What should the ICU website do?

HaraldSchmidt

As there has been no code changes made to the ICU website over the past year, I would like to know what new functionality people would like. As a start, I'll give my top wish:

1. Add a game viewer to the games page, so you don't have to play the game blindfold, or download it and play it in Chessbase.

Sparks

1. Work. No more falling over mid-national-championships.
2. Be apolitical. No more AGM billboarding.
3. Be singular. No more having icu.ie and irishchessunion.net. One NGB, one website, one easily-remembered point of contact.
4. Be written for complete newbies as well as veterans. Right now, you would do a great disservice to any person looking to get into chess by sending them to icu.ie. That shouldn't be the case.
5. Be updated often with good content.



None of those require new features; they all require the basics to work first.

pawntof4

Sparks wrote: »

1. Work. No more falling over mid-national-championships.
2. Be apolitical. No more AGM billboarding.
3. Be singular. No more having icu.ie and irishchessunion.net. One NGB, one website, one easily-remembered point of contact.
4. Be written for complete newbies as well as veterans. Right now, you would do a great disservice to any person looking to get into chess by sending them to icu.ie. That shouldn't be the case.
5. Be updated often with good content.



None of those require new features; they all require the basics to work first.

The last one is will be tough. Would it be worth paying someone to this i.e. pay a GM to anotate some games from each tournament? Maybe to fit in with no. 4 the GM could annotate 1 game from each section of each tournament.

I don't see that being too costly either. I've seen some GMs quoting 25 euro a game but they might charge more if the annotated games were to he published.

Regarding points 1, 2 and 3 I couldn't agree more.

reunion

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

As there has been no code changes made to the ICU website over the past year, I would like to know what new functionality people would like. As a start, I'll give my top wish:

1. Add a game viewer to the games page, so you don't have to play the game blindfold, or download it and play it in Chessbase.

Well honestly, does the ICU website cater for beginners? advanced players? Trainers? Tournament organisers? Are we talking about the main page or the site in general?

There has been a lot of good work done on the site but I think it mainly needs a designer and a refresh of content not a coder at present (functionality is fine atm).

Main page:
This needs to be changed with these questions in mind:
I'm a new player, what do I need to know and where do I go?
I want to set up a club, what do I have to do and what help can I get?
I want to play in a tournament, what are available and what do I need before I play? (national and abroad)
How can I pay my ICU fee?
I want to organise a tournament, what support do the ICU offer me? What do I need to do?
I want to teach chess, what do I have to do to get qualified?
I want to learn chess (via a coach), who can I contact and what type of training should I be looking for?
My daughter/son wants to play chess, what do I need to know?
I want to be an arbiter, what do I need to do to become one?
I am an arbiter, how do I know what tournaments are available for me to be an arbiter?

Comments:
At present, if I wanted to become an arbiter, I have to check out a different website that isn't mentioned on the icu.ie site.
If I wanted a list of registered trainers, I have to know to go to the FIDE site - How does a parent find a trainer? or an adult wanting to learn to play?
If I wanted tournament news, I have to find the calendar - If I log in, I should be able to search for tournaments in my region and applicable to me (i.e. if I'm not a junior, hide the junior events and if I want an event in Ireland, hide foreign tournaments)
If I wanted to know about chess in schools, I have to check out a different website that isn't mentioned on the icu.ie site - How does a school find out about this project on the icu.ie site?
If I wanted minutes or agendas, I have to search the news items - Tags I guess would be a good addition
If I wanted an updated constitution, I have to piece together bits and pieces - content needs updating on the site on at least a 6 month basis.

JohnDelaney

I agree with the point that there is a need to think about how different users experience the website.

I would add a need for a Junior Rating system as a key to providing a service from the ICU to under 18s (who would then join ICU). That seems to be a key recruiting tool going forward.

tedjennings

I would like to support Reunion’s comments.

Web sites should be relevant to the people that they serve not just a well scripted page that the webmaster/organisers thinks looks pretty.

As webmaster for bunrattychess I have on occasions fell into this trap but thankfully by heeding feedback I hope most of what I produce is relevant and informative to those who want more info re Bunratty.

