Alien: Covenant *Spoilers from post 747*

jcsoulinger

Bacchus wrote: »

Just on the point of how stupid it is to have the xenomorph as the weapon because how do you kill then! ... The alien is David's creation. The "improved" on the original design which has a finite lifetime. The virus would run its course and leave behind a habitable planet. David didn't want that, he wanted something that would end any chance of life on the planet again which leads us to this perfect organism. He twisted the engineers weapon to be a nuclear option that rendered a planet lifeless. I can see the queen fitting in to this as a way to keep the hive going.

I think David uses the weapon in its original form on the engineers, it left the planet completely uninhabitable, It was always a nuclear option.

o1s1n

Just out of this after avoiding all spoilers, reviews or anything, and I have to say, what a pile of crap.

So incredibly disappointed. Really. I went in concerned that it might just descend into a crappy run of the mill action film - I wish it did.

Almost walked out at that laughable recorder/flute scene. At that point I was convinced Ridley Scott was just taking the absolute piss out of us all.

Argh, I can't even. Can't even!

Rodin

Hated very minute of it.

somuj

All jibberjabber. The conversation about face hugger xenomorph evolution. A plant spore can grow a xenomorph inside you.

All nonsense. Very watchable nonsense. I love all the movies. Over analysis ruins them.

RockSalto

BlitzKrieg

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I think David uses the weapon in its original form on the engineers, it left the planet completely uninhabitable, It was always a nuclear option.

No it removed the native species, but within a 10 year timeline all the creatures created from the weapon were dead and the last of the virus was relegated to fungus in some areas.

Give it another 5-10 years and all those fungus would have died out as well.

Neomorphs are not permanent, it's less nuclear and more napalm. It destroys everything and spreads rapidly but eventually it will die down

Xenomorphs are nuclear they last for decades and possibly centuries.

BlitzKrieg

DvB wrote: »

I have to agree with this.
I always thought the idea of them simply being an alien species that humans had never encountered before was what gave them their mysterious appeal...
The fact they were simply animals & couldnt be reasoned with and either killed humans on sight or used them as part of their reproductive cycle was simple & straightforward & not a reach in terms of believability.

There was an alien comic in the late 1990s which was essentially the last one in the original dark horse alien run that dealt with what the aliens were that I kind a liked called Aliens Apocalypes: The Destroying Angels

It put forward that the aliens were not a weapon or any creation but a an almost cthulian cosmic horror that exists to wipe out any species that reaches too far into space, a check to keep species in check, which is why they seem tailor designed not for any planet but for space itself.

Its not a unique idea either other shows have touched on similar notions but I kind of like the idea that no species in the universe will ever be able to meet another because to reach out to another sapient being means crossing the aliens which will wipe out your species before you reach the others. It's almost the complete opposite to more positive sci fi like Star Trek and Star Wars.


(http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Apocalypse_-_The_Destroying_Angels)

jcsoulinger

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

No it removed the native species, but within a 10 year timeline all the creatures created from the weapon were dead and the last of the virus was relegated to fungus in some areas.

Give it another 5-10 years and all those fungus would have died out as well.

Neomorphs are not permanent, it's less nuclear and more napalm. It destroys everything and spreads rapidly but eventually it will die down

Xenomorphs are nuclear they last for decades and possibly centuries.

How can you be so certain of this? In Prometheus there was primative snake like aliens living in the Engineers base for atleast two thousand years.

Tony EH

DvB wrote: »

To suggest that the alien as we see it in the original film only exists through earlier human intervention (direct or indirect through David being a man made android) ruins the back story IMO.

Yeh. It makes mankind important to the story. When in the original film (trilogy), mankind is merely part of a greater universe and a universe that's largely unknown and scary because of it.

What this film seems to be saying is that man indirectly created the Xenomorph.

TBH, that just completely wrecks an essential part of what made Alien great.

Tony EH

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think you could get much mileage out of them without some form of explanation.

Of course you would. I keep repeating this, but 'Alien' is great, partly because the alien is unknown. That fear of the unknown is essential to the horror of the film. When you explain that - especially in such a lackluster way - you take away much of the horror of the great original.

And, essentially we don't need it.

molloyjh wrote: »

I still view 1 - 3 as completely separate tbh.

Which is my problem with these prequels. It's hurting the original films. Sure, you can just eject them from your own head canon. But, they're still there.

Mokuba

Front page of r/movies.

BlitzKrieg

jcsoulinger wrote: »

How can you be so certain of this? In Prometheus there was primative snake like aliens living in the Engineers base for atleast two thousand years.

no there wasnt. There were native lifeforms living on the planet mutated by the goo (that image posted earlier is simply wrong).

