Saving/Applying for a mortgage 2015/16/17/18/19

highgiant1985

audi12 wrote: »

Buying houses when the market is falling is not the smartest move in the world you would think.

If you're buying a home you intend to live in long term then its less of a concern.

Prices are usually rising or falling. Trying to time it based on the perfect time to buy financially is extremely difficult to do and some times if you find the right place you just have to go for it, trying not to over burden yourself too much in doing so.

Its very difficult to know when the right time to buy is and sometimes the life point people reach can make it the right time for them to buy.

audi12

highgiant1985 wrote: »

If you're buying a home you intend to live in long term then its less of a concern.

Prices are usually rising or falling. Trying to time it based on the perfect time to buy financially is extremely difficult to do and some times if you find the right place you just have to go for it, trying not to over burden yourself too much in doing so.

Its very difficult to know when the right time to buy is and sometimes the life point people reach can make it the right time for them to buy.

still end up paying more each month so I would say yes it is a concern pretty big one

quadrifoglio verde

audi12 wrote: »

still end up paying more each month so I would say yes it is a concern pretty big one

But what happens if you think now is the lowest price point, you buy and 12 months later theyve fallen 10%?
What happens if you think now is the wrong time to buy so wait 12 months and now the prices have risen 10%
in both situations you actually want to buy and are renting which you loathe

<MOD SNIP >

Or do you buy when you want to buy for what you can afford in a place you're happy living in. Id love to have bought in 2012 when the market was at its lowest (in hindsight that is, I thought it would drop more) but I wouldn't have been able to buy as I couldn't get a mortgage.

Yes you might pay more than the man across the road did but their comes a time in your life when you want to own your own house.
So long as you don't crib and moan that the house is worth less than the mortgage a few years later, I don't care.

Zenify

audi12 wrote: »

still end up paying more each month so I would say yes it is a concern pretty big one

I don't own a house yet so I'm not the best person to answer this but.... my plan is to buy soon (ish) and I will buy a property I can afford for a price I am happy to pay. I plan to stay in it for a very long time. There will probably be ups and downs in the market while I am living there over my life, which are all irrelevant as I am not buying to sell again.

With this attitude, telling someone they bought at the wrong time is like telling someone they picked the wrong lotto numbers. I am buying a property to have a home, not for the lotto.

audi12

Zenify wrote: »

I don't own a house yet so I'm not the best person to answer this but.... my plan is to buy soon (ish) and I will buy a property I can afford for a price I am happy to pay. I plan to stay in it for a very long time. There will probably be ups and downs in the market while I am living there over my life, which are all irrelevant as I am not buying to sell again.

With this attitude, telling someone they bought at the wrong time is like telling someone they picked the wrong lotto numbers. I am buying a property to have a home, not for the lotto.

House prices fell last month and the month before hardly like trying to predict the lotto

audi12

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

But what happens if you think now is the lowest price point, you buy and 12 months later theyve fallen 10%?
What happens if you think now is the wrong time to buy so wait 12 months and now the prices have risen 10%
in both situations you actually want to buy and are renting which you loathe

<MOD SNIP >

Or do you buy when you want to buy for what you can afford in a place you're happy living in. Id love to have bought in 2012 when the market was at its lowest (in hindsight that is, I thought it would drop more) but I wouldn't have been able to buy as I couldn't get a mortgage.

Yes you might pay more than the man across the road did but their comes a time in your life when you want to own your own house.
So long as you don't crib and moan that the house is worth less than the mortgage a few years later, I don't care.

House prices have fell the last few months would at least hold off to see how it plays out while they are falling but your decesion

quadrifoglio verde

audi12 wrote: »

House prices have fell the last few months would at least hold off to see how it plays out while they are falling but your decesion

And the only way you know they've risen is the month after when they've been published.
When I find a house that I like and can afford (theres plenty I don't like but can afford), Ill be buying and not giving a damn whether the price falls or rises.

