Ireland v France [build up thread]

Notfrontrow

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you've misinterpreted that. Ticklemeelmo isn't saying it unifies Ireland, he is saying that it is the only thing so far that has unified two groups within Ireland, although I think other sports have a similar approach, Rugby is certainly the largest and I think it's great to see myself.

Hockey & Golf are both all ireland and arguably more integrated than Rugby (i.e. they haven't had to create an "Ireland's Call)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Notfrontrow wrote: »

Hockey & Golf are both all ireland and arguably more integrated than Rugby (i.e. they haven't had to create an "Ireland's Call)

You can make the same arguments about hockey being a certain class of people who play it.
Technically golf is organised on an All Ireland basis but the golfers from Northern Ireland still represent Northern Ireland on the world stage. I can never figure out how they works, but it doesn't matter, we're probably straying a little too off topic now.

total former

Sorry for the back seat modding, but what the fnck has this to do with Ireland v France?

RuMan

Riskymove wrote: »

very outdated view

Rugby is far more widespread than that and it has been for some time in the likes of Limerick for example

Lol ! Thanks - i pointed that out myself in the original post. Here u go -

Not really. Rugbys a middle class game or was up until recently. No desire to get political but FG doctors and solicitors naturally would have more in common with UUP doctors and solicitors. Aussies in general are fairly blunt about rugby (or union as they call it) being a game for posh schoolboys. We throw in Limerick here and pretend it's not the case but in Ulster and leinster that's predominantly the case (at least historically). Leinster have made significant strides to change this recently in fairness. Wouldn't know enough about Ulster to comment if it's still the case there.

Riskymove

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I can never figure out how they works,

golfers on the professional circuit play as individuals they don't represent anyone. Their actual nationality is indicated

Quint2010

Very worried about our midfield defence now. The French will be rubbing their hands with glee.

Riskymove

RuMan wrote: »

Lol ! Thanks - i pointed that out myself in the original post. Here u go -

you are wrong about Leinster too and it isn't that way in Connacht either so you can make of that what you will....

anyways back to the match

bilston

Notfrontrow wrote: »

Hockey & Golf are both all ireland and arguably more integrated than Rugby (i.e. they haven't had to create an "Ireland's Call)

Surely Ireland's Call makes Rugby more integrated!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

Trimble would have been a much more useful player to have.

Given Bowe's inclusion, and the assumption that it's because he's the best winger under the high ball, I would have liked to have had Trimble on the other wing for this match. He fielded a couple of kicks for Ulster this season that lead to tries a few phases later. I think he would have added a little something extra for this match had he traveled. But that's a pointless conversation now.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that I cause conflict on here? :pac:

Not at all. Merely suggesting that we, as a collective, don't need another outlet to rant and rave about the same things occupying us in several threads already

rrpc

awec wrote: »

No, I said I understand why he is not on the bench.

I am questioning why he was brought at all. For whatever reason it seems even Fitzgerald is ahead of him in the pecking order at centre, surely it would have been more prudent to leave him behind and call him up if injuries did arise.

Trimble would have been a much more useful player to have.

There are two types of player in the squad. One group is made up of players from whom match day squads are selected depending on injury profiles, opposition, rotation or game plan.

The other group are the Break glass in case of emergency' players who are likely to start should one of the former group be out from injury. Cave and Jackson would be two such players.

bilston

Well the team is picked now and I hope they can do the job.

I was fairly bullish about this game but the loss of Payne has me wavering a bit.

I'll say no more on the second row other than Toner is a very good player with obvious strengths.

Strauss over Cronin is an interesting one. Cronin has always struck me as the perfect impact player.

whatawaster81

Sorry to be a doomsdayer but don't think we'll win if this the team, earls will be destroyed at centre, we're going out to kick and maul,

justsomebloke

The Politics forum is

---

> if that is what floats your boat.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Bastareaud is going to have great craic with Earls playing in the center.

Riskymove

rrpc wrote: »

Cave and Jackson would be two such players.

in Jacksons case it only takes one injury or concern and he is in the 23

If Cave is really fifth choice, behind even Earls and Fitzgerald I do think you would question the need to bring him as opposed to call up if we had lost 2 or 3 centres

RuMan

Riskymove wrote: »

you are wrong about Leinster too and it isn't that way in Connacht either so you can make of that what you will....

anyways back to the match

"leinster that's predominantly the case (at least historically). Leinster have made significant strides to change this recently in fairness. "

Which bit is wrong ? That Leinster have made strides in this regard or that Historically at least rugby was a middle class game.

The proportion of Leinster/ulster players that are privately educated still does not match the percentage of the general population privately educated. Not making a comment on whether this is good or bad but it's certainly the case.