Ok I did it longer earlier but to recap

The black goo is short term in comparison to the facehugger.

All evidence we saw of it showed this

The rooms where the black goo was stored in prometheus was air tight this is openly pointed out in the film

end of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOlsMl647E

All the other black goo that had been released was long gone before the events of the film.

So the only black goo to survive prometheus had been stored away in airtight rooms.

hence it decays.

how rapidly can be judged from the events between Covenant and Prometheus


Covenant takes place 10 years after Covenant

We know from the short inbetween film they released (the crossing) that the distance of travel between the two planets is long enough that Shaw had to go into cryogenic sleep for the journey. The short gives the impression the time was long enough for David to learn about the engineers

So we are looking at a 9 year maximum time gap between the point he launches the weapon and the arrival of covenant.

And thats being really generous

within 9 years the weapon kills all biological life on the planet and creates a horde of neomorphs (again we see their remains in David' work space) but by the time the covenant arrived, all of them are dead.

On top of that a crew 9 (+ 1 android) land and walk around the planet and only 2 manage to get infected. Which going from what we saw happening at most 9 years previously indicates a very high rate of decay for the virus.

To put in contrast if you sent a team of 9 into the epicentre of the Chernobyl 20 years after the accident with no protective gear most of them would get some level of radiation poisoning.


All this indicates by design the black goo has a finite lifespan.

jcsoulinger

@Blitzkrieg not gonna quote the whole post.

I not saying your wrong I'm just saying you can't say that for certain.

The goo would be kept air tight anyways to prevent it from spreading.

You have offered no evidence to the life span of the stuff that they stepped in when arriving on the engineers planet in Covenant.

jcsoulinger

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh. It makes mankind important to the story. When in the original film (trilogy), mankind is merely part of a greater universe and a universe that's largely unknown and scary because of it.

What this film seems to be saying is that man indirectly created the Xenomorph.

TBH, that just completely wrecks an essential part of what made Alien great.

I posted earlier that it maybe the Aliens still exist and that the engineers had weaponized there DNA, it's convoluted but not impossible.

What makes alien better than Aliens imo, is the layered story of Ash working against the humans, the reveal of this is probably the greatest moment in the whole franchise. I like that they try to not make it as straight forward as Aliens, they just seem to have lost the plot a bit tho.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh. It makes mankind important to the story. When in the original film (trilogy), mankind is merely part of a greater universe and a universe that's largely unknown and scary because of it.

What this film seems to be saying is that man indirectly created the Xenomorph.

TBH, that just completely wrecks an essential part of what made Alien great.

I'm old, and Alien is older than me. Yes the mystery was amazing back then, and all the years since, but let's not be old men and cry about it like New kids on the Block have just broken up

Mystery alien race plant seeds on lifeless planets leading to the creation of humans, possibly on hundreds or more planets
Humans evolve after millions of years
Humans head off into the stars with a robot to meet their creators, using clues left behind thousands of years ago
They find out that the Aliens had planned to return to earth to kill everyone 2000 years ago
Once meeting their creators, one of the Aliens tears off the robot's head and kills his creator with it
Then robot sets off on a mission to wipe out a civilisation on another alien planet
Robot obsessed with the idea of creation, descends into a twisted journey of genetic engineering

A new spaceship of human pioneers arrive......the evolving nightmare continues. This in my opinion is the very essence and atmosphere of the first movie

Name me one other science fiction movie with bigger ideas. Apart from the third instalment, I don't think we'll ever see anything like this again in the near future in the cinema.

BlitzKrieg

jcsoulinger wrote: »

@Blitzkrieg not gonna quote the whole post.

I not saying your wrong I'm just saying you can't say that for certain.

The goo would be kept air tight anyways to prevent it from spreading.

You have offered no evidence to the life span of the stuff that they stepped in when arriving on the engineers planet in Covenant.

This is an actual line from David to the captain just before the facehugger sequence:

"(Holding a sealed canister of goo)The pathogen took many forms, all extremely mutable. Fiendishly inventive in fact. The original liquid atomised to particles when exposed to the air. 10 years on all that remains outside of the original virus (points to sealed containers) are these gorgeous beasts. (David holds up one of the small eggs and then pulls over a microscope and looks into it). Patience is everything"

He may not have given an exact lifespan but I feel this supports the notion that the lifespan of the mutations from the goo is short lived in contrast to the xenomorph eggs

jcsoulinger

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

This is an actual line from David to the captain just before the facehugger sequence:

