Ireland v France [build up thread]

Podge_irl

noway12345 wrote: »

Have you seen them at the breakdown? Did you watch the match v England? Did you watch any Australia match ever?

Yes, Yes and Yes.

What do they do that SOB is incapable of? Specifically?

irishbucsfan

thebaz wrote: »

fast, energetic, a pest, quick and strong at the breakdown, tackle machine. SOB has always done better as a 6 , say with Jennings at 7 - don't think he has the pace to play like Hooper did on Saturday

The only thing there that SOB doesn't have is the pace. He's energetic, and turns over the ball constantly, remember his game against Richie McCaw's New Zealand when he had 3 turnovers? People were saying he wasn't a 7 before that game as well, but they quitened down after that.

Our back row is excellent, it covers all of the bases very well.

noway12345

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes, Yes and Yes.

What do they do that SOB is incapable of? Specifically?

The amount of turnovers!!! O'Brien isn't in the same league as them in this regard.

Pudsy33

noway12345 wrote: »

The amount of turnovers!!! O'Brien isn't in the same league as them in this regard.

SOB is probably the next tier down from that pair in terms of breakdown work, that's true. However we have Best, POC, POM, and Heaslip are fantastic breakdown players. It's not strictly a 7 vs 7 battle.

typhoony

for the france game our backrow should be ok, Dusautoir is not the same player he was a few seasons back. Murray, sexton and Heaslip can handle Picamol. Chouly is an average enough backrow player,elsewehere in the forwards scrum could be an issue,we need Ross to last to 70 minutes.

mystic86

Tirangapete wrote: »

11/8 france is surely a gift from gods , I'll back them its a win win bet

They win I cover my trip to Wales

They loose and we get excited again about the World Cup

..... so you're placing hundreds on the France win?

Hardly a gift from the gods, 100/1 would be a gift...

Podge_irl

noway12345 wrote: »

The amount of turnovers!!! O'Brien isn't in the same league as them in this regard.

So do you think O'Brien is

A) Useless at getting turnovers
Substandard at getting turnovers
C) Below the level of the absolute best people in the game at it

And as a follow up, who do we have that is so much better?

awec

Our best turnover merchant is actually Rory Best, so even if SOB isn't the most prolific at turning over the ball we more than make up for this from other areas of the squad.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Our best turnover merchant is actually Rory Best, so even if SOB isn't the most prolific at turning over the ball we more than make up for this from other areas of the squad.

But SOB actually IS prolific at turning over the ball when he focuses on it. O'Mahoney is bloody good at it as well.

We just don't have a problem when it comes to creating turnovers at the breakdown.

Fireball07

SOB is immense at the breakdown generally, in terms of supporting his own players, slowing the ball down and winning turnovers.

He may not be quite as good as Pocock, but he is absolutely a natural 7- Pocock is the best in the business.


We won a couple of turnovers iirc, and won a few penalties at the breakdown, but in general, our own ball was too slow and that's where the failing of our pack really lies. SOB, Heaslip, POM, POC- they can all do so much better.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But SOB actually IS prolific at turning over the ball when he focuses on it. O'Mahoney is bloody good at it as well.

We just don't have a problem when it comes to creating turnovers at the breakdown.

Yea, we effectively play with 4 backrow players during open play.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Our best turnover merchant is actually Rory Best, so even if SOB isn't the most prolific at turning over the ball we more than make up for this from other areas of the squad.

Yeah, Best is excellent at it. Ireland are quite good across the board.

The point is that SOB actually is extremely good at it as well. It's just plain wrong to say otherwise.

And I'm incredibly curious as to where this Hooper-esque breakdown specialist is that we've been hiding away.

phog

awec wrote: »

Our best turnover merchant is actually Rory Best, so even if SOB isn't the most prolific at turning over the ball we more than make up for this from other areas of the squad.

In the 6Ns when Best was carded against France I was so worried not because we were down to 14 but we lost one of our best guys at the breakdown. He torments the opposition on their own ball.

Bridge93

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah, Best is excellent at it. Ireland are quite good across the board.

The point is that SOB actually is extremely good at it as well. It's just plain wrong to say otherwise.

And I'm incredibly curious as to where this Hooper-esque breakdown specialist is that we've been hiding away.

Why it's Keith Earls don't you know.

marco_polo

We are a a pretty good team at the breakdown when it comes to turnovers, how is this suddenly a hot topic again over the past few pages? It is certainly the least of our worries over the course of the next week.

captbarnacles

phog wrote: »

In the 6Ns when Best was carded against France I was so worried not because we were down to 14 but we lost one of our best guys at the breakdown. He torments the opposition on their own ball.

In that match vs NZ losing Best in the first half was crucial.

noway12345

Podge_irl wrote: »

So do you think O'Brien is

A) Useless at getting turnovers
Substandard at getting turnovers
C) Below the level of the absolute best people in the game at it

And as a follow up, who do we have that is so much better?

