Eir rural FTTH thread

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

Not really. When i first moved to Ireland, I had to fight Eircom 4 months to get DSL in a 2 year old estate right across from Dell in Cabinteely. They claimed the lines were too bad. Turns out, they ran out of ports and didn't want to install another DSLAM. I only managed to get DSL, when I pushed it through Dells Account Manager in Eircom.

When I moved to Galway, I had to build a 20km fixed wireless link across Galway Bay to get broadband. That area didn't get DSL until about 4 years ago.

Another example: Roscam between Oranmore and Galway was one of the first DSL enabled areas there. Then more houses got build and to supply the demand of phone lines, Eircom put in multiplexers. Suddenly anyone after that couldn't get DSL anymore. That wasn't fixed until about 1 or 2 years ago.

I worked all over the country, and that lack of foresight has been the norm. Plenty of other examples, I can pull up. It would be refreshing, if it has changed. I'm just realistic.

There is a reason, that there are so many small Internet Providers all over the country.

/M

There's a big difference between adding ADSL to existing copper infrastructure and building a completely new parallel fibre infrastructure that will eventually supersede the existing copper. It was installed in as many exchanges as possible but never with the idea of supplying 100% of the PSTN customers, just as many as possible. It was better to have 100% of exchanges with about 60% capable of getting ADSL than to have 60% of exchanges with 100% access.

The Cush

All the issues Marlow refer to above are DSL related, shortage of ports/distance related etc., FTTH shouldn't have any of these issues.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I'm sorry that you had such experiences. I'm sure many here could give similar tales. I have been as critical as anyone here of eir and their claims especially the 2018 deadline.

I don't believe, that Eir, SIRO nor eNet will manage to meet their deadlines. The job has been underestimated and especially Eir has a lot of catch up to do, as they have to repair existing stuff at the same time. The one thing that helps them is the NGN infrastructure they've build up over time.

SIRO doesn't need this, as they leave it to the the providers to arrange to meet them. The same principle can apply to OpenEir based providers .. depending on what way they interconnect with OpenEir.

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

However I believe companies can change ethos especially when their core market is threatened. I think suggesting that they would build a brand new network without sufficient expansion capacity is doing those in network design a great disservice.

Eir certainly is threatened in their core market. That's for sure. NTL/UPC/Virgin is something they have ignored for years and as of about 2 years ago, they can't anymore. Now they've also got to compete with 2 other wholesale platforms, so both their retail and wholesale markets are being attacked.

So yes, I certainly hope, they build it with a bit of foresight. I'm just a realist.

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

When I drive through rural areas the only progress I see is predominantly KN Networks doing ground work, running cable and installing distribution boxes all on behalf of eir.

These days, I roam anywhere between the Aran Islands and Athlone, anything from South Mayo to Limerick work wise. And yes, with the FTTH install, they've been out in full force and made short process of building the infrastructure. Where they are being let down is by the engineers installing the final product. Even the providers on the OpenEIR platform are seeing these issues, on a daily basis. That's not a problem caused by Eir, but by their choice of contractor. And the issue there is, that Eir is a slow freighter, that doesn't make quick decisions. So it takes a long time to rectify issues. Hence the delays in their roll-out.

Between Sligo and Carrick-on-Shannon for example, you barely have 3G, no DSL and all they are currently rolling out in the villages is FTTC. If you're 2km out around Lough Key or Lough Arrow, you're out of luck. Leitrim is the same, mostly. Those are all areas planned for end 2018.

In Galway Eir bypassed some dense suburbs with no decent broadband and then enabled small enclaves around Galway Bay and Lough Corrib. Those builds show more like attempts to remove areas from the NBP, so that nobody gets funding to serve them.

/M

Marlow

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a big difference between adding ADSL to existing copper infrastructure and building a completely new parallel fibre infrastructure that will eventually supersede the existing copper. It was installed in as many exchanges as possible but never with the idea of supplying 100% of the PSTN customers, just as many as possible. It was better to have 100% of exchanges with about 60% capable of getting ADSL than to have 60% of exchanges with 100% access.

The thing is, what's being done here now, has been done in Scandinavia over 10 years ago. In the meanwhile Eir has been installing outdated infrastructure.

It doesn't quite provide confidence, that they are getting it right this time. Generally they only get things done, when the regulator forces them. So the competition this time around is a good thing.

/M

Pangea

Marlow wrote: »

In theory, yes .. if there's space on the DP and not all ports used.

/M

Thanks, my brother just built a house and the fibre is on his road so he's wondering can he get it.

