Advocaat Steps Down

Tomagotchye

Dick has stepped down as Sunderland manager. Not that surprising after what was an uninspiring transfer window and a appalling start to the season. They are second bottom of the table.

I thought it was a mistake that he stayed on after last season. The traditional mid-season manager swap continues for Sunderland. This must be their 10th manager in 5 seasons (if somebody knows)?

Not idea who is favourite for the job but I guess it will be an unknown or somebody from the Championship.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/04/sunderland-manager-dick-advocaat-exits-stadium-of-light

Xterminator

allerdyce can bring order to sunderland, if they can entice him back into football with backing in the december window.

dyche might not be bad either, but big sam would be taylor made for the situation sunderland are in.

monkey9

This has come out of nowhere for me. First i heard of this was the Soccer Saturday lads yesterday talking about the West Ham game probably being his last.

Is he gone because he doesn't think he can keep Sunderland up or is it just a family thing where he just wants to go home?

That_Guy

monkey9 wrote: »

Is he gone because he doesn't think he can keep Sunderland up or is it just a family thing where he just wants to go home?

I'm sure Paully and the other Sunderland lads will have more knowledge about the whole thing but AFAIK he was promised some backing in the window and didn't get it.

Don't blame him but they are horrible to watch under him. Not that I can say much being a Newcastle fan and all that.

I think Allardyce would be mad to take the job. Pearson is probably the most likely to get it.

Agent Coulson

Nigel Pearson might just be the man to sort out those party boy players sure didn't he fight off wild wolves with his bare hands in the mountains of Romania or somewhere like that.

Paully D

It has been a long time coming despite him only being back a short time and was all over the Sunderland forum early last week. I honestly expected him to walk at the beginning of September.

Just my opinion, but he never would have agreed to come back if certain assurances about the transfer window weren't made and looking at how the window played out, I don't think anyone could argue that it went even close to plan. We missed out on a lot of targets, 3 failed medicals (Lombaerts, Fer and Ramos) and most of the players who did come in hadn't played regular first team football in quite some time and were thus brought in too late in the window in order for them to get up to speed. The window was a disaster in all honesty and gave him no chance.

Dick is a very honest man, full of integrity. I think he knew that it wasn't going to get any better for him and thus he left giving someone else time to change it. He refused to take any sort of financial settlement (that he was entitled to), bought flowers for all non-playing staff and took the squad out for dinner on Thursday. A top man that didn't deserve to be let down the way he was. I'm sure Sunderland fans will never forget that night at Arsenal in May when he was in tears on the touchline and will rightly always think of him fondly.

As for what happens now. We'll it's back to square one yet again. I honestly think we're doomed to be honest as you can only play with fire for so long before eventually getting burned, but Allardyce would be my number one choice. **** pretty football, he has kept teams like us up in his sleep and would be the best choice given our situation IMO. That said, I don't know if he'd want to work under the current model (though is meeting with the board on Wednesday). Personally, I think we need a complete rebuild. It's clear there's a poison element in the club. Look at the team only bothering to turn up yesterday when it was know that it was Dick's last game. Scrap the Director of Football model because it has been an unmitigated disaster and just start again, similar to what West Ham and Newcastle did in recent times (with different models I know, but the point is the same).

I fear this is the season we get what we deserve (relegation), but we need a complete rebuild regardless. Man, this club breaks my heart. They really do not deserve the level of support we provide.

Tomagotchye

I wouldn't say he has integrity - even though I believe it was a solid call by him personally. Integrity would be seeing out the job he was assigned, trying to manage the players he was given and ultimately giving a **** about finishing the season.

Don't get me wrong, I think they were doomed from the start but 40% because he clearly had given up before they had started because of the transfer window which to be honest is a lazy excuse. It's like me giving up on CS because they decided to record calls. Pretty lazy excuse.

I think managers (and indeed players to a much larger extend) have too much of a scapegoat these days. I mean if you go 8 games without a win, why get paid? I wouldn't get paid for not hitting targets 8 days in a row. I'd get sacked. They should always have performance based contracts. None of this multi-millions crap which clearly makes a lot of them lazy. Same thing in Newcastle. Big wages, small hearts.

Paully D

Tomagotchye wrote: »

I wouldn't say he has integrity - even though I believe it was a solid call by him personally. Integrity would be seeing out the job he was assigned, trying to manage the players he was given and ultimately giving a **** about finishing the season.