As experienced chess people we can sometimes forget that others are not as familiar with both the playing and organisational aspects of the game therefore this should be foremost in the mind of those charged with task of maintaining the ICU web site.

cdeb

I think the website is quite good - worth emphasising that in light of all the criticism of the ICU recently. There's lots of info there, it's easy to navigate, it's updated regularly - all the basics are covered really. In general, when I have to use it, I find it very easy to find what I'm looking for.

Some of reunion's ideas are covered already, using the drop-down "More" menu instead of tags. But then select Juniors, and you get how to play chess, the benefits of playing chess, links to clubs with junior set-ups, upcoming junior events, etc, etc - it's all quite neat actually. The areas I think need to be added to regularly over time and they'll build up - but I think that happens anyway.

An FAQ and a beginners' section (maybe with a focus on adult players like this) wouldn't be a bad idea at all in the drop-down menu

That said, I like this idea -

pawntof4 wrote: »

Would it be worth paying someone to this i.e. pay a GM to anotate some games from each tournament? Maybe to fit in with no. 4 the GM could annotate 1 game from each section of each tournament.

And seeing as I wouldn't have thought of that, I guess I'm not the right person to be looking to for more ideas like it!

Rrydlny

I think a simple feature would be to have a small calendar on the homepage (maybe just underneath the navbar) showing upcoming events within the next 30 days. That way visitors to the site can see what tournaments are coming up immediately and can click on a link to it for more details.

reunion

cdeb wrote: »

There's lots of info there, it's easy to navigate, it's updated regularly - all the basics are covered really. In general, when I have to use it, I find it very easy to find what I'm looking for.

Some of reunion's ideas are covered already, using the drop-down "More" menu instead of tags. But then select Juniors, and you get how to play chess, the benefits of playing chess, links to clubs with junior set-ups, upcoming junior events, etc, etc - it's all quite neat actually. The areas I think need to be added to regularly over time and they'll build up - but I think that happens anyway.

I disagree, you are viewing the website as a user who has used this website for sometime. The current layout and structure makes it hard for people to navigate. Not many people want to navigate a site for information! That just turns people away.

If I handed the website to a friend (who has never used the website before and doesn't really play chess) and asked them:
1. To find the next tournament coming up in their area - they would probably click ICU (why else are they on the icu website but to find out about the icu?), they might try HELP or they might try more and click tournaments (which is past tournaments (more accurately results)). None of which actually brought them to the correct location about upcoming tournaments.

2. Ask them to find out information about running a tournament - they will click everywhere and find nothing. How would they know they can apply for a grant to run a tournament from the ICU? What do they need to run one? Do they need an arbiter? Does everyone have to be an ICU member?

3. Ask them to set up a club - again, click everywhere and find nothing. What should they know about starting a club? Do they need an arbiter to run games? Does everyone need to be an ICU member? can the games be rated?

4. Ask them to find information about learning to play - that should not just be under Juniors. That's ridiculous! No adult will check a junior tab to learn how to play! Obviously, this is good for Juniors but not for adults learning to play.

5. Ask them to find information about being an arbiter - they will give up and use google to search for ireland chess arbiter.

6. Ask them to pay their ICU fees - They could try ICU, HELP and shop. But I will point out, shop to me reads more like ICU branded merchandise rather than memberships. If you take the ecf website, they use shop as merchandise and they have membership as a heading with join the ECF as a subheading.

Visit a few websites, ECF website, Chess Scotland, Welsh Chess Union, Chess South Africa and then try the Somalian Chess websites. Pretend you are looking for something specific - membership information, starting a club, whatever 3 or 4 things you choose initially and start rating them in a list (include how frustrated you were) and time yourself. You'll start to see when you don't know anything about a particular organisation or have used the website before, clarity and navigation can be more important than live streaming games or annotated games. People won't stay looking on your site forever, some might give up because they have to spend too long looking for information.

eclipsechaser

Change "Calendar" to "Upcoming Tournaments" or "Future Tournaments"

Change "Tournaments" to "Past Tournaments" or "Tournament Reports"

Change "Shop" to "ICU Membership"or "Join the ICU".


