Brendan Rodgers sacked.

Francie Barrett

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Lads, nobody cares.

Someone is wrong on the internet though :pac:

brevity

Knex. wrote: »

Aaaaanyway.

Liverpool have arranged a press conference/announcement for 5pm, apparently.

Not sure if that's true.... In my excitement I never checked the reliability of the source!

K-9

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

Klopp worked under a sporting director at BVB, he's used to it.

I'm getting mixed up, had tc in my last post!

martyos121

Knex. wrote: »

Aaaaanyway.

Liverpool have arranged a press conference/announcement for 5pm, apparently.

It isn't true unfortunately, it was a fake account that posted that tweet, check the username of it again if you see it.

Cantona's Collars

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

You've no idea how much control either had to be fair, neither do I. However from what I've read in the German media, Klopp obviously did have input into transfers at Dortmund but the main responsibility fell to Zorc.

And are you really trying to say Dortmund didn't buy prospects and sell them on for a few bob later too?

Even United did that,resale value was important.Liverpool's transfer committee seemed to base their strategy on watching Youtube and playing FIFA rather than actual scouting.

stiffler123

Reading through the last few pages just reminds me of this.

ERG89

Knex. wrote: »

Aaaaanyway.

Liverpool have arranged a press conference/announcement for 5pm, apparently.

And then it's Ancelloti

rob316

Just in case your living under a rock. That ****, overrated manager Jurgen Klopp is the new Liverpool manager. Can't believe he went to such a small club, could of hung around a bit and got the West Ham job

He'll never take over. People are deluded

Magico Gonzalez

rarnes1 wrote: »

He'll never take over. People are deluded

Sure, just a small club hiring a young inexperienced manager :pac:

martyos121

He's no Gary Megson.

Billy86

Hats off to Liverpool, I genuinely did not think they would be able to attract a manager of Klopps level - that has to be one of the bigger managerial coups in quite a while, and certainly explains the timing of Rodgers sacking. Disappointed as he would have been one of if not the best candidate to replace LVG at the end of next season for a number of reasons, but now that he is at Liverpool I can confidently say he is no better than Steve Staunton. Such an overrated spoofer, than Klopp!

Oat23

I don't know why anyone would be shocked at this. It's not that big a coup. It's Liverpool and Klopp. They are a match made in heaven.

Liverpool are a huge club with a high ceiling. If a side like Spurs managed to get him that would be a bit of a surprise.

Iused2likebusts

Oat23 wrote: »

I don't know why anyone would be shocked at this. It's not that big a coup. It's Liverpool and Klopp. They are a match made in heaven.

Liverpool are a huge club with a high ceiling. If a side like Spurs managed to get him that would be a bit of a surprise.

I also think it's far more likely a top class manager would go to Liverpool rather than a top class player. Players careers are a lot shorter than managers so they may not want a couple of seasons out of CL. Klopp also can remember the days when Liverpool were one of the best around no current player can. Kloop maybe views liverpool in a different light than a lot of younger people . At the end of the day Liverpool aren't that far behind the top 4 but with a stadium due to be extended and a decent squad there is definetly the potential to break into it. I personally think it would be a clever move by Klopp.

murpho999

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I also think it's far more likely a top class manager would go to Liverpool rather than a top class player. Players careers are a lot shorter than managers so they may not want a couple of seasons out of CL. Klopp also can remember the days when Liverpool were one of the best around no current player can. Kloop maybe views liverpool in a different light than a lot of younger people . At the end of the day Liverpool aren't that far behind the top 4 but with a stadium due to be extended and a decent squad there is definetly the potential to break into it. I personally think it would be a clever move by Klopp.

So how did the likes of Coutinho, Suarez etc sign for Liverpool then?

Magico Gonzalez

murpho999 wrote: »

So how did the likes of Coutinho, Suarez etc sign for Liverpool then?

in fairness both were prospects for greatness when they joined rather than big name players, the transfer fees reflect that.

