National Hunt season 2015/16

BurtMacklin

One of the lads told me he got word for Lake Field. Barry Geraghty booked to ride it which is encouraging. Was 6's now into 5/2.

3.05pm in Thurles.

BurtMacklin

Went off at 2/1. Beaten by half a length.

hawkeyethenoo

any word on moyle park?

hawkeyethenoo

sir des champs was impressive today

Jon Stark

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

sir des champs was impressive today

Poor enough race though, most them had been out for hundreds of days. I wouldn't read too much into it so, given what O'Leary said previously though it's encouraging.

hawkeyethenoo

Jon Stark wrote: »

Poor enough race though, most them had been out for hundreds of days. I wouldn't read too much into it so, given what O'Leary said previously though it's encouraging.

it was but it was a very nice performance after being off nearly 700 days. still retains a lot of ability by the looks of it.

uxiant

Given the strength of the 3m chase division the Betfair Chase is an awful race. Can't believe there's only 5 runners with 112k up for grabs never mind the 1m pound bonus.

BumperD

38 runners today at Haydock across the 6 races. Shows where the industry is at. A lot of work needs to be done.

klairondavis

Haydock has been allowed turn into a glorified greyhound track. It's no wonder trainers won't run their best horses there.

Bangor Billy

All 5 Gold Cup winners from 2009 - 2013 ran at Haydock. That's apart from dual King George winner Silviniaco Conti, Ryanair winner Cue Card, GN winners Many Clouds, Mon Mome & Neptune Collonges, etc, etc, etc. They seem like some of the best horses to me.

klairondavis

Bangor Billy wrote: »

All 5 Gold Cup winners from 2009 - 2013 ran at Haydock. That's apart from dual King George winner Silviniaco Conti, Ryanair winner Cue Card, GN winners Many Clouds, Mon Mome & Neptune Collonges, etc, etc, etc. They seem like some of the best horses to me.

Compare the chase course to what was there over 10 years ago. They replaced the old chase course with flimsy portable fences sited on the old hurdle track meaning sharper bends and a much reduced run in.

"DISGUSTING", "a disgrace" and "horrific" were how three leading trainers in northern England reacted on Tuesday to news of Haydock's plan to scrap its chase course.

Haydock's drop fences are due to be used for the last time on April 7, after which chases will be run using portable fences on the hurdles track.

The move will allow the chase track to be turned into a spring and autumn Flat course.

The financially motivated move - Haydock has increased its profitable Flat meetings at the expense of less popular jumps fixtures - provoked fierce criticism from Sue Smith, Ferdy Murphy and Ginger McCain, who retired last year.

Smith, the top trainer at Haydock with 30 winners in the past five seasons, said: "It's a real disgrace. It's an outstanding Grade 1 track that's going to be using portable fences for chases - where do we go from here?

"It's a terrible shame, as was the loss of jumping at Nottingham and Windsor. National Hunt people have got to get together and stop these things from happening. I do not agree with what Haydock are doing. If I could do anything to stop it, I would."

She added with reference to the smaller portable fences: "The bias in jump racing now is towards Flat-bred horses. You wonder how viable it is being a National Hunt breeder."
Murphy said: "It's horrific and another illustration of how jump racing in the north is being dumbed down.

"You only have to look at Wetherby's meeting tomorrow to see that. It's a Grade 1 course but putting on a card that includes a seller, bumper, 0-95handicap and 0-90 handicap. Only one race is worth over £5,000.

"Not surprisingly we’ve no declarations, and neither have Sue Smith , Nicky Richards or Len Lungo.”
McCain added: "Haydock should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. It's utterly disgusting, completely wrong. I cannot conceive what thought has gone into it.

"They have the best chase course in Britain or Ireland. All my good horses, including Red Rum and Amberleigh House, went there, and I'd rather run a novice chaser there than anywhere.

"All Haydock seems interested in is the Friday night crew of yobbos, who are not racing people. They could put Arab racing on Friday nights and still get a big crowd.

"They have improved the ground and facilities, but they must keep the true character of National Hunt racing."

Echoing Smith's call for a campaign to persuade Haydock to rethink, McCain said: "I'd do anything to get them to retain the chasingcourse they've got now."

Trainer Peter Beaumont also labelled the move "very disappointing", while BHB spokesman Will Lambe said: "Courses are required to stage a minimum of one chase at a jumps meeting, like Haydock has done recently, but we encourage courses to stage more than that."

This year, jump meetings were scheduled to account for 38 per cent of the fixture list, down from 47 per cent in 1993.