BarryM

Marlow wrote: »

People cling to the NBP, when it's just the 3rd (or 4th) useless government attempt at archieving nothing and wasting tax money. Why would you think, that this attempt would be successful in any way, when any previous attempt first got budget cuts, and then failed, as it was half baked or worse in the first place ?/M

Whoa! The actual (or to be more precise, vaguely suggested) NBP is a mess, but, since we live in a world of privatised telecom, as our gov keeps reminding us, some people will never get any FTTx, 'cos private suppliers won't be bothered.

So, a properly planned and executed plan would allow for everybody to have the CHOICE. All we want is that.

+, the remark about eir upstaging the NBP in a post above doesn't make sense, even if it is probably true. eir want to get a major bit of the NBP, to subsidise their already high pricing, but want to be paid to do the hard bits, so, why bypass the easy parts (revenue generating areas) to do the relatively hard parts? Doesn't make sense to me.

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

The thing is, what's being done here now, has been done in Scandinavia over 10 years ago. In the meanwhile Eir has been installing outdated infrastructure.

It doesn't quite provide confidence, that they are getting it right this time. Generally they only get things done, when the regulator forces them. So the competition this time around is a good thing.

/M

Not really. Huawei are one of/the biggest OEM in the space, OE is their trial partner. Yes copper may be close to EOL but VDS2+INP+Supervector is in no way outdated yet. Its bleeding edge..

Eir of Today isn't 90s eircom, as the old P&T cohort retire the mindset has gradually changed.

BarryM

Marlow wrote: »

The thing is, what's being done here now, has been done in Scandinavia over 10 years ago. /M

...is still being done, Finland has 100Mb everywhere, provided as a subsidised infrastucture, for operators to plug in to. Our wafflers spent 2+years waiting for EU agreement to "provide state aid" and haven't yet even started to do it.

ED E

BarryM wrote: »

...is still being done, Finland has 100Mb everywhere, provided as a subsidised infrastucture, for operators to plug in to. Our wafflers spent 2+years waiting for EU agreement to "provide state aid" and haven't yet even started to do it.

Pedant: FI isn't Scandinavia, its Fennoscandia

Also they have a large cohort on 700Mhz LTE as fixed line services just don't make sense in the north/east.

Johnboy1951

BarryM wrote: »

...

+, the remark about eir upstaging the NBP in a post above doesn't make sense, even if it is probably true. eir want to get a major bit of the NBP, to subsidise their already high pricing, but want to be paid to do the hard bits, so, why bypass the easy parts (revenue generating areas) to do the relatively hard parts? Doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe to get 'out there' in the time allotted and have the infrastructure and time to 'fill in' what has been passed once the 'area' can be seen to be commercially services.

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

Not really. Huawei are one of/the biggest OEM in the space, OE is their trial partner. Yes copper may be close to EOL but VDS2+INP+Supervector is in no way outdated yet. Its bleeding edge...

Both SIRO and OpenEir are actually using Huawei. I'm not so sure what eNet are using.

Also, I'm not saying that copper is outdated. But the copper used in Ireland hasn't quite the quality it needs to keep up with tech. Nor is the fact of its sloppy installation helping it's reliability.

/M

Marlow

BarryM wrote: »

So, a properly planned and executed plan would allow for everybody to have the CHOICE. All we want is that.

That would require the NBP to be defined and executed right. I'll leave that here.

Right now, what the NBP does, is that houses who are marked as part of the NBP already and who get passed with Fiber, can't avail of the service, as Eir is not permitted to connect them. So it actually does the entire opposite.

/M

frozenfrozen

Marlow wrote: »

That would require the NBP to be defined and executed right. I'll leave that here.

Right now, what the NBP does, is that houses who are marked as part of the NBP already and who get passed with Fiber, can't avail of the service, as Eir is not permitted to connect them. So it actually does the entire opposite.

/M

That hasn't proved to be true for us. We are marked for NBP, but already had an install attempt with eir ftth

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

Pedant: FI isn't Scandinavia, its Fennoscandia

Also they have a large cohort on 700Mhz LTE as fixed line services just don't make sense in the north/east.

Jup.

In Denmark rural homes got connected with GigE interface by the electricity providers over a decade ago .. before Urban services were rolled out. The reason being, that no planning was needed in rural areas and villages. In the cities they had to apply for planning and were only allowed to open the roads when other services in the road had been notified so that works could be combined.

In Sweden urban areas got VDSL and FTTH even before that.

/M

The Cush

Marlow wrote: »

Right now, what the NBP does, is that houses who are marked as part of the NBP already and who get passed with Fiber, can't avail of the service, as Eir is not permitted to connect them.