Iused2likebusts

murpho999 wrote: »

So how did the likes of Coutinho, Suarez etc sign for Liverpool then?

They weren't the players they are now before they signed

Billy86

Oat23 wrote: »

I don't know why anyone would be shocked at this. It's not that big a coup. It's Liverpool and Klopp. They are a match made in heaven.

Liverpool are a huge club with a high ceiling. If a side like Spurs managed to get him that would be a bit of a surprise.

There is a major issue for Liverpool in terms of finances - trying to compete with City, United and Chelsea consistently is going to be very, very difficult for them. Added to that, the squad needs a lot of work - transfers were probably Rodgers biggest Achilles heel. I would have reckoned he could have gone to a number of bigger and/or richer clubs, possibly even Chelsea depending on how this season continues, so in that regard it absolutely is a massive coup. If I were a Liverpool fan, I would be over the moon.

citytillidie

This thread

Flint Fredstone

Resurrect it, that's the way to sort it out alright.
I think some people are only happy when they've something to moan about.

Streetwalker

Klopp is no fool. Go to Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern, City etc.. and win the title and it's just all a bit meh . Do that at Liverpool and you are an instant legend.

gosplan

Streetwalker wrote: »

Klopp is no fool. Go to Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern, City etc.. and win the title and it's just all a bit meh . Do that at Liverpool and you are an instant legend.

I don't think he's doing it for legend status.

I think he was genuine in the press conference when he said it's not just about spending.

He'll be happy to build a team at a club with an appetite for football. Not being compelled to sell all his good players will be big for him.

nice_guy80

gosplan wrote: »

I don't think he's doing it for legend status.

I think he was genuine in the press conference when he said it's not just about spending.

He'll be happy to build a team at a club with an appetite for football. Not being compelled to sell all his good players will be big for him.

If there's one thing Liverpool are good at, it's spending money
Usually on dross

gosplan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If there's one thing Liverpool are good at, it's spending money
Usually on dross

Yeah but now they've got a guy who signed Hummells, Gundogan, Reus and Lewandowski for a combined 25 million.

He also seems to have that Wenger/Fergie knack of getting players to be better than they are.

K-9

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah but now they've got a guy who signed Hummells, Gundogan, Reus and Lewandowski for a combined 25 million.

He also seems to have that Wenger/Fergie knack of getting players to be better than they are.

He's a draw definitely, I'd say a couple of the players we missed out on would have given us more consideration at least with a Klopp as manager. Press reports say Mikalytan! went to Dortmund because of him despite us offering better terms. CL and being champions did no harm either, but I don't think you can dismiss his pull either.

Sand

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah but now they've got a guy who signedHummells, Gundogan, Reus and Lewandowski for a combined 25 million.

Dortmund signed them being able to offer almost guaranteed CL football (with a final appearance in 2013) and a title challenge every season. Klopp was one of the team that scouted them and signed them, he doesn't have that team at Liverpool and he wont be able to offer those terms at Liverpool. I would consider it very difficult for him to replicate it at Liverpool - the transfer committee hasn't gone away you know.

Klopp is a draw, but the draw of a manager can be overstated. Did Suarez move to Barelona to work with Luis Enrique? A manager can be the final 5% in a players decision, but the other 95% - money, CL football, titles and medals, players already in the squad, location...that doesn't change.

JohnDaniels

blueser

Streetwalker wrote: »

Klopp is no fool. Go to Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern, City etc.. and win the title and it's just all a bit meh . Do that at Liverpool and you are an instant legend.

No idea where you get that idea from. Mancini is still worshipped among a large section of City fans for his achievements at the club, most notably winning our first league title in 44 years. That title in 2012 was special to us, not only because of that long drought, but also, the way we won it and who we pipped to the league. But the second title in 2014 (and any we may pick up in the future) is in no way "meh" to us fans. We put up with enough sh1te in the 80's/90's/early 00's to treasure what bit of success we're having now.