Ive other schemes to become a millionaire than my ppr :cool:

audi12

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

And the only way you know they've risen is the month after when they've been published.
When I find a house that I like and can afford (theres plenty I don't like but can afford), Ill be buying and not giving a damn whether the price falls or rises.

Ive other schemes to become a millionaire than my ppr :cool:

Thats your business then ..I have a buy to let application going to the bank soon I take a different view

Zenify

audi12 wrote: »

House prices fell last month and the month before hardly like trying to predict the lotto

House prices were rapidly increasing for years, then 2008 happened

audi12

Zenify wrote: »

House prices were rapidly increasing for years, then 2008 happened

what is your point

athtrasna

Mod note

Please remember this thread is about saving for a mortgage, recent posts are straying into territory more suited to the property market thread.

L1011

audi12 wrote: »

Buying houses when the market is falling is not the smartest move in the world you would think.

Most people are buying a house - singular - to live in.

Market shouldn't really concern people planning to own it for 20+ years. If you are in unreliable employment and actively have to consider selling it in future to cover the mortgage that is about the only reason not to.

A falling market makes it easier to save to get a house in the first place, most importantly to the thread.

Del007

Are house price falling all over the country or is it just in Dublin?

I'm in Cork so mostly interested in here

SarahMollie

Zenify wrote: »

I don't own a house yet so I'm not the best person to answer this but.... my plan is to buy soon (ish) and I will buy a property I can afford for a price I am happy to pay. I plan to stay in it for a very long time. There will probably be ups and downs in the market while I am living there over my life, which are all irrelevant as I am not buying to sell again.

With this attitude, telling someone they bought at the wrong time is like telling someone they picked the wrong lotto numbers. I am buying a property to have a home, not for the lotto.

This is really sensible IMO. You're buying a roof over your head, so your only comparison should be against the cost of renting.

There are lots of people sitting on the fence, waiting for something that might never come. Now is arguably a good time to be a buyer as you won't be falling over people at open viewings, getting caught up in bidding wars etc, and if the seller is serious you'll likely do well.

If you've your deposit saved, and you can afford the property type you want, and you've evaluated all other options and it still makes sense, then ignore the market. If you're going to stay they for 10+years then the market doesn't really matter.

Bradz213

Have just applied for a mortgage. The broker seemed optimistic but I'm a little less so. We've been renting and saving bits here and there and we were lucky enough to receive a large amount of the deposit as a gift. So just hoping we get good news soon!

Black_Knight

Anyone know of any decent brokers in Cork city area? We've lurked long enough on daft and myhome over the last few months, and have even gone a viewed 2 open houses.
There's a couple of other houses we wouldnt mind viewing but might feel like idiots getting an agent to show us around when we've no AIP. Could go straight to the banks but only the 1 of us is 6 months in the job so a broker might give us a better idea where we stand.

Regards our savings, we'd have the 10%+20% deposit saved. Its more the aftercosts that we're not totally prepared for. Stamp duty, solicitors fees, engineers fees, buying a couch, bed and kitchen table. Washing machine, dryer, fridge (if not in the house). Those are the sneaky ones that can all add up (guessing in the region of 10-15k)

SarahMollie

Black_Knight wrote: »

Anyone know of any decent brokers in Cork city area? We've lurked long enough on daft and myhome over the last few months, and have even gone a viewed 2 open houses.
There's a couple of other houses we wouldnt mind viewing but might feel like idiots getting an agent to show us around when we've no AIP. Could go straight to the banks but only the 1 of us is 6 months in the job so a broker might give us a better idea where we stand.

Regards our savings, we'd have the 10%+20% deposit saved. Its more the aftercosts that we're not totally prepared for. Stamp duty, solicitors fees, engineers fees, buying a couch, bed and kitchen table. Washing machine, dryer, fridge (if not in the house). Those are the sneaky ones that can all add up (guessing in the region of 10-15k)

Hi BK,

Cant help you on the broker front but can offer some assistnace on the after costs.

