Couple with six children killed in Palestine

mad muffin · 09-10-2015 7:06pm

Boring username wrote: »

Well the Hamas leader in Gaza has just declared an intifada, so expect more butchery and mindless violence:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/hamas-leader-gaza-declares-intifada-deadly-attacks-continue

Do they ever learn? They're just hurting themselves, as no one cares.

Snake Plisken · 09-10-2015 7:43pm

No

Keep going lads I suggest Nodin and Dan take the rest of the anti-Semites out to Palestine to show their support to their brothers in arms!

MOD: User taking a few days off for continually ignoring mod instruction not to insult people.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:06pm

mad muffin wrote: »

Do they ever learn? They're just hurting themselves, as no one cares.

Well if they do nothing they die anyway.

Billy86 · 09-10-2015 8:10pm

Nodin wrote: »

Well if they do nothing they die anyway.

Clearly that is what a good few people think they should do, though. Just shut up and die. It`s their own fault for being Muslim, they had it coming.

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:15pm

No

davmol wrote: »

neither side have ever declared war with eachother.

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_conflict

You should probably let them know that.

davmol wrote: »

What is happening is a country which receives billions of dollars in military aid each year is slaughtering innocent children who are impoverished and have nothing.

Its a slaughter and massacre which is one sided not a war.Settlers on stolen land=fair game

What about the Israeli school children blown up in school buses by Hamas? What about the infants that have their heads crushed by Palestinian youths throwing bricks at the windows of oncoming cars?

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:17pm

No

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, I don't support the killing of any human being for any reason, but if you believe that military targets are acceptable (I take it you do, if you're more of an anti-killing purist like myself then I apologise) then how do you justify labelling settlers as civilians? They form part of an occupying invasion force just by being present there.

You don't have to wield a gun or wear a uniform to commit violence. Stealing somebody's property by force is violence in and of itself.

They're not part of the military-complex, they don't come under military law, they're not military targets. Regardless how of you feel about them as people (I, personally, dislike settlers and I know a great many Israelis who hate them too), they're still civilians.

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:23pm

No

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There is though really. The rest of the world should ostracise Israel from the world stage as it did with South Africa until the Israelis withdraw to their own border.

That worked out so well the previous two times they did it. It's not like Jordanians and Egyptians and Palestinians immediately began low-level armed crossings and then raping and murdering their civilians or anything. It's not like Egyptians and Jordanians and Palestinians and Syrians tried to rush the border to destroy the Israelis.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And maybe to take a leaf out of Likud's book, the Palestinians should build a wall along the green line to make sure no Israelis can cross it to illegally squat on Palestinian land. :pac:

Anyone who find that idea appalling, I take it you also find Israel's wall appalling?

It's easy to be facetious, but that simply isn't going to happen. Hamas won't give up until all of Israel/Palestine comes under their control, and Israel isn't going to give up its Statehood.

There's no easy answer to this conflict.

hatrickpatrick · 09-10-2015 8:24pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

They're not part of the military-complex, they don't come under military law, they're not military targets. Regardless how of you feel about them as people (I, personally, dislike settlers and I know a great many Israelis who hate them too), they're still civilians.

I don't agree. They moved into the areas beyond the 1967 borders as the Israeli army forced out the Palestinians who were living there, and they formed the occupying body. If that doesn't make them part of the military complex I don't know what does.

KingBrian2 · 09-10-2015 8:27pm

Nodin wrote: »

Well if they do nothing they die anyway.

A disorganised mob will only encourage Israeli wrath. Your early posts are full of Palestinian stories of heartache and police brutality. Everyday Israeli's live in constant insecurity. The gvt is one of National Unity all the time. Will a terrorist pop up in Tel Aviv, big nations like Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey all have Muslim populations greatly dissatisfied with how they treat Arabs.

The Palestinian authorities have to reclaim the moral standard of which so many Nations around the world stick up for them. Behaving like this will get them nowhere and being suck into Islamism will only cancel any peace deal. The Oslo Accords are already on the rocks and so much harm has been done with the rise of Islamaphobia around the world. These outrageous acts of anti Zionism will erode any support they have.

BlaasForRafa · 09-10-2015 8:32pm

Nodin wrote: »

Well if they do nothing they die anyway.