Don't get me wrong, I think they were doomed from the start but 40% because he clearly had given up before they had started because of the transfer window which to be honest is a lazy excuse. It's like me giving up on CS because they decided to record calls. Pretty lazy excuse.

I think managers (and indeed players to a much larger extend) have too much of a scapegoat these days. I mean if you go 8 games without a win, why get paid? I wouldn't get paid for not hitting targets 8 days in a row. I'd get sacked. They should always have performance based contracts. None of this multi-millions crap which clearly makes a lot of them lazy. Same thing in Newcastle. Big wages, small hearts.

Personally I think there's more integrity in knowing that it's not going to work and walking away early, thus subsequently leaving a new man time to try and fix things as opposed to hanging on for a payoff but that's a matter of personal opinion I suppose.

I agree Sunderland were doomed from the start, but IMO it's 80% because they didn't recruit properly and 20% because most of the talented players at the club don't put in the graft.

With regards to the 20% - Sunderland should have been 4-0 up at half time against a side who had beaten Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool away from home, on Saturday. They went in at the break 2-1 up after playing the best half of football I can remember from them in years and managed to secure a 2-2 draw with 10 men against a side 6th in the league. Yet this performance came when the players knew it would be the last game the manager would be there for. This is the type of **** you're dealing with at this club.

With regards to the 80% - Advocaat himself said the club needed 6 or 7 quality players brought in when he left at the end of the last season. Sunderland started the new Premier League season with 9, yes 9, of the starting 11 consisting of players who scrapped over the line of survival for the 2nd year in the row. Most of the players Sunderland did sign were out of favour at their old clubs, brought in when the new season was already underway and for those reasons those players are trying to gel/get up to speed when the season has already started. Sunderland had a great start to the season fixture-wise and needed to hit the ground running. Their fixture list in December is horrendous and they just can't afford to be chasing their tail from the off. Thus, the early recruitment of players was absolutely vital and did not come even close to happening. Whatever way you look at it the club performed woefully in the transfer market. I agree that the transfer window going as it did knocked the stuffing out of him but it had every right to. The recruitment wasn't good enough and what was done was done far too late in the day. If it was a case of us only needing 2 or 3 players then fair enough, but when your squad is clearly so lacking then it's just not good enough. There's no doubt in my mind that Advocaat came back with assurances of what was going to be done in the window and those assurances weren't met.

He has every right to step down without having his integrity questioned IMO.

Gary Neville called it right today (paraphrasing) - "I'm sure the players will come out and say the new manager has given them a breath of fresh air etc etc, but I think they're a shower." That, coupled with a highly incompetent board who are exceptionally poor at recruitment is a recipe for disaster and the reason we are in this situation once again.

Doodee

Tomagotchye wrote: »

I mean if you go 8 games without a win, why get paid? I wouldn't get paid for not hitting targets 8 days in a row. I'd get sacked.

You would get paid and then sacked. If you put in the hours then you are entitled to payment, has nothing to do with the quality of work. Your employer sacking you is the sign of a competent employer who acknowledges the lack of quality in your work.

For Sunderland it appears that the board are not competent employers and are risking relegation in not backing the manager as they should have.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/651394260848119809

Nigel Pearson has been approached to take the job.

bucketybuck

Paully D wrote: »

With regards to the 80% - Advocaat himself said the club needed 6 or 7 quality players brought in when he left at the end of the last season.

To play devils advocaat though, how on earth are Sunderland supposed to get 6 or 7 quality players? They very much seem to be in the position where the only people who will go there are either not good enough or just mercenaries such as they already have.

Tomagotchye

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/651394260848119809

Nigel Pearson has been approached to take the job.

Bringung some steel to the Premier League. Loan move or cambiasso on the cards no doubt

Magico Gonzalez

I'd like to see Sunderland back in the top half of the table, as competitive sides... along with Newcastle. To do so you have to hope someone can come in and start to develop soild young prospects. To some extent it's happening at Leeds. Not sure Big Sam is the man for that, I suppose he would keep you up and that's got to be more important.

I will say that not everyone can play the same type of football, not every Spanish team plays tiki taki, not every Italian team presses and counters. Definitely room for a proper footballing identity to develop in the North East without trying to emulate Arsenal or any of the other London sides.

StringerBell

Big Same nailed on for the Anfield job now you gotta think with him missing out on the Sunderland job

Pearson I'm not a fan of, I can see Sunderland going down at last this season, and depending on what happens with the board then they could be gone a long time