Tote spokesman Damian Walker said that, on average, Haydock's Flat fixtures produced 15 per cent higher on-course turnover than its jumps, while Levy Board chief executive Sir Tristram Ricketts backed Haydock's move to up its Flat portfolio to 27 meetings from 20.

Ricketts said: "I commend Bill Whittle and his team on an excellent example of strategic thinking to ensure that the racecourse is assured of a sustainable and prosperous future - which will be of benefit to racegoers and participants in both codes alike.

Wicklow Brave

Un de Sceaux will run in the Tingle Creek according to WPM in his RP column tomorrow. Could be a belter with UDS, Sprinter, Simonsig, Sire de Grugy coming back to himself aswell according to Gary Moore today, Vibrato Valtat, Dodging Bullets (he is doubtful though). WPM might bring Douvan over aswell for Henry VIII that day instead of Leopardstown on Stephen's Day (don't want a repeat of what happened Vautour perhaps).

This weekend, Hennessy & Hatton's Grace next weekend, Tingle Creek & John Durkan weekend after, all before racing over Christmas/New Year... who says jumps racing is only about Cheltenham?

Bangor Billy

Not disagreeing that the Haydock course has changed and not for the better but you said trainers won't run their best horses there and that clearly isn't true. And if you are quoting Ferdy Murphy in support of your argument you really must be struggling

Harry Angstrom

klairondavis wrote: »

Haydock has been allowed turn into a glorified greyhound track. It's no wonder trainers won't run their best horses there.

Likewise with Wetherby. Racecourses are just following the money these days. The fact that they've dug up Newcastle's Flat course in favour of mediocre sand racing is proof enough.

klairondavis

Bangor Billy wrote: »

Not disagreeing that the Haydock course has changed and not for the better but you said trainers won't run their best horses there and that clearly isn't true. And if you are quoting Ferdy Murphy in support of your argument you really must be struggling

None of the top 9 horses in the Gold Cup betting (as per Oddschecker this morning) are running in the Betfair.

Jon Stark

PP have updated their market for the Tingle. UDS 8/11 Fav now.

Ladbrokes haven't updated their market, Will Hill have taken their market down so I assume they're in the process of it.

Mullins throwing this horse in has kind of dampened what would have been a very open and exciting Tingle. I suppose it still can be exciting, but only from the perspective of hoping for an off day for UDS.

I was only talking to someone yesterday about where he was going to run him.

Harry Angstrom

Setback for Annie:

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/10073890/annie-power-unlikely-to-run-before-cheltenham-festival

I can't see Willie Mullins going for the World Hurdle on her seasonal debut. Mares' Hurdle again for her.

Wicklow Brave

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Setback for Annie:

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/10073890/annie-power-unlikely-to-run-before-cheltenham-festival

I can't see Willie Mullins going for the World Hurdle on her seasonal debut. Mares' Hurdle again for her.

Is she Quevega in disguise? She has yet to win a G1 against geldings and it looks like now she will run in the two Mares G1s at Cheltenham and Punchestown and that'll be her season. Underwhelming. Pity she'll never become the great mare she was once destined to become.

Harry Angstrom

Wicklow Brave wrote: »

Is she Quevega in disguise? She has yet to win a G1 against geldings and it looks like now she will run in the two Mares G1s at Cheltenham and Punchestown and that'll be her season. Underwhelming. Pity she'll never become the great mare she was once destined to become.

I'm convinced that if Willie Mullins trained a latter day Dawn Run, she'd probably win 5 or 6 Mares' Hurdles at Cheltenham on the trot, without ever being given a proper race against proper horses.

Itziger

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm convinced that if Willie Mullins trained a latter day Dawn Run, she'd probably win 5 or 6 Mares' Hurdles at Cheltenham on the trot, without ever being given a proper race against proper horses.

The man is doing great work, but I have to agree with you there. It's one thing the Flat lads not wanting their stallion prospects being beaten by a girl!, but the jumps shouldn't have a problem with that.

It would be nice to see 4 or 5 trainers get those horses instead of one who then has to try to keep them apart.

MoscowFlyer

I see Pont Alexandre is entered in a race on Thursday at Thurles. Had such high hopes for this horse. Lets hope it goes well chasing.

skippymac6

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

I see Pont Alexandre is entered in a race on Thursday at Thurles. Had such high hopes for this horse. Lets hope it goes well chasing.

