Motorcycle Safety

Ayrtonf7

Well guys and girls! I am hoping yous could all help me out a little (or a lot). Basically I am coming into my final year of Product Design at NUIM. For those of you that dont know Product Design does what it says on the tin, we find problems/difficulty's people are having and try to create solutions which are normally either incremental (just a small change to a current product) or radical (design something completely new and unseen). Its a long process and involves a lot of interviews, focus groups, user research, ideation, developing, prototyping and eventually presenting to my year.

Anyways part of my final year requires me to do an individual project which will take up the majority of my time from now until May. Having been around motorcycles for the majority of my life and having a strong passion for them I thought Motorcycle safety would be a good area to try and improve upon.

I'm not gonna lie at first I was a little bit hesitant to go anywhere near it. Company's like Dainese, Alpinestar and RST spend millions on R&D each year to bring us the latest protective clothing. If you think about all of the standards that these items have to meet and the testing that goes along with it as well .... It can all seem a bit daunting! Then I kinda started to think about it and Bike Safety encompasses a lot more than the equipment we wear on our backs.

Imagine how dangerous it would be if nobody ever adjusted their chain, or some people forgot to top up their oil or you never lubed your cables and one snapped doing whatever speed down the motorway. What if nobody on the road ever looked for motorcyclists? Peoples awareness of us plays a huge part in our safety. (I know some people still struggle but the majority are getting better). I know for me personally I can zone out a little whilst on the bike especially on roads I commute on everyday. Maybe there is a solution for that?

What I need from you guys at the moment is to find out what areas of motorcycle safety you feel are really good and what areas are not so good. So maybe you find visibility on foggy/wet winter mornings to be particularly dangerous and would like to see something there? Or maybe its a big pile of cow ****** sitting on the middle of the road as you come around your favourite bend on a summer spin?

Id really appreciate any input/opinions yous would be able to give me and I'm really looking forward to reading some of your responses. If you have any questions for me about the project please dont hesitate to ask!

Del2005

Simple solution to a lot of road safety issues would be eye tests when renewing a licence, it's shocking that you can do an eye test in your late teens early 20s and not again till your 70 yet are still allowed on the road. Even 10 years is too long without an eye test, but thats the only chance to force people.

Sorry it's got nothing for you to design.

gerrowadat

People will stop doing anything repetitive. Something that could automate away checks like chain tension or tyres would be #1 for me. The scottoiler effectively looks after lubing on chained bikes so you can essentially forget about it. Having the same for other stuff in the POWDER checklist would be great.

carolmary

For me, being visible as it gets darker is a biggie. A lot of people cover up their high-vis vest with a backpack.

Don't know how feasible this is, but how about a backpack with its own rechargeable power supply, that has lights on it, and perhaps extra lights that are able to be clipped into the bike's brake and indicator lighting so it shines in unison with them?

franer1970

One thing that worries me is coming off a bike at night and then being run over while lying in the road by another vehicle.
So how about something that improves visibility of rider (and bike) immediately after an accident?

Paulw

From my own observation - bikes tend to have good lights on front (main headlight, sometimes extra spots), but only have a single rear light. I always ride with my lights on, but I have seen bikers ride with no lights on, and with the dark mornings and dark evenings, they can be very hard to see from behind.

Visibility is a big thing. The colour/design of clothing, helmets, hi-vis vests, etc can add or subtract from your visibility on the road.

Biking has come a good way for safety - ABS, auto-inflating safety vests, boots, gloves, etc.

Even with pinlock, I still find my helmet can get stuffy and almost fog up inside. I can still see out, but not as clear as it should be. And then with flies and bugs, a long ride can greatly decrease visibility through the visor with dead bugs. And then in the rain - how do you keep your visor clear?

I doubt there is one thing, but it may be a combination of a number of small items that improve overall safety. Of course, the best thing is training and education - for riders and also drivers.