Iused2likebusts

Sand wrote: »

Dortmund signed them being able to offer almost guaranteed CL football (with a final appearance in 2013) and a title challenge every season. Klopp was one of the team that scouted them and signed them, he doesn't have that team at Liverpool and he wont be able to offer those terms at Liverpool. I would consider it very difficult for him to replicate it at Liverpool - the transfer committee hasn't gone away you know.

Klopp is a draw, but the draw of a manager can be overstated. Did Suarez move to Barelona to work with Luis Enrique? A manager can be the final 5% in a players decision, but the other 95% - money, CL football, titles and medals, players already in the squad, location...that doesn't change.

Your old mate David moyes didn't seem to be much of a draw for getting players in.

SlickRic

Sand wrote: »

Dortmund signed them being able to offer almost guaranteed CL football (with a final appearance in 2013) and a title challenge every season. Klopp was one of the team that scouted them and signed them, he doesn't have that team at Liverpool and he wont be able to offer those terms at Liverpool. I would consider it very difficult for him to replicate it at Liverpool - the transfer committee hasn't gone away you know.

Klopp is a draw, but the draw of a manager can be overstated. Did Suarez move to Barelona to work with Luis Enrique? A manager can be the final 5% in a players decision, but the other 95% - money, CL football, titles and medals, players already in the squad, location...that doesn't change.

Your ability to articulate makes your argument sound better than it is.

Klopp was guaranteed none of that upon arriving at Dortmund with the shape they were in.

Suarez moves to Spain as it was his career goal to get to Barca or Madrid. Of course certain clubs are a bigger draw than Klopp at Liverpool. That's obvious. Nobody thinks he'll guarantee us world class players.

But his appointment makes it slightly more likely that we'll get one or 2. He'll also cause some talented players to consider us a step in their career.

Also, the fact you thought Moyes was our best option shows what you're really trying to do tbh. And that's ok. I don't expect a Utd fan to be happy with Klopp being at Liverpool, and I do expect some of their fans to pick any flaw they can.

Sand

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Your old mate David moyes didn't seem to be much of a draw for getting players in.

He signed Mata. Or to be more correct, Manchester United signed Mata.

Iused2likebusts

Sand wrote: »

He signed Mata. Or to be more correct, Manchester United signed Mata.

do you think di maria, falcao and schweinsteiger would have signed for utd if moyes was in charge

Allyall

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

do you think di maria, falcao and schweinsteiger would have signed for utd if moyes was in charge

Would Fellaini have signed if LVG was in charge?
:pac:

Sand

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

do you think di maria, falcao and schweinsteiger would have signed for utd if moyes was in charge

None of those players are good examples for the point you are trying to make. All of them needed a move from their previous circumstances. Real is signing players despite Benitez being in charge. Barcelona is signing players despite Luis Enrique in charge. So no, I don't think Moyes would play a big role in their thinking given their circumstances, the status of United as a club and the money United was offering. Schweinsteiger in particular liked the club as well.

The problem with Moyes was not his profile in the game. It was that he didn't deliver CL football which was written into his contract as a minimum expectation. Much the same as Klopp failed to deliver CL football in his last season with Dortmund.

United signed Mata with Moyes in place. United were in the race to sign Kroos with Moyes in place - the pursuit ended after Moyes was sacked. Now maybe that was because CL football was gone (hence Moyes sacked) so Kroos was no longer interested. But Moyes being in place didn't prevent a pursuit of one of the best central midfielders in the game and the signing of one of the most coveted attacking midfielders in the EPL.

And on the other hand, I've already seen a story that Klopp is going to bring Lewandowski to Liverpool. Now that's clearly tabloid rubbish, but it also highlights that Klopp *had* Lewandowski and wasn't able to *keep* him by sheer brand name and personality alone. The effect of the managers profile is overstated. Ferguson had a massive profile and wasn't able to get players like Shearer or keep a player like Ronaldo, for example.

K-9

Clubs have limited finances, and very few players can resist the top 3 clubs in the world. Bayern is a huge draw for German and East European players, plus buying your rivals best players has added benefits!