Discussed here previously, there is no such clause, in fact properties in the NBP have have been connected.

Marlow

The Cush wrote: »

Discussed here previously, there is no such clause, in fact properties in the NBP have have been connected.

Still seems to be a problem for people though, as it is clear from the discussion in the Eir Fibre Rollout Map thread. I've come across the same scenario myself in some areas.

/M

The Cush

Marlow wrote: »

Still seems to be a problem for people though, as it is clear from the discussion in the Eir Fibre Rollout Map thread. I've come across the same scenario myself in some areas

No doubt they're being selective where they do extend into the NBP areas, we don't know what criteria they're using when they do this.

KOR101

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

It is possible that the 6122 figure as quoted by the Department is the correct figure for premises connected under the rural 300,000 scheme.

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/latest-news/Pages/Latest-News.aspx

Richard Moat mentions 12000 in a Silicon Republic interview. Perhaps this is their combined FTTH connection number (urban and rural). Although he does mention rural he may be confusing the totals or he may have been misquoted.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/eir-richard-moat

And remember, the 6122 connections were for the over 70,000 homes 'passed'. So, we're already talking about a puzzlingly low take-up rate. The question mark in my mind was more about whether those 70,000 were really ready for connection. If Marlow has an inside track to real number it would be fascinating.

Blogin

KOR101 wrote: »

And remember, the 6122 connections were for the over 70,000 homes 'passed'. So, we're already talking about a puzzlingly low take-up rate. The question mark in my mind was more about whether those 70,000 were really ready for connection. If Marlow has an inside track to real number it would be fascinating.

70 euro a month is just too high. Most people I know won't be getting it. All they need is a basic internet service and mobile broadband does that at 1/3 of the price.

frozenfrozen

Blogin wrote: »

70 euro a month is just too high. Most people I know won't be getting it. All they need is a basic internet service and mobile broadband does that at 1/3 of the price.

It's not 70 per month for broadband only

tsue921i8wljb3

Blogin wrote: »

70 euro a month is just too high. Most people I know won't be getting it. All they need is a basic internet service and mobile broadband does that at 1/3 of the price.

There is a 150Mb standalone broadband product available for €55 per month. It's not quite as cheap as mobile but it is so much better.

https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/sites/default/.content/pdf/pricing/Part3.1.pdf

Blogin

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

There is a 150Mb standalone broadband product available for €55 per month. It's not quite as cheap as mobile but it is so much better.

https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/sites/default/.content/pdf/pricing/Part3.1.pdf

Thanks for that link. I've been looking at the one on the eir site where it seems you need to get UK landline calls also (6 months at 35 euro and then 6 months at 70 euro, after that 75 euro for the 150mb package). Works out 30 euro cheaper for the first year.

rob808

I want to pre-order 150mb I have broadband only option on my DSL.The girl I call early in the month from Eir said that my line could cease if I pre-order.I wonder would she being confused think it was FTTC couldn't see my DSl being turn off before I get FTTH.

Marlow

Blogin wrote: »

70 euro a month is just too high. Most people I know won't be getting it. All they need is a basic internet service and mobile broadband does that at 1/3 of the price.

Agreed. For the majority of irish broadband users approx 30 EUR (total) is the max. The landline rental of over 25 EUR (think it's about 28 these days) makes it impossible to deliver broadband on copper or fiber around that pricing. And Eir/OpenEIR hiked the pricing in August 2016, even for wholesale. And a landline is not so important for many people anymore as anyone has a mobile for calls.

Power Users will be ok to pay the higher prices, but average Joe won't. It's the reason that those WISPs, who actually take care of their customers, don't see too many customers wandering off.

The only reason there's some take up at those prices, is that business are pushing for home office workplaces to save cost for offices. Once they pay the broadband price, it doesn't matter too much. And then the speed is needed.

/M

westyIrl

Anyone got a FTTH bill to hand?

Does line rental apply to FTTH also and if so what is the rate?

Jim

BarryM

Marlow wrote: »

Right now, what the NBP does,

"does" ? vague blobs on maps? Can you specify anywhere that is "passed" by active fibre and is part of NBP actually.

as Eir is not permitted to connect them.

not permitted by whom, when?

BarryM

Marlow wrote: »

Jup.

In Denmark rural homes got connected with GigE interface by the electricity providers over a decade ago .. before Urban services were rolled out. The reason being, that no planning was needed in rural areas and villages. In the cities they had to apply for planning and were only allowed to open the roads when other services in the road had been notified so that works could be combined.

In Sweden urban areas got VDSL and FTTH even before that.

