Passport card finally on the way.

Chuchote

Impetus wrote: »

And of course Ireland is not a full EU member yet - because it refuses to join Schengen. Gov.ie use the Northern Ireland excuse. Everyone entering or leaving NI on a flight or ferry has to show ID for trips to GB. The island of Ireland could join Schengen.

As I understand it, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) had to make a decision about whether to join Schengen and have expensive militarised border controls with Britain and Northern Ireland, or - since our à-la-carte-EU neighbours in Britain were too precious to join it - to stay out and have free travel with Britain and relatively free travel with the EU.

An all-Ireland Schengen membership… can't see that happening while Northern Ireland is still part of Britain, though the DFA may look at Schengen again when Brexit happens, since the political situation will have radically changed and Ireland will be targeting Europe more than Britain for exports.

SemenInMyEyes

I dunno. I reckon it could work in a country like Serbia which recognises all other Eu member ID cards

Impetus

SemenInMyEyes wrote: »

Just wondering what you guys think of this situation. Currently I am in Hungary on the passport card.

Thinking of taking the train to Belgrade for a two or three days. Now Serbia is technically outside of the EU and Schengen zone.

However it says on Wikitravel that EU citizens can use either a passport or national ID card. Now the passport card is somewhere in between. Would anyone chance getting on the train and seeing if I will be allowed in. I didn't bring actual passport. Forgot it but this wasn't originally planned.

The passport card is a passport - it says so on the second line. It is RFID equipped and has machine readable data on the reverse side. The only reason why it might be a problem is in police states (eg USA) where a visa or other document has to be stapled or rubber stamped to the document.

The card presents itself to an ID document reader in the same way as a paper passport, allowing a border "agent" to verify your identity and check your ID against whatever wanted people list the country has. Also Serbia is an applicant to join the EU. I don't think it would give Serbia any bonus points if they refused to accept EU ID cards, by whatever name they are called. It would cause chaos at border crossings, as most people don't bring (or even have) passports.

The main difference between an Irish passport card and a normal ID card is that it does not have the card holder's address on the reverse side. It also does not have a chip and PIN to electronically sign contracts online, or wherever. And the absence of the address forces people to supply "utility bills" to prove their address instead. Which is nuts given that few utilities send out bills in the post anymore.

redcup342

Impetus wrote: »

The passport card is a passport - it says so on the second line. It is RFID equipped and has machine readable data on the reverse side. The only reason why it might be a problem is in police states (eg USA) where a visa or other document has to be stapled or rubber stamped to the document.

The card presents itself to an ID document reader in the same way as a paper passport, allowing a border "agent" to verify your identity and check your ID against whatever wanted people list the country has. Also Serbia is an applicant to join the EU. I don't think it would give Serbia any bonus points if they refused to accept EU ID cards, by whatever name they are called. It would cause chaos at border crossings, as most people don't bring (or even have) passports.

The main difference between an Irish passport card and a normal ID card is that it does not have the card holder's address on the reverse side. It also does not have a chip and PIN to electronically sign contracts online, or wherever. And the absence of the address forces people to supply "utility bills" to prove their address instead. Which is nuts given that few utilities send out bills in the post anymore.

Dutch ID Card doesn't have the persons address on it either, just the issuing authority. Nor does it have a chip/pin (newer cards have NFC)

You don't sign documents with your ID Card either, you use your Digital Identity (DigiD) this isn't linked to your Identity documents, it's linked to your registration with the Local City Hall.

Why would they need your address ? This is nothing to do with your Nationality.

Impetus

redcup342 wrote: »

Dutch ID Card doesn't have the persons address on it either, just the issuing authority. Nor does it have a chip/pin (newer cards have NFC)

You don't sign documents with your ID Card either, you use your Digital Identity (DigiD) this isn't linked to your Identity documents, it's linked to your registration with the Local City Hall.

Why would they need your address ? This is nothing to do with your Nationality.

The border control system does not need your address. But if you are opening a bank account or arranging for something to be delivered in say a retail store, it is just as easy to give them the ID card from your wallet. It has a standard format, so they don't have to hunt for the data. They spell your name and address properly.

An id card issued by CZ (which has the address on the back):

back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ID-card_CZ_2012_b_chip.jpg
front: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/ID-card_CZ_2012.jpg

Only some countries have got around to issuing the EU standard ID card, which usually has an RFID chip and a payment card type chip and PIN.

