Chelsea Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

GavRedKing

Clear Hearts wrote: »

TBH Benteke is a better player, just used terrible at pool

Nah, cant agree with that at all.

As target man hes miles better than Lukaku but for everything else, I'd take Lukaku.

Both havent been tested at the highest level though reguarly enough but I'd reckon Lukaku will go on to have a better career than Benteke.

Clear Hearts

GavRedKing wrote: »

Nah, cant agree with that at all.

As target man hes miles better than Lukaku but for everything else, I'd take Lukaku.

Both havent been tested at the highest level though reguarly enough but I'd reckon Lukaku will go on to have a better career than Benteke.

Really, I think Benteke in the right situation a far better player. Better in the air, stronger more athletic. Lukaku is faster and slightly better at dribbling but if Benteke hadnt gone to Liverpool and stayed at Aston Villa he would have started in France

hullaballoo

Benteke is too much of a risk and even someone as lacking in any footballing acumen as Wilmots can see that. He hasn't played consistently since before his injury in early 2014... He might have turned to total siht now like so many promising strikers who suffer major injuries. Falcao went from one of the world's best to where? Middlesborough? in 3 years. If you're Wilmots, you're going to pick the players who have been getting game time and scoring at least a few goals.

Unfortunately for Belgium, they are suffering from poor management, a lack of structure within the team, highlighted by a lack of on-the-pitch leadership (Hazard? Not a leader of men) and pizz poor individual performances.

Lukker-

It's strange, Belgian football is really well managed from the ground up but they fail at the final hurdle of having a good manager.

GavRedKing

Clear Hearts wrote: »

Really, I think Benteke in the right situation a far better player. Better in the air, stronger more athletic. Lukaku is faster and slightly better at dribbling but if Benteke hadnt gone to Liverpool and stayed at Aston Villa he would have started in France

Well thats impossible to call, Villa were brutal and hardly scored, unless we argue Benteke would have got them about 10-15 goals, had that been the case they might have stayed up or got closer to it at least.

Theres about 18months seperating both players, I'd much prefer Lukaku but theres no universe where hes worth £60m his value is probably what we sold him for, same with Benteke, his top end value is probably about £30m too but Lukaku is more likely, IMO, to go on and become a CF at a top EPL side or European side.

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

It's strange, Belgian football is really well managed from the ground up but they fail at the final hurdle of having a good manager.

Whats mental is a strong CB partnership like Vertonghen and Alderweirld is broken up at National level, yes they have serious injury problems at the back but I'd prefer a strong CB pairing.

Had Conte been in charge of Belgium the result last night would have reveresed, Wilmots doesnt seem to have a clue although his 2 CFs missing sitter after sitter isnt really his problem either.

Lukker-

GavRedKing wrote: »

Whats mental is a strong CB partnership like Vertonghen and Alderweirld is broken up at National level, yes they have serious injury problems at the back but I'd prefer a strong CB pairing.

Had Conte been in charge of Belgium the result last night would have reveresed, Wilmots doesnt seem to have a clue although his 2 CFs missing sitter after sitter isnt really his problem either.

Belgium would win the tournament if they had a manager like Conte.

hullaballoo

I have yet to see any evidence that he does any tactical training whatsoever with them either, though.

It seems to me that Kompany is a huge loss for them, just as he is for City when they don't have his leadership from the back. Kompany is probably the reason Wilmots has an impressive win% so far with Belgium (73% iirc from googling it 30 seconds ago) and might well be the reason he's still in the job. I mean can you imagine the reaction at CFC if someone said they were thinking of making Eden Hazard captain?

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

Belgium would win the tournament if they had a manager like Conte.

So you're saying Chelsea are going to do the domestic treble next year?

Clear Hearts

GavRedKing wrote: »

Well thats impossible to call, Villa were brutal and hardly scored, unless we argue Benteke would have got them about 10-15 goals, had that been the case they might have stayed up or got closer to it at least.

Theres about 18months seperating both players, I'd much prefer Lukaku but theres no universe where hes worth £60m his value is probably what we sold him for, same with Benteke, his top end value is probably about £30m too but Lukaku is more likely, IMO, to go on and become a CF at a top EPL side or European side.

There is obviously only one way for us to decide this, friendly 5 euro bet over who progresses more in the next five years

Clear Hearts

Lukker- wrote: »

Belgium would win the tournament if they had a manager like Conte.