/M

"Great little country to do business"

BarryM

The Cush wrote: »

Discussed here previously, there is no such clause, in fact properties in the NBP have have been connected.

See my reply to Marlow, where? when? Since the contract signed with eir by the Dept., there are no specified NBP areas, technically, 'cos eir hasn't provided detailed locations of where they will connect.

addict

rob808 wrote: »

I want to pre-order 150mb I have broadband only option on my DSL.The girl I call early in the month from Eir said that my line could cease if I pre-order.I wonder would she being confused think it was FTTC couldn't see my DSl being turn off before I get FTTH.

Order by post code only then your sure of not losing service

turbbo

Marlow wrote: »

In Galway Eir bypassed some dense suburbs with no decent broadband and then enabled small enclaves around Galway Bay and Lough Corrib. Those builds show more like attempts to remove areas from the NBP, so that nobody gets funding to serve them.
/M

I can vouch for this in Castletroy, Limerick - not planned until end of 2018 yet they have a bunch of rural areas already live in the county. If thats not some attempt at grabbing NBP areas I don't know what it is. If Siro had any cop they would be in there hoovering up areas like this, swiping them out from Eirs grasp.

cnocbui

turbbo wrote: »

I can vouch for this in Castletroy, Limerick - not planned until end of 2018 yet they have a bunch of rural areas already live in the county. If thats not some attempt at grabbing NBP areas I don't know what it is. If Siro had any cop they would be in there hoovering up areas like this, swiping them out from Eirs grasp.

I thought the purpose of the rural FTTH program was to provide decent speeds to rural people who have never had them due to distance. I doubt the average speeds available to people in Castletroy is as low as for rural people 2km+ from the nearest exchange or fiber cabinet.

Pangea

Have to order ftth again today. The women on the phone the last day said I could order VOB with it if I wanted, should I?

rob808

addict wrote: »

Order by post code only then your sure of not losing service

I preorder there through eir chat said my DSl should be ok.

turbbo

cnocbui wrote: »

I thought the purpose of the rural FTTH program was to provide decent speeds to rural people who have never had them due to distance. I doubt the average speeds available to people in Castletroy is as low as for rural people 2km+ from the nearest exchange or fiber cabinet.

Lol - fastest broadband available to me on that exchange is 3mbs!! 58 houses on that same exchange in the same boat give or take a mb or 2. So no those in rural areas are also connected to urban exchanges just outside urban areas - these areas are strategically being ignored that was the point. I wasn’t talking about urban, just areas that are rural but high density. There seems to be an assumption by other providers that these areas are already covered by Eir but they’re not so Eir can leave them on the long finger and get back to them later.

savemejebus

turbbo wrote: »

Lol - fastest broadband available to me on that exchange is 3mbs!! 58 houses on that same exchange in the same boat give or take a mb or 2. So no those in rural areas are also connected to urban exchanges just outside urban areas - these areas are strategically being ignored that was the point. I wasn’t talking about urban, just areas that are rural but high density. Their seems to be an assumption by other providers that these areas are already covered by Eir but they’re not so Eir can leave them on the long finger and get back to them later.

Don't virgin do cable based broadband out in castletroy though?

turbbo

savemejebus wrote: »

Don't virgin do cable based broadband out in castletroy though?

not for the 58 they don’t.

rob808

I perorder but never got a conformation email about it how long does it take before you get it.

Gonzo

rob808 wrote: »

I perorder but never got a conformation email about it how long does it take before you get it.

I didn't get a confirmation untill my area went live. I pre-ordered first and no confirmation, then when i followed up a week later Eir cancelled the order and told me to wait till my road was live, then on the date given to me I got in contact with the Eir reps on boards and had a confirmation and an install 2 days later.

rob808

Gonzo wrote: »

I didn't get a confirmation untill my area went live. I pre-ordered first and no confirmation, then when i followed up a week later Eir cancelled the order and told me to wait till my road was live, then on the date given to me I got in contact with the Eir reps on boards and had a confirmation and an install 2 days later.

He said to me 4 October and digiweb said they were launching around the same time I have to wait and see thanks.

Gonzo

rob808 wrote: »

He said to me 4 October and digiweb said they were launching around the same time I have to wait and see thanks.

you probably won't get a confirmation till the 4th or 5th October.

_sheep

Hopefully a query that hasnt been answered already, I've tried to catch up on most of this thread but may have missed it.

I'm in a new build, no phone line (ever) going into the site but the telephone poles go right by my front garden so cant see a problem getting the fiber or a phone line in if required. On the map i can see I'm on one of the rural fiber runs with my house marked with a symbol, and its due to go live first half of 2018 (Borrisoleigh).

