Winter Miles, Summer Smiles

Kurt_Godel

Sun 2:30 spin

Didn't get to this as I was laying tiles, watching rugby, and attending an Art exhibition instead. Not ideal for training, but instead I got a happy wifey (tiles), happy kids (rugby with nachos), and happy me (great exhibition). I don't mind missing training if what I'm missing it for is exceptional, and yesterday was.

Kurt_Godel

Mon 2,600m Masters swim incl 1,500m TT

200m warmup
10*50 (25k, 25 drill, 15s)
1,500m TT (23:42)
400m swim down

I looked up my previous 1,500m TT best, it was 24:10 at the beginning of summer. That is 1:37/100m pace, so I set the garmin to beep every 1:38, figuring I'd be a little slower. To be honest it was a shot in the dark- I've tinkered with my stroke recently and this TT would tell of the success or otherwise of that tinkering. Basically, I've introduced more of a reach (from the shoulders) with a view to getting a better catch. I've also worked more of a flutter kick to try and aim for better streamline. And I've worked on my breathing, trying to keep it more relaxed if possible.

The first 100m was golden as expected, breathing on 5 and feeling great. If I could bottle this stroke I'd be a good swimmer (1:23 for the first 100). However, I knew it would bite me later, so I dropped the pace to a more steady one, letting the breathing and decent form dictate the pace. My watch was beeping every 1:38 and I knew I was ahead of the game. The goal was to maintain a steady pace. M was on my toes throughout, I was leading out, and overtaking F a few times throughout the session. So no draft benefit, little hinderance (F had graciously agreed to let us pass quickly with a toe tap), just me and my stroke against the clock. I felt strong throughout, the reach was working well, and I only started to breath on 2 for the last 500m.

It turns out that my pacing was spot on (after the initial 100), every 100 done between 1:34-1:36. I was delighted to see the time afterwards, almost 30 seconds faster for a new PB. Delighted too in that it validates the recent stroke work.

PB beer on a monday night :D

Dory Dory

Why did you choose to start out breathing every 5 strokes? And your quote, "I only started to breathe on 2 for the last 500m" would seem to indicate you feel that breathing every 2 on a 1500m tt isn't exactly desirable. ??? So, are you saying that 1500m world record holders Sun Yang and Katie Ledecky could go faster if they switched from their every 2 to your every 5? :)

(Congrats on the shiny new pb. Maybe next time humor me and try channeling your inner Sun Yang.)

Kurt_Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

Why did you choose to start out breathing every 5 strokes? And your quote, "I only started to breathe on 2 for the last 500m" would seem to indicate you feel that breathing every 2 on a 1500m tt isn't exactly desirable. ??? So, are you saying that 1500m world record holders Sun Yang and Katie Ledecky could go faster if they switched from their every 2 to your every 5? :)

(Congrats on the shiny new pb. Maybe next time humor me and try channeling your inner Sun Yang.)

Ha well spotted! I actually thought of your advice during the TT, a link of Sun Yang you posted showing him breathing (ON ONE!!!) during his 1,500!

In a nutshell, my body position is much better if I limit lifting the head to breath. The first 100m I can BE5 with good position, switch to BE3 for the next 600m or so, then start throwing in a length or two BE2, before finishing the last 500m BE2. I have much to learn about breathing- I lift the head too high, I gasp for air, I take on too much and don't exhale it all. More relaxed breathing means better form, and thats what I'm trying for- whether that means BE2 or BE3 throughout a 1,500. At the moment every time I lift my head its breaking streamline too much.

joey100

I was going to ask the exact same thing as Dory Kurt! I can see how it would work for you in a pool, but if your training for tri I think it will be a bit different. Normally it's a sprint start to try and catch feet and then turning into a more steady stroke as the race progresses. I can see the benefit of breathing every 5 or more in a 100m sprint in a pool but I'm not sure it translates well into the sort of open water swimming we do. I generally try and breathe 3,2,3,2,3,2,3,2 and find it works well both in the pool and outdoors.

