Ireland v France [build up thread]

thebaz

next weeks game is biggest game for Ireland for 4 years, and after today it is obvious that a serious improvement is needed if we are to progress - the problems for me are in midfield and the back row , yet we need stability to win , here would be my attempt of a team that hopefully get us over the line -

R. Kearney
T Bowe
Henshaw
Pane
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Murray

Healy
Best
Ross
O'Connel
Henderson
O'Brien
Heaslip
POM

Would drop Heaslip, but no real alternative no. 8 now, would switch SOB to his more natural position, but would be harsh on POM - Toner really unlucky to miss out on my team

CurryFlavoured

Earls for Fitz and we're on the same page, provided Healy's up to it to.

Heaslip has started every game and played every minute (I think) until now, and won't get a break from here on in. That's a problem that we shouldn't really have.

aimee1

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Earls for Fitz and we're on the same page, provided Healy's up to it to.

Heaslip has started every game and played every minute (I think) until now, and won't get a break from here on in. That's a problem that we shouldn't really have.

was Heaslip taken off last week about the hour mark ?


think the team will be
Kearney, Bowe, Henshaw, Payne, Earls, Sexton, Murray
McGrath, Best, Ross, OConnell, Henderson, POM, SOB, Heaslip,

hurleronditch

thebaz wrote: »

next weeks game is biggest game for Ireland for 4 years, and after today it is obvious that a serious improvement is needed if we are to progress - the problems for me are in midfield and the back row , yet we need stability to win , here would be my attempt of a team that hopefully get us over the line -

R. Kearney
T Bowe
Henshaw
Pane
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Murray

Healy
Best
Ross
O'Connel
Henderson
O'Brien
Heaslip
POM

Would drop Heaslip, but no real alternative no. 8 now, would switch SOB to his more natural position, but would be harsh on POM - Toner really unlucky to miss out on my team

I don't see Fitzgerald getting in. He hasn't played on the wing yet in the world cup, and there's three wings playing very good rugby. Fitzgerald is perfect for 23. Other than that you're spot on if say.

Nib

Worst match thread OP write-up ever!

dodderangler

Il give Murray 10 mins and if he kicks the way he did today I'd take him off. Stupid ridiculous loss of possession and him at fault for a lot of it. Instead of running the backs he kicks. Just gave the Italians more ball possession

CurryFlavoured

aimee1 wrote: »

was Heaslip taken off last week about the hour mark ?


think the team will be
Kearney, Bowe, Henshaw, Payne, Earls, Sexton, Murray
McGrath, Best, Ross, OConnell, Henderson, POM, SOB, Heaslip,

20 minute break or not Heaslip has been overplayed. Every other starting 15 player has had a game off iirc, as is the case with most teams.

phog

Ireland's player of the tournament so far has been Earls and you're dropping him.

duckysauce

Cronin should start , hit them hard and early , Earls has to be starting himself and Hendo are the standout Irish players so far .

Flipper22

phog wrote: »

Ireland's player of the tournament so far has been Earls and you're dropping him.

I'm not sure there's much point in talking about player of the tournament yet given we've had one serious game and played poorly, but fwiw it'd be Henderson for me. Earls wasn't good today I didn't think, though granted I haven't watched it back yet so maybe that's harsh.

Irish_rat

Heres my team wouldnt happen though :pac:

---

Kearney R

---

DKearney

---

Earls

---

Henshaw ,Payne

---

---

Sexton

---

---

Murray

---

--- Heaslip

---

Henry --- Hendo

---

POC

---

Toner

---

Ross

---

Best

---

McGrath

DDC1990

Earls is averaging a try per WC game.

Would be mad to leave him out.

Fitz has shown nothing to suggest he'll be in the 23. I was hoping to see him at 13 yesterday for a lot longer than he got.

phog

Flipper22 wrote: »

I'm not sure there's much point in talking about player of the tournament yet given we've had one serious game and played poorly, but fwiw it'd be Henderson for me. Earls wasn't good today I didn't think, though granted I haven't watched it back yet so maybe that's harsh.

I did say player of the tournament so far , they can only play what's in front of them and yes he has contenders and Henderson could equally be that player.

