Eir rural FTTH thread

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Two pppoe sessions with different username and password on the same line ? (possibly)

Or two pppoe sessions using the same username and password, on two different lines ? (unlikely, unless they don't care)

Whatever goes on ADSL with Eir, will most likely also be possible on the FTTH platform. The backend isn't really different.

/M

Itt has been a number of years since I set it up so not quite sure except for the following ....

the eir modem allows for 'Bridged+NAT' which allows the modem to operate as normally with its IP address
but also allows another device to get a different IP address through the bridge

One account and one line ..... two IP addresses.

Hopefully it will be possible to do something similar with FTTH (if/when it arrives here) as I find this extremely useful.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Itt has been a number of years since I set it up so not quite sure except for the following ....

the eir modem allows for 'Bridged+NAT' which allows the modem to operate as normally with its IP address
but also allows another device to get a different IP address through the bridge

One account and one line ..... two IP addresses.

Hopefully it will be possible to do something similar with FTTH (if/when it arrives here) as I find this extremely useful.

That only works as long as it's dynamic IP on the account and the provider doesn't restrict you to one session. Eir probably hasn't envisioned your scenario.

On FTTH, it should be even easier. Connect a switch, that's Vlan transparent to the ONT, stick 2 routers on it (each configured for Vlan 10) and set the PPPoE session up on each.

It doesn't really make any difference to the provider, as the speed is limited physically on the ONT, concentrator or OLT. The only thing you get out of it, is 2 public IPs. And their traffic accounting could get confused by it.

If the provider for example gave you a fixed IP, you'd be screwed, as you'd have 50% packet loss on each PPPoE session then.

/M

cnocbui

Falcon L wrote: »

Jazzus... that's tiny. And that's the drop from the pole to the house?

Should have no issues pulling it through a hole left by a TV coax that I want to do away with. I could pull the coax out with a draw string attached, leaving that in place to make the installation easier.

If it was me, I would use the coax to pull the fibre, not string. Cut the coax end flush, but the end of the fibre against it and use packing tape to wrap the joint with a good 6cm+ overlap on each side, going around several times. Cut a piece of tape and use it lengthwise to get the overlap.

It will be far stronger than string and won't snag like knots in string as the joint is very smooth and should pull through very smoothly as it' just like pulling a bit more coax.

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

Depends on the provider. I can can give you an example of a provider just stating, it's not suitable for sharing and won't be supported. But beyond that they don't care.



Well. Specifically copper cabling would also be a problem with building regulations etc., unless it's installed by a certified electrician. Either way, lots of other ways to connect multiple premises.

/M

Could the second house just bridge a router to first house's WiFi if they had a signal? Which if too weak could be fixed with a satellite dish.

banjopeter

Falcon L wrote: »

Quick question for anyone that got FTTH via a dropwire from a pole. How thick is the cable? Using a standard pencil as a guage... bigger? Smaller?

Or if someone can run a caliper over it?

Here it is, using the proverbial pencil for comparison. It is a flat cable, and much stronger than it appears.

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

Could the second house just bridge a router to first house's WiFi if they had a signal? Which if too weak could be fixed with a satellite dish.

Of course. Apart from that that connection always will be crap unless the routers are placed in windows facing each other and depending on distance.

A satelite dish, not really. But an outdoor wifi/fixed-wireless link would be possible.

You have to consider, that if you want to share a 1000 Mbit/s FTTH, i expect that your neighbor would want to see at least 500 Mbit/s his end and you can't do that with an half-arsed cheapskate attempt.

/M

MajesticDonkey

Marlow wrote: »

Of course. Apart from that that connection always will be crap unless the routers are placed in windows facing each other and depending on distance.

A satelite dish, not really. But an outdoor wifi/fixed-wireless link would be possible.

You have to consider, that if you want to share a 1000 Mbit/s FTTH, i expect that your neighbor would want to see at least 500 Mbit/s his end and you can't do that with an half-arsed cheapskate attempt.

/M

You'd be surprised what speeds you can get with equipment worth €300. I've used a couple of Mikrotik dishes and I believe we get around 500Mb/s throughput on a 10km link.

