Budget 2016

JustTheOne

Chef_Gusteau wrote: »

Do you think the economic crisis wouldn't have happened if Fine Gael were in power?

I just can't get this thinking.

Someone does wrong. Ah but that other person, they would have done it too. So I'll go with the person who done the wrong to begin with, even though the other person didn't actually do wrong. Yeah their the Safer bet.

Wtf like?

We really do deserve what we get when it comes to government in this country if that's the thinking out there.

It defies logic. My brain just can comprehend it.

road_high

Chef_Gusteau wrote: »

Do you think the economic crisis wouldn't have happened if Fine Gael were in power?

We'll never know. I deal in the here and now. And the fact if the matter is FF were so they're taking the lions share of the blame and rightly so. Else why would we even have governments.

Billy86

road_high wrote: »

We'll never know. I deal in the here and now. And the fact if the matter is FF were so they're taking the lions share of the blame and rightly so. Else why would we even have governments.

Ah but sure FF would have made the exact same recovery that FG did. Just look at their approach during the 2000s, and then the Cowen administration for... eerrrr... look they just would have La La La La La La La I can't hear you La La La La La La La.

listermint

Riddled with FG supporters with their fingers in there ears.

Country will never change especially with loo laas who accept the type of incompetence that had been factually detailed in this thread.

It's clear there are dyed in wool FG supporters here it doesn't matter what evidence is presented or what alternative you are presented with it won't change.

Grand little country to live in when all you have to do is hang around for 40 years to lead the country ability means nothing.

Applause all round

tayto lover

[QUOTE=Kermit.de.frog;97407412]People give out about Kenny saying the country "went mad".

The country did go mad. If you were on the dole in 2008 for 10 years you saw your income treble. I don't know how many taxi drivers I spoke to in that period that were in actual fact property investors with homes abroad in places like Bulgaria and Spain. Ordinary people getting in on the game. All the housing extensions and loans and living beyond means. All the partying and lavish living by people who should never have had access to that lifestyle as it was not earned. Yet an unemployed single mother with 2 kids could afford it at the time.

Extraordinary and people need to wake up to the fact and be honest and accept that collectively and individually whether you realise it or not everybody was living beyond what they could afford long term.

To suggest the country did not go mad is a lie. I blame the people as much as the government for the crises. The former cheered on and supported the latter.[/QUOTE]

He was a hypocrite. He went on the t.v. a week or so earlier telling us it was not our fault.
One of his statements had to be a lie.
Many did borrow above their station but many of us did not. We are all paying though.

Avatar MIA

tayto lover wrote: »

He was a hypocrite. He went on the t.v. a week or so earlier telling us it was not our fault.
One of his statements had to be a lie.
Many did borrow above their station but many of us did not. We are all paying though.

Despite Kenny, FG/Lab are the best option.

Would love to hear the arguments for a better alternative.

Bubbaclaus

The government give back something to the people in the budget and get criticised by people who were seemingly anti austerity in previous years.

You'd have to wonder what these people actually want.

listermint

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Despite Kenny, FG/Lab are the best option.

Would love to hear the arguments for a better alternative.

This has been addressed several times over this thread and no It doesn't involve sf or the aaa.

Please read up on who is canvassing in your location. There is alternates here that are not option a or b who frankly are the same FG FF

listermint

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The government give back something to the people in the budget and get criticised by people who were seemingly anti austerity in previous years.

You'd have to wonder what these people actually want.

Yep that's right that's why the government are being criticised.

Hole in one there.

I presume you read all the posts here with bullet points before you posted that.

Avatar MIA

listermint wrote: »

This has been addressed several times over this thread and no It doesn't involve sf or the aaa.

Please read up on who is canvassing in your location. There is alternates here that are not option a or b who frankly are the same FG FF

There is no alternative to either FG/Lab or FF.

SF is fantasy stuff - they will remain toxic for the majority. Renua are far too small.

listermint

Avatar MIA wrote: »

There is no alternative to either FG/Lab or FF.

SF is fantasy stuff - they will remain toxic for the majority. Renua are far too small.