Belgium would win the tournament with a manager like David O'Leary, Wilmots is a joke should be nowhere near the team.
Michel Preud'homme is by far the best manager for Belgium brought success to both Brugge and Liege against the powerhouse Anderlecht, has the same reputation as Wilmots as a international hero but far better manager, Wilmots career has been failure at Schalke then failure at Sint-Truiden

McDave

TimRiggins wrote: »

Basing all this on one international game is silly. Nainggolan would be an excellent addition.

Belgium have a serious inabillity to play as a team. Every player trying for a piece of magic to win it, but not willing to work towards it.

Impressed by Italy and Conte's tactics. Would certainly not mind him bringing Bonucci or Chellini either.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that it's based on one game? The evidence for criticising Chelsea's Belgian contingent is persistent and strong.

Lukaku had a fine season as a main man for a modest team. But he has repeatedly failed at the top table, including Chelea's Supercup match, the last World Cup, and last night. Mou saw fit to let him move on.

De Bruyne probably has more to him, but his mentality is also in question. As Mou determined.

Hazard is rapidly losing his lustre. His attitude is completely in question, having basically taken the domestic season off, and deciding to up his game only in the run up to this competition. Only to have a moderate impact on last night's game. Mou also questioned his real ability and commitment. I think we're getting our answer. Let's hope he's not damaged goods by the time we sell him.

Courtois has class. He had an unsatisfactory season behind a compromised defence. I'd be keeping him. Particularly if Conte can deal with morale generally.

As for Nainggolan, let's see. I'd trust Conte's judgement. But ideally we'd be wanting value for the outlay.

McDave

GavRedKing wrote: »

Italy were very good and defended well, however, they gave up about 3 or 4 chances that Belgium should have buried. Speaking from an Irish POV, we'll need to perform for 90 mins against Belgium to the standard we did in the first half yesterday and hope Belgium have an off day in front of goal again as our defending and ability to organise ourselves on the pitch is p*ss poor.

It amazes me everytime I see Fellaini play for Belgium considering all their attacking talent theyve a bruiser with decent technique playing as the attacking focus point of the central midfield, I was genuinely shocked to see Origi was as bad if not worse than Lukaku after missing those chances.

From a Chelsea POV, nobody past or present were worth talking about in a positive light.

Courtois, made 2 or 3 saves youd expect him too.
De Bruyne pulled a Houdini and disappeared.
Hazard huffed and puffed but couldnt make anything happen hes the most frustrating player in the world with the ball at his feet, slows everything down and doesnt drive at his opponent enough, always waiting for support.
Lukaku, for a guy whos 6'2/3 and built like a barn and blessed with a great turn of pace, he couldnt get in behind and he couldnt hold up the ball, its not just his big game mentality, for me, hes just not a very clever footballer and that back 3 had him in their pocket pretty much all night.

It's probably a bit cruel, but for all Lukaku's aspirations to follow in Drogba's footsteps, he's turning out more like Heskey. You'd hope he'd develop, but it seems his trajectory is a bit flat.

McDave

Pyjamarama wrote: »

You've obviously done indepth scouting there...

Belgium were as they often are in international tournaments massively out coached. Wilmots hasn't a clue... They needed width to counter Contes 3atb but played KDB outwide and Feldog in the middle... madness. KDB in the middle and then either Origi or Mertens out wide and it could have been a very different game.

The indepth analysis has already been done by Mou who made his position clear to Lukaku, De Bruyne and Hazard.

Frankly, that's good enough for me.

hullaballoo

I'm no Lukaku fan but comparing him to Emile Heskey is taking your analysis beyond credibility. I know it's probably hyperbole on your part but it really is beyond a joke.

ShoulderChip

ignore

McDave

hullaballoo wrote: »

I'm no Lukaku fan but comparing him to Emile Heskey is taking your analysis beyond credibility. I know it's probably hyperbole on your part but it really is beyond a joke.

Listen there bud, I'm just giving my opinion. And while it may be tongue in cheek, it's not hyperbole.

