Winter Miles, Summer Smiles

Kurt_Godel

Wed 2,000m swim

200sw,2x100p,4x50k
10x50p as 25 fist, 25p + 10sec
5x100p mod + 15sec
4x50 as 25fast, 25 easy
200 choice easy

This session verified adding reach into my stroke. The 5X100p mod came in on a very comfortable 1:35 each time, and the effort was no more than moderate. The reach is helping a lot with catch.

The fast 25's were all in 17-19s.

PM 6.42k easy run at 4:46 pace (with 5*20 stride, 40s easy)

Ran along the river, it was a massive bugfest tonight, thousands of the little feckers got into my eyes, ears, nose, and gob. I will surely turn into Jeff Goldblum tonight.

Kurt_Godel

griffin100 wrote: »

You've probably seen this video as I have posted it before but it's interesting:

http://marathonswimmers.org/blog/2013/06/dave-scott-open-water-technique/

Just watched it all the way through, its very informative, thanks for posting it.

Dave Scott talks of optimally swimming 25m in a range of 15-24 strokes, (suggesting 15 is too few for most, and suggesting 24 is exceptionally fast). I guess this is the DPS emphasis that Helle talks about in the link Mark gave- but crucially she didn't give any indication of what range stroke turnover in her opinion piece.

I swim 19/20 strokes per 25m, and extending my reach is bringing this down to 18/19. And I'm relatively long in reach. So what I take is my stroke rate is right where it should be (as a triathlete).

DS- "I think the game is to go faster, isn't it"

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 12k easy run 4:52av pace

Between work and life I didn't manage to get the scheduled easy spin today... so while the kids were swimming I fit (fat? fitted?) in an easy run along the coast, brilliant evening to be out in the country between the waves and the setting sun.

I skipped tonights Masters crossfit session. I might argue, I might protest, but I sometimes do listen

Sat on the bank after to watch the kids. Its been a while since I did this, and my jaw dropped when I saw what Junior was doing. 10*50 off 60s, each one in between 38-41s...:eek: I'd be happy to make that set, and he had an hour of swim work done already. His stroke and position have improved immensely, and he's seeing the benefits now. Coach told me he did a 400TT under 7 mins a week ago... this will be a good year for him. The only problem is the club is too successful- they are operating at capacity, and there is no room for anyone to move up a lane. That's something we'll have to rectify soon.

griffin100

When it comes to distance per stroke and optimal efficiency I'm minded of Sean Kelly when Harmon was asking him on Eurosport one time about gearing in the TDF. Harmon is blathering on about the various gearing options as the riders struggle up a long climb. He asks Kelly what gearing he would suggest for the climb. After a long long pause Kelly says 'the one that gets you to the top quickest' I suppose you could take the same approach to DPS and stroke rate

Kurt_Godel

griffin100 wrote: »

When it comes to distance per stroke and optimal efficiency I'm minded of Sean Kelly when Harmon was asking him on Eurosport one time about gearing in the TDF. Harmon is blathering on about the various gearing options as the riders struggle up a long climb. He asks Kelly what gearing he would suggest for the climb. After a long long pause Kelly says 'the one that gets you to the top quickest' I suppose you could take the same approach to DPS and stroke rate

Ain't that the truth! Sometimes if its working, its working, and thats all you need to know.

interested

worth a watch


Apart from the audible slap/slap/slap and bubbles from slightly opened fingers on entry - the flow, rhythm and (not to be underestimated) the aerobic capacity and swim fitness to swim 1.10/100 all day is impressive - great pics of catch and the importance of a high elbow for leverage under the water is excellently presented.

Eliminate deadspots, not unreasonable to increase the stroke rate ... yada yada yada


Swim, find your own rhythm, do the basics ... don't over-think it


edit: and another ... swimming with bands ... I was playing with myself this morning .... finger paddles or no paddles ... bunches of 50's

Kurt_Godel

Horrible looking stroke by Jodie Swallow! But 1:10/100 for lots of 100's... not to be sniffed at.

During Pulse race I was passed on my left by a guy with a similar punchy stroke... must be a short arse thing But if it works it works.

The hand entry on the band video- whats the point in doing it this way (an exaggerated reach from what I can see)? That is, what do you learn from it? Your answer will determine how I swim next week

(as ever, thanks for droppin' by)

interested

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

The hand entry on the band video- whats the point in doing it this way (an exaggerated reach from what I can see)? That is, what do you learn from it? Your answer will determine how I swim next week
(as ever, thanks for droppin' by)

The first 42 seconds of the video illustrate how to do band work correctly: to eliminate deadspots etc ... hand entry, pulling all the way to the hips with a good catch phase and NO PAUSE. After that they talk about how not to do it.



Aside:
Reason was poking about youtube was to find good video's for the fix for no rotation or 'flat swimming' - meaning your stomach always faces the bottom of the pool ( versus rotating from side to side ).
Swimming flat is a really common problem imho, and can lead to tendonitis and rotator cuff issues when people push up mileage in the pool.

