Alien: Covenant *Spoilers from post 747*

Tony EH

You and the other lad are consistently missing the salient point here. The CONTEXT is entirely different.

Kane's action may seem silly. But it's merely a curious peek into an "egg of some kind". It doesn't necessarily mean that there's an agressive lifeform in there or anything. That's like saying you wouldn't look into an ostrich egg out of fear that something will leap out at you. He pays the price for his curiosity about the complete unknown.

Oram, over the course of the film has seen his crew get infected and killed in the most grusome ways. He's witnessed, first hand, the horror of David's aliens and also the creepy as fuck robot has said he's growing these alien egg things. Oram pays the price for his stupidity and his "yeh, whatever..." attitude to everything he's just seen.

While Kane's curiosity is ill advised. It isn't done out of stupidly ignoring the previous events, like Oram. Some of which happened to him just minutes before.

It's simply bad writing and an unnecessary call back to the original film.

Drumpot

Keyzer wrote: »

Watched it last night, where do I start.

Visual effects were excellent, acting not bad. The neomorph's and xenomorph's were pretty cool.

The story line however, jesus H, who in the name of god came up with this tripe and, more worryingly, who gave the green light to proceed?

So many stupid, ridiculous things happen in this movie, its just beyond belief.

- Alter course based on hearing a John Denver song? No one wants to get back in the pods? Tough, get in the fúcking pod as we have orders to travel to a different planet.

- Walking around with no helmets on an unknown planet. Who cares if its habitable, no idea what's down there. These people would have gone through extensive training before being selected for the mission. Yet they sh1tcan the main mission for nothing other than a transmission from an unknown planet.

- After witness crazy creatures bursting out of your crew mates, you put your trust in the first "person" who comes along (David). Here, follow me downstairs after I've just shown you a load of crazy sh1t in my lab. Don't worry, those eggs which only opened when you went near them, nothing to worry about, perfectly friendly. Why don't you stick your head in for a look? Actually, I think I will, cute little critters.... Absolute nonsense !!! This alone was the opportunity for the captain to kill David and destroy all of those eggs.

- Ridley Scott made this film. Let that sink in.

I could keep going. Absolute tripe.

The main thing that annoyed me about this movie is all of the characters are idiots and we, the audience, are considered idiots too to believe all of this nonsense.

In the end, I'm glad they all die, they all deserve it. And hopefully Scott doesn't make another.

I always find it interesting that people feel that they know exactly how people SHOULD react in horrifying situations. Its like you think you will react exactly the way you think while watching it. Have you ever been in a traumatic incident even remotely close to the characters in the movie?

I have had traumatic situations (not as frightening as the movie) and I can tell you I didn't react as I thought I would.

The problem here is that people think they will react as they imagine they would when in fact different people would realistically have quite dramatically different ways of reacting to the kind of horror these characters were witnessing. Its like war movies where soldiers are prepared for the horrors they might encounter, but NOTHING can prepare them for the heat of battle.

Heres a movie pitch for you. An American soldier is over in the middle East. He doesn't think the army have the correct safety procedures in place for the soldiers and doesn't think he will be listened to if he raises his concerns. So what does he do ? He decides to go AWOL, walking to the next army barracks miles away, in hostile territory in the heat, on his own, without telling a sole. Just to make a point.

This guy is actually quite intelligent and is not under pressure to do this. He goes through really hostile territory and gets caught, is a POW for years until his release.

Sounds stupid and crazy and the kind of thing a Covenant character would do . But it happened . . The problem isn't that characters do stupid things, its that some audience think its unrealistic for characters to react in certain horrific situations, when in fact they haven't a clue how a person should react.. Its that people expect x+y = z and if it doesn't fit their subjective narrative, then they think its absurd .

Drumpot

Tony EH wrote: »

You and the other lad are consistently missing the salient point here. The CONTEXT is entirely different.

