, the other to pay as little as possible. The EA is just a facilitator who works solely for the benefit of the seller. The price the home actually sells for has nothing to do with the advertised price in that the "worth" or "value" of the house is set by the highest bidder only, no other bid matters other than the highest and from that point on, that it what that house is worth until it sells again or something very similar sells in the same area for a lower or higher price. The seller has every right to wait, he has had multiple bidders and three weeks is a short bidding time so he is right to wait, I would and so would you when your time comes to sell unless you like giving away money.


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    #110
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    The vendor and/or agent were trying to be too clever. Much like the people who start bidding without approval.

    They've wasted everyone's time with this.

    OP is right to be annoyed tbh.


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    #111
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    gosplan wrote: »
    The vendor and/or agent were trying to be too clever.

    They've wasted everyone's time with this.

    OP is right to be annoyed tbh.

    How so and why?

    Multiple bidders pushed the price up not the seller and now he thinks he can get more, it would not be too clever if the seller sold below what another bidder is willing to pay.

    The op can be annoyed or disappointed if she misses out or has to pay more than she wants to pay but there can only be one buyer so someone is bound to be annoyed.


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    #112
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    The seller may have put it on the market at a price to entice initial interest. A bidding war is exactly what is needed to push the price upwards. That has happened over the last three weeks.
    The seller isn't in a hurry & in his shoes I would also give it another couple of weeks to make sure I had the best price achievable.

    It's a torture being the highest bidder when the price has gone over asking. It's understandable that the OP wants to get closure but unfortunately its a game of brinkmanship & does take time to reach its conclusion. We first viewed a house about this time last year & went sale agreed at the end of October. It was hard waiting & to stop speculating on the intentions of the seller & other bidders.

    Take a deep breath & just wait it out. If this house ticks lots of boxes & would reduce the commuting hardship I can easily see that a premium of €7-€10k is worth it. The OP walked away from another house that went above what she perceived to be value.

    It's just a process that takes time - don't look on it like you've wasted three weeks - you haven't. You want the house at the best price you can get it for & the seller wants to sell at the highest possible price. Hopefully that'll end in agreement between you. Deep breath!


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    #113
    haveringchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭haveringchick


    Leave the offer there OP but walk away and genuinely look for something else.
    Your disappointed and frustrated but that's all part of the business of buying and selling houses. In Ireland at the moment the suffering is all on the buyer due to the shortage of housing.
    Neither the EA or the seller have been unfair here . He or she is perfectly entitled to seek the best possible price and the EA is contractually obliged to do his or her best to secure that.
    It's a perfectly allowable tactic to advertise the house at a low price to attract customers. A lot of buyers experienced in the game would have been suspicious from the outset . You'll know the next time.
    Leave the bid there. You could very well get a call in a month or so to say it's yours at that price but do not offer another penny. Good luck


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    #114
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    davo10 wrote: »
    How so and why?

    Multiple bidders pushed the price up not the seller and now he thinks he can get more, it would not be too clever if the seller sold below what another bidder is willing to pay.

    The op can be annoyed or disappointed if she misses out or has to pay more than she wants to pay but there can only be one buyer so someone is bound to be annoyed.

    I was going on the basis that refusal ment refusal. It seems it actually means 'playing the field for a bit longer'.

    Like asking price means 'reserve'.


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    #115
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    davo10 wrote: »
    Multiple bidders pushed the price up not the seller and now he thinks he can get more, it would not be too clever if the seller sold below what another bidder is willing to pay.

    Using this logic the seller would be foolish to ever accept a bid :D


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    #116
    Riverireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Riverireland


    I'd walk away from this one unless there is nothing else in the area coming on the market. I know a few people buying and selling at the minute and there seems to be a lot of houses on the market but not at a price that the vendor is willing to sell at.


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    #117
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Using this logic the seller would be foolish to ever accept a bid :D

    Or of course he can always accept the highest bid when the bidding has stopped, right now he is waiting to see if in fact the bidding has stopped, risky but nothing wrong with it.


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    #118
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I've seen houses overpriced by 100k sit for years and fall into a terrible state because the seller won't sell. On a smaller scale adverts is littered with ads asking for higher then new prices, for used and even broken items. They sit there for months/years also. The only conclusion I have to such sellers is that they aren't really serious about selling.


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    #119
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    davo10 wrote: »
    Or of course he can always accept the highest bid when the bidding has stopped, right now he is waiting to see if in fact the bidding has stopped, risky but nothing wrong with it.

    And why the OP should reduce her bid just below the last highest other bid.

    But we really don't know enough about the situation.


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    #120
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Between 2000 and 2006 we bought two houses (still living in the second one) and looked at and bid for many more.
    Every single time it's the same. Getting faffed about, getting rejected, "mystery" cash buyers materialising out of the blue and so on and so forth.
    Back then the market was massively buoyant, even more so than today.
    If I look at the advise given on this thread (Jesus wept) it is "shut up and pay, suck it up, you're only a buyer, why argue" etc...
    We took a different view. There is always another seller, there is always another house and if they don't like my offer they are indeed very welcome not to take it and wait for the 2 birds in the bush.
    So I would call their bluff and tell them politely "thanks, but no thanks".
    I was amazed that almost every seller we turned down than came back with his hat in his hands a few weeks later and said "well, actually..."
    Even in a seller's market, don't behave like you're a kipper ready to be gutted. Sometimes the offer of X right now will outweigh the offer of X+Y in 6 months or a years time.
    And houseprices are not on the same meteoric rise as they were back then, it has flattened out. Wait for your seller to come back from 2006 and he may well be very well disposed to your current very fair offer.


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    #121
    TearFairy
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭TearFairy


    Thanks again guys for all the replies, I do appreciate them. At the end of the day I agree completely the seller should of course get the highest price he can, I would too. As soon as I saw the house and the price I knew it was underpriced and it would go up about 15k maybe 20k. But it needs a fair amount of work doing and I certainly didn't think the seller would expect much more than that for it

    There is no way we will be offering anymore for it, we will do nothing for now and see if/when the EA contacts us. There may well come another bidder after this last viewing so we would definitely be out. But for now the search goes on...!


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