But your TT was in the pool so obviously that works pretty well for you in that environment, covering the distance you did. Very similar test to a 20 min TT interested used to have us do on his Friday night sessions and worked well for me trying to find a sustainable pace over a distance I would never usually swim in training. Gave me and idea of a pace I could hold over Olympic distance where before that I was taking it too easy, worrying about pushing too much.

Kurt_Godel

TBH how I did the TT was exactly how I'd swim an Oly race; BE5 for first 100m fast to get clean water or good feet, then switch to steady pace BE3; BE3/2; and BE2 for last 500m.

(of course, there is no "correct" way, whatever gets you faster is what works!)

Dory Dory

Work on your body position then.

Seriously, it is my experience that when racing any distance of 200 meters or more, you should be breathing every 2 from the start. Oxygen is good. There is no need to deprive yourself of oxygen at any time during that swim. If your body position is what is limiting you, then tinker with that. Work on that. Even your 3, 2, 3, 2 pattern is unnecessarily oxygen depriving when compared to every 2. Sure, in both a pool and an open water situation you should/could toss a glance to the side you aren't breathing to, but employ the every 3 just once or twice every 50 meters to get a look....or employ the Sun Yang and breath on 1 (and not 3!) to toss that glance.

P.S. - I doubt I breathed anything other than on every 2 the entire 2.4 miles last Sunday.

Kurt_Godel

Will try BE2 from the get-go next time!

Yes, body position (head position) needs a lot of work. Always more work...

interested

"limit lifting the head to breath"

... and I appreciate

a) Its d'internet - what is written isn't always accurate
b) You may or may not be lifting your head but someone reading might take it literally .. Kurts lifting his head to breath .. it must be so ...
c) Its in the context of a pool TT ...

but .... since you said it more than once in that post... when breathing you should turn your face to side to breath in, don't lift .... slightest lift typically drops the hips, increases drag, for some even causes one hip to stick out increasing drag

Raising your head to glance during OW swimming ... in a wetsuit, that lifts you artificially anyhow ... enabling you to swim in the correct direction ... is GOOD ... lifting your head when NOT sighting is BAD

Kurt_Godel

interested wrote: »

"limit lifting the head to breath"

b) You may or may not be lifting your head but someone reading might take it literally .. Kurts lifting his head to breath .. it must be so ...

Yes I should have said I rotate the head too high when breathing. In general looking up in the pool is a no-no (if only because you see the coach on deck berating you )

I've made some progress since the days you first saw me headbanging my way along the pool, but head position still needs work. As does breathing! Funnily enough, I've reached a stage where I'm looking at my son as he swims 50's, learning from his perfect head position.

Kurt_Godel

tue 55 min bike

Plan was;
15 ez
5×(30 build, 30 easy)
5x (6min bg, 1 ez)
5x (15s sprint, 45s ez)
5 ez

I intended doing this while the kids were swimming, best intentions laid asunder by turning back for a forgotten swim bag... she was embarrassed but we've all been there! So with a later start I was fighting the dying light, with adequate rear lights but a tiny front light. Set off on the old N11 which has little traffic, did 5min ez, all the BG, the sprints, and a roll around town. It was very dark on the last BG, glad to get back. No PM numbers as I was on the roadie but I kept the BG steady rather than pushing anything.

Kurt_Godel

Wed 2,900m swim

200sw,200p,100k
100sw,100B+B,300sw,400B+B
400sw,300B+B,200sw,100B+B
4x50 fast on 60
200 choice easy

in main set sw is easy, B+B mod - all + 15-20sec

First B+B in a while, relaxed easy pace. I hate relaxed easy pace (in every discipline) but its necessary. Being a firm advocate of "no pain no gain", slowing down doesn't come easy. However, it gives a chance to practice technique, in particular work on my rotation.

I'm expecting big changes- and big gains- in the pool this winter

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 45 min easy turbo; 60 min swim/deck

Easy spinning without the numbers today, while watching Countdown and Rachel Riley's figure(s). After a couple of work days that involved a lot of travel and stress, it was a much needed brain switch off (mind you I still beat both contestants with 95 points).