Marlow

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

You'd be surprised what speeds you can get with equipment worth €300. I've used a couple of Mikrotik dishes and I believe we get around 500Mb/s throughput on a 10km link.

I have to do with fixed wireless all day long, so I do know. And no .. you'll get about max of 200 Mbit/s half duplex tcp throughput on 10km with a proper set of Mikrotik panels and using an 80 MHz wide channel.

If you want 500 Mbit/s throughput on unlicensed frequencies over that distance, you'll be in the 3000 EUR price range.

/M

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

Of course. Apart from that that connection always will be crap unless the routers are placed in windows facing each other and depending on distance.

A satelite dish, not really. But an outdoor wifi/fixed-wireless link would be possible.

You have to consider, that if you want to share a 1000 Mbit/s FTTH, i expect that your neighbor would want to see at least 500 Mbit/s his end and you can't do that with an half-arsed cheapskate attempt.

/M

A satellite dish can be used with a wifi antennae replacing the LNB to enable a wifi connecten over several Km.

http://www.skifactz.com/wifi/?p=159

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

A satellite dish can be used with a wifi antennae replacing the LNB to enable a wifi connecten over several Km.

http://www.skifactz.com/wifi/?p=159

Of course it can, but it's not going to be optimal as the antenna is designed for different frequencies and very hard to tweak .. the satelite dish has to be extremely spot on tuned. And you want to archieve 100 Mbit/s plus with something that wasn't designed for the purpose in the first place ?

To be honest: dedicated fixed wireless gear, that has antennae designed for the frequency, can be got for the same price as what the satelite dish and wireless devices used on the dish cost .. or less.

Why would you bother with cobbling something together half arsed ?

/M

enfant terrible

Have Eir dropped their prices since I last looked?

Now €45pm for six months followed by €50pm for six months 12 month contract for 150mb, free installation.

Then goes to €81pm but you can cancel at that point I assume.

https://www.eir.ie/broadband/1000mb-fibre/

Marlow

enfant terrible wrote: »

Have Eir dropped their prices since I last looked?

Now €45pm for six months followed by €50pm for six months 12 month contract for 150mb, free installation.

Then goes to €81pm but you can cancel at that point I assume.

https://www.eir.ie/broadband/1000mb-fibre/

That's only if you book online and they keep the right to screw you sideways, if you forget to cancel before the 12 months are up. Probably even has a term, that automatically binds you into a new 12 months contract if you miss the cancellation date.

Fun part is, that VDSL/FTTC on the other hand (up to 100 Mbit/s) is 53 EUR/month disregardless.

/M

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

Of course it can, but it's not going to be optimal as the antenna is designed for different frequencies and very hard to tweak .. the satelite dish has to be extremely spot on tuned. And you want to archieve 100 Mbit/s plus with something that wasn't designed for the purpose in the first place ?

To be honest: dedicated fixed wireless gear, that has antennae designed for the frequency, can be got for the same price as what the satelite dish and wireless devices used on the dish cost .. or less.

Why would you bother with cobbling something together half arsed ?

/M

I was just mentioning the possibility because I had the idea a few years ago when I was contemplating how to get wifi in a particularly remote location. I then found it had been done and proven, so to speak.

Could you perhaps provide a link for this dedicated fixed wireless gear, out of interest?

I would agree, why cobble if there is a cheaper and superior alternative, I just wasn't aware that there was such.

A better solution, if a cable can be employed between houses, might be something like this ethernet extending transceiver that uses fibre.

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

Could you perhaps provide a link for this dedicated fixed wireless gear, out of interest?

All you need can be found at: https://www.irishwireless.net/ or similar places. Look at Mikrotik or Ubiquity gear.

/M

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

All you need can be found at: https://www.irishwireless.net/ or similar places. Look at Mikrotik or Ubiquity gear.

/M

Thanks. I'm not seeing anything priced less than several hundred €. Am I missing something?

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

Thanks. I'm not seeing anything priced less than several hundred €. Am I missing something?

2 of these: https://www.irishwireless.net/rb911g-5hpacd-qrt?search=qrt&description=true

That comes in at just under 300 EUR ex. VAT. And that'll do the trick.