You don't have to be a citizen of a country to get an ID card - most civil law countries require everybody to be in possession of ID at all times. My ID card has a contact chip with two PINs - one for authentication (proving you are the person identified by the card) and one for signing documents electronically. Many countries still have old style cards, some made from cardboard and hand written. Not so long ago, the Irish passport was handwritten.

Estonia has an e-identity programme - anybody can join it online. You can use the ID to incorporate a company, open a bank account etc without even visiting Estonia. https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/about/

redcup342

Impetus wrote: »

The border control system does not need your address. But if you are opening a bank account or arranging for something to be delivered in say a retail store, it is just as easy to give them the ID card from your wallet. It has a standard format, so they don't have to hunt for the data. They spell your name and address properly.

An id card issued by CZ (which has the address on the back):

back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ID-card_CZ_2012_b_chip.jpg
front: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/ID-card_CZ_2012.jpg

Only some countries have got around to issuing the EU standard ID card, which usually has an RFID chip and a payment card type chip and PIN.

You don't have to be a citizen of a country to get an ID card - most civil law countries require everybody to be in possession of ID at all times. My ID card has a contact chip with two PINs - one for authentication (proving you are the person identified by the card) and one for signing documents electronically. Many countries still have old style cards, some made from cardboard and hand written. Not so long ago, the Irish passport was handwritten.

Estonia has an e-identity programme - anybody can join it online. You can use the ID to incorporate a company, open a bank account etc without even visiting Estonia. https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/about/

Only Dutch Citizens can get a National Identity Card (same goes for Germany as well) and yes its compulsory to carry ID here.

https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/contents/compulsory-identification

There's a Residents and a Non-Resident database.

Your Digital Identity is something separate and not linked to your identity card, you can use this with most public services.

https://www.digid.nl/en/

For my address though all I have to remember is 4 numbers and 2 letters in NL or 5 numbers in Germany and they pick my address from a list, so I don't really see the benefit. Actually I'd see it as more of a risk since someone has my home address and my wallet now :P

adrian522

It's pretty nuts that 3 years later you still can't check in online with Aer Lingus using a passport card, you need to either check in at the airport or use the full passport.

the perfect ten

Also annoying is the fact that the card cannot be read by the automatic machines at Dublin Airport!

holystungun9

Yep, so annoying. I flew here from Spain with just my card and then on the return flight out of Dublin I had problems. Went to the machines and found the machine didn't take the card. Went to the counter and while they didn't explain why the lady on the desk needed repeated attempts to check me in, I'm pretty sure it's because she had to update my info with the card number which is different from the passport.

I had my paper passport number registered with Aer Lingus and after that flight I had to change it back and now I carry my passport for Aer Lingus flights. It bothered me for a while cause I was used to flying around Europe with just the card.

redcup342

the perfect ten wrote: »

Also annoying is the fact that the card cannot be read by the automatic machines at Dublin Airport!

It's a bit ridiculous that we cannot use the Cards in our own country. :mad:

I got screamed at last time by the a$$clowns working there.

What's the point in the card if it actually slows you down clearing immigration

biko

You know it's a publicly sponsored news agency when 113 words are used to relay the news on the cards, only to use 154 words in the same article for unrelated immigration reform bill news.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

redcup342 wrote: »

It's a bit ridiculous that we cannot use the Cards in our own country. :mad:

I got screamed at last time by the a$$clowns working there.

What's the point in the card if it actually slows you down clearing immigration

They screamed at you for having a passport card? I highly doubt it... :rolleyes:

holystungun9

biko wrote: »

You know it's a publicly sponsored news agency when 113 words are used to relay the news on the cards, only to use 154 words in the same article for unrelated immigration reform bill news.

I better get my passport cause i'm lost on this one.

redcup342

Brooklyn Small Detergent wrote: »

They screamed at you for having a passport card? I highly doubt it... :rolleyes:

Got screamed while in the e-gate, inserted card, was reading it for a few minutes. Some woman came over and said "CAN'T YOU READ, ARE YOU STUPID, IT SAYS PASSPORT ONLY"

Told her it said Passports and Irish passport cards on the sign up at the escalator, just got a "don't talk back at me"

Went to the Normal gate and the guy apologized for it, said the machines weren't setup yet to use the Irish Passport Cards.

Yes, screamed at. Didn't really bother with it as can't really be arsed with wasting my time on that type of person.