Wossack

they're developing auto braking for cars - Im thinking something similar for bikes? To try and help combat SMIDSY's.. maybe involving stinger missiles? or explosive reactive armor.. hmm

Triangle

Possibly something with the helmet - HUD safety features - lane changing alert or something similar? highlight small obstacles moving on a trajectory to the bike..... just some spur of the moment thoughts.

listermint

Why Safety ?

Why not some properly designed rear side pannier bags that dont require a mounting system and are water proof.

There are various ones out there but they are either crazy money, look ****e. or they hang down off the bike and on some models touch the exhaust.

Im thinking like a reverse knuckle system that holds the bags out away from the bodywork. But can roll up so they are squashable.

Wonda-Boy

Gonna sound cheesy but how about a helmet that has some way of dispersing water off the visor in rain, would be a god send if was good.

Mesrine65

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Gonna sound cheesy but how about a helmet that has some way of dispersing water off the visor in rain, would be a god send if was good.

:pac::pac::pac:

frozenfrozen

Make an indicator switch that clicks over and stays clicked until it's turned off so I can tell when the indicator is on by feel. Make it easy to swap in instead of the factory switchgear and you'd be golden

Richard tea

A camera is a must for me. It would be great to have a camera fitted under the shell of the helmet. It would improve aerodynamics and safety from impacts. I wonder if a heated element in the visor is an option like a car windscreen.

Ayrtonf7

Del2005 wrote: »

Simple solution to a lot of road safety issues would be eye tests when renewing a licence, it's shocking that you can do an eye test in your late teens early 20s and not again till your 70 yet are still allowed on the road. Even 10 years is too long without an eye test, but thats the only chance to force people.

Sorry it's got nothing for you to design.

I agree with you 100% on this. I have a few friends who have their car licences a few years and have only recently started wearing prescription glasses. It absolutely baffles me how they can get into a car and drive without your eyes being in tip-top. Wouldnt dream of doing it on a bike, even if glasses can get uncomfortable with the helmet!

And its cool! I am still a very long way away from designing anything at the moment. Its all research for the next few months. But now I know that the inconsistency of who should and shouldnt wear glasses is a problem!

gerrowadat wrote: »

People will stop doing anything repetitive. Something that could automate away checks like chain tension or tyres would be #1 for me. The scottoiler effectively looks after lubing on chained bikes so you can essentially forget about it. Having the same for other stuff in the POWDER checklist would be great.

Okay so POWDER checks can be "forgotten". Maybe just looking at pre-ride maintenance would be good. Its definitely an area I feel a lot of people dont do (guilty myself).

carolmary wrote: »

For me, being visible as it gets darker is a biggie. A lot of people cover up their high-vis vest with a backpack.

Don't know how feasible this is, but how about a backpack with its own rechargeable power supply, that has lights on it, and perhaps extra lights that are able to be clipped into the bike's brake and indicator lighting so it shines in unison with them?

Actually guilty of this one myself but I have started using the RSA backpack hi-vis cover. Helps quite a bit but can be a pain to take on and off and what happens if your back comes lose in a crash?

Anything is possible if the technology is there I've actually seen a few textiles coats with a built in brake light and indicator

franer1970 wrote: »

One thing that worries me is coming off a bike at night and then being run over while lying in the road by another vehicle.
So how about something that improves visibility of rider (and bike) immediately after an accident?

Something I've thought about before as well. A lot of people use the excuse "my bike has lights, which do I need a hi-vis?" but again, what happens if you come off at night on an dark road with no street lights?

Ayrtonf7

Paulw wrote: »

From my own observation - bikes tend to have good lights on front (main headlight, sometimes extra spots), but only have a single rear light. I always ride with my lights on, but I have seen bikers ride with no lights on, and with the dark mornings and dark evenings, they can be very hard to see from behind.

Visibility is a big thing. The colour/design of clothing, helmets, hi-vis vests, etc can add or subtract from your visibility on the road.

Biking has come a good way for safety - ABS, auto-inflating safety vests, boots, gloves, etc.

Even with pinlock, I still find my helmet can get stuffy and almost fog up inside. I can still see out, but not as clear as it should be. And then with flies and bugs, a long ride can greatly decrease visibility through the visor with dead bugs. And then in the rain - how do you keep your visor clear?