Midi Olympique named both of them in their team of the weekend. The only Irish players named. Yet, some folk are for dropping both of them. I'd have both on my starting team.

.ak

Nib wrote: »

Worst match thread OP write-up ever!

It's just a build up thread. Thomond2006 is doing the preview, presumably when teams are announced

total former

I think personnel changes will be minimal. Fitzgerald only getting 5 minutes yesterday wasn't a good omen.

Payne will come back, Earls to the wing leaving DK and Bowe to scrap it out. Neither set tyre world on fire yesterday, on recent form it's DK all the way, but I think Joe will plump for Bowe.

The only other decision then is McGrath vs Healy; I'd go with McGrath. Can't see Toner forcing his way back in.

frostyjacks

I think Payne in for Earls will be the only change, rest of the squad picks itself.

Our odds to go all the way haven't changed, even with England out and S. Africa looking a bit ropey. Would be worth putting your money down now before we put France to the sword and the bookies realise we're a sure thing.

All My Stars Aligned

Am I missing something re DK. Don't see why he should start ahead of KE.

Clegg

Newstalk had George Hook on this morning. According to him Schmidt doesn't know who his first choice centre partnership is, Ireland have the wrong scrum half on the pitch and Sean o'Brien is finished. Also raised questions about Schmidt's coaching ability. I suppose he was trying to set himself out as a maverick going against the concencus, but to me it sounded like someone very bitter that he got it so wrong about the coach 5 years ago and who has been waiting years to stick the boot it at the slightest of stumbles.

Sanjuro

Clegg wrote: »

Newstalk had George Hook on this morning. According to him Schmidt doesn't know who his first choice centre partnership is, Ireland have the wrong scrum half on the pitch and Sean o'Brien is finished. Also raised questions about Schmidt's coaching ability. I suppose he was trying to set himself out as a maverick going against the concencus, but to me it sounded like someone very bitter that he got it so wrong about the coach 5 years ago and who has been waiting years to stick the boot it at the slightest of stumbles.

Hook is nothing but a troll. His actual knowledge of the game stops at around 1974. Anything after that and he's bluffing. He's an ignorant blowhard and he's only on Newstalk as he works for the station anyway. Thank god he's no longer on RTE and we can get through a Six Nations without his guff taking time from people who actually know what they're talking about.

.ak

There can't be any messing with the lineup at this stage. Anyone advocating changes are mad; Joe has always been about building continuity and you don't do that by making changes.

Unfortunately our centre partnership hasn't been able to gel because our first choices have been injured. If George hook can't be bothered to read the injury updates then how can he call himself a pundit? Usual fare from the waffler. Henshaw and Payne are first choice, but it's been very unfortunate they haven't had a chance to play together.

All fit and firing the XV for France has to be;

Kearney
Bowe
Payne
Henshaw
Earls/DK
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
POM
Hendo/Toner
POC
Ross
Best
McGrath

Cronin
Healy
White
Toner/Hendo
Henry
Reddan
Madigan
Fitzgerald

The only dubious calls are the wings. They're all in good form, Bowe isn't great but I think his size and big game experience will get him in there. Then there's earls who's arguable been the best back of the tournament. However I'm still a bit worried he's blowing hot n cold. I thought Dave looked sharp last night and seems to fit the plan well. Wouldn't be surprised if he pips earls there.

Toner or Hendo? Depends on how we approach the game. Toner's value in the set pieces was evident yesterday. Will we try and win the game there? Or do we want to break the gain line?

23 jersey is also up for grabs, but I reckon Fitzgerald provides the best cover especially if we need to switch to a defensive shift later in the game.

Akrasia

.ak wrote: »

There can't be any messing with the lineup at this stage. Anyone advocating changes are mad; Joe has always been about building continuity and you don't do that by making changes.

Unfortunately our centre partnership hasn't been able to gel because our first choices have been injured. If George hook can't be bothered to read the injury updates then how can he call himself a pundit? Usual fare from the waffler. Henshaw and Payne are first choice, but it's been very unfortunate they haven't had a chance to play together.

