Problems with my brother

kronsington

Hi all,

So I may have brought this topic up a long time ago and I suppose I just need to vent I guess. No one on this planet gets under my skin like my own brother. I love him dearly but more often than not, we just do not get along. We are adults (he's 27, im 33) but we may as well be children. He's basically a waster. No motivation, no ambition, lazy, surly, cocky. A burden on our family in many ways. I moved to canada about 1.5 years ago and we havent spoken, the odd text here and there, thats about it. My parents separated officially after a long and unhappy marriage and now my brother is sponging off my father in a smalll apartment back home, seemingly making no effort to get any sort of job. He assures us all he is, but after years of being lied to on a daily basis, no one believes him. It breaks my heart as when he came into his early teens he basically changed and hasnt matured in any way since- aggressive, lazy, rude, ignorant, total space cade, im convinced years of smoking weed have destoryed a lot of motivation to do anything. He had every opportunity to do well and threw it all away- didnt give a sith about the leaving cert, dropped out of college and the stress it caused my parents and the strain it put on their marriage cant be descibed. they're both afraid of him as well cos of his explosive temper. when you talk to him, you may as well be talking to a toddler, in one ear out the other. he undoubedly has a lot of resentment towards me, even though he says he doesnt, cos i would have been the older brother trying to look out for him which im sure at times he thought i was having a go at him. lots of miostakes made, but my heart was in the right place. the only thing he has going for him, is that he's an extremely talented musician, and things are picking up on that front. but i would very much doubt he has the discipline and dedication to really make a go of it. he is so unbelievably difficult to communicate with and is basically like a black sheep of the family and we've kind of given up. i will try talk to him when i return home in april for a visit but i expect more of the same. when does it end? i sincerely hope he succeeds musically and can make a living from it but he's just wasting his life at home. no routine, no structure. and it really bothers me. and ive heard the line countless times of "well he has to find hos own way" etc etc, he hasnt a clue about real life. my dad should give him an ultimatum to get a job and just move out, but he's never been the best father and hasnt a clue either. unfortunately our family is sveraly fractured and will never heal, id like some sort of normal relationship with him but ive tried for years to communicate with him and he is simply impossible. at a loss really. i get jealous of seeing y other friends whos familties are relatively stable. vent over. thank you

Potatoeman

I would be careful having this talk with him, especially when you live in another country. It's going to be his first response.

Did you try and keep in contact with him? A few texts here and there doesn't seem like either of you are making the effort.

Typer Monkey

It sounds like you're very different people and that you don't even like him much. I'm not sure why you feel you should force a relationship with him? You would never be friends if you weren't related so there's no reason why you should be friends just because you are brothers.

Your father is a grown man so if he chooses to allow your brother to sponge off him then there's not much you can do there either.

If I were you I'd work on accepting that you don't have a close family dynamic and that you just don't get on with your brother and most likely never will

kronsington

Potatoeman wrote: »

I would be careful having this talk with him, especially when you live in another country. It's going to be his first response.

Did you try and keep in contact with him? A few texts here and there doesn't seem like either of you are making the effort.

Well he's never responded positively to any talks in the past- from me or anyone else. So I don't expect much.

When we do text, it's me who initiates every time.

kronsington

Typer Monkey wrote: »

It sounds like you're very different people and that you don't even like him much. I'm not sure why you feel you should force a relationship with him? You would never be friends if you weren't related so there's no reason why you should be friends just because you are brothers.

Your father is a grown man so if he chooses to allow your brother to sponge off him then there's not much you can do there either.

If I were you I'd work on accepting that you don't have a close family dynamic and that you just don't get on with your brother and most likely never will

There are times I don't like him, but of course I love him as he's my brother and we were very close when we were younger. If I didn't give a **** what he does, I wouldn't even write this post, so I care very much. And despite how much of a bollox he is at times ( I'm definitely not perfect by the way) I still love him and would like a relationship. We've both said we want a closer relationship but it's always me who tries to make this happen with no effort on his side. It's mainly how his behaviour effects out entire family and the stress and strain it causes that grinds my gears. I don't expect us to become best friends by any means

Potatoeman

kronsington wrote: »

Well he's never responded positively to any talks in the past- from me or anyone else. So I don't expect much.

When we do text, it's me who initiates every time.

Well at least you're making the effort to make contact.

I would think about how you expect the talk to go. It could lead to some deep resentment frim him.

daisybelle2008

kronsington wrote: »

He's basically a waster. aggressive, lazy, rude, ignorant, total space cadet , I'm sure at times he thought i was having a go at him.

he hasnt a clue about real life. my dad should give him an ultimatum to get a job and just move out,

id like some sort of normal relationship with him but ive tried for years to communicate with him and he is simply impossible.

Really OP? You want a normal relationship with him? You appear to treat him with absolute disdain, and do not respect the fact he is entitled to live his life whatever way he sees fit. It is quiet shocking and nasty the way you describe him. You seem to solely want to tell him to live his life the way you see fit. What gives you that right? That's not a normal relationship, one party so condescending and pontificating. You can't have a 'normal' relationship with such horrible negative judgements. I can't believe you bring up the leaving cert! Ten years ago. And blaming him for your parents marriage problems. God, be honest with yourself you do not want a nice relationship with him. You want to persecute and punishe him, and you expect him to go along with this. I'd tell you to go fup yourself and mind your own business.

Why not encourage the positive aspects and accept him for who he is. You are only bruising yourself expecting him to be a different person, he can't and won't.

Neyite

You sound like chalk and cheese - lots of families have very different personalities in them so its not as rare as you think.

But, he's an adult, and therefore master of his own life, so he can waste it if he wants to. You don't get to dictate to him how to live his life any more than he gets to dictate to you how to live yours. If parents want to enable him and let him sponge off them, that's their prerogative. You don't have to listen to them moan about subsidising him though.

You wont have any semblance of a fraternal relationship when you are talking down to him. I know this from personal experience - someone had very strong views on how I should live my life. Now its more than 15 years on from the time that person copped on to themselves, but the damage is done and we are not close and probably never will be.

I'd suggest working on not being so invested in what he does with his life, because its unlikely you'll be successful in working on changing him.

kronsington

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Really OP? You want a normal relationship with him? You appear to treat him with absolute disdain, and do not respect the fact he is entitled to live his life whatever way he sees fit. It is quiet shocking and nasty the way you describe him. You seem to solely want to tell him to live his life the way you see fit. What gives you that right? That's not a normal relationship, one party so condescending and pontificating. You can't have a 'normal' relationship with such horrible negative judgements. I can't believe you bring up the leaving cert! Ten years ago. And blaming him for your parents marriage problems. God, be honest with yourself you do not want a nice relationship with him. You want to persecute and punishe him, and you expect him to go along with this. I'd tell you to go fup yourself and mind your own business.

Why not encourage the positive aspects and accept him for who he is. You are only bruising yourself expecting him to be a different person, he can't and won't.

Thanks for that Daisy. When he behaviour affects people I care about- i.e my parents- physically and verbally bullying my mother, smashing chairs in our house, guards calling to the door: i do consider it my business. Think whatever you like

kronsington

Neyite wrote: »

You sound like chalk and cheese - lots of families have very different personalities in them so its not as rare as you think.

But, he's an adult, and therefore master of his own life, so he can waste it if he wants to. You don't get to dictate to him how to live his life any more than he gets to dictate to you how to live yours. If parents want to enable him and let him sponge off them, that's their prerogative. You don't have to listen to them moan about subsidising him though.

You wont have any semblance of a fraternal relationship when you are talking down to him. I know this from personal experience - someone had very strong views on how I should live my life. Now its more than 15 years on from the time that person copped on to themselves, but the damage is done and we are not close and probably never will be.

I'd suggest working on not being so invested in what he does with his life, because its unlikely you'll be successful in working on changing him.

I probably talked down to him too much at times when we were younger, which i regret. i know my heart was int he right place but lots of mistakes were made all round, bindsight 50/50 etc. we've been through a lot as people and a family and i really dont want any more tension and drama. before i left for canada, he sent me a very long email (very out of character) saying how he was inspired that i took the initiative to make the difficult decision to leave ireland and he was going to look at his own life. which was nice and unexpected. there's some resentment on both sides without a doubt and i know many people who have difficult relationships with their siblings. but there's a willingness on both sides to try make a go of it so i hope we can achieve that. i didnt intend for my original message to be as aggressive as it came out

Ave Sodalis

OP, I don't know if you come across like this in real life but if you do, there could lie the problem. Your posts seem to jump from "oh I love my brother and want to be friends and we all make mistakes" to "he's a useless, aggressive, good for nothing sponger" and there doesn't seem to be anything in between. To be honest, it comes across as quite condescending and hateful, and if I were your brother (provided this translates to real life), I would not want any relationship with someone who outwardly says it's for all the right reasons but then turns around to look down on me and used me and my perceived failings as an ego boost. At the end of the day though, it really is none of your business what arrangement your brother and your father has, and that's something you'll have to accept unless your father says otherwise. If you can't accept that your brother is who he is and it's not your job to change him, I would rethink establishing any relationship with him for both your goods.

LegacyUser

Op,

I think you need to separate out the various issues between you and your brother, and you and your parents. As an aside, you seem to place some blame on your brother for your parents having a bad marriage but did your parents ever teach him (or you?) how to communicate with each other?

I imagine there is a severe communication problem in your family, between all the individuals. People are not mind readers, they can't understand what we mean unless we tell them, (and for men, sometimes pretty explicitly).

I always fight with one of my brothers, though when we get on we get on very well (oddly enough) and over the years I've realised we're rarely fighting over the thing we appear to be fighting over, we're basically primates fighting because we can't express ourselves. From our earliest days that's how we've always communicated, I've had to re-learn how to communicate with him (and not always successfully, we're brothers after all, always going to be some messing)

Have you tried to see things from your brother's point of view? If he never finished his degree he probably feels he doesn't have much scope to get work. You say he likes music, (and iirc from other posts you are from Limerick?) LIT and UL both have excellent courses related to music, would he go for something like that? He is probably borderline depressed and unable to express himself properly, as Damien Rice said, (something like) "I wouldn't be a singer if I was able to express myself any other way."

From the outside looking in, thing would be better for ye if you learned how to speak, properly speak to each other. Reach out to him on his interests, if you heard he played a good gig recently, email him going "I just heard off the lads you'd a great set the last night. I really admire that you can do that. I would never be able to get up on stage and sing (or whatever). Is there a video I can watch or did one of the lads record it? Would love to see it." Don't offer him advice, don't ask him about your parents, just check in and see how he is.

Also, never compare your family (who you are an expert on) to anyone else's family. Everyone's family has it bad spots, we just keep them hidden, people probably look at you and think "must be great having two fine sons" or whatever.

miamee

kronsington wrote: »

I probably talked down to him too much at times when we were younger, which i regret. i know my heart was int he right place but lots of mistakes were made all round, bindsight 50/50 etc. we've been through a lot as people and a family and i really dont want any more tension and drama. before i left for canada, he sent me a very long email (very out of character) saying how he was inspired that i took the initiative to make the difficult decision to leave ireland and he was going to look at his own life. which was nice and unexpected. there's some resentment on both sides without a doubt and i know many people who have difficult relationships with their siblings. but there's a willingness on both sides to try make a go of it so i hope we can achieve that. i didnt intend for my original message to be as aggressive as it came out

This email he sent sounds like a good place to start. I know you don't talk much but when you see him next, why not mention it? Ask him has he thought any more about what he'd said. The intention to change is there but something has stopped him or maybe he is trying and not getting anywhere just yet. You won't know unless you ask and you will only get a real answer if you ask in a non-confrontational manner, out of concern for him, not concern about his living arrangements, etc. The tough love, 'what are you doing with your life?!' approach hasn't worked, it may be time to set aside the anger and frustration and change tack.

You seem to genuinely care about him, hopefully you will be able to make the change for the sake of your relationship. Being the older sibling isn't always easy

lazybones32

OP, you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. A kick up the ar$e works for some people but not for everyone. If you want a friendship with him, treat him like a friend and not a self-appointed life-coach or surrogate parent. Older brothers can take dickiness to a new level with their ' I know what's best...' attitude but would you treat any friend like this? - or accept such treatment from others?

You can't change him. Or anyone else. You either accept your brother as he is or you won't accept him until he's a better man in your eyes. There comes a point where you have to almost wash your hands of how other people interact with each other and how they live their life but that doesn't mean you stop loving and communicating with them. You're responsible for how you treat them; not how they treat others or what they achieve with their life.

He has character flaws; so do you. Focus on the good and enjoy his company.

OneOfThem

lazybones32 wrote: »

OP, you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Yeah, this all day long OP.

If you're going to try to talk to him, focus on the positives that could be gained for himself from him getting a job and his own place etc, not the negatives that exist for others from him not.

He's a 27 year old man? Suggest to him that he may have a lot more sexual cache if he wasn't living in an apartment with his father.
Point out to him how awesome you find it having your own space, all the things you like about that, and suggest he might like that too.
That kind of thing.

Point out the awesome possibilities of being your own man, in your own space, with your own income, how advantageous it is.

Come at it from the angle of the great things he has an opportunity of experiencing. How great they are. Go from that angle.

oceanid

kronsington wrote: »

I probably talked down to him too much at times when we were younger, which i regret.

You'll have to tone down the 'older brother' thing if you want it to be a more grown-up relationship. The comments as to how he's living his life should stop (including commenting to others in the family).
You can be there for him, but in a way that if he wants your view on something, he can ask. The next time you two get talking, let him be the one to decide the conversation etc.
After a year or two, when he sees that you've made changes, he might be inspired to make changes in his own life.