The drill to fix that issue: as you reach out in front of you, over extend the arm all the way until you feel your body rotate to the side, this should cause the other shoulder to roll out of the water and your belly button should be pointing more towards the sides of the pool than at the black line at the bottom. If taken literally, someone doing this will pause as they over extend, fixing one issue and introducing another

.... if you put a band on, any PAUSE will leave you dragging your legs at bottom of pool and drowning


So ... if you don't swim flat Paul .... which you don't then don't over extend / pause / introduce more complexity .... if you want to swim pretty as you cruise about the south of France in budgie smugglers then by all means carry on ... with Jnr's progress he'll be able to get changed, take a nap, order you a warm beverage before you catch up to him when swimming

Kurt_Godel

interested wrote: »

The first 42 seconds of the video illustrate how to do band work correctly: to eliminate deadspots etc ... hand entry, pulling all the way to the hips with a good catch phase and NO PAUSE. After that they talk about how not to do it.

I was scratching my head watching it- thinking why on earth did you post this crazy entry?... the video starts 43secs in from your link!:)

Just rewatched the whole thing, makes more sense now.

interested

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I was scratching my head watching it- thinking why on earth did you post this crazy entry?... the video starts 43secs in from your link!:)

Just rewatched the whole thing, makes more sense now.

Too funny - fixed it above

griffin100

interested wrote: »

Swimming flat is a really common problem imho, and can lead to tendonitis and rotator cuff issues when people push up mileage in the pool.

You may have just described the cause of all my arm and shoulder problems for the last 6 months:( This is an area I'll work on.

Kurt_Godel

interested wrote: »

... I was playing with myself this morning ....

hehehe

interested

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

hehehe

Cute coming from the guy on here daily fretting about his ... hehehe ... 'stroke'

Kurt_Godel

Sat 2:10 hilly spin (52K, 529m elevation gain)

Another early Saturday morning spin with Kirk. He's great for holding me to the correct pace, I have a tendency to expect all training should be hard, and these longer weekend spins should be easy. We got in some climbing almost despite ourselves, and again he showed the correct way to spin up a hill (vs. Mr. Grinderman here). As well as pointing out my skewers were sticking out too far, my chain needed oil, and my terrible cornering. A lot to learn! Done on the road bike, as the back was a bit sore, and I think I'll move to the roadie for the winter for most of my rides.

Kurt_Godel

Sun 2,200m swim

300sw,200p,100k
4x50 fist + 10sec
400p easy
300sw steady
200p steady
100sw mod
4x50 as 25 fast, 25 easy + 10sec
4x50 choice easy

Out for a meal last night, with an eternal red wine bottle. The days of suffering on Sunday are long gone, so a morning trip to the pool took care of any excess. Decent enough form.

Kurt_Godel

Mon 3,050m Masters swim

400m warm up
6*75 (25k, 25drill, 25swim, 10s)
Main set
2*400 (1 min rest)
First 400 +10s outside your PB (5:49)
Second 400 +15s outside your PB (6:10)
3*200 (45s rest)
First 200 +5s outside your PB (2:55)
Second 200 +10s outside your PB (3:05)
Third 200 +15s outside your PB (3:10)
4*100 (30s rest)
First 100 +3s outside your PB (1:25)
Second 100 +6s outside your PB (1:30)
Third 100 +9s outside your PB (1:32)
Fourth 100 +12s outside your PB (1:32)
400m swim down (incl 300m hypoxic)

Ah this was a tough set, I was hanging at the end. For reference my PB's for 400, 200, 100, are 5:50, 2:49, 1:17. Had a draft for the first half of the first 400, but held back from drafting after that. The 100's were hell on earth, I was hurting during them and didn't have great form.

griffin100

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Mon 3,050m Masters swim

400m warm up
6*75 (25k, 25drill, 25swim, 10s)
Main set
2*400 (1 min rest)
First 400 +10s outside your PB (5:49)
Second 400 +15s outside your PB (6:10)
3*200 (45s rest)
First 200 +5s outside your PB (2:55)
Second 200 +10s outside your PB (3:05)
Third 200 +15s outside your PB (3:10)
4*100 (30s rest)
First 100 +3s outside your PB (1:25)
Second 100 +6s outside your PB (1:30)
Third 100 +9s outside your PB (1:32)
Fourth 100 +12s outside your PB (1:32)
400m swim down (incl 300m hypoxic)

Ah this was a tough set, I was hanging at the end. For reference my PB's for 400, 200, 100, are 5:50, 2:49, 1:17. Had a draft for the first half of the first 400, but held back from drafting after that. The 100's were hell on earth, I was hurting during them and didn't have great form.

Ouch.

Kurt_Godel

Tue 8k easy run @ 4:50/km av

Very busy day, had to swap round s turbo for a run this was easy pace but I felt great running for little perceived effort. The 3rd km had quickened despite trying to slow it down, and towards the end of it I felt a slight pull in the calf. I think the culprit is the 3/4 length tights I ran in, they are tight at the back of the knee. Into the bin with them.
I jogged back without any trouble and it's not hurting now so I dodged a Bullet.