All fit and firing the XV for France has to be;

Kearney
Bowe
Payne
Henshaw
Earls/DK
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
POM
Hendo/Toner
POC
Ross
Best
McGrath

Cronin
Healy
White
Toner/Hendo
Henry
Reddan
Madigan
Fitzgerald

The only dubious calls are the wings. They're all in good form, Bowe isn't great but I think his size and big game experience will get him in there. Then there's earls who's arguable been the best back of the tournament. However I'm still a bit worried he's blowing hot n cold. I thought Dave looked sharp last night and seems to fit the plan well. Wouldn't be surprised if he pips earls there.

Toner or Hendo? Depends on how we approach the game. Toner's value in the set pieces was evident yesterday. Will we try and win the game there? Or do we want to break the gain line?

23 jersey is also up for grabs, but I reckon Fitzgerald provides the best cover especially if we need to switch to a defensive shift later in the game.

I think Earls on the wing has been outstanding since his return from injury. He's not as good in the centre but that's where he's needed sometimes.

I hope Payne is fit for France to free up Earls for the wing and partner him with Dave Kearney with Rob at Full back.

I think Dave Kearney has been on better form than Bowe and he has performed more far more consistently

Henderson has really claimed his Jersey but toner is a nice option from the bench

razorblunt

The above would be my thinking too.

I'd trust Heaslip and Murray not to have two bad back to back games.

My team V France

Kearney
Bowe
Payne
Henshaw
D Kearney
Sexton
Murray

McGrath
Best
Ross
POC
Toner
POM
SOB
Heaslip

Bench
Healy
Cronin
White
Henderson
Henry
Reddan
Madigan
Earls

Reasoning:
We start with a physical team that can shut down France's attack and put their back three under pressure. We go with our kicking game but most likely see a bit more from our ball in hand play as it's time to use the play book.

Earls isn't a centre however is thus far our best attacking back. He has also however been our most error prone bar maybe Bowe.

Bowe seems in control of the jersey and is better in the air than Earls, as is DKearney hence those choices.

Toner again is more about set piece solidity and as we look to play a disciplined game giving away as few points as possible to France and leading them into half time primarily through penalties and on again into the final 3rd.

Bring on the bench to close France out with Earls, Henderson, Healy Cronin running at France for 20 minutes and then 10 minutes of defending at the end.

P_1

.ak wrote: »

It's just a build up thread. Thomond2006 is doing the preview, presumably when teams are announced

No pressure on Thomond so...

Otacon

My team.

R Kearney
K Earls
J Payne
R Henshaw
D Kearney
J Sexton
C Murray
J Heaslip
S O'Brien
P O'Mahony
I Henderson
P O'Connell
M Ross
R Best
J McGrath

S Cronin
C Healy
N White
D Ryan
C Henry
E Reddan
I Madigan
L Fitzgerald

I don't believe Bowe is playing well enough to be included. Earls and Kearney have to start IMO as both have been excellent so far.

I would also have Henderson starting as he is superb around the park and at ruck time. Ryan is simply a better sub lock than Toner too.

gamma001

dodderangler wrote: »

Il give Murray 10 mins and if he kicks the way he did today I'd take him off. Stupid ridiculous loss of possession and him at fault for a lot of it. Instead of running the backs he kicks. Just gave the Italians more ball possession

The gameplan yesterday seemed permit Murray to kick more often than normal and in some cases even kicking unconstatables. That coupled with a slow line speed seems to suggest that the main plan was to avoid injuries and get the win presuming that Italy didn't have the attack to trouble us, which turned out to be the case.

molloyjh

McGrath Best Ross
Toner POC
POM Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Payne
Earls Kearney Bowe/Kearney

Cronin, Healy, White, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Zebo

Toner for set piece. Bowe and Kearney jnr are neck and neck at 14 for me. It all depends on who is performing better in training at this point, which we won't see. Healy could possibly step in for McGrath but I think that's too much of a risk at this point. Maybe from the QF on. Zebo gets the bench as it ensures complete back line cover.

stephen_n

duckysauce wrote: »

Cronin should start , hit them hard and early , Earls has to be starting himself and Hendo are the standout Irish players so far .

Best was outstanding yesterday and probably our best performing forward, why on earth would you replace him, just for ball carrying.