It's incredible the number of parents who have contacted me because they can't find the up-coming tournaments or are trying to subscribe their son or daughter. We're used to the website layout but it doesn't seem to be intuitive to everyone else. Just a minor change in description would help a lot.

pawntof4

reunion wrote: »

Visit a few websites, ECF website, Chess Scotland, Welsh Chess Union, Chess South Africa and then try the Somalian Chess websites. Pretend you are looking for something specific - membership information, starting a club, whatever 3 or 4 things you choose initially and start rating them in a list (include how frustrated you were) and time yourself. You'll start to see when you don't know anything about a particular organisation or have used the website before, clarity and navigation can be more important than live streaming games or annotated games. People won't stay looking on your site forever, some might give up because they have to spend too long looking for information.

This is a fantastic exercise to do as it really demonstrates where improvements can be made on the site. The site only needs a few tweaks really.

reunion

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Change "Calendar" to "Upcoming Tournaments" or "Future Tournaments"

Change "Tournaments" to "Past Tournaments" or "Tournament Reports"

Change "Shop" to "ICU Membership"or "Join the ICU".

It's funny, that literally could be what the website needs. But there is outdated information (constitution) not to mention a whole other site which is confusing (and still owned by Colm Daly).

eclipsechaser wrote: »

It's incredible the number of parents who have contacted me because they can't find the up-coming tournaments or are trying to subscribe their son or daughter. We're used to the website layout but it doesn't seem to be intuitive to everyone else. Just a minor change in description would help a lot.

I think addressing this should be a priority, not the banning and vendettas recently.

rob51

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Change "Calendar" to "Upcoming Tournaments" or "Future Tournaments"

Change "Tournaments" to "Past Tournaments" or "Tournament Reports"

Change "Shop" to "ICU Membership"or "Join the ICU".


It's incredible the number of parents who have contacted me because they can't find the up-coming tournaments or are trying to subscribe their son or daughter. We're used to the website layout but it doesn't seem to be intuitive to everyone else. Just a minor change in description would help a lot.

In fact since it's a website it should be possible to provide the same information via different menu options. To take the learning chess example the same pages could be linked from Junior and Adult sections. No need to be limited to a single path.
In general some very interesting suggestions most of which suggest more or different content rather than any problem with the website itself. Indeed I think it already caters for the idea of allowing multiple contributors.

RQ_ennis_chess

If thinking of doing a serious revamp of the ICU website, instead of guessing what different groups of people might want from the website why not ask them? Maybe do some short focus groups with different groups whose opinions the ICU would take on board... I'm thinking maybe juniors, women players, existing members and probably most importantly potential future members who are coming to the site looking for info on chess in Ireland

Sparks

RQ_ennis_chess wrote: »

potential future members who are coming to the site looking for info on chess in Ireland

If doing this, ensure at least two or three are adults. The level of support for adults looking to take up the game in Ireland is... well, absent until you physically get to a club.

HaraldSchmidt

As lots of people have stated, different groups of people are looking for different sets of information. Maybe, we need a "Treat me as..." Button. The user gets to choose from parent, junior, adult beginner, club player, chess teacher, women etc...

Depending on what the visitor selects, we show the most relevant information and links for them.

pawntof4

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

As lots of people have stated, different groups of people are looking for different sets of information. Maybe, we need a "Treat me as..." Button. The user gets to choose from parent, junior, adult beginner, club player, chess teacher, women etc...

Depending on what the visitor selects, we show the most relevant information and links for them.

I'm not sure about the "Treat me as.." button because I've never really seen it before and it would be hard to cater for every user that way. What happens if the user is a club player, mother of a promising chess player and a chess teacher. Which option does she choose?

The site has so much great stuff, I think making it easier to use should be the top priority of the next person running it.

Sparks

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

Maybe, we need a "Treat me as..." Button.