Kane's action may seem silly. But it's merely a curious peek into an "egg of some kind". It doesn't necessarily mean that there's an agressive lifeform in there or anything. That's like saying you wouldn't look into an ostrich egg out of fear that something will leap out at you. He pays the price for his curiosity about the complete unknown.

Oram, over the course of the film has seen his crew get infected and killed in the most grusome ways. He's witnessed, first hand, the horror of David's aliens and also the creepy as fuck robot has said he's growing these alien egg things. Oram pays the price for his stupidity and his "yeh, whatever..." attitude to everything he's just seen.

While Kane's curiosity is ill advised. It isn't done out of stupidly ignoring the previous events, like Oram. Some of which happened to him just minutes before.

It's simply bad writing and an unnecessary call back to the original film.

Its not bad writing, its an incompetent character acting like an incompetent character. Do you not believe that incompetent people are in high positions ? It was clearly outlined that his own company didn't have the confidence to make him captain.

You could find instances in most wars where you would look at an armies decision and in hindsight see how absurd their strategy was. Why do people think non army, out of their depth , unprepared colonists would be able to make objective, competent decisions in horrific circumstances of which they couldn't possibly be prepared for.

David is an Android and a one of his kind. Its established in this universe that humans trust androids (like the response of the marines when they are confused why Ripley would be worried about Bishop). Why would Orem think that an android (one of its kind) would have the sinister plans that David had ? Look how idiotically people trust banks even after they screwed us all. If something is an institution (like a robot), then people have no reason to doubt, even when they should.

Mickeroo

Drumpot wrote: »

David is an Android and a one of his kind. Its established in this universe that humans trust androids (like the response of the marines when they are confused why Ripley would be worried about Bishop). Why would Orem think that an android (one of its kind) would have the sinister plans that David had ?

David gives a lengthy monologue outlining how bat**** crazy he has gone as he is leading him to the egg, this is directly after he was about to snog the monster that decapitated one of the crew on front of Oram (a monster which he showed more concern for than the dead crew member at that). It was bad writing imo.

Drumpot

Mickeroo wrote: »

David gives a lengthy monologue outlining how bat**** crazy he has gone as he is leading him to the egg, this is directly after he was about to snog the monster that decapitated one of the crew on front of Oram (a monster which he showed more concern for than the dead crew member at that). It was bad writing imo.

Its not bad writing, its that you just don't seem to comprehend the way trauma can affect peoples decision making process . If you are already out of your depth (like it was clearly outlined) as captain, this is only going to compound your poor judgement. Orem was already wallowing in his decision to land on that planet and had lost what little confidence he had in his decision making process. Its not that unbelievable that by the time he was chatting with David he didn't know what to believe or what to think.

Mickeroo

Drumpot wrote: »

Its not bad writing, its that you just don't seem to comprehend the way trauma can affect peoples decision making process . If you are already out of your depth (like it was clearly outlined) as captain, this is only going to compound your poor judgement.

I dont buy it.Agree to disagree I guess, but it just seemed silly to me.

Drumpot

Mickeroo wrote: »

I dont buy it.

I get that . .

I agree to disagree Sir .

pixelburp

Drumpot wrote: »

Its not bad writing, its an incompetent character acting like an incompetent character. Do you not believe that incompetent people are in high positions ? It was clearly outlined that his own company didn't have the confidence to make him captain.

But that all still comes back to bad writing; there's this waffly conversation about how Oram's faith prevented him from the captainship, but that literally never gets established, demonstrated or proven beyond a few little asides when the sh*t hits the fan. No effort is made to bed in any of the characters: we don't seem him pray, he's not even wearing a crucifix, or any icon of his religion for goodness sake. Where does his faith come into it?? We just some throwaway scene where a character announces his motivation and agenda to the audience. That's patently bad writing - it's literally the worst thing you can do to establish a status quo

He could have worked as an incompetent character if they made an effort to show how incompetent he was, even before the pressurised situation of the alien infection occurred: instead we got dialogue that just told us this & expected us to take it at face value. The script could have shown him messing up a repair, maybe make a poor decision over the comms or navigation. There was a little moment where he messes up a decision to memorialise the crew who died during the first scene, but even an incompetent person would still acknowledge the importance of morale etc. Instead it's just a heavy handed scene to telegraph to the audience that this guy don't do job so good.