Kirby

Sand wrote: »

None of those players are good examples for the point you are trying to make. All of them needed a move from their previous circumstances. Real is signing players despite Benitez being in charge. Barcelona is signing players despite Luis Enrique in charge. So no, I don't think Moyes would play a big role in their thinking given their circumstances, the status of United as a club and the money United was offering. Schweinsteiger in particular liked the club as well.

The problem with Moyes was not his profile in the game. It was that he didn't deliver CL football which was written into his contract as a minimum expectation. Much the same as Klopp failed to deliver CL football in his last season with Dortmund.

United signed Mata with Moyes in place. United were in the race to sign Kroos with Moyes in place - the pursuit ended after Moyes was sacked. Now maybe that was because CL football was gone (hence Moyes sacked) so Kroos was no longer interested. But Moyes being in place didn't prevent a pursuit of one of the best central midfielders in the game and the signing of one of the most coveted attacking midfielders in the EPL.

And on the other hand, I've already seen a story that Klopp is going to bring Lewandowski to Liverpool. Now that's clearly tabloid rubbish, but it also highlights that Klopp *had* Lewandowski and wasn't able to *keep* him by sheer brand name and personality alone. The effect of the managers profile is overstated. Ferguson had a massive profile and wasn't able to get players like Shearer or keep a player like Ronaldo, for example.

People are getting carried away with the impact a manager can have regarding recruitment. There are limits to it. I agree with you. You make good points.

But you can;t say their arent exceptions. Arsene Wenger has a world wide reputation and several of Arsenals signings have stated their conversations with him convinced them to join the club. Ferguson also had a bit of a silver tongue with the players. He signed lot's of players out of left field and didnt he convince Ronaldo to stay an extra season? And sure didnt he string Paul Pogba along for years with promises that he never fulfilled?

The players listened to what he said because he was Alex Ferguson. I'm sure certain players feel the same way about Pep at Barca and now Bayern. Some managers are better at "finessing" players than others.

8-10

I think this time next year is when you can start judging the players that Klopp is able to attract. It's pure speculation right now, 1 Jan and 1 summer transfer window and then maybe we can revist this thread and comparison to other managers

JohnDaniels

Real is signing players despite Benitez being in charge.

The guy who attracted Torres, Alonso, Reina etc to Liverpool. The guy who is thought of extremely highly in Spain. The guy who has a couple of league titles in Spain with clubs that aren't Barcelona/Madrid. The guy who wouldn't be able to work with Ronaldo despite him now scoring for fun. You really can only laugh at the absolute idiocy that some fans have as a result of the club they support.

Flint Fredstone

JohnDaniels wrote: »

The guy who attracted Torres, Alonso, Reina etc to Liverpool. The guy who is thought of extremely highly in Spain. The guy who has a couple of league titles in Spain with clubs that aren't Barcelona/Madrid. The guy who wouldn't be able to work with Ronaldo despite him now scoring for fun. You really can only laugh at the absolute idiocy that some fans have as a result of the club they support.

Were Torres, Alonso and Reina that big of a coup at the time? Liverpool was probably a step up for them really.

Quazzie

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Were Torres, Alonso and Reina that big of a coup at the time? Liverpool was probably a step up for them really.

I think you are vastly over rating Liverpool to be honest. Torres came from Athletico where he was highly regarded and scored at will. Reina came from Villareal where they qualified for the UCL and reached the quarters of the Uefa Cup. Alonso was playing in the latter stages of the UCL and was being touted to Real.

If anything it sounds like Liverpool was a step down.

Sand

Kirby wrote: »

But you can;t say their arent exceptions. Arsene Wenger has a world wide reputation and several of Arsenals signings have stated their conversations with him convinced them to join the club. Ferguson also had a bit of a silver tongue with the players. He signed lot's of players out of left field and didnt he convince Ronaldo to stay an extra season? And sure didnt he string Paul Pogba along for years with promises that he never fulfilled?