You get that implicitly when someone logs into the site...

sinbad68

The ICU site is not far from what it should be ( News,Tournament reports ,calendar.. etc ).It's biggest failing is the lack of info for those who want to start playing chess, There should be a tab to give information/explanation for adults/juniors who want to join clubs and/or play in tournaments, a short video would be helpful. On the site itself, Games section there has been no update since November last year and instead of reading notations, we should be able to replay the game on the site itself.There are over 100 clubs advertised on ICU site and many are tiny clubs some of which perhaps have closed, ICU should contact these clubs once a year to see if they are still open, sinbad hates nothing more than Bad info. As for " treat me as " and find me a match as suggested by Herald, ICU is NOT a dating site !.

HaraldSchmidt

Sparks wrote: »

You get that implicitly when someone logs into the site...

Yes, indeed, but it's not fine-grained enough, and it only works if you log in. I suspect that most of the visitors to the site don't log in.

pawntof4 wondered what happens if a user matches multiple groups. Then I would suggest they switch hats.

Sparks

Well, if you log in, you know all the groups they're in, so show all the relevant bits. If you don't you get the "you're a complete novice, here's the basic stuff" view.

pawntof4

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

pawntof4 wondered what happens if a user matches multiple groups. Then I would suggest they switch hats.

The issue I have with that is that it's not very intuitive. How many other sites implement this feature. It sounds great and would make the site look cleaner as it wouldn't be cluttered with lots of unwanted navigation links etc but when a new user comes to the site they'll have to learn how to use it.

I know a lot of people don't want to learn anything new they just want whatever it is they are using to work and that is where I see the button being an issue.

The site should make it as easy as possible for users to access the information they need.

JohnDelaney

Can the website allow people to enter events or join clubs etc

sinbad68

JohnDelaney wrote: »

Can the website allow people to enter events or join clubs etc

Bad idea !. Inserting ICU site as a middleman between individuals & clubs/events will unnecessarily complicate things and give ICU a headache it does not need if there are difficulties, However if organisers want to use a single website for entries to several different events or reporting results, that is not a bad idea. As for joining clubs, you should really go down to the club and join in person and not from home. ICU site should also provide list and info about approved chess coaches as well.

brilliantboy

I agree there should be more chess content on the website.
At the moment the only thing I'm getting for my membership fee is a dodgy rating.
And although the entertainment value in the political bungling of the past year shouldn't be underestimated I think everyone would prefer if it didn't continue.

Perhaps the return of a periodical could be considered. I'm sure there are a few players around that would welcome the spotlight if asked to annotate a game or provide a few puzzles.

EnPassant

What should the ICU website do?

It should do what the ICU Executive want it to do.

tedjennings

EnPassant wrote: »

What should the ICU website do?

It should do what the ICU Executive want it to do.

The web site like other arms of the ICU is for the benefit of all members not just those elected to Office!!

NubieOne

Another idea might be to have the facility on the web site, when it's transmitting live games from one of the Irish events, to allow members to type in live messages about the position / event as the moves are being made.

Even as I type this, a major concern is forming, how would the site's administrator prevent this facility from being used to score cheap political points etc. Ah well, back to the drawing board.

cdeb

You could easily moderate comments as they come in - I can't imagine it would be that busy.

Though it would require someone to do this of course.

reunion

cdeb wrote: »

You could easily moderate comments as they come in - I can't imagine it would be that busy.

Though it would require someone to do this of course.

I believe Bunratty got 10k viewers of the live chess games one year. So it might get that busy...

You could just add a delay. 5 minutes? Reduces the risk of someone seeing move suggestions of the current position.

HaraldSchmidt

A friend of mine mentioned that this thread could be seen as a criticism of Mark Orr's work. It is far from it. Mark probably spent about 6 months full time work creating icu.ie and ratings.icu.ie. The code itself, which is open source on github, is a joy to read, and the whole system has been completely documented, making it reasonably easy for a technical person to take over the running of the site.

In effect, Mark donated 6 months of his time as a professional programmer to the ICU. I would conservatively estimate that to be worth €50,000 and probably closer to €100,000 if you hired a contractor.

reunion

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

A friend of mine mentioned that this thread could be seen as a criticism of Mark Orr's work.

I don't think anyone has said Mark has done a bad job or critisised the code that's been written.