"(Holding a sealed canister of goo)The pathogen took many forms, all extremely mutable. Fiendishly inventive in fact. The original liquid atomised to particles when exposed to the air. 10 years on all that remains outside of the original virus (points to sealed containers) are these gorgeous beasts. (David holds up one of the small eggs and then pulls over a microscope and looks into it). Patience is everything"

He may not have given an exact lifespan but I feel this supports the notion that the lifespan of the mutations from the goo is short lived in contrast to the xenomorph eggs

Well it's clearly not all that remains outside of the original virus, given the vast amount of spurs that we see on the planet ready to infect anything thats unfortunate enough to come into contact with it, But that quote does suggest that they should soon die out aswell so that's fair enough. Good work.

jcsoulinger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm old, and Alien is older than me. Yes the mystery was amazing back then, and all the years since, but let's not be old men and cry about it like New kids on the Block have just broken up

Mystery alien race plant seeds on lifeless planets leading to the creation of humans, possibly on hundreds or more planets
Humans evolve after millions of years
Humans head off into the stars with a robot to meet their creators, using clues left behind thousands of years ago
They find out that the Aliens had planned to return to earth to kill everyone 2000 years ago
Once meeting their creators, one of the Aliens tears off the robot's head and kills his creator with it
Then robot sets off on a mission to wipe out a civilisation on another alien planet
Robot obsessed with the idea of creation, descends into a twisted journey of genetic engineering

A new spaceship of human pioneers arrive......the evolving nightmare continues. This in my opinion is the very essence and atmosphere of the first movie

Name me one other science fiction movie with bigger ideas. Apart from the third instalment, I don't think we'll ever see anything like this again in the near future in the cinema.

This is kinda my feelings about the 2 prequels , they are far from perfect but atleast they are trying​ to give us something much more profound than what other so called Sci-Fi films are regurgitating.

degrassinoel

seen it last night, finally.

I hated the entire crew from start to end. How could they have gotten that so badly wrong?

The original 'Alien', had loads of charisma from each actor/ress, like them or hate them they were solid all the way through.
Same with 'Aliens', brilliant characters.
'Alien 3' had some great likable characters and they were all murderers and rapists(almost all).
Even 'Alien Resurrection' got the crew right, even if they were more gritty than they should have been. They gelled well and maybe Call sucked but everyone else was great.

The only redeeming quality for me in covenant was that i know what prometheus was about now... kind of.

I should be used to being let down by the alien franchise after what they did with the predator crossovers. But nope, i was expecting something much better, and a lot more than a few nods to the first two films.

Echoes675

Mokuba wrote: »

Front page of r/movies.

This pretty much sums up Alien:Covenant for me.

Syphonax

Enjoyed this movie as a stand-alone film only, its worth going to see but the plot/story though doesnt fit well into the original Alien series, they have made it out to be that the actual reason the "Alien" exists in the original Alien movie is down to a Android created by Humans UGH!

Sin City

Hopefully Alien Awakening will reveal more about the lore
Its meant to be set between Prometheus and Covenant which is weird

Bacchus

Sin City wrote: »

Hopefully Alien Awakening will reveal more about the lore
Its meant to be set between Prometheus and Covenant which is weird

I find it hard to picture what that movie could do that would be interesting. What happened between Shaw and David leaving the Engineer weapon planet and David launching the goo on the Engineer colony that would make for an interesting movie? Ok, he kills/subdues Shaw (most likely while she's in the sleep pod) and experiments on the goo but that won't carry a whole movie.

Sin City

Bacchus wrote: »

I find it hard to picture what that movie could do that would be interesting. What happened between Shaw and David leaving the Engineer weapon planet and David launching the goo on the Engineer colony that would make for an interesting movie? Ok, he kills/subdues Shaw (most likely while she's in the sleep pod) and experiments on the goo but that won't carry a whole movie.

From what Iv read
its both 2 and 4 in the series
No idea how thats gonna work but it should cover more backstory of the engineers aswell as a back door leading into Alien itself

homerun_homer

Bacchus wrote: »

I find it hard to picture what that movie could do that would be interesting. What happened between Shaw and David leaving the Engineer weapon planet and David launching the goo on the Engineer colony that would make for an interesting movie? Ok, he kills/subdues Shaw (most likely while she's in the sleep pod) and experiments on the goo but that won't carry a whole movie.

She sings the distress signal in Covenant so he wouldn't have offed her in the pod.

Ipso

Bacchus wrote: »

I find it hard to picture what that movie could do that would be interesting. What happened between Shaw and David leaving the Engineer weapon planet and David launching the goo on the Engineer colony that would make for an interesting movie? Ok, he kills/subdues Shaw (most likely while she's in the sleep pod) and experiments on the goo but that won't carry a whole movie.