Am I in court here? He's not in the same league as Hooper or Pocock, the end!

CurryFlavoured

O'Brien is our best 7, but I prefer him at 6 because he carries more and he's probably the best ball carrier around when in full flight.

Conclusion: we need 2 sob's.

Podge_irl

noway12345 wrote: »

Am I in court here? He's not in the same league as Hooper or Pocock, the end!

So? Does that mean no one but Hooper and Pocock are "real" 7s?

noway12345

Podge_irl wrote: »

So? Does that mean no one but Hooper and Pocock are "real" 7s?

Where did I say that? You wanted to know what people expect from O'Brien to be the best and I told you. They want him to do what Hooper and Pocock do. No shame in not being able to match them at the breakdown.

marco_polo

Podge_irl wrote: »

So? Does that mean no one but Hooper and Pocock are "real" 7s?

No only Hooper's a 7, Pocock's not a real 8.

Its strange. I don't care about this match so much anymore. As POC said after the Italy match, the job is done, we have qualified.

With Australia and Argentina looking so good, any route is going to be very tough.

total former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its strange. I don't care about this match so much anymore. As POC said after the Italy match, the job is done, we have qualified.

With Australia and Argentina looking so good, any route is going to be very tough.

Nah, you can't honestly think that. Maybe you just haven't thought it through.

You don't mind whether we go up against New Zealand on the back of a defeat against France, or go up against Argentina riding high after a win against France? Really?

POC didn't really say it was job done, did he?

total former

total former wrote: »

Nah, you can't honestly think that. Maybe you just haven't thought it through.

You don't mind whether we go up against New Zealand on the back of a defeat against France, or go up against Argentina riding high after a win against France? Really?

POC didn't really say it was job done, did he?

POC said something along those lines. "We needed the win first, a lot of things to work on" etc. I'm sure he was being very diplomatic as always.

I'm even travelling to the match. Maybe I'm just a bit deflated by arguably Ireland's worst performance under Schmidt against Italy.

Utah_Saint

Was sob not originally moved to 7 to accommodate Ferris at 6?

ulster_Beef

My team

Henderson
Henderson
Henderson
Henderson
O'Connell
Henderson
Henderson
Henderson

.....

irishbucsfan

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Was sob not originally moved to 7 to accommodate Ferris at 6?

He's played right across the back row. He came through as a 7 at first (played 8 for Irish u20s to accommodate David Pollock) and his first run of games for Leinster came in the absence of Jennings. He was on the bench behind McLaughlin/Jennings the year after we won our first Heineken Cup and got his first stretch of starts after Jennings got a lengthy ban for gouging Nick Kennedy. Then when O'Brien came back the next season (he missed 6 months with a broken leg) he started big games at 7 with McLaughlin at 6 and Jennings on the bench.

When he came into the Ireland squad he was in a back row unit including Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip, and so when Ferris was out he was at 6 to partner Wallace, then when Wallace was out he was at 7 to partner Ferris etc.

That was when this quite silly debate about whether he was a 6 or a 7 began. Eventually it was proven quite emphatically that it really doesn't matter where you play your back row forwards so long as they fulfill their job as a unit. Which is exactly what our back row does (with a little help from Rory Best).

ulster_Beef

duckysauce wrote: »

Cronin should start , hit them hard and early , Earls has to be starting himself and Hendo are the standout Irish players so far .

Ireland had 100% scrum and line out success up til yesterday and best played well. You can't start Cronin when things are working. Hes better off the bench

its_phil

total former wrote: »

Nah, you can't honestly think that. Maybe you just haven't thought it through.

You don't mind whether we go up against New Zealand on the back of a defeat against France, or go up against Argentina riding high after a win against France? Really?

POC didn't really say it was job done, did he?

More job one done, than job done

case885

irishbucsfan wrote:

That was when this quite silly debate about whether he was a 6 or a 7 began. Eventually it was proven quite emphatically that it really doesn't matter where you play your back row forwards so long as they fulfill their job as a unit. Which is exactly what our back row does (with a little help from Rory Best).

Exactly, people seem to get caught up on what number jersey they are wearing which doesn't really make a difference.
We have a well balanced back row that aren't playing to their peak that's where the problem lies.

.ak

I'm actually perplexed that people think sob was poor. He was outstanding at what he was asked to do - be our primary carrier. He was our best carrier; the stats back this up btw, that's not an opinion.

This is the Payne situation all over again, will people stop watching tv3?

You don't need line breaks to be a world class 13 and you don't need to be poaching balls all game to be a world class 7.

Scythica

Not sure if it's been mentioned (Boards seems to show random things everytime i come on) but apparently France will have Dus, Chouly & Picamoles in the back row (La Roux missing out) with Dulin and Nakaitici on the wing

stadedublinois

Scythica wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned (Boards seems to show random things everytime i come on) but apparently France will have Dus, Chouly & Picamoles in the back row (La Roux missing out) with Dulin and Nakaitici on the wing

It looks likely. Le Roux could be on the bench with Nyanga or Ouedraogo and no specialist second row.