Rather, potentially the layout and some terminology. Nothing major really (in my opinion)

Tim Harding

One minor thing I would recommend is that stale news is removed promptly e.g. announcements of events that have already taken place (like the City Of Dublin) can still be seen if you scroll down the main page of www.icu.ie

Most of the stuff that's there should probably be in a News sub-menu.

I agree that "Shop" is wrong. That should be "Join" or something similar.
"Sign Up" should perhaps be "Register".

Paying a GM to annotate games, as has been suggested, is a waste of money. You cannot compete with the likes of Chess24.

Of course the irishchessunion.net site should be closed down, though if the ICU does not own it that could be troublesome?

Finally, if the icu.ie official site implements any kind of comment feature (which is doubtful) it would need to be very carefully moderated with a lawyer's eye.
It should absolutely NOT be possible for anybody (as happened last month on the .net site) to post derogatory comments about anyone, and especially not under the name of a member who didn't even write that message. The site should keep strictly to facts.

pawntof4

Tim Harding wrote: »

Paying a GM to annotate games, as has been suggested, is a waste of money. You cannot compete with the likes of Chess24.

I wasn't suggesting that we try to compete with those sites. The annotation of games from ICU tournaments by a GM could add something to the tournament, especially for lower rated players. I can't see any games from Drogheda's minor section ending up on Chess24

Tim Harding

pawntof4 wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting that we try to compete with those sites. The annotation of games from ICU tournaments by a GM could add something to the tournament, especially for lower rated players. I can't see any games from Drogheda's minor section ending up on Chess24

Fair enough but you don't need to pay anyone, least of all a GM, to annotate the best game from the Drogheda minor. There are probably a few 2000+ players who would do it occasionally if asked nicely. Of course if the notes chiefly consisted of engine variations there wouldn't be much point.

zug_zwang

I think the website should be a tool for promoting chess in Ireland both as a portal for Irish chess players, but also information for those who may become chess players.
The website should contain information about forthcoming tournaments, events, reports from tournaments in Ireland and from Irish players who have played internationally, information and links to the provincial unions, chess in schools, and events in world chess. Articles on chess players from interviews or indeed on chess clubs could be interesting for chess players and clubs to share their story. Also historical information on previous Irish chess figures and tournaments hosted here.

I however do not think it should be a forum for washing your dirty laundry in public, what impression must this give to the non Irish chess insider who would view the website.

GaborHorvath

Tim Harding wrote: »

Fair enough but you don't need to pay anyone, least of all a GM, to annotate the best game from the Drogheda minor. There are probably a few 2000+ players who would do it occasionally if asked nicely. Of course if the notes chiefly consisted of engine variations there wouldn't be much point.

As a 2000+ player I wouldn't mind analysing a few games occasionally if asked nicely. Say, a few games from every bigger tournament. I am sure there would be more volunteers.

iriship

Just to say, I do think the website needs work to navigate better. BUT its hard work and there will all way be some who thinks its wrong.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who do the work.

sinbad68

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

What should the ICU website do ?

The ICU website should remind the new crowd in ICU, that they have forgotten all about the Irish women championship this year!.

Tim Harding

sinbad68 wrote: »

The ICU website should remind the new crowd in ICU, that they have forgotten all about the Irish women championship this year!.

The announcement of the Women's Championship (to be held after Christmas) is still on the main icu.ie news page, but you have to scroll down to find it below other stuff which is now out of date and should be moved to an archive page.

vigos

As an adult beginner just starting to look into how to get started with the basics it was one of the first sites that came up but found nothing useful, on the other hand this forum has thrown up some useful threads

Tim Harding

vigos wrote: »

As an adult beginner just starting to look into how to get started with the basics it was one of the first sites that came up but found nothing useful, on the other hand this forum has thrown up some useful threads

The Irish Chess Union site should certainly offer something for local beginners - how to find your nearest club for example - but cannot be expected to provide lessons for beginners. They chiefly need generic chess sites where they can play games, watch master tournaments and find coaching information.
I recommend chess24.com and I expect other forum members can suggest their favourites also.

historian

I realise that those charged with administering the ICU website have had their hands full recently, However, now that they appear to have managed to wrest control of the domain name back from the cyber squatter, perhaps they might address the quality of the front page (news). The last 15 news postings have been terse one- or two-liners. Could some consideration be given by those responsible (Webmaster, PRO, Chairman) to the current dire nature of the news items.