Drumpot

pixelburp wrote: »

But that all still comes back to bad writing; there's this waffly conversation about how Oram's faith prevented him from the captainship, but that literally never gets established, demonstrated or proven beyond a few little asides when the sh*t hits the fan. No effort is made to bed in any of the characters: we don't seem him pray, he's not even wearing a crucifix for goodness sake. Where does his faith come into it?? We just some throwaway scene where a character announces his motivation and agenda to the audience. That's patently bad writing - it's literally the worst thing you can do in fiction writing.

He could have worked as an incompetent character if they made an effort to show how incompetent he was, even before the pressurised situation of the alien infection occurred: instead we got dialogue that just told us this & expected us to take it at face value. The script could have shown him messing up a repair, maybe make a poor decision over the comms or navigation. There was a little moment where he messes up a decision to memorialise the crew who died during the first scene, but even an incompetent person would still acknowledge the importance of morale etc. Instead it's just a heavy handed scene to telegraph to the audience that this guy don't do job so good.

Yeh, I think you are getting more to the major issue, there was no real character development and no real character to root for. I believe characters are capable of making the mistakes made in these movies but we didn't know enough about the character for it to really mean anything. I chose to just accept people can be that stupid, which I believe they can, but I understand why people find it annoying.

I watched this three times in the cinema. First time I was a bit disappointed, but I still enjoyed it. Second time I found it fun. Third time I loved the ending where the Alien pegs it towards the cargo ship collecting them..

Keyzer

Drumpot wrote: »

I always find it interesting that people feel that they know exactly how people SHOULD react in horrifying situations. Its like you think you will react exactly the way you think while watching it. Have you ever been in a traumatic incident even remotely close to the characters in the movie?

I have had traumatic situations (not as frightening as the movie) and I can tell you I didn't react as I thought I would.

The problem here is that people think they will react as they imagine they would when in fact different people would realistically have quite dramatically different ways of reacting to the kind of horror these characters were witnessing. Its like war movies where soldiers are prepared for the horrors they might encounter, but NOTHING can prepare them for the heat of battle.

Heres a movie pitch for you. An American soldier is over in the middle East. He doesn't think the army have the correct safety procedures in place for the soldiers and doesn't think he will be listened to if he raises his concerns. So what does he do ? He decides to go AWOL, walking to the next army barracks miles away, in hostile territory in the heat, on his own, without telling a sole. Just to make a point.

This guy is actually quite intelligent and is not under pressure to do this. He goes through really hostile territory and gets caught, is a POW for years until his release.

Sounds stupid and crazy and the kind of thing a Covenant character would do . But it happened . . The problem isn't that characters do stupid things, its that some audience think its unrealistic for characters to react in certain horrific situations, when in fact they haven't a clue how a person should react.. Its that people expect x+y = z and if it doesn't fit their subjective narrative, then they think its absurd .

I don't agree with your argument, its flawed in so many ways.

Human beings, for the most part, are programmed to survive. Based on the horrifying evidence presented to the captain (David trying to communicate with the alien, dead crew mates in the near vicinity), survival instincts should naturally kick in. Suspicions aroused. Evasive action taken.

Maybe I'm an overly cautious person but I would expect only a recently lobotomised idiot of a human being to follow David down those stairs and have a gawk into that egg.

It's poor, lazy writing in my opinion. I know you don't agree with this and I respect that opinion.

Drumpot

Keyzer wrote: »

I don't agree with your argument, its flawed in so many ways.

Human beings, for the most part, are programmed to survive. Based on the horrifying evidence presented to the captain (David trying to communicate with the alien, dead crew mates in the near vicinity), survival instincts should naturally kick in. Suspicions aroused. Evasive action taken.

