15 confirmed dead so far in Oregon college shooting

Gatling

Psyche testing should be mandatory for all gun holders but that's never going to be allowed happen

c_man

MarkAnthony wrote: »

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Toby, as always puts it best.

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that that interpretation wasn't correct at all though?

JP Liz V1

Guns were allowed on campus, madness


RIP

strelok

a bowl of kellogs coco pops, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


you see how the important part is still important, whatever inane bull**** is deemed 'necessary' to the security of a free state?

the right to bear arms is the important part of that sentence, not the militia. that's just explanatory

dreamers75

My name is URL wrote: »

This is the 19th school shooting this year alone in the US

I knew things were bad but holy shit like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

this site says its the 45th

http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

Clandestine

i knew someone from r9k would eventually break

The Black Oil

dreamers75 wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQQEg3CWIAEOMJY.png

Yep, that's pretty much what I saw. Hope you're safe, but we'd like your account of things all the same...

MarkAnthony

c_man wrote: »

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that that interpretation wasn't correct at all though?

Time to be revisited.

My name is URL

Police just confirmed that the killer is dead

The Black Oil

Guardian live updates. Shooter dead, confirmed by the police.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/oct/01/shooting-reported-at-oregon-community-college-live-updates

Gatling

My name is URL wrote: »

Police just confirmed that the killer is dead

So he /she wasn't detained

Berserker

Deleted User wrote: »

Weirdly, today is also the day that marijuana has been sold legally in shops for the first time.

Today is also the day that marijuana has been sold legally in shops for the first time, interestingly.

Overheal

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Guns were allowed on campus, madness
RIP

Where guns have not been allowed on campuses, the death tolls have been more or less similar. Gun policy at a site doesn't have the supreme bearing on whether an incident will occur, or the severity of the incident.

Paramite Pie

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Chicago actually has some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S. The problem there is guns illegally obtained by gang members. Banning guns won't stop people getting them illegally. I don't know what the cause of the problem is, it seems there is something fundamentally wrong with American society, but it's a little late for changing the law considering there are hundreds of millions of privately owned guns in the country.

Those guns were legal at some point -- there is no such thing as an illegal gun factory. The methods used by gangs to obtain these weapons need to be clamped down on -- but it always starts with a legal sale somewhere.

But these mass shootings are usually done with a legally held weapon -- hence the calls for stricter controls. These young shooters are not gang members and are unlikely to have access to illegal gun markets.

My name is URL

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Those guns were legal at some point -- there is no such thing as an illegal gun factory.

Well you say that but...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/

B.A._Baracus

Too many evil mad men in the world.

Xenji

Sky News mentioned there that it was reported the shooter made students stand up and state their religion according to witnesses.

Gatling

Xenji wrote: »

Sky News mentioned there that it was reported the shooter made students stand up and state their religion according to witnesses.

Just seen that actually

Paramite Pie

My name is URL wrote: »

Well you say that but...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/

Fair enough.... :pac:

But it's never come up in the US mass shootings (correct me if I'm wrong?). Gangs have better contacts I guess..

Capt'n Midnight

MarkAnthony wrote: »

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The National Guard is the Militia period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903

See also this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792 for how far back congress had complete control of previous militias


The US has a Navy bigger than the next 17 combined. So the only threat from invasion would be go through Canada or Mexico and you'd still have to travel across an ocean to get to them (yes Canada did burn down the White House back in 1814 but that was only because the US invaded first). There is no need for a private citizens paramilitary group.

MarkAnthony

Overheal wrote: »

Where guns have not been allowed on campuses, the death tolls have been more or less similar. Gun policy at a site doesn't have the supreme bearing on whether an incident will occur, or the severity of the incident.

One would have thought with the logic employed on previous occasions by some, a policy of allowing persons the the premises to be armed would have resulted in a much lower death toll. Hopefully that logic has now finally been laid to rest.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The National Guard is the Militia period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903

See also this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792 for how far back congress had complete control of previous militias


The US has a Navy bigger than the next 17 combined. So the only threat from invasion would be go through Canada or Mexico and you'd still have to travel across an ocean to get to them (yes Canada did burn down the White House back in 1814 but that was only because the US invaded first). There is no need for a private citizens paramilitary group.

A militia all on periods?! Surely you mean full stop?

No need, but if that's what they chose to do then that's their choice. If you're saying that there is no need for an internal militia along the lines I have suggested, internal issues in the US would seem to prove the contrary. Internal conflict has always played a part in the US gun culture.