The rapidly increasing population of palestinians suggests otherwise.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:34pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

What about the infants that have their heads crushed by Palestinian youths throwing bricks at the windows of oncoming cars?

....you've examples of this?

I might add that Israel was colonising the OT long before Hamas or the suicide bomb.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:35pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The rapidly increasing population of palestinians suggests otherwise.

....my point being that Israeli violence is not caused by Palestinian violence but by its occupation of the territories and their colonisation.

end of the road · 09-10-2015 8:38pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_conflict

You should probably let them know that.

all those started after israely aggression

IrishTrajan wrote: »

What about the Israeli school children blown up in school buses by Hamas? What about the infants that have their heads crushed by Palestinian youths throwing bricks at the windows of oncoming cars?

if any of those happened they would have been 1 incident for each and a one off

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:42pm

No

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't agree.

Oh, well that changes the facts entirely :rolleyes:

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They moved into the areas beyond the 1967 borders as the Israeli army forced out the Palestinians who were living there, and they formed the occupying body. If that doesn't make them part of the military complex I don't know what does.

Being part of the military, for one.

Nodin wrote: »

....you've examples of this?

I might add that Israel was colonising the OT long before Hamas or the suicide bomb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_stone-throwing

On 24 February 1989, a cement block was dropped from a rooftop by a Fatah activist, Samir Na’neesh, onto the head of Staff Sergeant Binyamin Meisner, while he was patrolling the casbah in Nablus. The block crushed his skull, killing him.[193]
On 5 June 2001, Yehuda Shoham, a 5-month-old baby, was killed when a rock hurled by stone-throwing Palestinians crashed through the window of the car he was riding in, crushing his skull.[194]
On 23 September 2011, Asher (25) and Yonatan Palmer (1) were killed when the car Asher was driving was attacked by stone-throwing Palestinians, causing it to crash killing him along with his infant son.[195]
On 14 March 2013,[196] the Biton's family car was attacked, near neighboring village of Kif el-Hares, with stones which caused it to get out of control and collide with a truck. Adele Biton was critically injured along with her mother and 3 sisters who were moderately injured, and died two years later.[197]
On 14 September 2015 Alexander Levlovich (64) died early morning after Palestinian attackers pelted the road he was driving on with rocks as he was returning home from a dinner celebrating Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year.[198][199]

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:45pm

No

end of the road wrote: »

all those started after israely aggression

The Yom Kippur War, when the Arabs invaded Israel during the middle of a celebration was in response to Israeli aggression?

Have you ever even actually read a book on this subject?

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:45pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_stone-throwing

So it happened once, and - barring x-ray vision - the rock was thrown at the car rather than the infant.

Might I ask - what is your opinion of the settlements in the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc?

BlaasForRafa · 09-10-2015 8:49pm

Nodin wrote: »

....my point being that Israeli violence is not caused by Palestinian violence but by its occupation of the territories and their colonisation.

Well a certain amount of the Israeli reaction is caused by Palestinian violence but I do agree that the illegal land-grabs, illegal building, destruction of crops and orchards, provocations and "taggings" by settlers amongst other things are a severe provocation.

Killing settlers is not going to help the palestinian cause though, that's got to be pretty obvious.

IrishTrajan · 09-10-2015 8:51pm

No

Nodin wrote: »

So it happened once, and - barring x-ray vision - the rock was thrown at the car rather than the infant.

And that somehow justifies it or absolves them of guilt?

Nodin wrote: »

Might I ask - what is your opinion of the settlements in the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc?

I oppose it, the majority of settlers are scum of the earth. That doesn't mean you can turn a blind eye to the violence of the Palestinians, as you and most people on your side of the fence are wont to do.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:54pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well a certain amount of the Israeli reaction is caused by Palestinian violence but I do agree that the illegal land-grabs, illegal building, destruction of crops and orchards, provocations and "taggings" by settlers amongst other things are a severe provocation.

An occupation mounted to enable colonisation must be, by its very nature, violent. They aren't there to keep the peace, they are there to subdue.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 8:56pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

And that somehow justifies it or absolves them of guilt?.

It places your claim in its proper context.

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I oppose it, the majority of settlers are scum of the earth. That doesn't mean you can turn a blind eye to the violence of the Palestinians, as you and most people on your side of the fence are wont to do.

The Palestinians are being colonised and are denied legal recourse. As a result resistance armed and otherwise against the occupation is fully justified. Why anyone would think otherwise often suprises me.

BlaasForRafa · 09-10-2015 9:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

An occupation mounted to enable colonisation must be, by its very nature, violent. They aren't there to keep the peace, they are there to subdue.

I would say that they are there to keep the peace but that inevitably becomes a one sided affair. If the law was equally applied to both sides then that might be a start but letting settlers get away with stuff that palestinians are arrested/prosecuted for makes things far worse.

Dan_Solo · 09-10-2015 9:07pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Keep going lads I suggest Nodin and Dan take the rest of the anti-Semites out to Palestine to show their support to their brothers in arms!

Is there something else in your Zionist PR handbook besides "call them an anti-Semite"? It's a bit entry level that anti-Zionist/anti-Semite conflation you know.

KingBrian2 · 09-10-2015 9:09pm

Nodin wrote: »

It places your claim in its proper context.

The Palestinians are being colonised and are denied legal recourse. As a result resistance armed and otherwise against the occupation is fully justified. Why anyone would think otherwise often suprises me.

Most people bar the fringe few support the two state solution. This is not news. The reason the death of two Israeli citizens is on the front page and not the countless Gazans is because they are recognised as part of Israeli society and the greater Jewish community. The Arabs, Kurds and Palestinians refugees being killed as a result of Islamism is not given news coverage as the west want to ignore the legitimate requests for self determination.

Dan_Solo · 09-10-2015 9:09pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Clearly that is what a good few people think they should do, though. Just shut up and die. It`s their own fault for being Muslim, they had it coming.

To be fair now, they are Muslims who just happened to be living in a country that Mr Skyfairy had promised to somebody else.

Dan_Solo · 09-10-2015 9:13pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If the law was equally applied to both sides

If "the law" i.e. international law, was applied, hell even Israel's own laws, there would be no settlers.

Nodin · 09-10-2015 9:13pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I would say that they are there to keep the peace but that inevitably becomes a one sided affair..

Well, its to keep the peace for some people, certainly.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If the law was equally applied to both sides then that might be a start but letting settlers get away with stuff that palestinians are arrested/prosecuted for makes things far worse.

Stuff that they get shot dead for, tbh. The only question regarding what would happen a group of masked Palestinians attacking a jewish settlement in broad daylight would concern what killed them.

As regards settlers, they are charged under Israeli law as opposed to martial law, and the odds of them being convicted are tiny.
http://www.yesh-din.org/infoitem.asp?infocatid=704

Nodin · 09-10-2015 9:15pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

To be fair now, they are Muslims who just happened to be living in a country that Mr Skyfairy had promised to somebody else.

Well that was one thing. Then certain parties not a million miles from this Island promised it to them and the Palestinian arabs at the same time. Which really helped, of course.

KingBrian2 · 09-10-2015 9:25pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If "the law" i.e. international law, was applied, hell even Israel's own laws, there would be no settlers.

They are living on a place where law is trampled on. Multiple breaches of peace have been committed by both sides. Torture, police brutality, rioting, inciting violence, political assassination and civilian targeting. :eek:

It's all well for some of us but for combatants they continue to encourage war and revenge. Perfect conditions for terrorists to prey on the vulnerable and press for more violence.

KingBrian2 · 09-10-2015 9:30pm

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.yesh-din.org/infoitem.asp?infocatid=704

My god the Palestinians have a Minister for struggle against the barriers. We know something has gone to pieces when they start having Ministers for this purpose.

tayto lover · 09-10-2015 9:31pm

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They are living on a place where law is trampled on. Multiple breaches of peace have been committed by both sides. Torture, police brutality, rioting, inciting violence, political assassination and civilian targeting. :eek:

It's all well for some of us but for combatants they continue to encourage war and revenge. Perfect conditions for terrorists to prey on the vulnerable and press for more violence.

They are living in a huge concentration camp controlled and manipulated by the Israeli Govt.
Nothing more..

Couple with six children killed in Palestine

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