The players listened to what he said because he was Alex Ferguson. I'm sure certain players feel the same way about Pep at Barca and now Bayern. Some managers are better at "finessing" players than others.

Agreed, and I don't want to say Klopp is inconsequential. He isn't. I am genuinely surprised he went to Liverpool, and its great for Liverpool that he did. But I think while Klopp is a positive in that regard, the manager is not the be all and end all for a player picking their next club. Otherwise Shearer would be a United legend and Ronaldo (and Pogba) would still be turning out for the club today.

Klopp is definitely the extra 5% to get a deal done, but that has to be weighed against money, location, CL football and players. 5% of not much is still not much. If Liverpool are going to punch above their weight in signing players ready to make an impact, this season is hugely important to convince players next summer that Liverpool are on the up. Otherwise Liverpool will still be trying to sign undervalued players CL clubs don't need or want as much, and hope they develop into CL material. That is a tough game.

JohnDaniels wrote: »

The guy who attracted Torres, Alonso, Reina etc to Liverpool. The guy who is thought of extremely highly in Spain. The guy who has a couple of league titles in Spain with clubs that aren't Barcelona/Madrid. The guy who wouldn't be able to work with Ronaldo despite him now scoring for fun. You really can only laugh at the absolute idiocy that some fans have as a result of the club they support.

I'm not going to debate the profile of Benitez as a manager. He has a great following in Liverpool and you won a CL with him. That's all that should matter to you.

I will point out that Liverpool were regular Champions League qualifiers when Torres and Alonso were signed. I think Benitez's familiarity with Spain meant those players were targeted, but I don't think Benitez himself was a key factor in the players decision making.

Quazzie wrote: »

I think you are vastly over rating Liverpool to be honest. Torres came from Athletico where he was highly regarded and scored at will. Reina came from Villareal where they qualified for the UCL and reached the quarters of the Uefa Cup. Alonso was playing in the latter stages of the UCL and was being touted to Real.

If anything it sounds like Liverpool was a step down.

Liverpool had money, regular CL football, status as a club, and some very good players in their squad at the time. Liverpool would not have been a step down for any of them.

The problem for Klopp is that he doesn't have those selling points today.

And with the danger of England losing the 4th CL spot, the difficulty of regaining that regular CL football spot grows all the harder. No players go north of London for the weather.

That's a threat for all the northern clubs, including United.

Streetwalker

Jesus the Benitez debate. Of course he's rubbish that's why since he left Liverpool, Inter Milan Chelsea and Madrid had him as manager. Obvious innit.

SM01

Quazzie wrote: »

I think you are vastly over rating Liverpool to be honest. Torres came from Athletico where he was highly regarded and scored at will. Reina came from Villareal where they qualified for the UCL and reached the quarters of the Uefa Cup. Alonso was playing in the latter stages of the UCL and was being touted to Real.

If anything it sounds like Liverpool was a step down.

And you're vastly UNDERRATING Liverpool of that era. Did they not win the champions league in 2005, prior to the signing of Torres and Reina? AND reach a champions league final a couple of seasons later. That wasn't a fluke by any means.

Sand

Streetwalker wrote: »

Jesus the Benitez debate. Of course he's rubbish that's why since he left Liverpool, Inter Milan Chelsea and Madrid had him as manager. Obvious innit.

Who said he was rubbish?

But if you want to talk about his profile he was appointed Inter Milan manager on June 10th 2010, and sacked by the then European Champions on Dec 23rd of the same year.

With Chelsea, he was appointed Nov 21 2012 and left in May 2013 - having already had a rant in February 2013 where he said he would leave the club at the end of the season.

And at Real...well, Ancelotti has a bigger profile with most players and most people expect Benitez to be gone by this time next year, regardless of how well he does.