The Black Oil

Xenji wrote: »

Sky News mentioned there that it was reported the shooter made students stand up and state their religion according to witnesses.

Heard a local reporter interviewed on BBC radio. He said it was unconfirmed, but if they answered Christian they were shot in the head, others were shot in the leg.

Seemingly news agencies are trying to figure out how so many were killed in such a short space of time. Someone has theorized that it was because they were told on 4chan to round them up into a room and shoot them all. If true.. You have to wonder how the person who recommended is feeling when they realize they're as much to blame for the deaths as the person who pulled the trigger.

Capt'n Midnight

MarkAnthony wrote: »

If you're saying that there is no need for an internal militia along the lines I have suggested, internal issues in the US would seem to prove the contrary. Internal conflict has always played a part in the US gun culture.

Remind us of all the mass killings that were prevented by armed citizens.
Then compare that to Waco or Timothy McVeigh

The stats are very, very clear on the chances of gun rampage in the US
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/06/19/poll-what-is-your-favourite-american-shooting-so-far-this-year/

FalconGirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Seemingly news agencies are trying to figure out how so many were killed in such a short space of time. Someone has theorized that it was because they were told on 4chan to round them up into a room and shoot them all. If true.. You have to wonder how the person who recommended is feeling when they realize they're as much to blame for the deaths as the person who pulled the trigger.

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/

I came across this thread elsewhere. What you mention is one of the first posts. Its an unbelievable read. Some warped people on this planet. Some posters there should be considered for accessory to murder *if* and its a big *if* this is the same case.

Streetwalker

Deleted User wrote: »

Seemingly news agencies are trying to figure out how so many were killed in such a short space of time. Someone has theorized that it was because they were told on 4chan to round them up into a room and shoot them all. If true.. You have to wonder how the person who recommended is feeling when they realize they're as much to blame for the deaths as the person who pulled the trigger.

Oh go on out of that. How in the name of god do you figure out some clown on the internet who said "yeah do this it will be cool" or some such sh1te is as responsible as the shooter??

Knex*

FalconGirl wrote: »

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/

I came across this thread elsewhere. What you mention is one of the first posts. Its an unbelievable read. Some warped people on this planet. Some posters there should be considered for accessory to murder *if* and its a big *if* this is the same case.

Some of the posts after the news broke are ****ing disturbing.

Capt'n Midnight

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Chicago actually has some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S. The problem there is guns illegally obtained by gang members. Banning guns won't stop people getting them illegally. I don't know what the cause of the problem is, it seems there is something fundamentally wrong with American society, but it's a little late for changing the law considering there are hundreds of millions of privately owned guns in the country.

Out come out the same old arguments.

Gun amnesty's got rid of a lot of weapons in Europe. At one stage the Brits were hanging Cypriots for possession of hand guns.

During the troubles in Northern Ireland , when they were smuggling in guns and explosives, from 1968 - 1998 there were 3500 murders.
In Washington DC with HALF the population there 8710 murders.

Roger Hassenforder

Streetwalker wrote: »

Oh go on out of that. How in the name of god do you figure out some clown on the internet who said "yeah do this it will be cool" or some such sh1te is as responsible as the shooter??

they share some culpability. If this nutter was in any way encouraged by these gob****es, they should be held to some form of account.

take everything

Obama talking about this now. He looks pissed.
That 4chan thread is disgraceful.
"For the lulz" nothings arguably pushed him over the edge.

take everything

Obama talking about this now. He looks pissed.
That 4chan thread is disgraceful.
"For the lulz" nothings arguably pushed him over the edge.

Amazingfun

Apparently this is the shooter.

ceadaoin.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Out come out the same old arguments.

Gun amnesty's got rid of a lot of weapons in Europe. At one stage the Brits were hanging Cypriots for possession of hand guns.

During the troubles in Northern Ireland , when they were smuggling in guns and explosives, from 1968 - 1998 there were 3500 murders.
In Washington DC with HALF the population there 8710 murders.

Ok, so ban guns and implement a gun amnesty and all the millions of gun owners in the US will be queuing up to hand over their weapons will they? No, it would start a civil war.

I'm all for tighter gun controls and proper background checks but an outright ban just isn't feasible in the U.S., and it's also illegal from a constitutional standpoint.

MadsL

As horrifying as these incidents are, violent crime in the US is lower than it has ever been in the past 40 years, and gun ownership is on the decline..

InTheTrees

I think Obama just went further in criticising the gun culture and the NRA than any other president in recent memory.