Maybe I'm an overly cautious person but I would expect only a recently lobotomised idiot of a human being to follow David down those stairs and have a gawk into that egg.

It's poor, lazy writing in my opinion. I know you don't agree with this and I respect that opinion.

I must disclose I have a hopelessly poor opinion of humanity so any idiotic actions of individuals in most movies I find plausible .

pixelburp

Drumpot wrote: »

Yeh, I think you are getting more to the major issue, there was no real character development and no real character to root for. I believe characters are capable of making the mistakes made in these movies but we didn't know enough about the character for it to really mean anything. I chose to just accept people can be that stupid, which I believe they can, but I understand why people find it annoying.

I watched this three times in the cinema. First time I was a bit disappointed, but I still enjoyed it. Second time I found it fun. Third time I loved the ending where the Alien pegs it towards the cargo ship collecting them..

And that's fine, there's nothing saying a fictional character can't be incompetent, but Alien Covenant gave us no good grounding to believe Oram was an incompetent professional, beyond a badly & muddled scene where apparently his faith got in the way of a promotion, or that odd moment where he declines a quick ceremony to honour the dead. Even then, that wasn't really grounds to think ill of the guy beyond that he was a bit of a dick. So without any context, it's fair to take things at face value that these were apparently professional people, there on merit. Piloting a colonisation spacecraft presumably takes a certain high calibre of individual.

If there's an olive branch in all this, I do wonder if the script got butchered somewhere in production, because Oram's talk of his faith felt like a chunk of script dropped to the floor at some point. I was honestly expecting that nugget to go somewhere, to figure in events somehow: whether it became a personal conflict with the discovery of the engineered xenomorphs, or hell, even if his crucifix/star solved a pressure leak or something stupid - but nope. Bad writing.

BMMachine

I find it amazing how people can defend this movie. Like, forget the idiot captain looking in the egg, yeah whatever you need to get the story going and need the alien... sure the way they worked it in was dumb and blunt and lacked any sort of nuance but in my eyes, thats a small crime compared to the much larger ones of this film.

The lack of intensity, suspense, character and atmosphere is astounding. Yeah sure, things look pretty and the set design was pretty good if a little hamhanded in the Giger references but that isn't atmosphere, thats aesthetic. Atmosphere is 10 minutes or so of your movie where the primary noise is an alarm going off but you don't care because you are so engrossed in the character and situation that you feel the alarm is perfectly natural, its not a false clone of Ripley going around armed with Kenny Powers as a couple gets the ol' killed in the shower routine. Forced, unnatural, lazy and lacks any sort of suspense or character. In fact there ya go - the best character and the one we all liked in this film is the psychopathic bad guy. Its like wanting Buffalo Bill to blow away Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs.

Artificial, bad and unnecessary. Thats what this film is. And then when you take into account that for some reason this film is telling you how the Xenomorph was created and turns out to be complete bullsh*t involving an android and black goo then yeah, you just have a big turd. I can't see why or how someone would defend this disaster, especially if they are fans of the originals. Like it has none of what made the originals great in it, it just has the aliens and the shared universe. Why do we need a prequel telling us where the Alien came from? Its in the f**king name ALIEN, as in, WE DON'T KNOW. thats the whole thing behind the movie Ridley, we don't know and can't explain what it is, its ALIEN to us. And hes making another one? christ. but sure f**k it, Han Solo movie, Jurassic World, just keep hittin them home runs

Drumpot

BMMachine wrote: »

I find it amazing how people can defend this movie. Like, forget the idiot captain looking in the egg, yeah whatever you need to get the story going and need the alien... sure the way they worked it in was dumb and blunt and lacked any sort of nuance but in my eyes, thats a small crime compared to the much larger ones of this film.