/M

MajesticDonkey

Marlow wrote: »

I have to do with fixed wireless all day long, so I do know. And no .. you'll get about max of 200 Mbit/s half duplex tcp throughput on 10km with a proper set of Mikrotik panels and using an 80 MHz wide channel.

If you want 500 Mbit/s throughput on unlicensed frequencies over that distance, you'll be in the 3000 EUR price range.

/M

You're spot on, I was just going from memory (I don't do it for a living, but live in the sticks so had to improvise to get decent internet). Our Mikrotik unit varies between showing 10 and 11 km wireless distance, with P-Throughput of generally 200-250Mbps.

Could you perhaps provide a link for this dedicated fixed wireless gear, out of interest?

On the issue of where to buy, we used IP-SA: https://www.ip-sa.com.pl/
Polish company, but cheap and delivery is pretty quick. We use two Mikrotik Dyna Dishes: https://www.ip-sa.com.pl/dynadish-rbdynadishg-5hacd-plug-version-p-2457.html

In terms of Mikrotik vs. Ubiquiti, the one thing to note is that Mikrotik do not make nice, easy to use UIs - they make extremely configurable devices with every option under the sun available to set. Ubiquiti is definitely the one to go for if you're not terribly technical.

Marlow

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

We use two Mikrotik Dyna Dishes

The QRTs that I linked above perform better than the Dyna dishes. Just a better antenna design. Size and gain are similar though.

And as for UI: Mikrotik does everything .. they're basically a low budget version of high end Cisco gear, at least when it comes to the feature set. Cisco wireless can't get near them.

Ubiquity is easier to set up, if you don't know anything, but the quality is not same, nor are they as reliable.

/M

bfa1509

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

You're spot on, I was just going from memory (I don't do it for a living, but live in the sticks so had to improvise to get decent internet). Our Mikrotik unit varies between showing 10 and 11 km wireless distance, with P-Throughput of generally 200-250Mbps.


On the issue of where to buy, we used IP-SA: https://www.ip-sa.com.pl/
Polish company, but cheap and delivery is pretty quick. We use two Mikrotik Dyna Dishes: https://www.ip-sa.com.pl/dynadish-rbdynadishg-5hacd-plug-version-p-2457.html

In terms of Mikrotik vs. Ubiquiti, the one thing to note is that Mikrotik do not make nice, easy to use UIs - they make extremely configurable devices with every option under the sun available to set. Ubiquiti is definitely the one to go for if you're not terribly technical.

Very nice info lads. I live next door to my sister, around 40m across a field so too far for an ethernet cable but close enough for a nice wireless system. We wouldn't be too heavy internet usage so a 1000Mbit connection between us would be perfect. We would probably save between €200-300 a year so it would be well worth investing in some nice equipment.

Marlow

bfa1509 wrote: »

Very nice info lads. I live next door to my sister, around 40m across a field so too far for an ethernet cable but close enough for a nice wireless system. We wouldn't be too heavy internet usage so a 1000Mbit connection between us would be perfect. We would probably save between €200-300 a year so it would be well worth investing in some nice equipment.

Jup. A dish on the chimney/gable end either side, properly set up, and you probably won't have to touch it for years. Unless Ophelia comes back and blows it down.

/M

A pair of these would give you about 100Mbs if you're on a budget.
https://www.senetic.ie/product/LBE-M5-23?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuZXQBRDKARIsAMwpUeSbY-WI6lh5wxm4MO1q0LIPRYSei53F_z5QnQKlYHburmD9u9QhFDIaAh9gEALw_wcB

Paperjam

Hi,Eir have been in process of rolling out FTTH in my area in Donegal since mid August. At first when I checked the fibre rollout map I was the only house on my road that was not going to be serviced by the rollout even though the fibre line on poll is on same poll as my existing Eir landline comes from. I contacted openeir and had just given up on hearing a reply from them when this week I got a email from a guy called John, emailed to say “Just to update you, your address will be included in the fibre roll out plan.” Only thing the fibre rollout map still says I won’t be included and when I tried to order it I keep getting told it’s not available even though I know of two neighbors to my right have already had it installed. I was wondering can I take this email as conformation I will be included in rollout or are Openeir/Eir just trying get me off there case. I was just about to install a outdoor wireless solution to a location about 2km away to get a fibre connection.