I'd say you need to budget about €2k for legal fees including registration etc. You could possibly get this for less, and it might be no harm to get your solicitor in place now, even though they likely won't be doing anythign for a few months. You can have those costs agreed well ahead of time.
1% Stamp duty
€350 survey
€150 valuation for mortgage

I replaced my kitchen before moving in, and the costs for all the appliances came in about €1800. Kitchen units and fitting are more again of course, but it will depend what the house needs. Most houses that I saw, the white goods were included, but I just too the notion that I wanted all new as I was buying a new kitchen, but strictly speaking, it wasnt absolutely necessary.

I spent about 1500 on 2 new sofas for the living room and about €500 on other bits and bobs like corner unit, coffee tables, tv unit etc.

I spent €900 on a new bed and mattress, and about €500 on a new dining table and chairs.

I also spent about €3500 on having the whole place repainted, new carpets and new laminate flooring in the kitchen and hallway.

As you can see, it really all adds up! It really depends what you're buying though. My place had been rented out previously, and I felt some things were just grotty and needed replacing, even if they were functional. If I'd been able to buy a brand new house, or even something that had been owner occupied, I might have had less to do.

All this was done before I moved in.Things like beds for the spare rooms were then bought over time as I got around it it. Concentrate on the things you need immediately and prioritize.

Black_Knight

SarahMollie wrote: »

All this was done before I moved in.Things like beds for the spare rooms were then bought over time as I got around it it. Concentrate on the things you need immediately and prioritize.

Definately, once we have our white appliances, a bed, and something to eat off of, we'd be happy. We've similar costs in mind, other than the dining table. We've our eye on something. Its pricey, but it's something we'd be looking to keep indefinitely, and would be a feature of the room (that said, it all depends on the size of the room).

mirrorwall14

If you have space in your current rental start stalking done deal and adverts. We are lucky to be in semifurnished so we own our couch/chair/bed/tv and some furniture and the tumble dryer. However we have also accepted a second hand cooker from our parents in great M condition and kitchen table and chairs even though it means having the landlords ones in a corner/spare room because it's one less expense when we do get a house. Nothing really matches but it's all fully functioning and serviceable

All we will need will be a washing machine and fridge when moving in and when we get near that stage I'll be watching for a second hand one to have.

I want every penny for the bricks and mortar, everything else can be collected over time and decoration can wait until we have saved

SarahMollie

Black_Knight wrote: »

Definately, once we have our white appliances, a bed, and something to eat off of, we'd be happy. We've similar costs in mind, other than the dining table. We've our eye on something. Its pricey, but it's something we'd be looking to keep indefinitely, and would be a feature of the room (that said, it all depends on the size of the room).

Yes, funnily enough this is the one area I cheaped out

I put in a new kitchen, all bright white and reflective (this room doesnt get much natural light), with a cool tone wood laminate on the floor. This is not my forever home, so I went to IKEA and bought an ultra modern white roundtable and coloured perspex chairs to pop against the white. It looks very cool now but definitely not an investment piece. It will do for a few years though and for now I love the ridiculousness of it.

Everything I bought was decent but not extortionate, as if I move in the future, some might come with me and some might not. I also may or may not sell the property, depending on my circumstances in a few years, so I've not bought anything so precious that if I end up renting it out in 5 years, that I'll lose and sleep over. I definitely had that in mind when I was buying.

I know I definitely had a lot to spend versus some people when they first move in, but it took me ages to complete on a property, so I'd plenty saved when the time came - I know thats not the case for everyone.

The previous owner left their furniture (and was being painful about it and I just wanted to close) so I arranged myself for a woman who works with the homeless to come over and take what she wanted. I ended up donating 3 beds, 2 sofas, coffee table, bedside tables, etc and knowing that they went to a deserving cause. I actually also had my decorators remove a fireplace (not a real one, I'm not mad!) from the living room as I felt it was limiting the space, and managed to sell it on adverts for €200! So at least that was a small amount to offset against all my other costs!

hawkeye_bmr

Myself and OH have been trying to get a mortgage on the go. Have 28k in savings and combined gross of 45k, so we are looking in and around 125k~.