The lack of intensity, suspense, character and atmosphere is astounding. Yeah sure, things look pretty and the set design was pretty good if a little hamhanded in the Giger references but that isn't atmosphere, thats aesthetic. Atmosphere is 10 minutes or so of your movie where the primary noise is an alarm going off but you don't care because you are so engrossed in the character and situation that you feel the alarm is perfectly natural, its not a false clone of Ripley going around armed with Kenny Powers as a couple gets the ol' killed in the shower routine. Forced, unnatural, lazy and lacks any sort of suspense or character. In fact there ya go - the best character and the one we all liked in this film is the psychopathic bad guy. Its like wanting Buffalo Bill to blow away Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs.

Artificial, bad and unnecessary. Thats what this film is. And then when you take into account that for some reason this film is telling you how the Xenomorph was created and turns out to be complete bullsh*t involving an android and black goo then yeah, you just have a big turd. I can't see why or how someone would defend this disaster, especially if they are fans of the originals. Like it has none of what made the originals great in it, it just has the aliens and the shared universe. Why do we need a prequel telling us where the Alien came from? Its in the f**king name ALIEN, as in, WE DON'T KNOW. thats the whole thing behind the movie Ridley, we don't know and can't explain what it is, its ALIEN to us. And hes making another one? christ. but sure f**k it, Han Solo movie, Jurassic World, just keep hittin them home runs

The "we didn't need a prequel" bollocks is a red herring and should bear no relevance when discussing a Movie. that means you are not discussing the movie, just the fact you didn't want it but still watched it! If that's what you thought, then you went into this movie with a pre conceived prejudice and managed to find enough evidence to prove your initial idea about the movie was sound which as I said is confirmation bias.

BMMachine

Drumpot wrote: »

The "we didn't need a prequel" bollocks is a red herring and should bear no relevance when discussing a Movie. that means you are not discussing the movie, just the fact you didn't want it but still watched it! If that's what you thought, then you went into this movie with a pre conceived prejudice and managed to find enough evidence to prove your initial idea about the movie was sound which as I said is confirmation bias.

I went in quite excited as I didn't watch any trailers or anything and thought this would be a big step up from Prometheus. I knew very little about the film, purposely, as not to spoil it. I believed in it, glanced at the reviews which seemed reasonably favourable and then, then I watched it.
and it was terrible.

so you can talk about red herrings and prequel talk and whatnot but that means f-all. It was a terrible movie that offered nothing. Pretty CGI and shots mean absolutely nothing if around that is a film as ill conceived and as hollow as this. The joke decisions the characters make in the film are the least of its crimes.

Keyzer

BMMachine wrote: »

Artificial, bad and unnecessary. Thats what this film is. And then when you take into account that for some reason this film is telling you how the Xenomorph was created and turns out to be complete bullsh*t involving an android and black goo then yeah, you just have a big turd. I can't see why or how someone would defend this disaster, especially if they are fans of the originals. Like it has none of what made the originals great in it, it just has the aliens and the shared universe. Why do we need a prequel telling us where the Alien came from? Its in the f**king name ALIEN, as in, WE DON'T KNOW. thats the whole thing behind the movie Ridley, we don't know and can't explain what it is, its ALIEN to us. And hes making another one? christ. but sure f**k it, Han Solo movie, Jurassic World, just keep hittin them home runs

Couldn't agree more with this statement.

The whole mystery of where the alien came only made them more sinister and terrifying. Now its been explained away in a bullsh1t way by the very director who made the first film.

Giruilla

BMMachine wrote: »

Yeah sure, things look pretty and the set design was pretty good if a little hamhanded in the Giger references but that isn't atmosphere, thats aesthetic.

I actually thought almost the entire film looked awful. Half of it was set inside a cave... just a dark studio cave. It was filled with weird camera angle shots during action scenes - andoird fight looked like a jackie chan film. The cgi alien on top of the ship scenes.. I couldn't even tell what was happening.