There's no need to be sensitive. Lukaku is well within bounds of criticism. He doesn't have great touch or ball control. He can be a bit of a lumberer. He got 15 goals this season. Not bad. But Heskey got into double figures on occasion too. He wasn't great. Lukaku is better. But how much better at this point? That's up to him to prove.

grumpymunster

If I were Ivan and Cahill I would be more than a little worried, if Conte reacts like this to a generally good defensive performance they are in serious trouble

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2016/6/15/11940772/the-passion-of-the-conte

peteeeed

west ham at home first game

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2016/06/home-start-to-league-campaign.html

Johner

Jose back to the bridge in October.

GavRedKing

McDave wrote: »

It's probably a bit cruel, but for all Lukaku's aspirations to follow in Drogba's footsteps, he's turning out more like Heskey. You'd hope he'd develop, but it seems his trajectory is a bit flat.

Heskey has over 500 games in the EPL and 110 goals or a goal every 5 games, which is pretty terrible.

Lukaku has played 150 EPL games and scored 60 goals or a goal every 2 and a half games.

Heskeys best season he managed 14 goals and hit double figures 4 times scoring 10 goals in 3 seasons and 14 one season.

Lukakus best season he scored 18, in total hes managed double figures 4 times, 10, 15, 17 and 18 goals.

Given the above hes much more likely to go on and surpass Heskey and Drogbas scoring record within the next 3/4 years, he may not win as much as Drogba but that all depends on his next choice of club as Everton is only going to be a stepping stone.

I'd take Lukaku back for the right price but not anything near the 60m being touted around the press, IMO hes probably worth 40-45m tops and thats if guys like Vardy and Deeney are subject to bids of around 20m.

Lukaku is certainly more Drogba than he is Heskey for me anyway.

GavRedKing

peteeeed wrote: »

west ham at home first game

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2016/06/home-start-to-league-campaign.html

Our end to the season is much more promising then the start anyway.

I'm going try get over for the Burnley game anyway, still on holidays from work that weekend.

Lukker-

£32m bid rejected for Andre Gomes acording to Sky Sports.

Johner

He looked very tidy last night.

GavRedKing

The prices in the game are crazy, especially for the English clubs. Little or no value there unles you manage to unearth a gem like Mahrez or Kante on the cheap.

Duck Soup

Pedro allegedly wants back to Barca.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3642894/Pedro-wants-shock-Barcelona-return-just-one-season-Chelsea.html

McDave

Duck Soup wrote: »

Pedro allegedly wants back to Barca.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3642894/Pedro-wants-shock-Barcelona-return-just-one-season-Chelsea.html

Maybe he knows the way the wind will blow under Conte.

glued

Johner wrote: »

He looked very tidy last night.

Good player. Was pretty ineffective for Valencia this year but so was everyone bar Jaume and Mustafi. Plays all over the place as he's really quick. I think he played on both the left and right wing this season but will definitely be more naturally suited to the middle.

He'll be an excellent player if he's allowed the time to develop.

Lukker-

Marca are saying we are offering Real Betis up to 10 players on loan. Would like to see Solanke there possibly, they only have 1 striker at the minute and he's 34.

Lukker-

Pedro back to Barca seems to be gathering pace. As long as we make back what we paid for him I don't mind. Think he could have been decent under Conte but he might not fit his plans. Probably means Cuadrado is returning though.

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

Pedro back to Barca seems to be gathering pace. As long as we make back what we paid for him I don't mind. Think he could have been decent under Conte but he might not fit his plans. Probably means Cuadrado is returning though.

Barca will probably get him for about 15-17m which isnt much of a loss in the grand scheme of things.

Cuadrado mightnt be too bad if hes given a full pre-season with the club. I'm hoping for Italy be K/O'd out in the next round though.

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

Marca are saying we are offering Real Betis up to 10 players on loan. Would like to see Solanke there possibly, they only have 1 striker at the minute and he's 34.

Has Solanke signed a new contract yet? He wanted something like 50k a week to sign a new deal recently.

SureYWouldntYa

Lukker- wrote: »

Marca are saying we are offering Real Betis up to 10 players on loan. Would like to see Solanke there possibly, they only have 1 striker at the minute and he's 34.

Going for a new Vitesse? Be better quality of league I suppose.

Musonda would surely be heading back

GavRedKing

Ya I think Musonda is pretty nailed on to get another season in Spain.

He had a decent time out there so another season should, all things going well, improve him further.

grumpymunster

So half way through June no reinforcements bought - looking like another transfer window like last season how depressing.