Hard to know what is going on in PSA's mind

CurryFlavoured

Scythica wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned (Boards seems to show random things everytime i come on) but apparently France will have Dus, Chouly & Picamoles in the back row (La Roux missing out) with Dulin and Nakaitici on the wing

Where'd you hear that?

If anyone wants a new stick to beat Earls with, its his offloading game now :pac:

Fleawuss

I'm enjoying the build up. It's fun here with PSA POC POM and such. You'd want to be Edward Snowden here sometimes to decipher it all. I have a feeling we'll all be having a big SOB at the end! Part of the build up is the prediction: France to win by 12. Then Ireland play the AB and play the greatest game ever against them and.....lose by a single point.

Flipper22

So lads, we need to get rid of Earls because he keeps trying to offload but is crap at it.


:pac::pac:

Fleawuss

Fleawuss wrote: »

I'm enjoying the build up. It's fun here with PSA POC POM and such. You'd want to be Edward Snowden here sometimes to decipher it all. I have a feeling we'll all be having a big SOB at the end! Part of the build up is the prediction: France to win by 12. Then Ireland play the AB and play the greatest game ever against them and.....lose by a single point.

Please no. Not after last time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=946lSJU9Yps

thebaz

.ak wrote: »

I'm actually perplexed that people think sob was poor. He was outstanding at what he was asked to do - be our primary carrier. He was our best carrier; the stats back this up btw, that's not an opinion.

This is the Payne situation all over again, will people stop watching tv3?

at best he was average , certainly not outstanding , and certainly nowhere near the level he can play at - in the game I watched yesterday the Italian back row destroyed us - so something wasn't right - probably a combination of all 3 been of the mark , lets hope for a big improvement on Sunday , from all 3.

Irish_rat

Is France at 13/10 easy money?

case885

Deleted User wrote:

If anyone wants a new stick to beat Earls with,

It's a lose-lose situation for Payne and earls in midfield I think. Payne was criticised for the lack of an attacking spark when he played and then when earls is brought in hes criticised for forcing it. I do think earl's best position is on the wing and he will be reinstated there for the french game but he was solid against Italy.

Bridge93

Anyone who bets on France, or any team that comes up against the team they supposedly support, goes down in my estimation.

Podge_irl

Irish_rat wrote: »

Is France at 13/10 easy money?

No.

Bridge93

What have France shown in this tournament that now has people sure we will lose to them on the back of one poor performance? They have been as bad.
Please don't come back with the cliche French **** about unpredictability and turning up at world cups. I mean actual evidence from their performances that some now have them as clear favourites?

blindside88

I'm reading through this and I can't believe the number of people dropping Earls. He has been the best winger (possibly best back) we have had so far. How anyone can put him as anything besides a nailed on starter is amazing.

thebaz

Bridge93 wrote: »

What have France shown in this tournament that now has people sure we will lose to them on the back of one poor performance? They have been as bad.
Please don't come back with the cliche French **** about unpredictability and turning up at world cups.

Its not ****e - ever since I have watched rugby , every year or 2 France give a display that no one can live with , and defy the odds - Champagne rugby .
Right now I see the game as 50/50 with no real favourite , I just hope that unpredictable brilliant France don't show up - memories of '99 , '03 against us and last time in final

gamma001

thebaz wrote: »

Its not ****e - ever since I have watched rugby , every year or 2 France give a display that no one can live with , and defy the odds - Champagne rugby .
Right now I see the game as 50/50 with no real favourite , I just hope that unpredictable brilliant France don't show up - memories of '99 , '03 against us and last time in final

I hope they do show up and we raise our game further to still win.

I also hope it's a small margin too to make it all the more exciting.

phog

blindside88 wrote: »

I'm reading through this and I can't believe the number of people dropping Earls. He has been the best winger (possibly best back) we have had so far. How anyone can put him as anything besides a nailed on starter is amazing.

To date, he is our player of the tournament. I think some are advocating moving him back to wing with Payne starting at centre which is fair enough. Anyone really suggesting dropping him from the team are (in my opinion) a bit mad.

Bridge93

thebaz wrote: »

Its not ****e - ever since I have watched rugby , every year or 2 France give a display that no one can live with , and defy the odds - Champagne rugby .
Right now I see the game as 50/50 with no real favourite , I just hope that unpredictable brilliant France don't show up - memories of '99 , '03 against us and last time in final

I'm not denying the cliche stuff we hear May or may not be true but it's an easy answer and you didn't answer my question. What has France shown in their games that has people who a few days ago said we would win well, now backing France to win?

vapor trails

If every Irish fans closes his eyes and envisions Ireland winning they picture this man. If every Irish fans closes his eyes and envisions Ireland losing they picture this man.

Mercurial Michalak

Which ever one shows up Sunday decides who wins. It's as simple as that for me.