For instance, this news item http://www.icu.ie/news/1270 on forthcoming events links to this article http://www.icu.ie/articles/516. As the article is only 125 words long, it is clearly redundant and could simply have been a news item.

There are a number of news items in those 15 posts advertising various events, either completed, underway or still to be held. Could an editor provide some context for these in the news items or failing that ask the organisation being advertised for an adequate exposition (even 100 words would be something) of their event.

sinbad68

historian wrote: »

The last 15 news postings have been terse one- or two-liners. Could some consideration be given by those responsible (Webmaster, PRO, Chairman) to the current dire nature of the news items.

For instance, this news item http://www.icu.ie/news/1270 on forthcoming events links to this article http://www.icu.ie/articles/516. As the article is only 125 words long, it is clearly redundant and could simply have been a news item.

The current structure is superior to previous one, when 2 or 3 articles used to fill up the whole news section on homepage. Much more info and articles can now be fitted on homepage using two liners, if you are interested in the event or the info, you can click on the link and read about it.I totally disagree with you about your complaint.

boy98

What should the ICU website do?

be working

sinbad68

ICU having a facebook page is a positive development,well done to executive, but it should have a permanent link on ICU homepage, if you look for it in facebook search, several accounts with similar names shows up and can be confusing.

sinbad68

ICU homepage has become very dynamic and now has a link for facebook account which is great, Many tournaments are advertised and you can comment there, If you post comments under a tournament there, do organisers read & respond there or Not ?

I am going to Gonzaga next, was checking the event on ICU facebook

https://www.facebook.com/events/1670494693209316/

Why does it say, they hope to top the 123 turnout last year when 152 players played last year ?!!.

I played in gonzaga last year , the top section was split and put in 2 separate small rooms away from the main playing hall, presumably for more peace and quiet, But this was simply a case of from frying pan into the fire . The doors of these rooms would slam close with a loud bang anytime anyone was entering or leaving the room ( basically every minute)and caused great nuisance, don't take my word for it, ask our current ICU PR who spent a few minutes trying to fix it, I put a folded piece of paper beside the hinge of doors in both rooms , so the doors would gently land on their frame without slamming close but clueless individuals kept removing it. Keeping doors wide open would expose rooms to cold and noise from corridor.It would be good if organisers do something with doors and if they won't, then bring top section to the main hall as it much easier to desensitise to constant chatter & mild noise in the background than...... silence ....BANG....silence...BANG !.

Tim Harding

sinbad68 wrote: »

I played in gonzaga last year , the top section was split and put in 2 separate small rooms away from the main playing hall, presumably for more peace and quiet, But this was simply a case of from frying pan into the fire . ..

I wish it had been fire. The two rooms were cold, especially the comparatively empty one with fewer boards. I was almost shivering on the Sunday and when it wasn't my move went to the main room where there was some heat.

DmanDmythDledge

New layout on the ICU homepage is a great improvement.

sinbad68

ICU facebook is great, personally speaking, I think only ICU members should be allowed to post comments ( by becoming friends of ICU facebook account)and we don't get spamming as we are getting now. Putting events in chronological order would also help and once event is passed, it goes to the bottom of page, I'm busy now but hope to create a facebook account where I will discuss my thoughts on chess without having my posts snipped and deleted, Sinbad didn't cross the seven seas to come to this island to have his freedom of speech curtailed by a keyboard warrior !.

sinbad68

ICU Calendar is one of the most important features on ICU site , why is the tab removed from the top of site and stuck under "upcoming events " with far less visibility?. Thumbing up & down is also an unnecessary gimmick on the site. ICU site has gone under revolutionary changes and greatly improved but perhaps time has come to rest it on the table for a while instead of constantly fiddling with it.