You've your mind made up so.there is no answering you .

Some people don't want improvement.

Same old same old .

BTW there are alternatives . did you even bother reading my post what so ever why are you mentioning sf as if I offered them up ?

Your words..

Jaketherake

Blaming this govt or that govt doesnt really help anyone.

No matter who is in power there will be ups and downs, successes and failures.
None of them are experts at running a country.
The common man just needs to make sure he is aware of that and make sure he plays it carefully and puts himself in a position to benefit from whatever way it goes.

Avatar MIA

listermint wrote: »

You've your mind made up so.there is no answering you .

Some people don't want improvement.

Same old same old .

BTW there are alternatives . did you even bother reading my post what so ever why are you mentioning sf as if I offered them up ?

Your words..

There was a wall of text, I skipped over it. I've no interest in reading anyone's manifesto.

If you can keep it to a few dozen words I will read it.

tayto lover

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Despite Kenny, FG/Lab are the best option.

Would love to hear the arguments for a better alternative.

I think Kenny is actually holding FG back. He is not popular even in the party it seems.
There is very little alternative to what we have now and even if I don't like them myself they are better than FF.

road_high

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Despite Kenny, FG/Lab are the best option.

Would love to hear the arguments for a better alternative.

Pierce Doherty in Finance for example ? Could you imagine that. Genuinely scary stuff

Mr. teddywinkles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK let's try and work this though...

If we accept that there really ARE only two viable choices come election day - namely FF and FG - then let's compare them.

- FF destroyed the economy... absolutely! But let's not forget they were cheered on by an electorate that wanted even more "free money" and FG who in fact wanted FF to spend more

- FF are notorious for their cronyism, backhanders and Galway Tent... definitely! But FG have shown us that they're just as bad this term and "Uncle Denis" and his FG connections are long known

- Brian Cowen was a woeful Taoiseach... no argument there! But let's remember that he was thrown in after Bertie (the real culprit) skipped out.
Are people really contending that Enda Kenny - the man who was elected on a promise of a new approach to the crisis, but who went off to Europe and told them we all went mad in the Good Times instead and then implemented thre same polices that were agreed with FF anyway, who promised reform and transparency but instead continued the same corruption as his predecessors, and reduced the Dail (and even his own Government!) to rubber stamps with his use of the whip system and Economic Management Council, and who refuses to debate and goes into hiding when the latest scandal heats up, is so much better??

- FG/LAB created Irish Water.. a bloated unnecessary billing agency headed by a man who left €80 million in debt behind him, and which has absolutely failed to win the confidence and support of its "customers" - not least because of the threats, the intimidation, the billing errors, the data protection issues, and even the €100 bribe has failed. Now we're told it can't be wound down because it'd cost too much.. it's another HSE!

- The Shatter/Callinan debacle, and what it exposed about how AGS resources are abused by those in power is something we should all be worried about, not least because of how this Government tried to bury it and deflect it. Not to mention Kenny's role in Callinan's resignation which he's never satisfactorily answered for.

- FF are a populist party that will do whatever it takes to be reelected... true! But we the electorate have to take our share of responsibility for that. Besides, what have FG/LAB just done with the Budget if not try to buy their way back into power despite the concerns raised by watchdogs. Worse again, FG/LAB promised this sort of thing was over!

- The Recovery. FG/LAB are always ready to claim credit for every job created, but what is driving those jobs? Is it this Government, or is it the policies of FDI that are around a lot longer than Enda's lot, the investment by private industry as a result, and favorable external conditions (a weak Euro etc), and the reality that our economic system is cyclical.. a recovery was ALWAYS going to happen eventually regardless of who was in office.

What Enda's Government can claim credit for is a housing crisis that is causing these companies problems when it comes to attracting talent, to say nothing of course of the impact it's had on both the rental and buying market.
Travel outside Dublin and the other major cities and you'll be hard-pressed to find real signs of Recovery. Ask those who have been made homeless how much better off they feel under this Government

In short, FF are absolutely guilty of all they are accused of but let's not pretend that FG are any better or have achieved anything beyond sitting back and adopting a "wait and see" approach to the economy while simultaneously widening the gap between those who have it, and those who don't, helped in no small part by massive expenditure on PR and spin and a campaign of turning various parts of the electorate against each other (rich vs poor, employed vs unemployed, private vs public sector).. all to distract from just how little THEY have really done.