Had returned home from 3 years in Oz where we had started to save for a house before coming home. Currently living with parents.

Applied with BOI after 3 months in our jobs, got declined on basis of needing to be in job for 12 months.

Last month we tried with PTSB, as we were both over our 6 months probation. Advisor in bank was more than helpful, said all our paperwork was good, good record of savings & deposit, both employers happy with our performances to say we had long term futures at both jobs.
Bank manager was also happy with all the above, application submitted to head office only to come back a few days later, declined.

Wanted us to be in jobs 12 months also.

Gutted wasn't the word, been saving every cent and itching to get our own place and get out from under my parents feet.

They said they're shocked that it was declined and are appealing the decision for us. Hoping that it gets approve it on appeal!

Anybody know how long appeals would take?

Black_Knight

hawkeye_bmr wrote: »

Myself and OH have been trying to get a mortgage on the go. Have 28k in savings and combined gross of 45k, so we are looking in and around 125k~.

Had returned home from 3 years in Oz where we had started to save for a house before coming home. Currently living with parents.

Applied with BOI after 3 months in our jobs, got declined on basis of needing to be in job for 12 months.

Last month we tried with PTSB, as we were both over our 6 months probation. Advisor in bank was more than helpful, said all our paperwork was good, good record of savings & deposit, both employers happy with our performances to say we had long term futures at both jobs.
Bank manager was also happy with all the above, application submitted to head office only to come back a few days later, declined.

Wanted us to be in jobs 12 months also.

Gutted wasn't the word, been saving every cent and itching to get our own place and get out from under my parents feet.

They said they're shocked that it was declined and are appealing the decision for us. Hoping that it gets approve it on appeal!

Anybody know how long appeals would take?

Why have you gone to only BOI and PTSB? They'd be low down on my list of mortgage providers.

No idea how long appeals take, but there must be something they dont like about yer application for both to decline ye.

SarahMollie

I would get a broker, that way you can apply more places than just BOI and PTSB.

I imagine that there area few factors against you.

1. You're back in Ireland a relatively short time.
2. Your combined income is still pretty low. This means that any stresstesting is going to be particularly tough on you, as you won't ever really have much disposable income should something unexpected happen.

Also, surely you can reapply to BOI now as well, since your first application was before you'd passed probationary period in your jobs, which they were never going to accept IMO.

Alkers

SarahMollie wrote: »

I would get a broker, that way you can apply more places than just BOI and PTSB.

You can go to them all except for Haven without a broker in any case. Just get a sample salary cert and take the logos off it and get your work to sign it, then you can use it with all the banks. After that it's just submitted the documents and filling in the application forms which you have to do with a broker anyway.

angeldelight

Just got our approval today - got more than 3.5x salary offered from Haven. We went through a broker, didn't ask for an exception or particularly want one. Anybody got an opinion on Haven?

audi12

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

14k deposit?
I wish we could have a deposit like that.
Buying in south Dublin is a huge outlay.

It's taken us 3 years or so but we have finally saved €86k deposit for our house which we've gone sale agreed on for €430k.

Signing contracts This evening and hope to be in the house by Feb 13th all going well.

430 for probably a three bed semi chained to that for life on what planet does that make sense just to live in dublin ??

_Kaiser_

audi12 wrote: »

430 for probably a three bed semi chained to that for life on what planet does that make sense just to live in dublin ??

To be fair, like it or not Dublin is the centre of the country economically and depending what field the poster works in (IT for example) they may have better employment prospects there. You also have better infrastructure, better transport etc

Plus there's family ties, friends, kids schools etc - all of these are important to varying degrees.

