Idea spitballing

SNAKEDOC

I've been toying with an idea for a large scale event for charity along the lines of the a jailbreak. My idea is to have participants sugn up either as an eacapee or as a hunter force member. Eacapee's will have no prior knowledge of routes or checkpoints only their start point. Teams or single enterants would be allowed. The event could be tan over a day or even a weekend. The idea would be for escapees to complete a route theough the mountains without being captured by the hunter force. Anyone caught fails to finish and if they choose can join the hunt and try and catch other escapees. Obviously its a shell of an idea and one of many my brain farts out on a daily basis so be gentle with remarks. I have done some research and the closest event is the run and walk every year from dublin castle into the wicklow mountains as the art oneill challenge. Just imagine this with a hunter force behind you and know idea where your finish line is

BarryD

Are dentists with high powered rifles allowed to participate?

Sounds like a half decent idea in theory, at least it would spread people over a wide area. I suppose question would be how to stop people crossing private lands either to evade capture or look for people. You'd have to have a well defined area of access and then the problem of policing that?

SNAKEDOC

Well in regards to access the wicklow mountains are operated on a basis of roaming access. There is some private fields but by and large most poeple have no problem with hikers and backpackers traversing their lands as long as there is no bad behaviour and such. The route would be kept to a fairly close area anyway so as to make it difficult for escapees and easier to find them for the hunters. Checkpoints every few km would ensure people were sticking to the route also and help with flow of people and also to have pickup and first aid spots. As for the high powered rifle idea think not. Although airsoft guns would be fun.

BarryD

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

As for the high powered rifle idea think not. Although airsoft guns would be fun.

I was writing tongue firmly in cheek, Snakedoc

But surely checkpoints etc. couldn't work - sure all the 'hunters' would do is identify and hang around the checkpoint areas. Access would be a problem - there is still plenty of upland that is not in public ownership. Go look at a Dublin Mountains Partnership map to get an idea or the NP boundaries in Wicklow. If I was an 'escapee', I'd be inclined to go anywhere to trick the pursuers. And if I was pursuing I'd be inclined to think people might stray into these areas. An organiser could specify that only NP and Coillte land could be used but it'd be impossible to 'police'.

There is a 'tradition' of mountain marathons, more so in UK and Europe though some have been run here. In these, typically teams of two run or walk a course, visiting specified checkpoints but choosing the best route to get around. Often an overnight camp is included. This might be a better structure.

Gasherbraun

It is an interesting idea but without wanting to dampen your enthusiasm you may have trouble getting a permit from the National Parks authority for an event like this. They made it very difficult for the organisers of the Art O'Neill and numbers on that event are capped.

Possibly there may be a less sensitive area it could take place in?

PS the original Art O'Neill (1592) was of course all about the hunted and those hunting them....:-)

SNAKEDOC

Thanks for the feedback. As i said its far from a completed plan. As for the boundries obviously permission from the national park coillte and land owners would have to be recieved. Check points would allow for policing routes to a certain extent but a hunter force would simply not be given that info. A check point could only be one person at a pre designated coordinate. I know the history surrounding the art oneill challenge and its part of where my idea came from. Its a mashup of my love for the mountains the art oneill event and the jailbreak events some colleges host. Your thoughts are great none the less and thanks for your views. Probably more trouble than its worth

Insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance insurance!

SNAKEDOC

I believe once would have sufficed as i'm not a complete idiot and i can read. Also yes events of any nature by their very definition require insurance as does most things these days where there is a gathering of people. So thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.

SNAKEDOC

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

I believe once would have sufficed as i'm not a complete idiot and i can read. Also yes events of any nature by their very definition require insurance as does most things these days where there is a gathering of people. So thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.

No need to get defensive.

I was merely pointing out that the beginning, middle and end of any discussion on whether something can be organised should be insurance. Tough Mudder has been the subject of high profile lawsuits, but then again that is a multi million brand that can pay to fight them, and probably pays a lot of insurance to begin with. It will also, of course, be the first question anyone who allows you use their land will ask, as they may be in a precarious position under the Occupier's Liability Act where they allow their land to be used for recreational purposes.

thehippychippy

I love the idea Snakedoc. Any chance something like countryside alliance insurance would cover it? Or perhaps they could be approached if you got sufficient numbers interested?

jackdarabbit

show on tonight on BBC Two @21:00 called Special Forces - Ultimate Hell , Contestants are being hunted like challenge you mentioned above ,by the way your idea sounds great , where can i get an application form

SNAKEDOC

Thanks again goe the feedback bith good and bad. Conor i wasnt getting defensive i was just pointing out that your oost was kinda stupid. Anyone with half a brain realises insurance for anything is required. As for having discussion starting with insurance and having insurance discussions in the middle and at the end well maybe your better off on the insurance discussions boards not the outdoor persuits one.

I didnt see the bbc show but my idea is a basic concept from sas selection training where recruits are given basic gear and hunted by parachute regiment personnel across the breckon beacons in wales. Onviously this would be a civilian version and toned down dramaticlly. Imagine hiking for a weekend while teying to stay hidden for as long as possible thats basiclly it. Think of my idea as geocaching with your target moving.