Clegg wrote: »

Newstalk had George Hook on this morning. According to him Schmidt doesn't know who his first choice centre partnership is, Ireland have the wrong scrum half on the pitch and Sean o'Brien is finished. Also raised questions about Schmidt's coaching ability. I suppose he was trying to set himself out as a maverick going against the concencus, but to me it sounded like someone very bitter that he got it so wrong about the coach 5 years ago and who has been waiting years to stick the boot it at the slightest of stumbles.

The man should have his picture in the dictionary beside clueless.

kuang1

Otacon wrote: »

My team.

R Kearney
K Earls
J Payne
R Henshaw
D Kearney
J Sexton
C Murray
J Heaslip
S O'Brien
P O'Mahony
I Henderson
P O'Connell
M Ross
R Best
J McGrath

S Cronin
C Healy
N White
D Ryan
C Henry
E Reddan
I Madigan
L Fitzgerald

I don't believe Bowe is playing well enough to be included. Earls and Kearney have to start IMO as both have been excellent so far.

I would also have Henderson starting as he is superb around the park and at ruck time. Ryan is simply a better sub lock than Toner too.

This is exactly my 1st choice too. Henderson (from memory)has yet to fall off a tackle this year in a green jersey. He's an absolute fukking pest.
I would have his babies if he asked.

noway12345

Not resting Heaslip or Earls could come back to bite us. We haven't been picking teams with winning the World Cup in mind. I think we missed a big opportunity to try Fitzgerald at 12 with Henshaw at 13 yesterday. If Payne doesn't recover we'll have to go with Henshaw and Earls in the centre again. Earls definitely has to start as he's lethal. Bowe starts ahead of Kearney as he outplayed him yesterday and is far more dangerous in the air. Since one of our go to tactics is the up and under he must start.
Henderson has to start, Toner is better in the line out but we're going well their anyway. Henderson offers way more in other areas of the game. He could be moved to 6 but O'Mahony is needed at the breakdown. McGrath has to start as Healy isn't sharp enough but him and Cronin are great impact subs. The rest of the team picks itself.
Schmidt has done an excellent job with Ireland, more than excellent in fact. I don't agree with what Hook has to say but I do think that Joe has got it wrong for this World Cup. Everyone was expecting him to have loads of new moves planned and put into action. We are stuck playing a very limited game. Kick and chase, the loop around move, maul, that's basically the extent of it. At the top level a team so predictable will be easy to stop. Also he hasn't rested players with the latter stages of the World Cup in mind.
We'll fire in to France, give it a good go but I don't think we'll have enough. It's wishful thinking to hope we have new moves saved for this match. We're going to play exactly the same as we did against Italy but are hoping we perform better and more effectively. I really hope that's enough but I'm doubting it and to be honest I can see similarities with previous World Cups in that the players seem a bit flat and out of form.

total former

noway12345 wrote: »

Not resting Heaslip or Earls could come back to bite us.

One of the back-rowers had to play all the games, since we only brought five with us. On that basis, it had to be Heaslip, rather than POM or SOB.

Earls could have been rested but it's not like he's in a particularly physical position, he'll be grand.

jimneill

ireland will up their performance, whether it is enough to beat them who knows.

tbh i cant see us beating new zealand or argentina in the QF

heybaby

noway12345 wrote: »

Not resting Heaslip or Earls could come back to bite us. We haven't been picking teams with winning the World Cup in mind. I think we missed a big opportunity to try Fitzgerald at 12 with Henshaw at 13 yesterday. If Payne doesn't recover we'll have to go with Henshaw and Earls in the centre again. Earls definitely has to start as he's lethal. Bowe starts ahead of Kearney as he outplayed him yesterday and is far more dangerous in the air. Since one of our go to tactics is the up and under he must start.
Henderson has to start, Toner is better in the line out but we're going well their anyway. Henderson offers way more in other areas of the game. He could be moved to 6 but O'Mahony is needed at the breakdown. McGrath has to start as Healy isn't sharp enough but him and Cronin are great impact subs. The rest of the team picks itself.
Schmidt has done an excellent job with Ireland, more than excellent in fact. I don't agree with what Hook has to say but I do think that Joe has got it wrong for this World Cup. Everyone was expecting him to have loads of new moves planned and put into action. We are stuck playing a very limited game. Kick and chase, the loop around move, maul, that's basically the extent of it. At the top level a team so predictable will be easy to stop. Also he hasn't rested players with the latter stages of the World Cup in mind.
We'll fire in to France, give it a good go but I don't think we'll have enough. It's wishful thinking to hope we have new moves saved for this match. We're going to play exactly the same as we did against Italy but are hoping we perform better and more effectively. I really hope that's enough but I'm doubting it and to be honest I can see similarities with previous World Cups in that the players seem a bit flat and out of form.