I agree with the point you're making (property prices are back to ridiculous levels again but without all the "free" credit of last time - instead it's constricted supply), but unless you want a significant daily commute (which comes with other costs and hassles too - speaking from experience on that one ) then the reality is that Dublin is always going to be in greater demand and thus higher priced.

audi12

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

To be fair, like it or not Dublin is the centre of the country economically and depending what field the poster works in (IT for example) they may have better employment prospects there. You also have better infrastructure, better transport etc

Plus there's family ties, friends, kids schools etc - all of these are important to varying degrees.

I agree with the point you're making (property prices are back to ridiculous levels again but without all the "free" credit of last time - instead it's constricted supply), but unless you want a significant daily commute (which comes with other costs and hassles too - speaking from experience on that one ) then the reality is that Dublin is always going to be in greater demand and thus higher priced.

Id live up a mountain rather than be chained in to a depressing mortgage like that.

Sleepy

Went sale agreed this afternoon!

angeldelight

That's great Sleepy - quick work!

turniphead

audi12 wrote: »

430 for probably a three bed semi chained to that for life on what planet does that make sense just to live in dublin ??

Such an unhelpful speculative comment when you know nothing about the poster's circumstance.

We all know Dublin is ridiculously expensive in comparison to other parts of the country but for some people their only option is to buy in Dublin.

Stheno

Sleepy wrote: »

Went sale agreed this afternoon!

Congratulations!

Inspector Coptoor

audi12 wrote: »

Id live up a mountain rather than be chained in to a depressing mortgage like that.

And that's your prerogative.

We can well afford the mortgage repayments & they are only slightly higher than a lot of rents on 2 bed apts in Dublin.

My job is in Dublin, as is my wife's & she HAS to live close to her place of work as she does call so your mountain is not an option for us.

Tyson Lannister

We bought a small house a few years ago and are paying the mortgage since.

Hoping to sell in a few years time and should have 60k ish left over. We are hoping to buy a bigger house for room for the kids.
Question is, we will have the deposit for a new mortgage but will the bank take our paying the mortgage over the years the same as proof of saving a deposit?

Q&A

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

We bought a small house a few years ago and are paying the mortgage since.

Hoping to sell in a few years time and should have 60k ish left over. We are hoping to buy a bigger house for room for the kids.
Question is, we will have the deposit for a new mortgage but will the bank take our paying the mortgage over the years the same as proof of saving a deposit?

The bank will see mortgage repayments as proof of ability to repay. It won't count directly towards your deposit requirements. Put simply it to be real money that goes towards the deposit not some notional amount as some politicians have been calling for.

As a second and subsequent purchaser you are required to provide a deposit of at least 20% of the purchase price. With a deposit of €60k this would suggest an upper price limit of €300k.

Of course you may be able to get an exception to the deposit requirement but that is at the banks discretion and they have a limit amount they can give out. I think this is where your experience of mortgage repayments may count towards you.

SB_Part2

The house I wanted to buy just doubled in price. Not sure what land the guy who was valuing it is living on.

Black_Knight

SB_Part2 wrote: »

The house I wanted to buy just doubled in price. Not sure what land the guy who was valuing it is living on.

Its only an asking price, and only worth that you value it at.

Peterx

audi12 wrote: »

430 for probably a three bed semi chained to that for life on what planet does that make sense just to live in dublin ??

That comes down to philosophy really. It seems you are fixated on the day one purchase cost of a home. I would be more interested in living close to where I need to be every day for the next 20 years.

I think if you crunch the numbers over the 20/25 years of a mortgage you might find you save money buying close to where you need to be every day.

Buying a cheaper house (or bigger house for the same money) in a commuter town or up a mountain chains you to commuting unless you are either financially independent or can work from home.

You save once, buying the house, and then you pay every single day after that in time and money and health and fitness.

I think this is extremely relevant to the whole idea of saving for a mortgage in 2016 or any other time. It's not a one day purchase. It's probably the biggest financial decision of your life which will have huge ramifications to your lifestyle.

SB_Part2

Black_Knight wrote: »

Its only an asking price, and only worth that you value it at.