She also gave the same treatment to another guy that was going through the e-gate.

Arbie

redcup342 wrote: »

Got screamed while in the e-gate, inserted card, was reading it for a few minutes. Some woman came over and said "CAN'T YOU READ, ARE YOU STUPID, IT SAYS PASSPORT ONLY"

Told her it said Passports and Irish passport cards on the sign up at the escalator, just got a "don't talk back at me"

Went to the Normal gate and the guy apologized for it, said the machines weren't setup yet to use the Irish Passport Cards.

Yes, screamed at. Didn't really bother with it as can't really be arsed with wasting my time on that type of person.

She also gave the same treatment to another guy that was going through the e-gate.

I had a similar experience a while back. The signs all said Irish Passport Cards so I tried and no luck. The woman at the gate was very annoyed with me and told me off. I showed her the sign and she just ignored me. Most of the signs have now been changed or have the Passport Card bit blocked out.

Kenny1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108702037#Comment_108702037

So is the card passport number the same as the paper passport booklet number, or not ?

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981097#Comment_118981097

Nope. Different.

Spanish Eyes

Don't you all know that passport cards were only introduced here for proof of age for the young wans going on the lash? There were too many passports (proof of age) being lost or stolen in pubs and on the streets that the cards were brought in so people could still use their main passport for travel if card was missing.

I wouldn't trust them for travelling back to Ireland, so it's belt and braces obviously. Passport for re entry and card for every other EU country.

Maybe things have improved since I haven't travelled abroad in a while.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989141#Comment_118989141

card on its own is fine for travel within europe. card based ID cards are common there. I mostly used mine for travelling to england for work. I just kept it in my wallet so never had to worry about forgetting my passport.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989141#Comment_118989141

Where do people get this rubbish from?

Passport office don't care about young people drinking.

It was introduced to be in line with other EU countries and also it raises some revenue.

It works fine in all EU countries and also coming back to Ireland, no need for large passport for EU travel which is a great convenience.

My only gripe is that the normal passport is valid for 10 years but the passport card is only for 5.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992095#Comment_118992095

You don't have much of a tongue in cheek detector do you?

I agree with what you say, but the bogey is the uncertainty of being able to use it hassle free when returning to Ireland. Since I haven't been able to travel outside the country due to Covid and illness I didn't know the up to date situation, which I mentioned. Good to hear that one can use the card on return with no problems.

JayPS 2288

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108720123#Comment_108720123

Very disrespectful for her to address you in such a tone.

If it was a man speaking to a woman like that ……

Kenny1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989112#Comment_118989112

My passport booklet number begins with the letters PD and is followed by a 7-digits. Do the passport card numbers have this format, too ?

If I get the passport card, will its number be so different from the booklet's number, that the airline will be able to tell which type I am using to book the flight ...and even refuse to accept it for travel to countries where it is not accepted ?

Will we be able to get the fada over names on the card

Its a suprising oversight,it couldnt be got on normal passport,last time i applied

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020277#Comment_119020277

My passport card number starts with C, followed by 8 digits. So yeah, looks like they can tell which is the card and which is the book.

Incidentally, I applied for a passport renewal and a first issue card online last Saturday. New passport arrived yesterday, card arrived today. Given that it was a bank holiday weekend, that’s a pretty good turnaround time.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020291#Comment_119020291

Two of my daughters have fadas in their first names, and both of them have them in their passport book. They were issued in 2018, but I'm pretty sure their previous passports have them too.

They don't have cards, and my name doesn't have a fada, but the Nationality "ÉIREANNACH/IRISH" on my card has the fada, as does my place of birth ("BAILE ÁTHA CLIATH/DUBLIN").

firminjo

Are they worth it?(

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020328#Comment_119020328

Tbf its along time since i applied too,long since lapsed with covid too,its good to know it an option now

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020339#Comment_119020339

One issue you might face is that when you renew a passport, they put the name in EXACTLY the way it was on the previous one - unless you jump though the hoops of "changing" your name. So I don't think just putting the fadas on your application won't make them appear on your passport if you didn't previously have them on your passport.

For some reason I put my middle name in after my first name when I got my first passport 30 years ago. Every time I've renewed, I've left my middle name out (I don't ever use it in real life), but every time, it's reappeared on the renewed document.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020336#Comment_119020336

Only you can say whether €35 (for a card valid for 5 years) is worth it to you. Do you do a lot of traveling to Europe?