SureYWouldntYa

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ya I think Musonda is pretty nailed on to get another season in Spain.

He had a decent time out there so another season should, all things going well, improve him further.

I'd like to see more of our youngsters tested in the Premier League if at all possible. Bamford obviously didn't work out at 2 different clubs last year, but Sturridge had a very good half year at Bolton few years ago which lead to him being trusted and given a chance. Less questions of a player being good if he was successful in England than other European countries.

Lukker-

grumpymunster wrote: »

So half way through June no reinforcements bought - looking like another transfer window like last season how depressing.

Hard to get business done before the Euro's, especially when our manager is working full time with Italy.

Most teams have signed 1 player max, we'll get there, it's gonna be harder to get deals done without CL football, teams know we are desperate, but we can't overpay or else we'll end up overpaying for every single target.

grumpymunster

Before the World Cup 2 years ago all business done and dusted before the training camps even took place. Conte was announced weeks ago and I am sure discussions were taking place for a long time before that. I cannot believe there was not a shopping list for the club to try and purchase - after all the manager only has a small role in the actual purchase of players (and sometimes not even in the selection of players to purchase).

Last year was so bad you really have to fear that little has been learnt. I hope your right though.

grumpymunster

So the lesser spotted Papy might be making Bremen his permanent home

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/chelsea-fc-transfer-rumours-news/2016/6/16/11952326/chelsea-international-man-of-mystery-papy-djilobodji-on-bundesliga

GavRedKing

grumpymunster wrote: »

So half way through June no reinforcements bought - looking like another transfer window like last season how depressing.

I'd say Contes work with Italy meant that was always going to be case.

Was hoping we'd have something sorted before the Euros but at this stage, we wont get any major transfers sorted until Italy are out I fear and it could be too late.

Lukker-

According to Di Marizo, Conté has asked Carlo Cudicini to return to Chelsea as a coach. I'd absolutely love that, he was one of my favorite players before Roman took over.

Possibly new GK coach? Lollichon is staying, but will be working outside of the first team due to him and Tbo not seeing eye to eye.

Lukker-

And from the Times, apparently Conte has told Chelsea that he plans to play 3-3-4 next season, switching to a 4-4-2 if necessary.

Panthro

Lukker- wrote: »

And from the Times, apparently Conte has told Chelsea that he plans to play 3-3-4 next season, switching to a 4-4-2 if necessary.

3-4-3?
God help Terry...!

Lukker-

Panthro wrote: »

3-4-3?
God help Terry...!

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2016/5/22/11739446/watch-antonio-contes-3-3-4-system-explained

Would suit Terry well, with 2 fast CB's either side. Terry's got a good range of passing too, which suits the system, dunno how he would deal with a high press though.

hots

Lukker- wrote: »

According to Di Marizo, Conté has asked Carlo Cudicini to return to Chelsea as a coach. I'd absolutely love that, he was one of my favorite players before Roman took over.

Possibly new GK coach? Lollichon is staying, but will be working outside of the first team due to him and Tbo not seeing eye to eye.

Has Carlo finished up over here doing his badges? Wasn't he working with the U23s or something?

GavRedKing

Cudicini is on the U21 Irish coaching setup. I think there was chat that Conte wanted to bring in a goalkeeping coach to work with Courtois on his own aside from Lollichon, which is kind of crazy if the club is pandering to Courtois that way.

Lukker-

GavRedKing wrote: »

Cudicini is on the U21 Irish coaching setup. I think there was chat that Conte wanted to bring in a goalkeeping coach to work with Courtois on his own aside from Lollichon, which is kind of crazy if the club is pandering to Courtois that way.

I don't think so. Gk coaching is more 1 on 1 than other coaching. If they don't get on its doing them both a favour.

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

I don't think so. Gk coaching is more 1 on 1 than other coaching. If they don't get on its doing them both a favour.

I read Conte wanted to bring in his own coach anyway since Jose left, he took one of his own staff, who was a GK coach with him, Silvino Louro.

GavRedKing

Carlo with some words on Conte.

When I needed a leader, Chelsea's Antonio Conte was the obvious choice

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/16/carlo-ancelotti-exclusive-when-i-needed-a-leader-chelseas-antoni/

kev1.3s

Another win for Italy, anybody see how they played?