More travel after, pick up work documents in Dublin, then to the pool where coach had a very ambitious set on the board:
200 free
6x50 free 25kick/25fist 10s
6x25 free 10m Max/15m pace 15s
Main set
2x200 free on 3mins
20 sit ups/ 20 squats/ 90s plank/ 20 sit ups
Repeat 5 times
200 swim down

One look and I knew I wasn't doing it 5 times... in the end I got 3 repeats of the main set done. It was a weird night with who turned up, so I led out. The 2x200 free on 3mins were:
2:54, 3:04
??? lane mix up on the second
3:03, 3:09
On a fresher night I'd have hoped to get them all under 3:00, but work lately has me tired.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Thurs 45 min easy turbo; 60 min swim/deck

Easy spinning without the numbers today, while watching Countdown and Rachel Riley's figure(s). After a couple of work days that involved a lot of travel and stress, it was a much needed brain switch off (mind you I still beat both contestants with 95 points).

More travel after, pick up work documents in Dublin, then to the pool where coach had a very ambitious set on the board:
200 free
6x50 free 25kick/25fist 10s
6x25 free 10m Max/15m pace 15s
Main set
2x200 free on 3mins
20 sit ups/ 20 squats/ 90s plank/ 20 sit ups
Repeat 5 times
200 swim down

One look and I knew I wasn't doing it 5 times... in the end I got 3 repeats of the main set done. It was a weird night with who turned up, so I led out. The 2x200 free on 3mins were:
2:54, 3:04
??? lane mix up on the second
3:03, 3:09
On a fresher night I'd have hoped to get them all under 3:00, but work lately has me tired.

or doing poxy sit ups, squats, planks and more situps instead of focussing on swimming?

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Tiredness is proportional to the amount of time spent working in Dublin, as your empty training schedule proves

Entered Aware 10k yet?

As we both know work has not been the issue this week but stuff that I cannot post on a public forum.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Tiredness is proportional to the amount of time spent working in Dublin, as your empty training schedule proves

Entered Aware 10k yet?

Where is the link again?

tunney

tunney wrote: »

Where is the link again?

Found it. At least we will have the same start times. I thought they might send the sub 40 minutes off before the over 40 minutes. Nope, so we can start together and spend the first 50 metres beside each other.

Kurt_Godel

Fri 2,100m swim

100sw,100p,100k (1:38, 1:41, 2:42)
6x50 as des 1-3, fast 4-6 on 60 (des 46, 45, 43; fast 40, 39, 39)
3x100sw steady on 2 - (1:32, 1:31, 1:31)
3x100p steady on 2 - (1:35,1:35,1:36)
3x100sw hard on 2 - (1:25, 1:25, 1:24)
3x100p hard on 2 - (1:30, 1:29, 1:30)
100k,100p,100sw (3:15back kick, 1:44, 1:45)

A test set, I think. I'm happy enough with those numbers, the hard was hard pace rather than max (race) pace.

Kurt_Godel

Fri PM 8k in 39mins

15 easy (5:05 av pace)
5 steady (4:24)
7x(1 hard, 1 easy) (hard:3:58, 3:43, 4:02, 3:36, 3:39, 3:40, 3:37)
5 easy (5:07)

Last weeks set with two extra hard reps. Last week I found the final easy, very easy, so figured I didn't go hard enough on the reps. Did this in the forest, so Garmin can be off, but they felt harder than last week.

Kurt_Godel

Sat 15k run, 6:10/km pace

Very rainy this morning so cancelled the scheduled spin in favour of a slow run around the trails of Glenart Castle in Arklow. My right calf was pinching from the getgo, so I walked it for a while, before jogging again. We kept the pace right down, the mantra for the next while is "hard runs hard, easy runs easy". My running partner is of similar mindset as myself in that he would be more inclined to "run through" a calf niggle thus compounding the problem. Sometimes two heads are better than one.

Great myriad of trails in Glenart, a new discovery for me and somewhere I'll return to in a heartbeat.