Yeah, upon arrival David basically wipes out all life on the planet. So it's only him and Shaw.
I wouldn't be surprised if Scott has another crew turn up.

buried

Ridley Scott has basically become a geriatric fanboy infatuated with his own work from decades ago. This f**king ridiculous film was basically one of those 'swede' fan made films, where fans create their own CHEAP remakes of legendary motion pictures as a homage and also a half-hearted p!ss pull. I'm finished with this nonsense. I choose to ignore this yoke, and easy it is to ignore it, as it has no soul, no mystery, no imagination. Its a motion picture playstation xbox franchise now. And it can F**k off. I won't be fooled again. Nuke it from orbit. The only way to be sure

degrassinoel

I rewatched the first four films since i seen covenant last week, every one of them is vastly superior, the second being the most enjoyable of the bunch.

homerun_homer

homerun_homer wrote: »

She sings the distress signal in Covenant so he wouldn't have offed her in the pod.

I wonder were the engineers somehow directly or indirectly responsible for shaws death, and this is why David drops the goo on the planet, as revenge

He has a little memorial garden for her, so he must hold her with some high regard

In the prologue, after Shaw goes into hypersleep, and David is on the ship by himself, there is the faint sound of a creature/alien, which I believed was hinting at the fact that they were not alone on the ship

kefir32

hopefully the next movie won't sit between prometheus and covenant. don't see how the few questions about shaw and david could carry a whole movie.I want to see what happens on origiae6 and how it ties into alien. I do want daniels to come back, however i know she has a grisly end. hate how they bump characters like shaw, newt and hicks off camera.

El Duda

I wonder if the next film will feature a space crew with one stand out female heroine?

It seems as though every space mission in that universe has at least one.

lazybones32

I like when a film sets up questions that will be revealed later, as part of a well-thought out script but this is being made up as they go along. RS is falling over himself, asking too many questions and introducing too many topics without being able to satisfactorily answer any of them, thereby making a haimes of the whole thing.

The man is suffering from whatever George Lucas has and his attempts will be remembered more negatively than positive imo.

homerun_homer

lazybones32 wrote: »

I like when a film sets up questions that will be revealed later, as part of a well-thought out script but this is being made up as they go along. RS is falling over himself, asking too many questions and introducing too many topics without being able to satisfactorily answer any of them, thereby making a haimes of the whole thing.

The man is suffering from whatever George Lucas has and his attempts will be remembered more negatively than positive imo.

RS had a totally different gameplan for the sequel, when he talked loads about it after Prometheus came out and said it would be called Paradise. Be it fan reaction and/or Warners he did a u-turn on it and sort of shat all over it by not continuing on the story in the way he said he was going to. I for one really wanted to see that film where Noomi Rapace and Fassbender head to the home world of the Engineers and see where that took things.

The film as it stands is so poor. It's at least entertainingly poor, as well as a good dose of cringe. The protaganists face down the alien on the ship in a set piece that is probably 10 minutes in total, from when it was outside to inside to sucked into space (again. Groan) This completely undermines the horror and chaos that happens onboard the Nostromo in Alien when the crew are faced with the same threat.

Sad Professor

I think it was Lindelof rather than Scott who had ideas for a sequel. The studio and Scott wanted him back but after receiving death threats from fanboys on Twitter he pulled out, leaving the sequel in disarray and prompting a total rethink.

lazybones32

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think it was Lindelof rather than Scott who had ideas for a sequel. The studio and Scott wanted him back but after receiving death threats from fanboys on Twitter he pulled out, leaving the sequel in disarray and prompting a total rethink.

Death threats?! Ffs...

TerrorFirmer

Lindelof is not even that bad a writer. He gets stick but when he's good, he's pretty damn good. Look at The Leftovers.

homerun_homer

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think it was Lindelof rather than Scott who had ideas for a sequel. The studio and Scott wanted him back but after receiving death threats from fanboys on Twitter he pulled out, leaving the sequel in disarray and prompting a total rethink.

From Wiki: In 2012, prior to the release of Prometheus, director Ridley Scott began hinting at the prospects of a sequel. Scott said that a sequel would follow Shaw to her next destination, "because if it is paradise, paradise cannot be what you think it is. Paradise has a connotation of being extremely sinister and ominous." Prometheus co-writer Damon Lindelof cast doubt on his own participation, and said, "if [Scott] wants me to be involved in something, that would be hard to say no to. At the same time, I do feel like the movie might benefit from a fresh voice or a fresh take or a fresh thought." Scott said that an additional film would be required to bridge the thirty year span written as the transpiration gap between the Prometheus sequel and Alien.