I doubt there is one thing, but it may be a combination of a number of small items that improve overall safety. Of course, the best thing is training and education - for riders and also drivers.

Visibility definitely seems to be cropping up quite a bit, whether its how visible we are to other road users, or how much we can see the road. I agree the first few months of a pinlocks life are brilliant. I found that it reached a certain point though and performance just started to drop. I found it really awkward cleaning the internal visor while the pinlock was still in place as well.

Wossack wrote: »

they're developing auto braking for cars - Im thinking something similar for bikes? To try and help combat SMIDSY's.. maybe involving stinger missiles? or explosive reactive armor.. hmm

Auto braking for cars ? Seems like it might take a lot of fun out of biking! but then again safety first ...

The missiles do sound like a possiblity though. Might cause some serious damage though if you ever had a bit of road rage haha.

Ayrtonf7

Apologies for the wall of text!

Really good info I am getting here guys thank you so much! I am still a long way off designing anything though. This semester is mostly for user-research and trying to find you problem (which I can see there are quite a few unanswered by what yous are telling me).

I really like the idea of helmet visibility as its something that can cause me a lot of problems. This morning for example was a nightmare. I ran into dense and heavy fog for about 60% of my journey. For me it means my gloves get wet and cold from wiping the external of my visor, eventually the internal part of the visor starts to mist up with fog and before long I'm forced to crack the whole thing open so I actually stand a chance of seeing anything in front of me. This means a really cold face and some really wet glasses which I cant wipe! Nightmare.

Keep em coming guys, a lot of really useful information in this thread!

I will probably be looking for people to do some interviews over the next week or two if anybody would be interested in helping me out? Would love to try and get two birds with one stone and maybe head out on a Sunday spin and have a chat during one of the stops with the group as well!

Ayrtonf7

Another quick questions for yous! I've noticed the majority of people talk about safety gear and hi-vis's when I mentioned motorcycle safety. I know that without the gear any accident is a bad accident. But what about preventing accidents ? Do you think it relies on training/education, maintenance or just pure luck ? Maybe something else that I'm missing ...

4068ac1elhodqr

Most solutions already exist, it's just the application of these solutions that's missing.

1). Nano-glasspaint is readily available for visors, basically this means 100% perma-water-repellency. Add airholes to allow interior evaporation. see NP Liquid Glass ie
2). Black/dark jackets and black bikes are popular, but offer very little visibility particularly at side elevation views.
Yellow (inc patterns) are statistically the best choice for both bike/clothes.
3) D3o (now D30) materials are widely available yet still only used sparingly by manufacturers.
4) Biker Co2 airbags exist, but are expensive and generally only single use deployment for the cannister.

Thus, product wise, a simple multi-pocket full suit of cheaply/easily replaceable 200ml air pockets (same as some packing supplies) would be a great commercial seller, combine with a (yellow) gortex top layer. pva-foam, 5% elastine in-between & d3o for acute impact points.

Also, one zone that's overlooked and unprotected is the neck, if this gets damaged, it's game over. A flexible Titanium, air-inflatable, foam packed brace could also save countless lives if it could be flex-attached to helmet & jacket.

Bad ideas: HUD displays (unnecessary near-sight distraction with perhaps 2000ms+ refocusing delay).

antiskeptic

Ayrtonf7 wrote: »

Well guys and girls! I am hoping yous could all help me out a little (or a lot). Basically I am coming into my final year of Product Design at NUIM. For those of you that dont know Product Design does what it says on the tin, we find problems/difficulty's people are having and try to create solutions which are normally either incremental (just a small change to a current product) or radical (design something completely new and unseen). Its a long process and involves a lot of interviews, focus groups, user research, ideation, developing, prototyping and eventually presenting to my year.

Anyways part of my final year requires me to do an individual project which will take up the majority of my time from now until May. Having been around motorcycles for the majority of my life and having a strong passion for them I thought Motorcycle safety would be a good area to try and improve upon.