And no, I'm not a FF member, supporter or loyalist.. I'm interested in who gets the job done and I am the first to say that our choices are piss-poor in this country.
I have no faith in SF/AAA as a solution, nor do I buy the promises of FG/FF-lite parties like Renua and so, given that FG/LAB have absolutely failed to deliver on anything they promised (exception: the SSM referendum which is a positive but really was just them ALLOWING us to have our constitutional right to decide) and in fact made the situation worse for many people, then yes.. reluctantly.. I am forced to conclude that there is no other viable option but to vote FF again, because as bad as they are, FG are worse!

I agree with most of your post except the part of voting FF back in. Recovery of some kind was inevitable but I think its due to external policies forced upon this government at expense of the people but hey wotever you political affiliations. Hope it makes ye all happy:)

listermint

Avatar MIA wrote: »

There was a wall of text, I skipped over it. I've no interest in reading anyone's manifesto.

If you can keep it to a few dozen words I will read it.

No I'm not going to bother because you've no interest in voting for change despite being duped into it by FG .

It appears you prefer buzzwords like change.

We got alot of that under FG .

No point in trying to tell people to look at the alternates In their locality if theyve no interest.you sir have no interest at least admit it rather than stringing out pointless conversation.

Your voting FG because somehow sf are the only alternative you've no interest in looking at manifestos the budget bought you over. End

listermint

road_high wrote: »

Pierce Doherty in Finance for example ? Could you imagine that. Genuinely scary stuff

Enda kenny in power of the country. Thats not scary stuff.

You wouldn't even put him in charge of your local school.

It's amusing what some people will overlook.

Avatar MIA

listermint wrote: »

Your voting FG because somehow sf are the only alternative you've no interest in looking at manifestos the budget bought you over.

Labour actually.

Now, the best laugh I got today was from reading your above post. Is your mind not equally made up.

JustTheOne

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Labour actually.

Now, the best laugh I got today was from reading your above post. Is your mind not equally made up.

He lectures people here but has admitted he doesn't have an alternative. Or look up your local independents they will do a better job.

You know the Mick Wallace types.

Avatar MIA

JustTheOne wrote: »

You know the Mick Wallace types.

Although Mick Wallace is a saint compared to Michael Lowry. If ever an electorate deserved to be disenfranchised it's those Tip voters.

road_high

listermint wrote: »

Enda kenny in power of the country. Thats not scary stuff.

You wouldn't even put him in charge of your local school.

It's amusing what some people will overlook.

Nah. Kenny's just completely vanilla, inoffensive etc. Nothing compared to having a communist clueless Syriza inspired Shinner in charge of the purse strings, which is a far far more serious matter (which is the point I was raising before you throw in the ole Enda red herring). Be same as leaving a hard-core alcoholic in charge of a pub really.
I don't find shinnernomics one bit amusing and I'll certainly not overlook this fundamental aspect of any party putting itself forward to run the country. That's before you even get to the terrorist and racketeering links which I'll never overlook either.

road_high

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Although Mick Wallace is a saint compared to Michael Lowry. If ever an electorate deserved to be disenfranchised it's those Tip voters.

Don't forget Mattie :eek:

listermint

You lads are gas. Labour pffft there gone.

And why would I have mad my mind up sure there is no election yet.

Anyone who has their mind made up already has no interest in looking at alternatives probably voted same party for life.

Sad really.something we need to get away from but sure whatever your having yourself.

Oh and If you think someone telling you to examine all options before you vote is a lecture well then there isn't much helping ya. Say hello to all the family in Australia and Canada.