Dory Dory

At what point did you take the tights off and toss them into the bin? Sounds like it was before you "jogged back without any trouble"...which begs the question....skivvies, was it?????

Kurt_Godel

Wed 2,500m swim

200sw,2x100p,4x50k (3:21sw; 1:42, 1:41pb; k all 1:17)
5x200p mod + 15sec (all 3:12-3:15)
5x100sw hard + 10sec (1:27, 1:29, 1:31, 1:32, 1:32)
4x50 as 25fast, 25 easy (fast all <20s)
200 choice easy (last 100 BE 3, 5, 7, 9)

What do I take from the above? A few things:
1. Pull bouy times are a lot closer to swim times than they were before (albeit swim times are still faster). Suggesting leg positioning is an issue, but I think ease of breathing is an issue too.
2. My easy swim pace isn't hugely different than my fast swim pace. I think the limiter here is breathing- I can cruise with decent breathing but "run out of steam" and start slowing (as per the fast 100's).
3. My kick needs a lot of work!

joey100

How does the calf feel today Kurt?

Curious if there is any reason you don't use heart rate on your runs?? And I'm not so sure about your 3/4 lengths being the cause of your calf problem, are you sure your running really easy??

Kurt_Godel

joey100 wrote: »

How does the calf feel today Kurt?

Curious if there is any reason you don't use heart rate on your runs?? And I'm not so sure about your 3/4 lengths being the cause of your calf problem, are you sure your running really easy??

Calf is much better thanks. Just a little tightness up the top where the 3/4 lengths were definitely causing an issue that was definitely not caused by throwing in a 4:13 km with a slight hill

I don't use HR as it would verify that I run easy runs too fast!

will get a new battery for it tomorrow

Kurt_Godel

Wed pm 61min turbo

15 easy
5x(30sec build30sec easy)
5x(5 BG steady cap, 1 easy)
5x(15sec sprint, 45 easy)
5 easy

The goal was to keep it under 60rpm, something I only got into the groove as the set went on. Keep it steady, keep it circular, keep it spinning.

The BG were:
273W, 57rpm
273, 59
271, 58 (did 6 mins, miscounted)
301, 59 (dropped down a gear)
319, 58 (dropped to lowest gear)

mossym

319 is your steady wattage?

Kurt_Godel

mossym wrote: »

319 is your steady wattage?

Keeping a steady circa 60rpm in the lowest gear.

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 8k easy run 4:57/km av; Masters swim/crossfit

Run: a test of the calf, wearing running shorts this time. No pain, no stiffness or tightness, although I took the first couple of km very slow just in case. Picked it up slightly, still felt good, so threw in a faster km (4:11, although it felt like a comfortable pace). Finished up without issue, so all's well that ends well. No more gay tights for me.

Swim:
200 free
6x75 as 25kick 25drill 25swim 15s
4x25 free 1st 25 10m underwater 20s
2nd 25 15m underwater 20s
3rd 25 20m underwater 20s
4th 25 25m underwater
30 sit ups, 30 squats, 30 press ups
4x50 free on 50/ 1:00
25 sit ups, 25 squats, 25 press ups
4x75 free on 1:20/ 1:30
20 sit ups, 20 squats, 20 press ups
4x100 free on 1:45/ 2:00
15 sit ups, 15 squats, 15 press ups
200-400 choice swim down

The underwater were useless, I couldn't get further than 12m or so. The rest was handy enough, nothing too hard and we finished before the hour. I've a feeling brackets will go around this set one day soon!

BTH

That underwater swimming will be useful to avoid the carnage at a turn buoy. :pac:

Kurt_Godel

BTH wrote: »

That underwater swimming will be useful to avoid the carnage at a turn buoy. :pac:

Useful too for proving I have no kick! Or feel for the water...

Fri 2,200m swim

300sw,200p,100k
4x50 fist + 10sec
400p easy
300sw steady
200p steady
100sw mod
4x50 as 25 fast, 25 eay + 10sec
4x50 choice easy (BE 3,5,7,9)

Kurt_Godel

Fri PM 7.96km run 37:06

15 easy (c. 5:10 pace)
5 steady (c. 4:36 pace)
5x(1 hard, 1 easy) (1min hard pace 3:49,3:43,3:33,3:41,3:32)
7 easy (c. 4:22 pace)

Sometimes I try and second guess what is the purpose of a session I'm prescribed*. Beyond the obvious, there might (or might not) be a secondary purpose, or function, or marker. Afterwards I decided the secondary marker was to show the difference between steady pace and easy pace, when they are sandwiched between some hard intervals. The last "easy" was faster than the "steady", and felt a lot easier to boot**.

*real or imagined, doesn't matter if it engages the brain.
**aware this isn't the purpose of the session.

Kurt_Godel

Sat 19k LSR 5:32/km av

Early start again to the weekend as the munchkins did their swimming, I met with Kirk for an easy run. The goal was very much chatting pace, hoping for around 1:20 or so. In the end we went longer than anticipated (1:42) but got in some hills (350m elevation) and some great views along the way. Legs felt good after last nights harder efforts.