I'm not gonna lie at first I was a little bit hesitant to go anywhere near it. Company's like Dainese, Alpinestar and RST spend millions on R&D each year to bring us the latest protective clothing. If you think about all of the standards that these items have to meet and the testing that goes along with it as well .... It can all seem a bit daunting! Then I kinda started to think about it and Bike Safety encompasses a lot more than the equipment we wear on our backs.

Imagine how dangerous it would be if nobody ever adjusted their chain, or some people forgot to top up their oil or you never lubed your cables and one snapped doing whatever speed down the motorway. What if nobody on the road ever looked for motorcyclists? Peoples awareness of us plays a huge part in our safety. (I know some people still struggle but the majority are getting better). I know for me personally I can zone out a little whilst on the bike especially on roads I commute on everyday. Maybe there is a solution for that?

What I need from you guys at the moment is to find out what areas of motorcycle safety you feel are really good and what areas are not so good. So maybe you find visibility on foggy/wet winter mornings to be particularly dangerous and would like to see something there? Or maybe its a big pile of cow ****** sitting on the middle of the road as you come around your favourite bend on a summer spin?

Id really appreciate any input/opinions yous would be able to give me and I'm really looking forward to reading some of your responses. If you have any questions for me about the project please dont hesitate to ask!

Improving the front on visibility of bikes would, in my own experience, not only increase safety but would improve ride enjoyment safer in the knowledge that folk can actually see you.

The simplest object I can think of which would dramatically improve things is a cyclists-type flashing LED light fitted to the front of the bike. Perhaps something speed related (picking up from the bikes speedo) which would slow the rate of flash at higher speeds and increase it a faster rate in close traffic situations. You could also have brighter setting for the daytime shifting to less dazzling setting at night (with a optical sensor similar to the type of thing which turns on streetlights as dusk).

The problem with a bike, even with two headlights is the lack of stereo-effect enjoyed by cars and which makes it easier for another driver to place the car spatially, calculate direction of approach, speed, etc. A flashing LED would pick a bike out from a crowd of rush hour headlights on dark drizzly evenings.

Alkers

Few items I can think of:
Rear fog lights?
A neck warmer that isn't too bulky that it interferes with the helmet strap.
Something for drying gloves?
Maybe some way of attaching your (non bike) keys safely to your bike so they're not in your pocket if you have an off?
Also I saw a guy on youtube who had made blind spot warnings for his bike, basically a led illuminated on the side if there was a vehicle in the blindspot on that side.

traco

Heres your jacket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZjVI47p160&feature=youtu.be

Muahahaha

as said jackets with inbuilt airbags do exist but they're very expensive at the moment. Making them more affordable might be something to look at.

Another idea could be a brake light integrated either into a helmet or a jacket.

Also as said when a rider does crash they are in immediate danger of getting knocked over by on coming cars. I'm not sure how this problem could be even partially solved. Perhaps a device with a gyroscope/accelerometer inside it could detect if a rider has been thrown from their bike. After that I don't know what should happen to alert drivers that there is a motorbiker lying on the road. Maybe some sort of coloured smoke flare could go off but I'm not sure how that would be integrated into a jacket.

4068ac1elhodqr

Muahahaha wrote: »

as said jackets with inbuilt airbags do exist but they're very expensive at the moment. Making them more affordable might be something to look at.

A suit with about x40 pockets would be the cheapest and most effective to prevent broken limbs and injury at moderate/low speeds.

The sorts of thing your shopping from amazon has in delivery boxes, negligible cost factoring. Chances are a quick roll and bounce may mean little/no injuries. A bouncy castle effect.


Less than $10 to fully refill and maintain air pocket sections if ever needed.

At higher speeds you'd still need the d3o wonder material on elbows/knees which are fine with very high impact pressures (psi). Less effective but cheaper Pva-foam elsewhere also for more moderate speeds.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Another idea could be a brake light integrated either into a helmet or a jacket.