The Cush

I have a pair of Nanostation2 Loco units setup between 2 houses for more than 7 years, survived all the storms, including Ophelia, since then with the Nanostation AP very exposed to the elements on a TV aerial mast, very durable units.

KeRbDoG

Is sharing of Eir's services to another house is against their TOS? I can't find it documented from a quick search

Marlow

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Is sharing of Eir's services to another house is against their TOS? I can't find it documented from a quick search

It's hardly something they can enforce or trace, even if it was in the TOS. Because, how to distinguish between people in the same house sharing it or neighbors ?

As I stated previously: the problem is not sharing it. The problem is, if you trust the people, you're sharing it with. Because the account holder is responsible for the content that gets accessed using the connection.

/M

9726_9726

One thing to be aware of if you are going to share an Eir connection is the 1TB usage limit. If your neighbour blasts away and you blast away, who will pay for the €100 monthly potential overcharge? What if you are of the opinion that you couldn't possibly have used it?

Overcharge: Property of Ned Flanders.

oscarBravo

So I got a call from KN yesterday and the engineer showed up this morning, a week or so ahead of schedule. I pointed out where the three poles will need to be installed to get a line to me, he duly made a note of them and submitted the build request.

It's an awkward build. Where the poles need to go there is a ditch with a drain either side of it - one in the field, a smaller one beside the road - and there's a 10kV overhead line in the field.

I'm not confident of getting installed this year.

ED E

Poles on your land are one thing, ones its on the public roadway you've got a chunk of paperwork which will push you down the WO list.

(Ya know yourself anyways)

Marlow

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not confident of getting installed this year.

And then there's problem, that once it goes into December, there's about a month of practically nothing happening. Most networks and CoCo freeze all build activity.

/M

oscarBravo

Part of me is tempted to try to sneak a duct along one of the drains to save all the faffing with poles, but that would require me to manage the road crossing myself. And then another part of me wonders why I should save open eir the time and money.

That said, I've seen situations where poles and/or ducts are required dragging on for months, and I don't know that I want to wait that long.

sean72

Guys whats the standard Eir modem/router model now and is it easy to switch off the wifi and manage that with better a router setup

sean72

cnocbui wrote: »

I was just mentioning the possibility because I had the idea a few years ago when I was contemplating how to get wifi in a particularly remote location. I then found it had been done and proven, so to speak.

Could you perhaps provide a link for this dedicated fixed wireless gear, out of interest?

I would agree, why cobble if there is a cheaper and superior alternative, I just wasn't aware that there was such.

A better solution, if a cable can be employed between houses, might be something like this ethernet extending transceiver that uses fibre.

I know someone who set this up and said its been working flawlessly for over 2 years.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-CPE510-Outdoor-Centralized-Management/dp/B00N3SW7X4

Marlow

sean72 wrote: »

Guys whats the standard Eir modem/router model now and is it easy to switch off the wifi and manage that with better a router setup

It's the F2000, which is manufactured by Huawei ... and it's ***** .... Generally, I'd just bin it and replace it with something better.

/M

sean72

Marlow wrote: »

It's the F2000, which is manufactured by Huawei ... and it's ***** .... Generally, I'd just bin it and replace it with something better.

/M

Well I was hoping to just shut down the wifi and use my AirPort Extreme as the wifi router. I take the settings are easy to access and disable the wifi?

Marlow

sean72 wrote: »

Well I was hoping to just shut down the wifi and use my AirPort Extreme as the wifi router. I take the settings are easy to access and disable the wifi?

The settings are available yes. The F2000 just doesn't always do, what you tell it in the configuration (like reverts to default, reverts to the last settings or plainly ignores your settings).

/M

Gonzo

the F2000 is great for wired internet with low pings, but yeah the wifi on it is complete dirt.

sean72

Marlow wrote: »

The settings are available yes. The F2000 just doesn't always do, what you tell it in the configuration (like reverts to default, reverts to the last settings or plainly ignores your settings).

/M

Gonzo wrote: »

the F2000 is great for wired internet with low pings, but yeah the wifi on it is complete dirt.