Question is do i need a phone line pre-servicing my house to order FTTH, or can i just order efiber when it goes live and they come and do the civil work then? I'm guessing i should bite the bullet and get a phone line installed, but at the same time dont want to waste money if its not necessary.

rob808

_sheep wrote: »

Hopefully a query that hasnt been answered already, I've tried to catch up on most of this thread but may have missed it.

I'm in a new build, no phone line (ever) going into the site but the telephone poles go right by my front garden so cant see a problem getting the fiber or a phone line in if required. On the map i can see I'm on one of the rural fiber runs with my house marked with a symbol, and its due to go live first half of 2018 (Borrisoleigh).

Question is do i need a phone line pre-servicing my house to order FTTH, or can i just order efiber when it goes live and they come and do the civil work then? I'm guessing i should bite the bullet and get a phone line installed, but at the same time dont want to waste money if its not necessary.

it be easier if you did because you be on there system with account and have a port at the exchange.

Johnboy1951

_sheep wrote: »

Hopefully a query that hasnt been answered already, I've tried to catch up on most of this thread but may have missed it.

I'm in a new build, no phone line (ever) going into the site but the telephone poles go right by my front garden so cant see a problem getting the fiber or a phone line in if required. On the map i can see I'm on one of the rural fiber runs with my house marked with a symbol, and its due to go live first half of 2018 (Borrisoleigh).

Question is do i need a phone line pre-servicing my house to order FTTH, or can i just order efiber when it goes live and they come and do the civil work then? I'm guessing i should bite the bullet and get a phone line installed, but at the same time dont want to waste money if its not necessary.

No phone line needed for FTTH which is carried completely on fibre.

FTTC requires a phone line as the last span of the connection is carried on copper.

Confirm using your eircode that you are on the 2018 roll out.

savemejebus

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No phone line needed for FTTH which is carried completely on fibre.

FTTC requires a phone line as the last span of the connection is carried on copper.

Confirm using your eircode that you are on the 2018 roll out.

What happens if a house isn't assigned an eircode yet?

Pangea

Just spent two hours on the phone with Eir. The past few days have been a nightmare trying to get the Internet problem sorted. They had a different story today. I was told it was a Tier 2 case. One of the agents hadn't seen the problem before.. Turns out there was a provisional failure on the account, a blockage on the line once the new ffth system rebooted after the old dsl account was ceased. She said the signal was going zig zag instead of straight, so now they hope to rectify it by Friday. My experience has been awful. Four days speaking to every department in Eir, four different case numbers. All Il say is that I hope no one else experiences this problem with ftth.

tsue921i8wljb3

savemejebus wrote: »

What happens if a house isn't assigned an eircode yet?

You are going to have a battle to convince them to include you. Poster ah,sure seems to be the person to contact seeing that they got their new build included.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104680220&postcount=7839

savemejebus

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

You are going to have a battle to convince them to include you. Poster ah,sure seems to be the person to contact seeing that they got their new build included.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104680220&postcount=7839

Cheers, will look into that. House isn't a new build but has no eircode, neighbouring houses have though and are marked as getting it before soon.

The Cush

savemejebus wrote: »

What happens if a house isn't assigned an eircode yet?

savemejebus wrote: »

House isn't a new build but has no eircode, neighbouring houses have though and are marked as getting it before soon.

How old is the house? There is a 2012 stalled build, just the walls and no roof, in my area, it has an eircode and on the 300k rollout plan.

Contact eircode, probably just an error in the database. The next quarterly eircode update is due in Nov. This from the eircode website

The next quarterly update will be displayed on our systems in ​​​​​November 2017.

If your property has been in existence for many years and you cannot find it on the Eircode Finder, please get in touch with our contact centre and they will be happy to help you. You can contact Eircode either by submitting a query or contact us on 0818 300 005.

https://www.eircode.ie/getting-an-eircode

savemejebus

The Cush wrote: »

How old is the house? There is a 2012 stalled build, just the walls and no roof, in my area, it has an eircode and on the 300k rollout plan.

Contact eircode, probably just an error in the database. The next quarterly eircode update is due in Nov. This from the eircode website

House is pretty old (early 1900's), lived in till early 2000's but renovated in 07 but renovations not completed till this year. Will contact the eircode crowd tomorrow and try get it added at least.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

How many homes have SIRO connected?

Actual installations seems to be commercially sensitive (SIRO), but SIRO has passed/enabled 85000 homes, that are ready for installation. That was actually in the last press release, that also announced the build-out for Athlone town. If the 12000 figure of Eir/OpenEir is correct, then SIRO has passed 4 times as much.
/M