Also as said when a rider does crash they are in immediate danger of getting knocked over by on coming cars. I'm not sure how this problem could be even partially solved. Perhaps a device with a gyroscope/accelerometer inside it could detect if a rider has been thrown from their bike. After that I don't know what should happen to alert drivers that there is a motorbiker lying on the road. Maybe some sort of coloured smoke flare could go off but I'm not sure how that would be integrated into a jacket.

A simple Bluetooth switch could detect 5/10m unconfirmed separation of bike and helmet to set off twin orange strobe lights. This type of thing already exists for mobile phones paired with keyrings. Smoke/flares would only be an additional road hazard.

markad1

BMW Motorrad ABS Pro (in production)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_WPhxG4_8

BMW motorrad side view assist (in production)
https://youtu.be/HVkjyyGsiuc

BMW connected ride (concept)
https://youtu.be/TTmrz44e06Q

Collision warning (concept)
https://youtu.be/QZFkdmCLvhY

Paulw

Now here is something very useful.

I may see if I can get one when in the US.

BaronVon

Paulw wrote: »

Now here is something very useful.

I may see if I can get one when in the US.

He's clearly very safety concious driving at night with his dark visor!

Del2005

Muahahaha wrote: »

Also as said when a rider does crash they are in immediate danger of getting knocked over by on coming cars. I'm not sure how this problem could be even partially solved. Perhaps a device with a gyroscope/accelerometer inside it could detect if a rider has been thrown from their bike. After that I don't know what should happen to alert drivers that there is a motorbiker lying on the road. Maybe some sort of coloured smoke flare could go off but I'm not sure how that would be integrated into a jacket.

BA sets already have a man down alarm it wouldn't be too difficult to modify if for more strobes, still doesn't help if they can't see bright lights moving they aren't going to notice them on the side of the road. This might be a better option to modify, since it's monitored.

Wossack

Case Cold Repayment wrote: »

A suit with about x40 pockets would be the cheapest and most effective to prevent broken limbs and injury at moderate/low speeds.

The sorts of thing your shopping from amazon has in delivery boxes, negligible cost factoring. Chances are a quick roll and bounce may mean little/no injuries. A bouncy castle effect.


Less than $10 to fully refill and maintain air pocket sections if ever needed.

At higher speeds you'd still need the d3o wonder material on elbows/knees which are fine with very high impact pressures (psi). Less effective but cheaper Pva-foam elsewhere also for more moderate speeds.




A simple Bluetooth switch could detect 5/10m unconfirmed separation of bike and helmet to set off twin orange strobe lights. This type of thing already exists for mobile phones paired with keyrings. Smoke/flares would only be an additional road hazard.

curiousb

Nothing to so with safety but a bit of fun... What about something to calculate your lean angle as you are cranked over in a turn? Good fun on a trackday?

Too simple in itself I know, but maybe something along those lines which calculates cornering forces?

carsQhere

Much of the "safety" aspect is external to us as riders. Just to comment on some of the points made earlier...

The visibility/conspicuity thing is a bit of a double edged sword. Making yourself visible is good practice but useless against drivers who fail to look properly. I still use high-viz though.

The EU has already mandated e-call for cars (see here) and will presumably do the same for bikes once they figure out how to make the module work on a bike. ABS on all new bikes over 125cc is mandatory from next year, and CBS or ABS on bikes under 125cc.

ITS (Intelligent Transport Systems) will see road side beacons sending signals to your car/bike to warn of traffic or ice ahead (or kill your throttle if you believe the more paranoid interpretations).

For me personally the one issue I would like to see solved is lighting. Motorcycle headlights are, in most cases, useless. I generally fit HiD or uprated bulbs/lamps but that's not ideal. Second to that it's the visor. Pinlock works OK but seriously hydrophobic surfaces are the way forward.

landmarkjohn

franer1970 wrote: »

One thing that worries me is coming off a bike at night and then being run over while lying in the road by another vehicle.
So how about something that improves visibility of rider (and bike) immediately after an accident?

Good idea.... I came off the other week, 2nd in a group of 5 on a very very narrow road (grass in the middle of the road type narrow) and I was lying there with my bike pinning me down frantically waving my arms so the next guy coming round the bend wouldn't ride over me.:eek: