RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

Inspector Coptoor

WarZ wrote: »

It's just amazing that in a game where our back row is being torn to shreds the player with the least amount of tackles, who gave away the most amount of penalties and who was yellow carded was MAGNIFICENT whilst Heaslip and SOB are allegedly poor.

Something's amiss.

I didn't mention O Mahony as I thought he was worse than the other two.
The yellow card was a daft rush to the head, something he is prone to.

I'd be a fan of Henderson at 6 for the next day out and drop POM to the Bench

WarZ

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I didn't mention O Mahony as I thought he was worse an the other two.
The yellow card was a daft rush to the head, something he is prone to.

I'd be a fan of Henderson at 6 for the next day out and drop POM to the Bench

Unfortunately the main line of comment here is that POM was not only our best backrow but one of our best performing players.

All of this in a back row that was torn to shreds apparently, but POM had nothing to do with that of course. It was apparently everyone else's fault! Definitely not the fault of the backrow player with the least tackles, most infringements and who got a yellow card!!

Pudsy33

Sean Kinsella wrote: »

With respect, some of us are responding to a poor performance overall and how do you know we'll be better against France? What if they're better too?

I just think we will raise it when the stakes ate higher. We weren't great today by any stretch but I don't think we were as bad as everyone is making out. A bit more accuracy and intensity and we will be right back at it. We have had the number of France the past few years and I don't see that changing. The gulf in the quality of our coaches is huge.

.ak

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all.
One of the poorest displays from SOB and an Irish back row in general in quite a while.
It wasn't for a lack of effort mind, they just couldn't get the upper hand on their Italian counterparts with Parisse and their open side having fine performances.
Much sterner tests ahead

The Italian open side lined SOB up a few times and stopped him making yards.

SOB became more effective as the game went on and as the Italians tired and then he was replaced by Henry

Sob made yards on every carry I'm fairly sure.

Goldstein

Don't see how you can leave Henderson out of starting XV after today (even before today). Consistently one of the few who gets across the gainline. He was pushed back once today when he was off balance but it's an exceptional occurence. I know France are a step up but our own lineouts were perfect today. You lose so much not having Henderson in the team and Toner good as he has been can't compensate for that loss.

Plus who else is going to take the opposition for their walkies?

Inspector Coptoor

.ak wrote: »

Sob made yards on every carry I'm fairly sure.

He made yards from where he got the ball to the gain line and then was chopped by their open side a number of times.

I'm not saying he didn't break the gain line at all.

You said every time, and well, that's not true

AbusesToilets

Baffled at how people are saying that POM was our most effective back rower. Neither stats nor observation would attest to that. I don't think that the team was particularly effective against the Italians, disappointingly so, but POM was in no way the stand out contributor that folks are portraying him to be.

Best was the best player on the field for me, especially towards the end. made some huge carries to generate momentum for the team when the game was in he balance.

WarZ

Goldstein wrote: »

Don't see how you can leave Henderson out of starting XV after today (even before today). Consistently one of the few who gets across the gainline. He was pushed back once today when he was off balance but it's an exceptional occurence. I know France are a step up but our own lineouts were perfect today. You lose so much not having Henderson in the team and Toner good as he has been can't compensate for that loss.

Plus who else is going to take the opposition for their walkies?

Why not play Henderson in his best position, no.6, where he will surely excel even more so?
Then we can play Toner as well.

Stheno

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Baffled at how people are saying that POM was our most effective back rower. Neither stats nor observation would attest to that. I don't think that the team was particularly effective against the Italians, disappointingly so, but POM was in no way the stand out contributor that folks are portraying him to be.

Best was the best player on the field for me, especially towards the end. made some huge carries to generate momentum for the team when the game was in he balance.

I too thought best was good today

WarZ

Stheno wrote: »

I too thought best was good today

Yeah I have to say he proved me wrong towards the end. Stood up when counted alongside Heaslip and Sexton.

.ak

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

He made yards from where he got the ball to the gain line and then was chopped by their open side a number of times.

I'm not saying he didn't break the gain line at all.

You said every time, and well, that's not true

No, I said over the gainline. I'm fairly sure that is true. If not it was 90% success rate. That's very impressive for a primary carrier. He had an very, very good game in terms of carrying, and people have been moaning about us not having a carrier that can get gain line success, and here we have a game where one carrier gets over it every time. Other teams can only dream of that sort of carrier.

rrpc

Strange game that. You'd probably be forgiven for thinking it was another warm up.

We under-resourced rucks, tried to carry the ball wherever we got it and seemed to think that wingers were just there to catch garryowens.

Clearly there was some sort of strategy in mind, but for the life of me I couldn't understand what it was.

We soaked so many tackles that we gave up dozens of yards without a shot being fired. It was a bizarre performance that strangely improved when the subs came on and we were down to fourteen men.

I haven't read back the thread, but I'm sure there will be the usual scapegoating going on; though how anybody could be measured when the baseline was so low is beyond me.
If we were due one crap performance in this World Cup, I hope that was it.

Nermal

What's the consensus on giving away so much ground (ten, twenty metres) every time the Italians went wide? This didn't resolve itself after half time.

crybaby

Thought the Italians did a good job of shutting down Henderson. Murray made a few critical little mistakes when we were in dangerous positions and Sexton just never grabbed hold of the game. Our first half defensive line reminded me of the game against Wales in 2011 we seemed happy to concede ten metres every time the Italians touched the ball.

A disappointing performance overall but maybe the wake up call the lads need before we go to war with the French next Sunday

Stheno

Between the pre match interviews, the performance today and the post match interviews, I now have a feeling this was targetted as a must win game with no injuries

That is exactly what happened

andymx11

The performance kind of reminded me of the the 2013 Australia game- seemed to lack a bit of drive and intensity.

The win was everyone's number one priority and we got that so the team can put it behind them and focus on France. Rightly or wrongly the France game was probably at the back of the players minds and they took their eye off the ball (literally).

Can expect a much better performance next week- we know the team are better than this. One bad game doesn't make a World Cup. If we are in the same position this time next week we can start to worry.

Chill out people tomorrow is Monday focus your anger on that!

marco_polo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Baffled at how people are saying that POM was our most effective back rower. Neither stats nor observation would attest to that. I don't think that the team was particularly effective against the Italians, disappointingly so, but POM was in no way the stand out contributor that folks are portraying him to be.

Best was the best player on the field for me, especially towards the end. made some huge carries to generate momentum for the team when the game was in he balance.

I think he played quite well today, I suppose the lineout steal and tackle were eye catching moments that stood out and got noticed.

To be honest the backrow is the least of our worries, Parrise was certainly more visible in attack than anyone on our side but not sure how people seem to be arriving at the conclusion that Italy dominated the breakdown.

MikeCork2009

I was one of those predicting a 30+ win. Disappointed that we didn't do that but relieved with the win. Think we looked a bit like a team afraid to lose today rather than one confident of a win. Combined with an Italy team who upped their game dramatically and were playing for their WC lives made for a very edgy performance. Still through to the 1/4 finals and hopefully that's the nervy/lack lustre performance out of the way. Onwards and upwards from here

Goldstein

WarZ wrote: »

Why not play Henderson in his best position, no.6, where he will surely excel even more so?
Then we can play Toner as well.

You might have a point but we both know Schmidt has him pegged in the 2nd row.

I think the same about Earls, he can do a job in the center but his best position is on the wing where he can put that incredible acceleration to best use. Dave Kearney was fairly annonomous today but it wasn't his fault. I'd still have himself and Earls at 11 & 14 for France.

Zyzz

uptherebels

WarZ wrote: »

It's just amazing that in a game where our back row is being torn to shreds the player with the least amount of tackles, who gave away the most amount of penalties and who was yellow carded was MAGNIFICENT whilst Heaslip and SOB are allegedly poor.

Something's amiss.

He also beat more defenders and made the try saving tackle. Its easy to cherry pick stats :rolleyes: . Also i don't remember anyone saying he was "MAGNIFICENT".

AbusesToilets

marco_polo wrote: »

I think he played quite well today, I suppose the lineout steal and tackle were eye catching moments that stood out and got noticed.

To be honest the backrow is the least of our worries, Parrise was certainly more visible in attack than anyone on our side but not sure how people seem to be arriving at the conclusion that Italy dominated the breakdown.

Felt Garces let a lot go at the breakdown, certainly from green tinted glasses, there were a lot of penalties left uncalled.

lunarhog

Ah would you all quit your whining. Italy really stepped up today, I don't think I've ever seen them play as well against Ireland as today. Yes, Ireland had a poor day at the office but they definitely can turn it around. Have faith in Joe and the team lads, were not back to back 6 nations champions for nothing

.ak

Just checked the stats, SOB topped the carries over gain line stat with 10 gain line successes. That's impressive.

awec

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

irishbucsfan

lunarhog wrote: »

Ah would you all quit your whining. Italy really stepped up today, I don't think I've ever seen them play as well against Ireland as today. Yes, Ireland had a poor day at the office but they definitely can turn it around. Have faith in Joe and the team lads, were not back to back 6 nations champions for nothing

We'll they have beaten us before!

I think we made them look far better than they are. Or rather, we played the game exactly to their tastes when we should have been playing to their weaknesses.

rrpc

.ak wrote: »

No, I said over the gainline. I'm fairly sure that is true. If not it was 90% success rate. That's very impressive for a primary carrier. He had an very, very good game in terms of carrying, and people have been moaning about us not having a carrier that can get gain line success, and here we have a game where one carrier gets over it every time. Other teams can only dream of that sort of carrier.

Official statistics have SOB as having the most carries across the gainline (10), Heaslip next (7) and then Henderson and Murray (6).

.ak

awec wrote: »

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

I really don't see where you're coming from there? Sob was our best back row today, he was very good. I can't see how you can say he played like a busted flush at all?

Tox56

awec wrote: »

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

SOB did well with a lot of terrible ball, I cant understand the stick he is getting on here, he went forward more consistently than anyone else in the team. If anyone is possibly in danger its Heaslip as he was pretty mediocre today, but I dont think thats particularly realistic either

KingBrian2

Italy clogged up the middle of the field to make it difficult for us to break through that's how they got turnover ball. Ireland defended well in a game like this though I believe we should have attacked more. We may have been fearful of injury as it looked like the Italians wanted to bring a really big physical assault on us for their last game.

Ireland never looked like they were under threat, most of the good Italian play came from deep. We allowed them to play for much of the first half and the second half. When we go up against France the faults we had in the line-out and maul have to be improved upon. When were good were good this match did not bring that out in us. Dul ar Éirinn.:)