Id have to agree with this. I think we are way too predictable and devoid of ideas with the ball in hand. There seems to be very little imagination in this side when it comes to getting across the gain line, there's very little penetration and it comes down to our refusal to play an offloading game. The Irish should watch the Japanese for inspiration, because they do it beautifully. I mention the Japanese because if a tier 2 side can see the importance of adopting a rugby fundamental like offloading then surely irekand should be doing it too?

Offloading keeps the ball alive, keeps our momentum up and keeps the opposition guessing. The way we play, our obsession with taking the ball into contact, going to ground and recycling is so predictable, pedestrian and although it has served us so far in the 6 nations, it won't do at this level.

You're not going to see a huge difference from Ireland next weekend. There will probably be more intensity, which wouldn't be hard, and possibly fewer penalties conceded but beyond that we will employ a conservative low risk zero offloading game. It's a game which the French will handle easily I think.

noway12345

total former wrote: »

One of the back-rowers had to play all the games, since we only brought five with us. On that basis, it had to be Heaslip, rather than POM or SOB.

Earls could have been rested but it's not like he's in a particularly physical position, he'll be grand.

That doesn't make sense! Everyone could have been rested with 5 back-rowers.

Earls' injury record isn't the best as we all know. Playing him in every game could cause trouble.

This would all be grand if our aim was to get to the quarter final. Is that our aim? Are we not trying to win the thing? With this is mind I think playing O'Connell 5 weeks in a row wont work.

total former

noway12345 wrote: »

That doesn't make sense! Everyone could have been rested with 5 back-rowers.

Well, once it was decided to play the first-choice XV against Canada, it meant someone was going to have to play every game.

noway12345

total former wrote: »

Well, once it was decided to play the first-choice XV against Canada, it meant someone was going to have to play every game.

That's my point! Are we looking to win the World Cup or not? It looks like we haven't planned with winning it in mind.

molloyjh

noway12345 wrote: »

That's my point! Are we looking to win the World Cup or not? It looks like we haven't planned with winning it in mind.

That comment is just mad Ted. Mad.

noway12345

molloyjh wrote: »

That comment is just mad Ted. Mad.

We're not looking to win the World Cup? We are looking to win the World Cup? We have picked our team accordingly? We haven't picked our team accordingly?

Ed The Equalizer

Irish_rat wrote: »

Heres my team wouldnt happen though :pac:

---

Kearney R

---

DKearney

---

Earls

---

Henshaw ,Payne

---

---

Sexton

---

---

Murray

---

--- Heaslip

---

Henry --- Hendo

---

POC

---

Toner

---

Ross

---

Best

---

McGrath

That would be my exact team too. Really interested to see if Joe mixes it up but don't think he'd go this far. SOB, Healy and Ryan would be great as impact subs.

Laois_Man

noway12345 wrote: »

That's my point! Are we looking to win the World Cup or not? It looks like we haven't planned with winning it in mind.

GOing by your logic, would it be completely out of the question to rest a few against France and prepare for a really good crack at the All Blacks in a quarter final?

New Zealand won't have had a decent test since September 20th against Argentina so they'll be rested and whoever loses the Ireland/France game is in for a serious walloping if they have thrown everything into their last group game only to lose anyway.

Added to that, if the aim is to win the thing, we'd probably have to beat the All Blacks at some point and perhaps a quarter final is the easier time to do it - and also, perhaps the real team to avoid is Australia who we would avoid until the final if we lose to France (assuming Australia beat Wales).