BMMachine

Giruilla wrote: »

I actually thought almost the entire film looked awful. Half of it was set inside a cave... just a dark studio cave. It was filled with weird camera angle shots during action scenes - andoird fight looked like a jackie chan film. The cgi alien on top of the ship scenes.. I couldn't even tell what was happening.

aye thats fair. I liked the sweeping shots of the planet and the design of the ship. Didn't like the look of the neomorph aliens or whatever they were. The alien itself was pretty meh, didnt move or act like the one I knew. Its amazing to think how much money was spent on this movie, how much time and this is what they came up with. insane.

PhiloCypher

Drumpot wrote: »

Yeh, I think you are getting more to the major issue, there was no real character development and no real character to root for. I believe characters are capable of making the mistakes made in these movies but we didn't know enough about the character for it to really mean anything. I chose to just accept people can be that stupid, which I believe they can, but I understand why people find it annoying.

I watched this three times in the cinema. First time I was a bit disappointed, but I still enjoyed it. Second time I found it fun. Third time I loved the ending where the Alien pegs it towards the cargo ship collecting them..

The biggest problem with that line of thinking is it excuses all sorts of ****ty writing in ****ty films. Because by your reckoning if we havent ran a mile in Charlizes shoes as a giant wheel shaped space ship came rolling towards us or in Shia''s as a giant decepticon smashes through our home we have no right to judge . So I guess what I'm wondering is do you hold all films to the same standards or just the ones you're obviously invested enough in to see 3 times despite thinking it was disappointing the first time ?

BMMachine

the guy that has seen this 3 times in the cinema is telling me I might have 'confirmation bias' and have a skewed view on the film.

Its amazing how people work so hard to protect themselves and their opinions, especially when it comes to culture like films, games, music etc.


It is okay to like something even if its bad. You don't have to do mental flip flops to elevate the bad thing to a pre-conceived acceptable standard. Be objective

lazybones32

Cov. was released on iTunes and contained more deleted scenes (more scenes will come with the blu-ray, i'm sure...just like dlc stuff for games). They didn't add an awful lot to the story itself but add some clarity/backstory to why David killed Shaw.
Want to hear a spoiler? David used Shaw to create xenomorphs and implies that he is going to perfect them through Daniels (the Queen is going to be the result of David's tinkering with Daniels) So, the aliens are our and the black goo's 'children'. 30 years to come up with a decent storyline and this is it...it's a small fooking Universe.

Ipso

They should have just went all Lovecraftian cosmic insignificance, instead of a bored robot in his bat cave.

Tony EH

lazybones32 wrote: »

Cov. was released on iTunes and contained more deleted scenes (more scenes will come with the blu-ray, i'm sure...just like dlc stuff for games). They didn't add an awful lot to the story itself but add some clarity/backstory to why David killed Shaw.
Want to hear a spoiler? David used Shaw to create xenomorphs and implies that he is going to perfect them through Daniels (the Queen is going to be the result of David's tinkering with Daniels) So, the aliens are our and the black goo's 'children'. 30 years to come up with a decent storyline and this is it...it's a small fooking Universe.

God...that's just terrible on so many levels.

I won't be watching the next one.

TerrorFirmer

Tony EH wrote: »

God...that's just terrible on so many levels.

I won't be watching the next one.

Someone needs to edit Alien: Covenant and Ridley Scott into this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=matxz-G9q8M

Bowlardo

Had a watch as it was on sky movies tonight. Poor poor film.

Church on Tuesday

Some little nice nods to the original here and there, but that was about all there was to like about it.

I don't like how the origins of the Xenomorph/Protomorph/whatever can be traced back to Davids experiments. It's just kinda underwhelming that an android with a chip on his shoulder is the creator.

Then there's the mural shown in Prometheus which depicts what already looks like a Xeno.

Very confusing.

flatty

After a mediocre beginning it deteriorated into a hammer house of horror type production, which I couldn't even finish watching. I am an alien fan, I even enjoyed alien 4, but it's the worst of them all. It's not quite as bad as the desecration of Star Wars, but it's not far off. In my opinion of course.