Billy86

I can't believe that coward Enda Kenny just got us knocked out of the Rugby World Cup like that. He's such a bastard! :mad:

sorta_happy

road_high wrote: »

Pierce Doherty in Finance for example ? Could you imagine that. Genuinely scary stuff

id be scared of making doherty minister for building sandcastles

the biggest windbag in dail eireann by a country mile

sorta_happy

road_high wrote: »

Nah. Kenny's just completely vanilla, inoffensive etc. Nothing compared to having a communist clueless Syriza inspired Shinner in charge of the purse strings, which is a far far more serious matter (which is the point I was raising before you throw in the ole Enda red herring). Be same as leaving a hard-core alcoholic in charge of a pub really.
I don't find shinnernomics one bit amusing and I'll certainly not overlook this fundamental aspect of any party putting itself forward to run the country. That's before you even get to the terrorist and racketeering links which I'll never overlook either.

im ok with politicans who believe in nothing ( like enda kenny or david cameron ) , its idealogues like SF , paul murphy or tony blair , who scare me

politicans who want major change ( usually change that the majority of voters dont want ) are dangerous

sorta_happy

tayto lover wrote: »

I think Kenny is actually holding FG back. He is not popular even in the party it seems.
There is very little alternative to what we have now and even if I don't like them myself they are better than FF.

kenny is not holding the party back to a significant enough degree for it to make a major difference , FG are holding up pretty well in the polls , the only alternative is leo varadkar who while popular in dublin and the media , is less well liked in rural ireland

if kenny leaving was the only way renua would agree to support a coalition with FG however , id like to see him go , i really dont want labour in the next goverment , they are obsessed with re-engineering society along the ideals of the irish times editors page

Avatar MIA

listermint wrote: »

You lads are gas. Labour pffft there gone.

And why would I have mad my mind up sure there is no election yet.

Anyone who has their mind made up already has no interest in looking at alternatives probably voted same party for life.

Sad really.something we need to get away from but sure whatever your having yourself.

Oh and If you think someone telling you to examine all options before you vote is a lecture well then there isn't much helping ya. Say hello to all the family in Australia and Canada.

Get off your high horse, you're fooling no one. Next you'll be saying you've not got your mind made up re voting FG, and you might vote for them.

road_high

sorta_happy wrote: »

kenny is not holding the party back to a significant enough degree for it to make a major difference , FG are holding up pretty well in the polls , the only alternative is leo varadkar who while popular in dublin and the media , is less well liked in rural ireland

if kenny leaving was the only way renua would agree to support a coalition with FG however , id like to see him go , i really dont want labour in the next goverment , they are obsessed with re-engineering society along the ideals of the irish times editors page

I'm the opposite. Id prefer FG alone too mainly for the welfare reform but I like what Labour bring in terms of liberal issues like SSM etc. Unsure which I'll vote no 1 yet but definitely FG or Labour 1,2.
Renua won't have too many seats, don't seem to be gaining much traction.

road_high

sorta_happy wrote: »

id be scared of making doherty minister for building sandcastles

the biggest windbag in dail eireann by a country mile

No doubt when the SF sandcastles inevitably collapse it'd be RTE, Denis O'Brien's and the third world order's fault. These people are on another planet really.

handlemaster

road_high wrote: »

No doubt when the SF sandcastles inevitably collapse it'd be RTE, Denis O'Brien's and the third world order's fault. These people are on another planet really.

just waiting for their plan to clean up the crime ridden border regions ... and thats on both sides of the border see as they are in power in the north ..

kellyshell

Hi

Can someone help pls?? The new PRSI rate........do all salary brackets get a reduction or just up to a certain amount.

I read somewhere last wk that someone earning 35k a yr would be better of by €57 a month but when you check it out on a budget calculator it says €31 better off a month.

Can anyone tell me how it works? I am not very good at calculating tax just know I pay enough

road_high

handlemaster wrote: »

just waiting for their plan to clean up the crime ridden border regions ... and thats on both sides of the border see as they are in power in the north ..

Two areas I never hear SF go on about - crime or jobs. It's usually the same interminable droning on about austerity, taxing the "rich" and a 32 county Ireland.
They consider anyone on over 70k rich from what I can gather.