So then by your logic, to win the tournament, we're better off losing to France. No?

noway12345

Laois_Man wrote: »

GOing by your logic, would it be completely out of the question to rest a few against France and prepare for a really good crack at the All Blacks in a quarter final?

New Zealand won't have had a decent test since September 20th against Argentina so they'll be rested and whoever loses the Ireland/France game is in for a serious walloping if they have thrown everything into their last group game only to lose anyway.

Added to that, if the aim is to win the thing, we'd probably have to beat the All Blacks at some point and perhaps a quarter final is the easier time to do it - and also, perhaps the real team to avoid is Australia who we would avoid until the final if we lose to France (assuming Australia beat Wales).

So then by your logic, to win the tournament, we're better off losing to France. No?

What the hell are you on about? Going by my logic we wouldn't have to rest anyone against France, New Zealand, Australia or anyone else you can think of.

Ed The Equalizer

Laois_Man wrote: »

GOing by your logic, would it be completely out of the question to rest a few against France and prepare for a really good crack at the All Blacks in a quarter final?

New Zealand won't have had a decent test since September 20th against Argentina so they'll be rested and whoever loses the Ireland/France game is in for a serious walloping if they have thrown everything into their last group game only to lose anyway.

Added to that, if the aim is to win the thing, we'd probably have to beat the All Blacks at some point and perhaps a quarter final is the easier time to do it - and also, perhaps the real team to avoid is Australia who we would avoid until the final if we lose to France (assuming Australia beat Wales).

So then by your logic, to win the tournament, we're better off losing to France. No?

I agree with that, I'd prefer a few changes (of off-form players) against France and if it doesn't come off we'll be able to throw everything at the All Blacks.

Idbatterim

Im sorry, but how in gods name do people think argentina would be favourites against us?

Larbre34

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

I agree with that, I'd prefer a few changes (of off-form players) against France and if it doesn't come off we'll be able to throw everything at the All Blacks.

Nominations?

noway12345

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sorry, but how in gods name do people think argentina would be favourites against us?

Have you watched the World Cup so far?

Larbre34

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sorry, but how in gods name do people think argentina would be favourites against us?

I can only think of two things, their results and their stats.

captbarnacles

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sorry, but how in gods name do people think argentina would be favourites against us?

Based on what we've seen of the WC so far why would you think they wouldn't be?

Ireland will be slight favourites because of our form in the Six Nations. On Sunday we'll see if that form has translated to the WC but on what we've seen so far (and there many reasons for this not least we haven't had to be very good to win) Argentina are a better side.

Laois_Man

noway12345 wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? Going by my logic we wouldn't have to rest anyone against France, New Zealand, Australia or anyone else you can think of.

No, going by your logic, topping the group doesn't matter...in fact, it hinders us if our aim is to win the tournament as we'd end up probably being required to beat Australia and then NZ on successive weekends..after Argentina.

Whereas, losing to France means we'd be required to beat them 2 weeks apart, with maybe Wales in between.

None of it would be easy - but the latter would be an indisputably easier requirement to fulfill to me!

noway12345

Laois_Man wrote: »

No, going by your logic, topping the group doesn't matter...in fact, it hinders us if our aim is to win the tournament as we'd end up probably being required to beat Australia and then NZ on successive weekends..after Argentina.

Whereas, losing to France means we'd be required to beat them 2 weeks apart, with maybe Wales in between.

None of it would be easy - but the latter would be an indisputably easier requirement to fulfill to me!

Top level sport works by attempting to peak at the right time. Having the players rested but with the right amount of rugby time and preparation done is what the top teams are looking for. It's very hard to get it right but I think we've got it badly wrong.
We should be aiming to peak for the semi finals. Beating France and Argentina on the way as we steadily improve performance. Already some of our players look stale. What will it be like in a semi final v Australia?

jimneill

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sorry, but how in gods name do people think argentina would be favourites against us?

argentina looked impressive against the all blacks. very strong scrum as well. it would be tight if we played them

WarZ

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.POC
5.Toner
6.Henderson
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Earls
12.Henshaw
13.Payne
14.Fitzgerald
15.Kearney