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 3,150m Masters swim

250 free
10x75 free 25 kick, 25 fist, 25 swim 15s
5x400 free on 8mins
150 choice swim down

400's were better than I expected, steady effort. 5:55, 5:58, 6:03, 6:10, 6:40(stopped with cramp a couple of times). No draft, just a few of us in the lane tonight. Considering my best 400 TT is 5:50 I have to view those times as solid progress.

shotgunmcos

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

400's were better than I expected, steady effort. 5:55, 5:58, 6:03, 6:10, 6:40(stopped with cramp a couple of times)........ I have to view those times as solid progress.

I'll say. Nice swimming KG. Expecting my @ss to be handed to me if we meet in OW again :cool:

Kurt_Godel

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I'll say. Nice swimming KG. Expecting my @ss to be handed to me if we meet in OW again :cool:

You're no longer swimming with faster fish, and you are slower... solution? Get back with your Masters group if you can Mike, you thrive on a bit of competition, with comparing yourselves to others. There's no fundamental reason I should be faster than you, but training and technique.

(Which are pretty fundamental, mind you!)

Kurt_Godel

Fri 6km easy run 5:02 pace

In the forest at dusk/dark.

It's been a pretty dusk/dark week, for other reasons. Exercise was neglected. That isn't a good move, I should just find the time and get the sessions done. It's most important that a healthy routine is adhered to. Get it done, and also take care of the other stuff. Don't get it done, and the other stuff takes care of you.

Writing this here to remind me in a months time.

Kurt_Godel

Sat 16.9k hill run in 1:45 (596m elevation)

A wet, heavy, and bleak morning greeted us at the start of this run around the Kyle loop. Very mucky once onto the Wicklow Way, with cattle having traversed it before us runners. Slog slog slog up the road again, past Mick's dream house , and slog slog slog again once offroad. By the time we'd hit the top it had cleared, and we had great views. Very enjoyable hilly mucky wetty run.

And back in time to look after the kids while wifey makes her 100th shopping trip for extra Holloween treats... she starts planning Holloween in Sept, has had decorations up since Oct 1st, and they will likely remain up well into November.

Dory Dory

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

And back in time to look after the kids while wifey makes her 100th shopping trip for extra Holloween treats... she starts planning Holloween in Sept, has had decorations up since Oct 1st, and they will likely remain up well into November.

My kind of woman!!!

Kurt_Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

My kind of woman!!!

She's a doll all right, they made her from a special mold.

You came from a pretty special mold yourself Carol, I don't mind saying that You're one of the best reasons to post on this forum; thanks for all you help, assistance, and good advice over the past few years!

And happy Hallowe'en! Boo!

Kurt_Godel

Sun 10.24k run 5:05min/km (Hillbrook loop 52:17)

Today is the most stunning day, great warm sunshine making the most of autumnal colours. I ran up around the Hillbrook loop, an old staple from years ago. Felt good in the legs, no residue after yesterday's slopfest.

Kurt_Godel

Mon 5.8k jog; 2,700m Masters swim

Jog around Arklow, keeping it really slow. My calf started getting tight after 20 mins, stretched and continued. It's sore now, damn it.

Masters swim:
10*50 as (25 IMO, 25 swim, 10s)
Main set:
2*150m on 2:20 (in 2:05-2:15)
4*25m des on 30
1:30 rest
Repeat 4 times
600m warmdown

Decent enough set, the coach told us to focus on hand entry and EVF throughout. I got a few pointers on entry and catch which seemed to make a difference. Calf was sore pushing off.

Kurt_Godel

Tue 30k bike

10 easy
5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
5min TT
10 easy
20min TT
5 easy

TT|Distance|Av speed|Av watts|Av cad
5 min|3.01|36kph|301|86
20 min|11.81|36kph|284|88


First of this winters bike tests. I did them on local roads, which are shyte resistance in places, but otherwise sheltered, low traffic, and flattish. Most important they are repeatable.
The 5min TT was on a rough section, vibro-ass throughout. The 20min TT had two tight hairpin stop-and-turns, which slowed things somewhat. Tough effort throughout, so I can be sure they were honest TT's.
I cleaned the bike chain earlier and it sounded and responded much better. Need to get a fit done though, I'm still not comfortable down in aero position.