Its a political minefield in the USA though. Craziness.

Shooter confirmed dead. Number of dead unconfirmed.

Also the person who advised them on the shooting is culpable in this. Of course they are.

The response time and takedown time by the cops in this is incredible, considering the station is a few miles away. The shooter was down after 8 minutes.

Knex*

Re that YouTube video, how do we know that the uploader is actually the shooter? If he isn't, he's getting a ****storm his way for no reason.

FalconGirl

InTheTrees wrote: »

I think Obama just went further in criticising the gun culture and the NRA than any other president in recent memory.

Its a political minefield in the USA though. Craziness.

He looked genuinely frustrated and saddened. The media and congress is the problem for him.

Amazingfun

Knex. wrote: »

Re that YouTube video, how do we know that the uploader is actually the shooter? If he isn't, he's getting a ****storm his way for no reason.

We don't, it's based on chatter from 4chan.

But if you read the comments, they are not all negative, he has some supporters that seem to know him.

All quite disturbing really.

robindch

MadsL wrote: »

[...] gun ownership is on the decline..

That's something to be thankful for.

It's a crying shame that the NRA and similar vile organizations are allowed to control the debate and much of the political establishment too.

MadsL

robindch wrote: »

That's something to be thankful for.

It's a crying shame that the NRA and similar vile organizations are allowed to control the debate and much of the political establishment too.

Well some may say that the gun ownership spike was a function of the drop in crime...so we'll see.

InTheTrees

FalconGirl wrote: »

He looked genuinely frustrated and saddened. The media and congress is the problem for him.

A president in their final term can take some political risks so maybe he'll shake things up a bit.

Just bringing up comparisons to other countries will shock a lot of people, thats not something americans like to do.

Capt'n Midnight

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok, so ban guns and implement a gun amnesty and all the millions of gun owners in the US will be queuing up to hand over their weapons will they? No, it would start a civil war.

Would it ?
What evidence is there that it would descend to a civil war ?

Considering how well armed the cops/national guard/army are , how long would a civil war last ?

I'm all for tighter gun controls and proper background checks but an outright ban just isn't feasible in the U.S., and it's also illegal from a constitutional standpoint.

Regan invaded Grenada without Oking it with congress. Constitutions can be changed.

BTW Current laws allow a president to revoke US citizenship so good luck hiding behind the constitution.

Links234

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

And there, if you need it, is an example of the horrible bunch of deranged useless fcks that frequent 4chan.

The thing about 4chan is that there was always a sense that people who were saying really offensive, really deranged, and really crazy things were just doing it for the laugh and the shock factor. Being edgy and unoffendable and saying things about the jews and going heil Hitler... etc etc, and a lot of folks assume it's all a joke because it's 4chan, but there's a very real extremism that has taken over that started with /pol/ and seeped outwards from there. And the problem with the extremism is that a lot of folks brush it off as being edgy when a lot of it is serious as a heartattack. Dylann Roof was a 4channer too.

antonymin

It's too late to change American gun laws. There are just too many guns in the USA already. People aren't going to hand them in. Also, the American constitution would have to be changed.

take everything

Scary the subcultures festering on sites like 4chan nowadays.
Whether parodic or not, that beta uprising ****e (just reading about it there after googling r9k) these pathetic, frustrated nothings go on about is very disturbing.

20-30 years ago you’d just listen to some heavy metal or become a punk or something.
Now you engage in mass-shooting or incite/advise the shooter on how to kill as many innocent people as possible.

What is R9k?

That was a very moving speech from Obama.

chrissb8

Stupid draconian law to the "right" to own a gun. A law which held relevance when America was still a largely wild dangerous place. Now it's just dangerous because of that amendment. America is insane and I grow more and more scared of it everyday. One may think that's hyperbole but just take a step back and have a look at it all it's on a one way path to destruction.

ThemFifaGoals

No citizen of any country should have a gun..guns are made with the intention to kill..therefore no citizen should have a reason to own a gun..the only people who should be in possession of guns are law enforcement & the military etc...people who actually need a gun to protect & serve

Americans have obsession with guns & the right to bare arms..the paranoia is unbelievable..there so terrified of terrorist attacks when the fact of the matter is the biggest threat is themselves

Links234

take everything wrote: »

Scary the subcultures festering on sites like 4chan nowadays.

It's not just 4chan though, there's some seriously messed up places on reddit, you look at the kind of things Elliot Rodger believed and what he was into, you can see there's some serious extremism being bred in certain corners of the internet.