Norweigan to begin Cork - Boston

roundymac · 25-09-2015 7:06pm

There is an option there to add a 1000' to the the length of the runway AFAIK or at least there was.

snubbleste · 25-09-2015 7:22pm

What sweeteners did Cork give to Norwegian? :cool:

FWVT · 25-09-2015 7:59pm

bkehoe wrote: »

Unfortunately that while the airframe MTOW can be up to this, operations at Cork will be limited significantly below this due to the runway length. On a standard day (e.g. 15 degrees C, QNH 1013) with no headwind, 75 tonnes is more like it. Drop the QNH to 990, 980, etc like is common in winter and that could easily drop 2 or 3 tonnes depending on headwind, etc. I strongly suspect that westbound fuel stops will be common, if not actually planned in advance, due to the runway not being long enough to accommodate the aircraft at MTOW. Of course limiting the passenger numbers is an alternative.

Aah, back comes the Shannon stopover! A quick hop to there to refuel and then on its way!

Noxegon · 25-09-2015 8:03pm

Independent says 146 economy seats, 12 business seats.

If that's correct, that should answer the MTOW question

kub · 25-09-2015 9:07pm

snubbleste wrote: »

What sweeteners did Cork give to Norwegian? :cool:

Did you ever notice the livery on the Norwegian aircraft?

Especially the colour scheme

questionmark? · 25-09-2015 9:46pm

What's with the negative comments in this thread. It's an Irish trait I detest. Good news for Cork Airport. Good news for Cork and surrounding counties but yet people are already picking holes in it. Do you think they just picked this route out of the air(bad pun) without doing the maths? I hope it does well and helps to bring inward investment to the region. Judgement on the service is the reserved until they start the flights.

Rhys Essien · 25-09-2015 9:47pm

kub wrote: »

Did you ever notice the livery on the Norwegian aircraft?

Especially the colour scheme

They're not making it half obvious.:D

notharrypotter · 26-09-2015 7:16am

fr336 wrote: »

I won't tell you what they're saying over on Pprune :eek::(

Links?

roundymac · 26-09-2015 8:36am

Ahh, the good auld blood and bandages, now all we need are Sam and the McCarthy cup. Seriously I don't care about stopovers, all I want is a flight that finish's in Cork airport. Even an old fashioned Cork-Dub-JFK-Dub-Cork would do. Anything to avoid that N20.

knockon · 26-09-2015 11:14am

Carnacalla wrote: »

757's going from SNN-EWR often have to divert.

Not accurate. It has been sometime since a UAL757 (actually they are old Continental 757-200's that can carry 15,000 lbs or over 2,000 gls more fuel that the United 757-200's) diverted due to head winds in fact I can remember only one occasion in the last few years and that was due to destination weather requiring added fuel for distant alternates, besides a couple of technical/sick pax diversions.

thelikelylad · 26-09-2015 12:37pm

Fantastic news for the city and the airport! Great to see Bloomberg give it a mention too.

I'd imagine the Boston route will be great for the likes of EMC Corp with their HQ being in the Boston area.

corkonion · 26-09-2015 1:59pm

It is indeed fantastic news for Cork, although one important point seems to have gone unnoticed, this Norwegian airline wants to register the aircraft of this subsidiary in Ireland to lower costs.

"The carrier also has 17 Dreamliners due by 2018, of which eight are already in the fleet. Kjos said he’s holding off on a possible follow-on order while awaiting a foreign carrier permit from the U.S., where airlines and unions have queried the legitimacy of plans to register jets in Ireland to cut costs.
The CEO said the permit is needed before Norwegian can start “full-scale” flying with the 787 fleet, since aircraft that might operate routes to Canada, South America or South Africa would ultimately also serve U.S. destinations."

Other airlines and unions will object to this and a permit may not be granted.

26-09-2015 2:02pm

corkonion wrote: »

It is indeed fantastic news for Cork, although one important point seems to have gone unnoticed, this Norwegian airline wants to register the aircraft of this subsidiary in Ireland to lower costs.

"The carrier also has 17 Dreamliners due by 2018, of which eight are already in the fleet. Kjos said he’s holding off on a possible follow-on order while awaiting a foreign carrier permit from the U.S., where airlines and unions have queried the legitimacy of plans to register jets in Ireland to cut costs.
The CEO said the permit is needed before Norwegian can start “full-scale” flying with the 787 fleet, since aircraft that might operate routes to Canada, South America or South Africa would ultimately also serve U.S. destinations."

Other airlines and unions will object to this and a permit may not be granted.

This has been ongoing for a couple of years now, they had their 787s reg'd in Ireland but had to take them off, they have their 737s based in Gatwick on the Irish register

man98 · 26-09-2015 2:14pm

The thing that I don't like with this is that Cork is being used as a pawn in the games NAX are playing with the US. Their Dept of Transport is reluctant to grant permits for NAS/ NAX to use US airports, what is being brushed over is that these flights will open happen if this is granted. Mr. Kjøs is a smart man. Cork is struggling to get back on its feet and there's an election coming up, the government can't lose face which means we are now firmly on the side of NAS. Smart move.