You're associating his name to clubs where he spent a total time of what? 14-15 months and counting? Who needs the association more to build their profile? I don't see his profile being as big to most players as it would be to a Liverpool fan. I get that a Liverpool fan will never entertain the idea that Benitez does anything other than walk on water given the CL win, but try to acknowledge that players might not think the same way.

monkey9

Quazzie wrote: »

I think you are vastly over rating Liverpool to be honest. Torres came from Athletico where he was highly regarded and scored at will. Reina came from Villareal where they qualified for the UCL and reached the quarters of the Uefa Cup. Alonso was playing in the latter stages of the UCL and was being touted to Real.

If anything it sounds like Liverpool was a step down.

Oh wow.

Torres left Atletico Madrid for Liverpool who won the Champions League in 2005 and who, two years later, reached the Champions League final again. It was that 2007 summer when Torres signed on at Anfield.

Reina signed for Liverpool when we were European Champions.

Xabi Alonso signed in 2004 at the start of the Rafa era from Real Sociedad.

They all took a step up.

Harry Palmr

Quazzie wrote: »

I think you are vastly over rating Liverpool to be honest. Torres came from Athletico where he was highly regarded and scored at will. Reina came from Villareal where they qualified for the UCL and reached the quarters of the Uefa Cup. Alonso was playing in the latter stages of the UCL and was being touted to Real.

If anything it sounds like Liverpool was a step down.

[facepalm].....

JohnDaniels

Sand wrote: »

I'm not going to debate the profile of Benitez as a manager. He has a great following in Liverpool and you won a CL with him. That's all that should matter to you.

I will point out that Liverpool were regular Champions League qualifiers when Torres and Alonso were signed. I think Benitez's familiarity with Spain meant those players were targeted, but I don't think Benitez himself was a key factor in the players decision making.

I won't include his achievements before Liverpool because it will make the list too long.

Three Champions League Semi Finals
Two Champions League Finals
One Champions League Win
CL qualification in all but one season.
FA Cup win.
A title challenge.
Europa League Semi final.
League cup final lost to Chelsea.
The number one rated team in Europe for most of his tenure.

You are mentally ill if you think Bentiez isn't idolised for anything but his achievements as a manager. Players aren't as stupid as fans and recognise they can and will win things under him.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

I get that a Liverpool fan will never entertain the idea that Benitez does anything other than walk on water given the CL win, but try to acknowledge that players might not think the same way.

JohnDaniels wrote: »

I won't include his achievements before Liverpool because it will make the list too long...You are mentally ill if you think Bentiez isn't idolised for anything but his achievements as a manager...

I think I acknowledged Benitez is idolised by Liverpool fans for his achievements.

JohnDaniels

Sand wrote: »

I think I acknowledged Benitez is idolised by Liverpool fans for his achievements.

Oh and pretty much every player that signed for Benitez has a story like this . . .

"I was having one of the best seasons of my career at Villarreal and Liverpool made an offer for me in the springtime. They met with my agent and Benitez, being the annoying - in a good way - manager that he is, rang me every single day to convince me to make the move. Every morning when I was on my way to training my phone would ring and before I even answered it I would know who it was.

"'Pepe, it is Rafa,' the daily conversation would begin. 'Things are the same as yesterday. I do not want to bother you because I know you need to focus on qualifying for the Champions League with Villarreal, but I just need to tell you that we are really keen to sign you and we are working very hard to make it happen.'

"I even ended up playing a part in the negotiations for my own transfer because Rafa was asking me to ask Villarreal if they could lower their asking price! He also asked me if I could get my agent to reduce my wage demands! It was an unusual situation but I just had to laugh about it. I was really grateful to Rafa because he wanted to take me to Liverpool so much. He gave me that opportunity, the chance of a lifetime. If I had to put up with a few phone calls and being asked to negotiate lower wages for myself then so be it. That's just Rafa.

Sand

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Oh and pretty much every player that signed for Benitez has a story like this . . .

he wanted to take me to Liverpool so much. He gave me that opportunity, the chance of a lifetime. If I had to put up with a few phone calls and being asked to negotiate lower wages for myself then so be it. That's just Rafa.

Liverpool was the draw. Rafa was the funny story.