True. I wasn't sure whether to bother offering what I was originally going to offer or not but there's no harm in trying.

Bradz213

Peterx wrote: »

That comes down to philosophy really. It seems you are fixated on the day one purchase cost of a home. I would be more interested in living close to where I need to be every day for the next 20 years.

I think if you crunch the numbers over the 20/25 years of a mortgage you might find you save money buying close to where you need to be every day.

Buying a cheaper house (or bigger house for the same money) in a commuter town or up a mountain chains you to commuting unless you are either financially independent or can work from home.

You save once, buying the house, and then you pay every single day after that in time and money and health and fitness.

I think this is extremely relevant to the whole idea of saving for a mortgage in 2016 or any other time. It's not a one day purchase. It's probably the biggest financial decision of your life which will have huge ramifications to your lifestyle.

Completely agree with you. I'm in a situation where I'm priced out of desirable (to me) areas of Dublin. I'm renting and moved a year and a half ago to a commuter town but love it there now so looking to buy around that area.

Walter H Price

Thinking of giving up for this year , just over €25,000 saved but were both looking at changing jobs in the next few months . House prices are still a killer in Dublin, figure the extra €15,500 will save till Christmas should set us up nicely for a move this time next year.

Jen44

good idea

Santy2015

Our application was declined last week becauce of a small car loan 3k. a mortgage of 135k savings just over 18k I was shocked. Our gross is just under 45k. We've Appealed the decision and are waiting now. Bank advisor wanted to put in a condition that we'd clear the loan before we draw down any mortgage in the appeal. Anyone know how long they take to appeal? We wanted to clear the loan immediately after he told us but the bank manager said not to. Why?

SarahMollie

Did you not ask the bank manager why he said not to clear the car loan? How long would it take to clear the loan at the current rate of payments.

Credit Card Debt and Car Loans are notoriously bad things to have on your mortgage application.

Bradz213

I would have thought the 3k loan would have just allowed you to borrow 3k less than your maximum.

SarahMollie

SarahMollie wrote: »

Did you not ask the bank manager why he said not to clear the car loan? How long would it take to clear the loan at the current rate of payments.

Credit Card Debt and Car Loans are notoriously bad things to have on your mortgage application.

If banks are refusing people because of car loans etc I do find it a way over the top.

Firstly if you have car loan/finance and you are easily repaying it and still saving/demonstrating your capacity to easily repay the mortgage I don't see why its an issue, of course it should be taken into account but if after this you can still easily repay I don't see why it should result in refusals.

The thing is the minute you get your mortgage you can get loans to your hearts content which sort of makes such strictness before hand a bit silly.

I've seen a perfect example first hand with a friend of mine. Bought a house last year and he was hardly settled in the house when he bought a brand new car (on finance) and nothing to stop him.

SarahMollie

Oh yeah true, there is nothing to stop you taking out loans to your hearts content once you've got your mortgage. And I'm not saying the banks are right, but when I was applying, I knew that I would be much better off not having any loans at that point in time.

angeldelight

We could really do with a new car but are holding out until we get the house - firstly so we can keep saving more towards our deposit but also so it doesn't affect our mortgage potential. In saying that we have 3k credit card debt and still got more than 3.5x income approved

Tasden

Excuse my ignorance but am i right in thinking that the car loan would only affect your mortgage if you are still in the process of paying it back when putting in your application? Like it won't have a negative impact if you took out a car loan and paid it back with no issues and then the month it was paid off in full you then apply for mortgage? Assuming everything else is in order and ok.

SarahMollie

Tasden wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but am i right in thinking that the car loan would only affect your mortgage if you are still in the process of paying it back when putting in your application? Like it won't have a negative impact if you took out a car loan and paid it back with no issues and then the month it was paid off in full you then apply for mortgage? Assuming everything else is in order and ok.

Yes, thats my understanding (although I've never had one). I don't think past loans are a bad thing once they're fully paid off and there were no issues with the repayments that could impact your credit score.