Early on, Scott stated that the film would feature no xenomorphs, "The beast is done. Cooked." However, Scott later made contradictory statements, confirming the xenomorphs' presence in the film.

lazybones32

A YouTube channel and reviewer - Mr. H (same man who appears on the Predator remake thread) - has some good reviews done on the Alien franchise and his latest upload includes some insight from lindorff(?) about where RS is going with the storyline. I don't know how to link from the phone, so for anyone interested the yt video name is "planet is not engineer homeworld".

Slydice

Had a watch. Thought it worked as an in-between episode in the Alien series.

One thing I haven't seen raised is how the overall plot seems to have been left loose enough to that accident at the start easily have been the idea of the company to wake them all up.

The connection to blade runner is interesting too. The kiss scene going back to the original and the engineer looking like the synthethic in the 2049 trailer.

All seemed very hard sci fi to me. The ship, the cryosleep, the struggles to get comms and the second lander down.

Using colonists also felt right given how easily the ones in Aliens were done over by the .. aliens

Drumpot

Slydice wrote: »

Had a watch. Thought it worked as an in-between episode in the Alien series.

One thing I haven't seen raised is how the overall plot seems to have been left loose enough to that accident at the start easily have been the idea of the company to wake them all up.

The connection to blade runner is interesting too. The kiss scene going back to the original and the engineer looking like the synthethic in the 2049 trailer.

All seemed very hard sci fi to me. The ship, the cryosleep, the struggles to get comms and the second lander down.

Using colonists also felt right given how easily the ones in Aliens were done over by the .. aliens

Agree with a lot of that.

Saw this three times in the cinema and was thoroughly entertained... watched aliens on holidays and thoroughly enjoyed that too. There were plenty of things in aliens that I noticed could be levelled at that movie that Covenant wasn't so fortunate to get away with...

That said, I love aliens, one of my all time movies. But Covenant was enjoyable.

sReq | uTeK

Do yourselves a favour.

Get audible and listen to Aliens: River of pain.

5 hours if pure quality. It's set between alien and aliens and what happens to newt and the colonists that lived there.

Great audio book

WHIP IT!

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Do yourselves a favour.

Get audible and listen to Aliens: River of pain.

5 hours if pure quality. It's set between alien and aliens and what happens to newt and the colonists that lived there.

Great audio book

Hmmmm... intriguing...

Drumpot

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Do yourselves a favour.

Get audible and listen to Aliens: River of pain.

5 hours if pure quality. It's set between alien and aliens and what happens to newt and the colonists that lived there.

Great audio book

What about the other ones, did you listen to them? On amazon it looks like there was two more out before the river of pain?

I'd be interested in buying them all, just want to do it in chronological order or start with weaker ones and listen to the best last!

BlitzKrieg

Drumpot wrote: »

What about the other ones, did you listen to them? On amazon it looks like there was two more out before the river of pain?

I'd be interested in buying them all, just want to do it in chronological order or start with weaker ones and listen to the best last!

the first 2 have elements that tie into each other but are not direct sequels. But this one is pretty much stand alone.

Drumpot

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

the first 2 have elements that tie into each other but are not direct sequels. But this one is pretty much stand alone.

Bought it and listened to first hour of it . . Its deadly ! Thanks for the tip ..

Mike Litoris

Just saw this. Man, what a disappointment and I had lowish expectations. Can't add much more to what's said already but above everything else the CGI actually made me angry. It was shocking especially coming from RS. This is a huge new low for the franchise.

TonyD79

Thought it was a bit rushed at times especially how quickly the aliens gestated compared to previous films.Thought the ending was good but after seeing Life recently it was a similar situation so wasn't a major surprise.

Syphonax

buried wrote: »

Ridley Scott has basically become a geriatric fanboy infatuated with his own work from decades ago. This f**king ridiculous film was basically one of those 'swede' fan made films, where fans create their own CHEAP remakes of legendary motion pictures as a homage and also a half-hearted p!ss pull. I'm finished with this nonsense. I choose to ignore this yoke, and easy it is to ignore it, as it has no soul, no mystery, no imagination. Its a motion picture playstation xbox franchise now. And it can F**k off. I won't be fooled again. Nuke it from orbit. The only way to be sure

While I didnt like the story its not near as bad as you make it out to be. Alien V Predator, now thats a grunt of a series to be nuked from orbit.

Hyzepher

Why was there a crashed Engineer ship on the planet?

Mickeroo

Hyzepher wrote: »

Why was there a crashed Engineer ship on the planet?

It's the one David flew in on.