Sin City

Its a pity Ridley listen to the fans after Prometheus
It could have been a better movie had he done what he was planning to do

Sin City

Sin City wrote: »

Its a pity Ridley listen to the fans after Prometheus
It could have been a better movie had he done what he was planning to do

Loved Prometheus, was hopining for Prometheus 2.

Went to see Covenant in the cinema and although there was lots I didn’t like I still enjoyed it.

Watched it again on Saturday on Sky and what a load of crap. Crap cgi, really dodgy script, and ridiculous storyline concerning david. Ridley is really good at asking questions, but really bad at answering them

As always, great world, great set pieces, but underneath it’s rotten

Defunkd

Sin City wrote: »

Its a pity Ridley listen to the fans after Prometheus
It could have been a better movie had he done what he was planning to do

That has goosed the series now...tbh i have less respect for him since he caved to public demand. He should have told his story and let it be accepted or rejected.

That said, the deleted and bonus material and scrapped storyboards from Prometheus give so much more info and could have made a cracking film. A youtube channel -Kroft talks about movies - is a serious Alien head and got nearly everything available. Check him out if your intrrestrd but his voice annoys some people.

klose

Watched it again on sky, the Walter/David twist will surely go down as one of the most obvious foreseeable twists in cinema history?

bullvine

Defunkd wrote: »

That has goosed the series now...tbh i have less respect for him since he caved to public demand. He should have told his story and let it be accepted or rejected.

That said, the deleted and bonus material and scrapped storyboards from Prometheus give so much more info and could have made a cracking film. A youtube channel -Kroft talks about movies - is a serious Alien head and got nearly everything available. Check him out if your intrrestrd but his voice annoys some people.

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I loved his explanation of Prometheus, completely spot on.

Sin City

Deleted User wrote: »

Loved Prometheus, was hopining for Prometheus 2.

Went to see Covenant in the cinema and although there was lots I didn’t like I still enjoyed it.

Watched it again on Saturday on Sky and what a load of crap. Crap cgi, really dodgy script, and ridiculous storyline concerning david. Ridley is really good at asking questions, but really bad at answering them

As always, great world, great set pieces, but underneath it’s rotten

Id be the same
Though Prometheus was good and if he went in the same direction as that I think it would have added to the story line in a positive way

Sin City

Defunkd wrote: »

That has goosed the series now...tbh i have less respect for him since he caved to public demand. He should have told his story and let it be accepted or rejected.

That said, the deleted and bonus material and scrapped storyboards from Prometheus give so much more info and could have made a cracking film. A youtube channel -Kroft talks about movies - is a serious Alien head and got nearly everything available. Check him out if your intrrestrd but his voice annoys some people.

Thanks Ill check it out tonight

johnpatrick81

Finally got round to this. Glad i didn’t pay money towards it.

I actually really liked Prometheus but this was borderline straight to dvd fare. So ridiculously stupid. I agree with all the criticisms and the videos mocking it with never ending WHY?! questions.

It was actually ok up til David came on board and then it just lost its sh!t completely and went full retard.

Such a pity.

DaveyDave

I've been meaning to watch this. I've heard poor things but I'll give it a chance. Actually just looked at the Blu-ray on my shelf just now and now I see this thread. It's a sign!

Watching John Wick now though, might watch it later...

Mike Litoris

DaveyDave wrote: »

Watching John Wick now though, might watch it later...

Watch John Wick 2 after......don't be tempted to watch Covenant. Just don't.

CatFromHue

I was up for the Aliens in this film

The White Wolf

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Some little nice nods to the original here and there, but that was about all there was to like about it.

I don't like how the origins of the Xenomorph/Protomorph/whatever can be traced back to Davids experiments. It's just kinda underwhelming that an android with a chip on his shoulder is the creator.

Then there's the mural shown in Prometheus which depicts what already looks like a Xeno.

Very confusing.