Same. I've been waiting for his debut over fences for the best part of two years now. I know he disappointed at Cheltenham when fav for the Neptune but that turned out to be an above average renewal. Just hoping he can stay sound and he hasnt lost too much of his class.

PM me nudes

Moyle Park - fractured pelvis

Fulham Road - fractured leg

BumperD

PM me nudes wrote: »

Moyle Park - fractured pelvis

Fulham Road - fractured leg

Jaysus

Ladeeen

'Coneygree has been ruled out of the Hennessy Gold Cup after a poor schooling session this morning' - RP

Harry Angstrom

Ladeeen wrote: »

'Coneygree has been ruled out of the Hennessy Gold Cup after a poor schooling session this morning' - RP

Thinly-veiled "we'd be mad to let our horse hump top-weight around at Newbury when there are level-weight Grade One races during Christmas". I don't blame them for doing this, but ante-post punters might feel a bit aggrieved.

Sisyphus Mark II

I'd say they genuinely wanted to run him in Hennesy but wouldn't let him go unless he was 100% 5-1 with a run for KG looks good to me. Classic year this year for staying chasers IMO ground is really key to this one. What conditions does Don Cossack thrive in?

Dr. Bre

Weak enough Hennessy now the gold cup winner is out.. Mite back one of mulhollands horses but don't fancy anything

Wicklow Brave

Ballycasey 33/1 for the Hennessy with most firms. 20/1 with Paddy Power. Hmmm...

skippymac6

Sisyphus Mark II wrote: »

I'd say they genuinely wanted to run him in Hennesy but wouldn't let him go unless he was 100% 5-1 with a run for KG looks good to me. Classic year this year for staying chasers IMO ground is really key to this one. What conditions does Don Cossack thrive in?

He seems to go on anything to my mind. Dotted up at Aintree on good ground before grinding it out at Punchestown on soft. I think he's the one to beat in the King George to be honest and I've taken the odds as Elliot has said all year that he's going there and I just think he's got very little holes in his game. The one question mark I'd have about Vautour is the his ability to go right handed with his tendency to jump to his left.

uxiant

Cossack has gotten slower over the year I think. He was well beaten in the Ryanair only making progress up the hill after being outpaced. I know he was badly hampered but he his jumping did not look exceptional on the way round and he wouldn't have gotten close as Uxizandre was pulling away at the finish. I had him backed in the Punchestown Gold Cup and thought I had done my money when Djakadam and Road to Riches were going much better but he stayed on really strongly at the finish. He really switches off in his races these days and the King George is going to be run very quickly and even faster if Coneygree shows up. I just worry he'll crack under this sort of pressure like he did in the Ryanair.

Cue Card should be favourite unless the ground turns out near good in which Vautour would be my market leader. Nicholls said on the Morning Line that Conti had issues over the summer and he would have liked another 2 weeks before the Betfair Chase and looking at the RPRs he clearly wasn't at his best. But either way Cue Card was exceptional and looks better than the horse we thought was going to be top class back in 2013. Conti will get closer to these I think but in this stronger division I reckon he'll fall short even on top of his game.

The faster they go the better Vautour will jump so the strong gallop will suit. I think he stays too (on good ground anyway). He put a mile between himself and Apache Stronghold and Valseur Lido up the hill in the JLT and Walsh and the Mullins camp seem to think he stays too. The issue with him would be fitness and the ground. Mullins stressed how hard it was to get him fit last year and with Ricci targeting his horses at Cheltenham again he may be well below parr at Christmas again. The other thing would be the ground as like I said his jumping seems much better at pace on a sound surface and he seems to gallop forever on quicker ground.

I just hope that if Vautour doesn't win at Kempton they still target the Gold Cup. He'll take all the beating on the probable quick ground at the time of year Willie seems to get him to thrive.

john_king

Moon Racer out til Spring

Johner

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Thinly-veiled "we'd be mad to let our horse hump top-weight around at Newbury when there are level-weight Grade One races during Christmas". I don't blame them for doing this, but ante-post punters might feel a bit aggrieved.

Usually this would be my thinking but this is from connections that ran a novice in the Gold Cup, if the horse was 100% I'd imagine he would have run.

Johner

See The World takes on Modus tomorrow in a novice hurdle, any excuse to post his bumper win. Tough race to start out in tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUx1CPFglDA

Dr. Bre

On the fringe returning on Stephens day. Really think he is a national horse. Wonder if Bolger thinks the same

Itziger

Johner wrote: »

See The World takes on Modus tomorrow in a novice hurdle, any excuse to post his bumper win. Tough race to start out in tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUx1CPFglDA

Hope there's not too many turns to negotiate!