Personally, I hate the awkward size of the regular passport, and I can spare €35, so I didn't put much thought into a cost/benefit analysis and just ticked the box while I was renewing my regular one. I wouldn't have applied for one specially.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020349#Comment_119020349

In greater scheme,its not hugest issue,but if given choice,id prefer it on it too

Sure il call to passport office down in cork and see if it mad hassle,if i ever go about getting another

Gregor Samsa

I noticed that the signature strip on the card doesn't take ballpoint pen ink (at least the Bic pen I have that works perfectly on paper). Which is a bit annoying.

firminjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020377#Comment_119020377

Yeah i do quite a lot to be fair , yeah ill go for it!

Ubbquittious

Its a bit like the full size SIM card -> Mini SIM -> Micro SIM -> Nano SIM -> eSIM

Passport -> Passport card -> Micro passport card -> Passport on your smartphone -> "Mark of the beast 666" chip implant

Kenny1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108720123#Comment_108720123

Maybe she was just ignorant because not many people had these passport cards then and she was not familiar with them. I wonder how many people have these cards now?

If these card numbers are assigned consecutively perhaps we can figure out how many people have these cards already.

@ ANYONE: Is your card number in the range of tens of thousands or millions ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026581#Comment_119026581

8 digits so 10s of millions

Kenny1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026864#Comment_119026864

Yes there is room for that many cards, but how high had these numbers gotten by now ?

How many people actually have them ?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020291#Comment_119020291

Must be a while since you applied. I'm on my third passport book (so >20 years) and have had it on the other two as well

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027056#Comment_119027056

I assume the number isn't fully sequential, and didn't start at 00000001. Some of the digits could signify the issuing office, a checksum or other information.

I couldn't find an overall statistic on the numbers of cards issued to date. I looked though the press releases from the Department of Foreign Affairs that they release each December with the numbers of passports issued in the preceding year. Here's the numbers quoted specifically for passport cards each year (passport book numbers are much, much higher).

• 2015: 13,538
• 2016: 24,443
• 2017: 38,452
• 2018: No breakdown of card numbers
• 2019: No breakdown of card numbers
• 2020: 62,660
• 2021: No press release regarding passport issues at all

Bear in mind that the 2020 numbers will include renewals from 2015 (5 year validity on the card).

In other news, I never knew that Charlie Flanagan, the Minister who introduced the card in 2015, was so small.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020336#Comment_119020336

it depends on how much you travel in Europe. You are required to be able to do two things if asked by the authorities while travelling in the Schengen Area:

• Identify yourself using one of the valid forms of identity, in the case of Ireland that is a passport or identity card. Some officers are willing to accept other forms of ID, but it is at their discretion.
• Justify your presence in the Schengen Area. You can either demonstrate that you are on holidays via tickets, booking etc or just prove you are an EU citizen by showing your ID card or passport.

Now I now some people are in the habit of leaving their passport in the hotel in case they loose it, but if you are unable to meet the above two criteria then the authorities are entitled to detain you until such time as they are satisfied as to your identity. So officer may be will to bring you to the hotel to collect your passport but the are not obliged to do so. So it could have an impact on your holiday if you ended up spending a night in detention.

I live in Switzerland and often travel in the border areas and I have been checked on several occasions over the years. On one occasion while travelling with a Swiss colleague we had to get off a train and wait almost 3 hours for the police to confirm my colleague's identity as he had forgotten his ID card. He sat in the cells and I sat at a cafe across the street!

I think a credit card size ID card is well worth the money.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119028024#Comment_119028024

the numbers are definitely not sequential.

Kenny1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119028024#Comment_119028024

What is a "checksum" ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119029267#Comment_119029267

A digit added for error detection. Pretty much every number like bank card numbers, rsi numbers etc will have a check digit

Gregor Samsa

It’s a number in a string of numbers that validates the string. There would be a particular formula that you apply to some of the numbers in the string, and it should result in the checksum number. It’s a way of checking that a string of numbers is valid for it’s given purpose.

On a credit card number, the last digit is a checksum known as the “check digit”. You take the first 15 digits of the CC number and put it through a specific formula (called the “Luhn algorithm”), and it will give the last number as a result. This is used by online stores, for instance, to check that a credit card number is valid (the user hasn’t entered it incorrectly) before submitting to the payment processor.

I don’t know if a passport number specifically has a checksum or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did (or other validation features).