JCX BXC · 26-09-2015 6:14pm

I wonder when the flights will go up for sale.

Rhys Essien · 26-09-2015 6:21pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

I wonder when the flights will go up for sale.

Early December.See here.

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/647519264212185088

JCX BXC · 26-09-2015 6:25pm

Early December? Wow!
Are they waiting for some sort of permissions?

Rhys Essien · 26-09-2015 6:41pm

kub wrote: »

Did you ever notice the livery on the Norwegian aircraft?

Especially the colour scheme

Expect this next year.:)

vkid · 26-09-2015 6:46pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Early December? Wow!
Are they waiting for some sort of permissions?

Noticed this on the RTE report

"Norwegian CEO Bjorn Kjos said: "This is only the beginning of our plans for new routes in Ireland but our expansion relies on the US Department of Transportation (DoT) finally approving Norwegian Air International’s application for a foreign carrier permit.

"Only DoT approval for NAI will unlock the door for these exciting new routes, creating more competition, more choice and better fares for business and leisure passengers on both sides of the Atlantic."

JCX BXC · 26-09-2015 8:24pm

vkid wrote: »

Noticed this on the RTE report

"Norwegian CEO Bjorn Kjos said: "This is only the beginning of our plans for new routes in Ireland but our expansion relies on the US Department of Transportation (DoT) finally approving Norwegian Air International’s application for a foreign carrier permit.

"Only DoT approval for NAI will unlock the door for these exciting new routes, creating more competition, more choice and better fares for business and leisure passengers on both sides of the Atlantic."

I assume they expect this to be granted?

kub · 26-09-2015 9:49pm

Irish registered.planes operating a route from Ireland to US.

Why wouldn't it be granted?

notharrypotter · 26-09-2015 10:41pm

Irish registered.planes

Why wouldn't it be granted?

Flag of convenience.

fr336 · 27-09-2015 7:16am

notharrypotter wrote: »

Links?

http://www.pprune.org/9127379-post5488.html

MoeJay · 27-09-2015 7:45am

kub wrote: »

Irish registered.planes operating a route from Ireland to US.

Why wouldn't it be granted?

Well, Norwegian created its Irish subsidiary and then decided the best way to run the operation was having its crews based in Thailand on Singaporean contracts of employment, and having the airplanes based in Ireland but not flying there either...why bother going to all the trouble?

Now that might raise a red flag or two with some people but the Irish government are clearly happy with such arrangements. The USA on the other hand remain to be convinced.

Some people might think that NAI being Irish based is a good thing. Realistically, no crew will be based here, it will have no heavy maintenance done here, it will have a small office operation overseen by the bigger corporation elsewhere etc..it will never be a big employer. I seem to remember another successful Irish airline's CEO stating that he would move his entire fleet to another country if the regulatory system was more preferential there...he has remained here. What does that tell you?

If, and I really don't know the details here, if this is some kind of political move to try and pressurise the respective governments to fully approve NAI, then it should be seen as such. Couldn't they start the route tomorrow with Norwegian registered aircraft....?

billie1b · 27-09-2015 11:07am

Noxegon wrote: »

Independent says 146 economy seats, 12 business seats.

If that's correct, that should answer the MTOW question

Even in that configuration and by my calculations it will still be around 77T on take-off, but thats with all 158 seats filled. I was quite generous with my figures though and used the near minimum landing fuel

Irish Steve · 27-09-2015 7:55pm

The Irish registration issue is a red herring, if you look at the number of Irish Registered aircraft that never come near an Irish Airport, you could be in for a very big surprise, there are significant numbers operating in both Italy and the former USSR states using the Irish register, so the fact that Norwegian are now also looking to do so is no great surprise.

I hope Cork can make it work, in the same way that I hope Norwegian can look closely at other possible routes out of Ireland and make them work, there's no reason why Ryanair should be the only low cost carrier operating out of Ireland, which has been the case for too long, partly due to some predatory pricing by Ryanair when others have tried to move into the Irish scene.

notharrypotter · 27-09-2015 7:58pm

fr336 wrote: »

http://www.pprune.org/9127379-post5488.html

And there I was thinking it was something of note.

JCX BXC · 27-09-2015 8:00pm

fr336 wrote: »

http://www.pprune.org/9127379-post5488.html

6 daily flights in the summer season at SNN, 4/5 weekly at ORK.

Bye bye SNN indeed.

notharrypotter · 27-09-2015 8:01pm

The Irish registration issue is a red herring,

Its not the "Irish" reg that's the issue.

The EU/US has an open skies type of agreement, Norway does not.
The "headquartering" in Ireland was an attempt to bypass this.

MoeJay · 27-09-2015 8:06pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

The Irish registration issue is a red herring, if you look at the number of Irish Registered aircraft that never come near an Irish Airport, you could be in for a very big surprise, there are significant numbers operating in both Italy and the former USSR states using the Irish register, so the fact that Norwegian are now also looking to do so is no great surprise.