Sounds like I'll be having fun. I can't stand the thought of poor coverage. I have to laugh at the amount of people who have super internet speed but have to sit in a particular part of some distant room to get on the wifi.

Gwynston

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

Marlow

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

It depends on what features you want.

For FTTH, your choices are the 4040, 7560 and 7582.

4040 has no VoIP and DECT base. So pure wifi+router. Should retail around 90 EUR.

7560 has VoIP, DSL modem (and Gbit/s WAN option), DECT base, analogue port etc. Retails about 120 EUR.

7582 .. is the top model ... and don't even ask about pricing .. 200 EUR range.

/M

shigllgetcha

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Marlow

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Wireless is not the only issue with the F2000.

/M

KeRbDoG

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Couldn't you just use any router (with wifi or not) which has an ethernet (gigabit ideally) WAN port with a FTTH service or am I missing something the F2000 does that special?

Marlow

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Couldn't you just use any router (with wifi or not) which has an ethernet (gigabit ideally) WAN port with a FTTH service or am I missing something the F2000 does that special?

- Needs to bit Gbit/s ...because all FTTH is more than 100 Mbit/s.
- Needs to support 802.1q on the WAN port (VLAN), because the PPPoE session on both OpenEIR FTTC, FTTH and SIRO FTTH gets established on Vlan 10 (opposed to untagged traffic).

Otherwise, yes, you can replace it with anything above, that can deal with those 2 requirements.

/M

banjopeter

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

The box Digiweb supply is the Fritz!Box 7560
I've had no issues with it, as opposed to the F2000 , which my neighbours have found very unsatisfactory, necessitating the use of wifi extenders.

KeRbDoG

Marlow wrote: »

- Needs to bit Gbit/s ...because all FTTH is more than 100 Mbit/s.
- Needs to support 802.1q on the WAN port (VLAN), because the PPPoE session on both OpenEIR FTTC, FTTH and SIRO FTTH gets established on Vlan 10 (opposed to untagged traffic).

Otherwise, yes, you can replace it with anything above, that can deal with those 2 requirements.

/M

Many devices out there that can replace the F2000 completely so

sean72

Well the news just gets worse in my FTTH/C story. A neighbour who is closer to the cabinet than me (200m versus my 450m) tells me shes getting 27mb/s. I thought that 30mb/s was the minimum to even be part of this rollout.

So the trundle downhill from my 1000mb excitement, to 100mb, to up to 50mb, has now reached a new 'low' literally.

My install is next week

The Cush

sean72 wrote: »

Well the news just gets worse in my FTTH/C story. A neighbour who is closer to the cabinet than me (200m versus my 450m) tells me shes getting 27mb/s. I thought that 30mb/s was the minimum to even be part of this rollout.

200m from the cabinet would be closer to 100 Mbps, close to the cabinet but connected to the exchange most likely.

FTTC/VDSL (up to 100 Mbps) speed vs. copper line distance

sean72

The Cush wrote: »

200m from the cabinet would be closer to 100 Mbps, close to the cabinet but connected to the exchange most likely.

FTTC/VDSL (up to 100 Mbps) speed vs. copper line distance

Yeah I have seen this before but then once the cabinet went active and you enter phone numbers from my local area into the eir line checker, it says speeds up 50m. So that was the first alarm bell... but for whatever reason poor copper, connections etc the speed just gets lower and lower.

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

Bored Accountant

sean72 wrote: »

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

'High Speed Broadband' is being considered 30mb.
The national Broadband plan etc is that everyone would have greater than 30mb broadband.

If you are supplied with a speed less than 30mb, but according to the NBP are to be delivered in the 300k, I would be contacting NBP so say eir aren't meeting their commitment.

sean72

sean72 wrote: »

Yeah I have seen this before but then once the cabinet went active and you enter phone numbers from my local area into the eir line checker, it says speeds up 50m. So that was the first alarm bell... but for whatever reason poor copper, connections etc the speed just gets lower and lower.

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

I didn’t ask my neighbour if they gotten the Eir TV box as part of her package. I think she did mention she was interested in this before though. If she has Eir TV don’t they dedicate some bandwidth to these boxes?