Jon Stark

De Boinville said that Sprinter Sacre is likely going to dodge the Tingle Creek and go for the Orchid over Christmas.

The TC is slowly falling a part at this stage.

the groutch

would that mean they're going to let Simonsig run?

Wicklow Brave

the groutch wrote: »

would that mean they're going to let Simonsig run?

Yeah Simonsig is running. Un de Sceaux, Simonsig, Vibrato Valtat, Sire de Grugy all running. Still decent enough without Sprinter.

jj mac

john_king wrote: »

Moon Racer out til Spring

I saw this reported in a two liner from pipe on Twitter. No info about the type of injury or how long he will be on the easy list. Pipe says he hopes to have him back in the spring but does that mean Cheltenham, Aintree or punchestown. A bit more info wouldn't be too much to ask surely. To say he was vague would be an understatement. Punters surely deserve a bit more than that.

BumperD

From Racing post a few days ago...
MOON RACER, favourite for the Sky Bet Supreme Novices' Hurdle in March, has suffered a setback which will delay his eagerly-anticipated debut over hurdles.

The David Pipe-trained six-year-old has won all three starts in bumpers to date, most notably beating Modus by a length and a half in last season's Champion Bumper at Cheltenham.

Owned by Caroline Tisdall and Bryan Drew, Moon Racer cost connections £225,000 in April 2014 and looked an exceptional prospect to go jumping.

David Pipe wrote on his blog: "Unfortunately we have had to put plans on hold for Champion Bumper winner Moon Racer after he met with a setback.

"He is currently on the easy-list although we are hoping to get him back later in the season for some of the big spring festivals."

Moon Racer is a general 8-1 favourite for the festival opener in March.

Harry Angstrom

Being out until "later in the season" sometimes has a habit of turning into being out for the season. Can't believe that he's still as low as 8/1 for the Supreme, considering that Racing Post article.

Johner

Rock On Ruby has been retired due to injury. What a great animal he has been.

http://www.harryfryracing.com/-news/27112015095103-ruby-retires-at-the-top/

skippymac6

Johner wrote: »

Rock On Ruby has been retired due to injury. What a great animal he has been.

http://www.harryfryracing.com/-news/27112015095103-ruby-retires-at-the-top/

Yeah a great servant to connections. A bit hollow that he was Nicholls' only Champion Hurdle winner and he was basically trained by Fry to win that year.

Jon Stark

Sprinter Sacre has been officially omitted from the Tingle Creek.

I can understand where Henderson is coming from when he says that a race dictated by Un De Sceaux and on the likely ground would be too much of a hard race, too soon, for Sprinter.

On the other hand, he still has Simonsig entered, a horse that only reappeared a week earlier than SS, and who had the added handicap of being out for nearly 1000 days. I mean if we're talking about looking after the well being of a horse, then surely it's also way too early after Simonsig's comeback to be going up against a horse that will give him a very hard race?

skippymac6

Jon Stark wrote: »

Sprinter Sacre has been officially omitted from the Tingle Creek.

I can understand where Henderson is coming from when he says that a race dictated by Un De Sceaux and on the likely ground would be too much of a hard race, too soon, for Sprinter.

On the other hand, he still has Simonsig entered, a horse that only reappeared a week earlier than SS, and who had the added handicap of being out for nearly 1000 days. I mean if we're talking about looking after the well being of a horse, then surely it's also way too early after Simonsig's comeback to be going up against a horse that will give him a very hard race?

Has Simonsig been 100% confirmed for the Tingle Creek? I know he was entered in the chase at Huntingdon on Sunday too.

I guess the fact that Simonsig has had lot of "little" problems as opposed to the one shuddering problem that Sprinter has had but I do see where you're coming from.

Johner

Saphir Du Rheu switching back to hurdles now. :pac:

I thought he ran quite well for a long way in the Hennessy.

uxiant

Johner wrote: »

Saphir Du Rheu switching back to hurdles now. :pac:

I thought he ran quite well for a long way in the Hennessy.

Yeah, his race ended when he blundered down the back but he was going pretty well before that. I was hoping to see him in the Lexus but if they don't feel he's quite ready for fences I guess it makes sense to step back into a weak looking 3m hurdle division.

the groutch

well it worked for Big Bucks.

kfallon

the groutch wrote: »

well it worked for Big Bucks.

SDR has already been beaten in a WH tho!