It's no surprise as Ireland is a major player for aircraft leasing, and for Russian carriers, insurance on the airframe...same reason they have VP- registrations rather than RA-...

That's not what NAI are doing. They set up a separate AOC etc.

I'm all for connectivity, but this route might be a pawn in a bigger game. And that would be a shame.

steve-o · 27-09-2015 9:22pm

notharrypotter wrote: »

The EU/US has an open skies type of agreement, Norway does not.
The "headquartering" in Ireland was an attempt to bypass this.

Not true. Norway is part of Open Skies.

Avada · 27-09-2015 9:28pm

Didn't they go for Irish reg because they wanted to gire cheap staff from Asia and couldn't with a Norweigian reg?

notharrypotter · 27-09-2015 9:50pm

Not true. Norway is part of Open Skies.

Norway is not a member of the EU.

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2015 9:53pm

Avada wrote: »

Didn't they go for Irish reg because they wanted to gire cheap staff from Asia and couldn't with a Norweigian reg?

Yes but the application is based on EU membership.

hognef · 27-09-2015 10:08pm

Avada wrote: »

Didn't they go for Irish reg because they wanted to gire cheap staff from Asia and couldn't with a Norweigian reg?

Yes. This is my understanding. It's an attempt to circumvent strict Norwegian labour laws. Don't think it was only in relation to Asian staff; even Western European staff could potentially be had for half the cost of Norwegian staff.

feargale · 27-09-2015 10:16pm

Cork-Boston? In view of the controversy of the weekend isn't Cork-Brussels a priority?

JCX BXC · 27-09-2015 10:41pm

feargale wrote: »

Cork-Boston? In view of the controversy of the weekend isn't Cork-Brussels a priority?

Have a look, Aer Lingus already do Cork-Brussels. For that TD's needs a 6:30am flight is needed and probably a day return too.

Avada · 28-09-2015 6:51am

hognef wrote: »

Yes. This is my understanding. It's an attempt to circumvent strict Norwegian labour laws. Don't think it was only in relation to Asian staff; even Western European staff could potentially be had for half the cost of Norwegian staff.

Yeah here's an article on it
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/business/international/long-haul-expansion-by-a-norwegian-carrier-upsets-us-airlines.html?referer=&_r=0

Skuxx · 28-09-2015 8:38am

Anyone heard a mention of what sort of prices could be expected?

Tabnabs · 28-09-2015 9:00am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes but the application is based on EU membership.

And yet it's not.

http://www.state.gov/e/eb/rls/othr/ata/114805.htm

man98 · 28-09-2015 12:20pm

Skuxx wrote: »

Anyone heard a mention of what sort of prices could be expected?

I'd imagine €149 one way starting price.

keithclancy · 28-09-2015 3:17pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Free WiFi would be a real bonus for me.

I suppose it would be wise to wait a while for the DAA to see if the routes are long term or whether the stop will be moved should the service not meet expectations.

The Wifi only works in Europe.

https://www.norwegian.com/uk/about-norwegian/our-company/fleet/in-flight-wifi/

Norwegian is currently not offering WiFi on its long-haul flights.

No Satellite footprint over the Atlantic.

Bigcheeze · 28-09-2015 9:51pm

keithclancy wrote: »

The Wifi only works in Europe.

https://www.norwegian.com/uk/about-norwegian/our-company/fleet/in-flight-wifi/

No Satellite footprint over the Atlantic.

Aer Lingus have wifi over the Atlantic

L1011 · 29-09-2015 8:16am

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Aer Lingus have wifi over the Atlantic

The system Norwegian use hasn't got coverage over the Atlantic.

roundymac · 29-09-2015 8:45am

Aer Lingus are probably using Sky Broadband.:D:D

aviator7 · 29-09-2015 7:51pm

L1011 wrote: »

The system Norwegian use hasn't got coverage over the Atlantic.

And even the airlines that have the satellite WiFi over the Atlantic have terrible service at certain points. Most flights seem to lose connectivity at some point across the pond it seems.

It's still a work in progress it seems to me.

Bussywussy · 30-09-2015 1:15pm

It depends on how each system is configured and the routing,if a flight takes a more northerly/southern route than normal on the atlantic it may lose signal for a bit because the antenna might not lock to the correct sat,the antenna offset can be fine tuned on the ground from a laptop to fix it,other than that it should work fine.

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 12:55pm

€149 each way for a flight with no pre clearance and aboard a 737?

Marginal value wise imho.

Pat Dunne · 05-10-2015 1:27pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

€149 each way for a flight with no pre clearance and aboard a 737?

Marginal value wise imho.

Have you a link to your info?

roundymac · 05-10-2015 1:30pm

So you'd rather do a 2 hour drive to SNN and more importantly the same drive back to Cork on your return? There is'nt going to be much difference between a 757 and a 737. The leg room will be much the same, extra toilets maybe and P/E in a 757. For a 1500 hour departure I can leave my house at 13.30 and still be in time. I know the one I'd take.

Norweigan to begin Cork - Boston

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