Apologies for the bump but I watched this again. As you say the mural depicted the Xeno in Prometheus so I don't think he created them.

However......I believe that the Alien Queen may be a David Creation. It would be an interesting way of reconciling Ridley's vision with Cameron's.

I do hope Alien Awakening gets made for nothing more than putting a bloody full stop on the story!

Kidchameleon

Have a read of the original script of Prometheus (when it was still called Alien: Engineers). It explains everything. The engineers found the deacon on a planet (this is the very life form depicted in the mural) They worshiped it as the thought is was the greatest example of evolution. The substance that the engineer drinks at the start of Prometheus is the actual blood of the deacon.

The White Wolf

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a read of the original script of Prometheus (when it was still called Alien: Engineers). It explains everything. The engineers found the deacon on a planet (this is the very life form depicted in the mural) They worshiped it as the thought is was the greatest example of evolution. The substance that the engineer drinks at the start of Prometheus is the actual blood of the deacon.

Ah...so the Deacon isn't what we've come to know as a Xenomorph?

Kidchameleon

The White Wolf wrote: »

Ah...so the Deacon isn't what we've come to know as a Xenomorph?

Well, bear in mind the draft script is not cannon. They found the deacon and for whatever reason, knew it was the last one. They tried to recreate one by seeding planets (like we saw at the start of Prometheus)


A summary you may find interesting:


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=301490

Tony EH

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a read of the original script of Prometheus (when it was still called Alien: Engineers). It explains everything. The engineers found the deacon on a planet (this is the very life form depicted in the mural) They worshiped it as the thought is was the greatest example of evolution. The substance that the engineer drinks at the start of Prometheus is the actual blood of the deacon.

As bad as Ridley Scott's destruction of the Alien series has been, the above doesn't sound any better.

How can a supposedly intelligent set of beings, like the "Engineers" think that the deacon or xenomorph be "the greatest example of evolution", or worse yet, "worship" it. These creatures just breed and destroy everything. Not exactly a high standard of evolution.

I suppose one could say that about these piss poor Alien prequels too.

pixelburp

If there's one positive to be taken out of the Fox-Disney merger, it's that apparently future Alien (and DieHard, to name another) projects have been shelved. The franchise is dead, the inherent mystery and danger deriving from this unknowable horror eroded by Scott's two followups. Prometheus still gets a pass from me, if only because it kept that mystery just about contained behind the veil of the ruined Engineer ship. Covenant blew that mystery out of the water though, and as said above, reduced the xenomorphs to an invention by a mad-scientist-android. Welp. From a cosmic horror, to a Frankenstein's monster, what a comedown.

Kidchameleon

Tony EH wrote: »

As bad as Ridley Scott's destruction of the Alien series has been, the above doesn't sound any better.

How can a supposedly intelligent set of beings, like the "Engineers" think that the deacon or xenomorph be "the greatest example of evolution", or worse yet, "worship" it. These creatures just breed and destroy everything. Not exactly a high standard of evolution.

I suppose one could say that about these piss poor Alien prequels too.

True enough. I would say that had they made Covenant at the time is was called Paradise Lost, it would have lifted the first film though.

I enjoyed the recent films for all their flaws.

Mr_Muffin

"I'll do the fingering".

Man Vs ManUre

Prometheus was great but this Covenant was absolute rubbish.

Homelander

Prometheus gets a rough time for some reason but I thought it was the best film since Aliens and genuinely a great, moody and atmospheric film with decent horror elements. Covenant was fairly terrible, totally brainless and destroyed the mystery and potential surrounding the origin of the Xeno. I'd say Alien, Aliens, Prometheus, Alien3, Covenant, Resurrection, but the last two are particularly bad.

Mike Litoris

Homelander wrote: »

Prometheus gets a rough time for some reason but I thought it was the best film since Aliens and genuinely a great, moody and atmospheric film with decent horror elements.

I agree but some of the characters were ropey and the dialogue was atrocious in places. Still thoroughly enjoyed it though.