As any concept begins well at least my ideas i rationalise dangers and think if other more extreme events run and can be insured then why not my less extreme idea. So i didnt automaticlly dismiss my idea out if the box as uninsurable.
Im glad some think its at least feasible and who knows maybe i'll bang iut some emails to some onsurance firms with a goal of having an event run. I'll keep you posted.

Enduro

I wouldn't see insurance as a big issue. multi-day advententure races, mountain marathons and Rogaines are all organised in Ireland with insurance cover.

The fact that people would be scattered and not all churning up the same route should help somewhat with the national park. keeping numbers under 200 would undoubtedly still be necessary for them though.

You could put trackers on everyone to (a) monitor everyone for rules violations and safety and (b) make it hugely spectator friendly. Adds to the cost, but adds hugely to events like this. I've used these lad's trackers on a few events and they work excellently. Obviously competotors (hunter and hunted) would need to be banned from using any internet devices or open commications devices (i.e no mobiles).

It's an interesting idea, but I reckon it would take a huge chunk of your time and energy to organise. Chances are you wouldn't get massive numbers, but you would get plenty from the lunatic fringe of outdoor sports. I'd give it a go anyway!

BarryD

Enduro wrote: »

I wouldn't see insurance as a big issue. multi-day advententure races, mountain marathons and Rogaines are all organised in Ireland with insurance cover.

The fact that people would be scattered and not all churning up the same route should help somewhat with the national park. keeping numbers under 200 would undoubtedly still be necessary for them though.

You could put trackers on everyone to (a) monitor everyone for rules violations and safety and (b) make it hugely spectator friendly. Adds to the cost, but adds hugely to events like this. I've used these lad's trackers on a few events and they work excellently. Obviously competotors (hunter and hunted) would need to be banned from using any internet devices or open commications devices (i.e no mobiles).

It's an interesting idea, but I reckon it would take a huge chunk of your time and energy to organise. Chances are you wouldn't get massive numbers, but you would get plenty from the lunatic fringe of outdoor sports. I'd give it a go anyway!

GPS tracking devices are worth considering, you'd need ones with sufficient power for continuous use. But they only track where the tracking device goes. So if one was hunted, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out that you lodge your tracker in a suitable spot (within the permissible bounds) if you thought people were about to locate you - cross into an out of bounds area and then return to pick up the tracker and carry on. Against the rules and all that but isn't the whole point of these ideas to evade 'capture'? Of course, the 'hunters' could claim afterwards that their track came close to yours at a specific time but you could logically argue that you were hiding and they passed close by.

It kinda depends on how you measure success - would it be to simply evade capture for a specific time or evade capture and reach a specific objective.

How would the searchers know who to look for? On any given weekend in say Wicklow, you could have many groups and individuals out and about on the hills. Some might be in your challenge but most not?

Not sure if that's any help - it's a simple idea but complicated to structure I think. I see there's various TV shows on these approx lines now but a TV show can be staged and edited to make for a watchable programme - so a lot more control.

Enduro

BarryD wrote: »

GPS tracking devices are worth considering, you'd need ones with sufficient power for continuous use. But they only track where the tracking device goes. So if one was hunted, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out that you lodge your tracker in a suitable spot (within the permissible bounds) if you thought people were about to locate you - cross into an out of bounds area and then return to pick up the tracker and carry on. Against the rules and all that but isn't the whole point of these ideas to evade 'capture'? Of course, the 'hunters' could claim afterwards that their track came close to yours at a specific time but you could logically argue that you were hiding and they passed close by.

The tracking devices could be the target! If the device is located the owner is out, so if they have hidden somewhere else it becomes immaterial, they're eliminated anyway. Standard practice would be to attach the tracker to the owner's rucksack shoulder strap (Rucksack would be madatory, and used to carry other mandatory safety gear). Can make a rule that if the tracker isn't attached with its original seal then the owner is automatically eliminated. Another rule could be that hunters getting their tracker in close enough proximity to hunted trckers would be an automatic elimination as well, so in your scenario the hunted would more than likely still be eliminated.

The above trackers generally last 2 days without a battery change, so should be suitable for the OP's event duration.

Still have an issue of people potentially abandoning their rucksacks and hiding and managing to evade capture because their rucksack is harder to find than a person + rucksack, but in any tracked races I've done I haven't heard of anyone trying to cheat by removing/ trackers... most people who participate in these kind of outdoor events tend to have good sporting ethics. Definitely not foolproof by any means, but should help keep things more on the straight and narrow (as well as bringing other benifits).

SNAKEDOC

Thanks for the ideas lads. The trackers are a good point. I was considering the tracker idea but only for making sure poeple actually hit each checkpoint and stay safe. I was also considering having each hunter geoup or individual being assigned a number like at the marathon also each escapee has a number and when an escapee is caught they have to as per the rules hand over their number so they cant continue through checkpoints. I was thinking of having it as a two day event and having a camp site half way theough where every participant could camp and have food and a few laughs the first evening. There would be an exclusion zone around the camp site where no one could be captured. Prizes would go to those able to finish and for those able to capture the most participants. It would get exponentially harder for the hunted as each escapee could be allowed to aid the hunt but not make captures themselves. Obviously it would work on number reatrictions 200 would be optimistic im thinking so even 150 would be great to get. Its an idea to run by the folks at the national park. Keep the thoughts coming. I have a close friend working in a very well known radio staion and i had thought about approaching them as sponsers which would be great for advertising so i'll keep u posted. Stay tuned.