Anyway as you say back to the match

cuilleog

Pretty clear that the people who believe that rugby is "a middle class game" have never been to Limerick, Cork, Wales, England or France. Try and tell me Shannon Rugby Club, or Leicester for that matter is a "middle class bastion", and there's classic cluelessness at work there. Also, the amount of players now coming through from traditionally perceived "non-rugby" counties like Tipperary and Louth pouts the tin hat on that.

More importantly, I have serious concerns about Earls facing Bastareaud, but otherwise think we match up to the French pretty well (with a more reliable goalkicker)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Loads of talk about the French forwards losing weight in their training camps. I think it's fairly obvious to look at them that they have. I assume this has positive and negative impacts for us? Negative is you have to keep an eye on some of them a bit more in case they do a Dane Coles and decide to sprint half the field on their own and we can't catch them. Positive is... we should dominate them at the scrum? Unless they were super heavy before camp and are now just very heavy? Anyone got pack weight stats?

EDIT: Found them myself.

France Average Pack Weight - 17st 13lbs
Ireland Average Pack Weight - 17st 11lbs

Obviously that will fluctuate depending on who is playing.

Riskymove

RuMan wrote: »

The proportion of Leinster/ulster players that are privately educated still does not match the percentage of the general population privately educated. Not making a comment on whether this is good or bad but it's certainly the case.

you are confusing the type and numbers who play rugby, particularly at school level, to the numbers who support and follow the game

Unifying the Island is about much more than those who play the game or go to a rugby school

rrpc

Riskymove wrote: »

in Jacksons case it only takes one injury or concern and he is in the 23

If Cave is really fifth choice, behind even Earls and Fitzgerald I do think you would question the need to bring him as opposed to call up if we had lost 2 or 3 centres

Because he's been training continuously with the squad he should slot in seamlessly.

Fitz and Earls are also covering wing, so their continued coverage of centre is contingent on them not being needed there.

rrpc

Riskymove wrote: »

you are confusing the type and numbers who play rugby, particularly at school level, to the numbers who support and follow the game

Unifying the Island is about much more than those who play the game or go to a rugby school

Can we discuss the French game instead?

.ak

justsomebloke wrote: »

The Politics forum is

---

> if that is what floats your boat.

*ahem*

Let's stick to discussing the game.

Riskymove

rrpc wrote: »

Because he's been training continuously with the squad he should slot in seamlessly.

Fitz and Earls are also covering wing, so their continued coverage of centre is contingent on them not being needed there.

it still means his appearance is contingent on a number of injuries

it might have been better to have a third scrum half training in the squad and avoid any "Magidan at 9 emergencies"

Madigan can also cover centre (even Sexton and Bowe have played there)

awec

Seriously, enough talk about classes etc. Discussion of the match only please or I'll ban everyone.

Christy42

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Bastareaud is going to have great craic with Earls playing in the center.

I imagine Henshaw has a starring role in stopping Bastareaud from targeting other players. We will see what moves they come out with. I wonder if that is why they Schmidt was keeping Payne's non participation in the match under wraps until the last minute. Stops the French from planning too many plays designed to get Bastareaud running at Earls.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Seriously, enough talk about classes etc. Discussion of the match only please or I'll ban everyone.

I'll tell you who is class, Devin Toner.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Another thought on Toner.... Flanquart is France's tallest player at 6ft 8 while Toner is 6ft 10. However, Flanquart is on the bench for France so who does that leave as their tallest player in the line out?

(Also, I feel I should apologise for twice accidentally starting political conversations in the last 24 hours. Even though it was never my intention to go near politics, or class, my posts seem to have incited the discussions. I have learned my lesson and will never venture beyond the confines of specific match talk ever again, lest anyone think I was doing it deliberately.)

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'll tell you who is class, Devin Toner.

I'm on the positivity love wagon now ibf, I've said what I had to say.

Trust in Joe. Go Ireland go!

total former

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Another thought on Toner.... Flanquart is France's tallest player at 6ft 8 while Toner is 6ft 10. However, Flanquart is on the bench for France so who does that leave as their tallest player in the line out

Maestri, he's huge.

awec

total former wrote: »

Maestri, he's huge.

awec

awec wrote: »

Seriously, enough talk about classes etc. Discussion of the match only please or I'll ban everyone.

Can we talk about how Sexton is going to school Michalak?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

total former wrote: »

Maestri, he's huge.

6ft 7.5 according to Google. Dev's still got 2.5 inches on him.

stadedublinois

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Another thought on Toner.... Flanquart is France's tallest player at 6ft 8 while Toner is 6ft 10. However, Flanquart is on the bench for France so who does that leave as their tallest player in the line out?

Maestri isn't much smaller than Flanquart.

On the weight issue. I'm not sure they lost that much weight. Ben Arous was even asked to put on a few kilos.

awec

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

6ft 7.5 according to Google. Dev's still got 2.5 inches on him .

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

stadedublinois wrote: »

Maestri isn't much smaller than Flanquart.

On the weight issue. I'm not sure they lost that much weight. Ben Arous was even asked to put on a few kilos.

Picamoles has lost a few KG although perhaps that was while he was ill and he didn't put them back on.

hmmm

It's interesting the emphasis Joe is putting on next week. I wonder if the Irish team will really put their bodies on the line on Sunday, or are they being sent out to give it a good shot but look after themselves. Everyone is expecting a titanic struggle, but I'm not sure we'll get that.

Ardillaun

I've no doubt that both Toner and Henderson will play well. Earls' tackling and Healy's fitness worry me more. I'll be relieved to get the first ten minutes out of the way without catastrophes in scrum or midfield. In Joe I trust - it's the players that make me nervous.

Ardillaun

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Picamoles has lost a few KG although perhaps that was while he was ill and he didn't put them back on.

In 07, I think the average French body fat percentage was alleged to be 7 per cent.

RuMan

cuilleog wrote: »

Pretty clear that the people who believe that rugby is "a middle class game" have never been to Limerick, Cork, Wales, England or France. Try and tell me Shannon Rugby Club, or Leicester for that matter is a "middle class bastion", and there's classic cluelessness at work there. Also, the amount of players now coming through from traditionally perceived "non-rugby" counties like Tipperary and Louth pouts the tin hat on that.

More importantly, I have serious concerns about Earls facing Bastareaud, but otherwise think we match up to the French pretty well (with a more reliable goalkicker)

Dont think anyone said rugby was a middle class game. I pointed out in regard to NI that the typical rugby player in Ulster would probably have had a similar backround to those playing from the South as a reason for higher level of cross border co operation in rugby. I appear to have caused offense with this view.
I didn't mention any of those places you use in your post to accuse me of being "clueless".

Anyway i'm done. Hopeful our half backs will be the difference on sunday although would have concerns about the centres.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

It's interesting the emphasis Joe is putting on next week. I wonder if the Irish team will really put their bodies on the line on Sunday, or are they being sent out to give it a good shot but look after themselves. Everyone is expecting a titanic struggle, but I'm not sure we'll get that.

Literally never happens in Rugby, let alone in international test rugby at a rugby world cup

LostArt

Ardillaun wrote: »

In 07, I think the average French body fat percentage was alleged to be 7 per cent.

:eek: that's crazy low for a rugby player

.ak

Yeah it's too low. Very hard on the muscles to play without the padding. 12 percent is ideal for backrows etc

whatawaster81

Deleted User wrote: »

Literally never happens in Rugby, let alone in international test rugby at a rugby world cup

Especially not with these comments re: extra days rest

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/2015/1009/733636-schmidt-extra-rest-the-big-prize-for-winning-pool/

Reps4jesus

LostArt wrote: »

:eek: that's crazy low for a rugby player

They wouldnt have been close to 7%, 7% isnt far off what a bodybuilder would be going into a comp. Now while rugby players are in great shape these days, i dont imagine many of them will be getting on a bodybuilding stage any time soon.

As long as we keep the scoreboard ticking over in this game I think we will be fine, if we go through a 20 - 25 min period without even picking up a penalty I will be worried.

If France are going to be "targeting" sexton as they are suggesting they will I would be putting money on SOB man of the match.

Ardillaun

LostArt wrote: »

:eek: that's crazy low for a rugby player

It's a pretty mad claim, isn't it? I can find no trace of it now other than my own head, so I don't know whether somebody pinched Chabal with callipers once and extrapolated from that to the whole team.

stadedublinois

Ardillaun wrote: »

It's a pretty mad claim, isn't it? I can find no trace of it now other than my own head, so I don't know whether somebody pinched Chabal with callipers once and extrapolated from that to the whole team.

Yeah, I remember something about Chabal having very low body fat but not about the rest of the team.

stadedublinois

stadedublinois wrote: »

Yeah, I remember something about Chabal having very low body fat but not about the rest of the team.

Its 4% more than distance runners often achieve and it's their job not to carry any weight at all. 7% playing rugby doesn't sound in any way accurate.

jacothelad

thomond2006 wrote: »

Btw I think Nigel Owens is a big plus for us.

Oh! Look at the results when he has reffed Ireland. Two wins v. ABs denied by his reffing. He's an o.k. ref out of a bad bunch but he isn't going to do us any favours especially in the scrum contest.

Christy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Its 4% more than distance runners often achieve and it's their job not to carry any weight at all. 7% playing rugby doesn't sound in any way accurate.

Ah well I never considered Chabal as a rugby player:P.

jacothelad

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That doesn't change anything I said though. There were plenty of educated doctors and teachers and whatever else who picked a side and contributed to the divide. Rugby didn't and is still, as far as I can see, the only thing that genuinely unifies the island.

Apart from Hockey...and cricket,,,,and athletics....and boxing.....and stamp collecting and people who can tie their own shoelaces.:D