Ireland v France [build up thread]

total former

dub_skav wrote: »

Lol. The entire city was drank dry that night, never mind the stadium. Epic session.

Idbatterim

havent we beaten the french the last four times we have faced them?

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

havent we beaten the french the last four times we have faced them?

Won two, drawn two

Idbatterim

Differing opinion from two new zealand pundits on whether they want ireland or france...

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/all-blacks-want-ireland-in-world-cup-quarter-final/

subfreq

Surely NZ would want Ireland every day of the week.

awec

subfreq wrote: »

Surely NZ would want Ireland every day of the week.

No question IMO.

matthew8

They'd want Ireland because of instinct rather than logic. This French side is nothing compared to those that beat NZ. It'd be the same with us if South Africa became the clear best team in the world over NZ, we'd still rather play South Africa because of the history.

awec

We haven't become a clear team over France though. They may not be as good as they were but the argument could be made that they are still a better team than us.

Pudsy33

awec wrote: »

We haven't become a clear team over France though. They may not be as good as they were but the argument could be made that they are still a better team than us.

It's can't be made using logic. We have beaten them twice in four games and have not lost in that time. We have a vastly superior coach. We are double 6 nations champions, they haven't been in the top 2 in that time.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

We haven't become a clear team over France though. They may not be as good as they were but the argument could be made that they are still a better team than us.

Based on? We were fairly poor against Italy but I think France have been very ropey this tournament too.

If I was NZ I'd still rather play Ireland though cause feck it, it's France.

WarZ

We have never beaten New Zealand of course they would want us!

France have not only beaten them, they've knocked them out of world cups!

Celly Smunt

We are a better team than France on paper recently, but France on the field can be two different types of animal.

penybont exile

Akrasia wrote: »

We play every game to win too, and we have scored more points than france against the same opposition so I don't know what your big problem is.

Ireland were always aiming to peak at the end of thr group stage and into the QFs. So far we've come through with enough points difference to win the group by simply drawing the against France. France have to beat us so we already have an advantage before the game starts. we've got no injuries or suspensions and we haven't shown much to the opposition that they can use against us when they play us.

Ireland have also given game time to players at the positions that they are expected to cover if they are needed so we are sacrificing some performance for insurance against injury later on.

We got a wake-up call against Italy who were playing to their maximum ability, and we still won without getting to our full intensity, but it was the perfect warm-up game for the french match.

There is no need to panic. At all. France need to improve a lot more than us to give us a shock in the next game and all the evidence of the last 4 years are that PSA is not a tactically astute manager.

PSA isn't playing ....... There are 23 big, athletic, garlic munching frenchies that you have to worry about!!!

Kev_2012

I don't understand the hate for Earls at centre, although I'd be weary against basteraud.

He has been playing very well at wing and 13. His tackling has improved so much in the last 2 years.

Also, putting Tommy Bowe in at 13 to neutralise Basteraud? Didn't Jonny May flatten him in the warm up game?

I'd have Henshaw marking Basteraud if Earls isn't up to it, but I think he'll do well plus he can straighten up the attack.
Zebo has been playing well and deserves his place and can create a bit of magic.

I'd go :

15 - R Kearney
14 - Bowe
13 - Payne if fit, if not - Earls
12 - Henshaw
11 - Zebo
10 - Sexton
9 - Murray
8 - Heaslip
7 - SOB
6 - POM
5 - POC
4 - Henderson
3 - Ross
2 - Best
1 - Jack McGrath

23 - D Kearney
22 - Madigan
21 - Reddan
20 - Henry
19 - Toner
18 - White
17 - Healy
16 - Cronin

Fleawuss

It's about form: Ireland have looked off the pace and lacking invention, vulnerable out wide to quick ball. France have looked powerful in the pack and fast. Will a different Ireland appear next time? Has Schmidt got a team that can switch from grinding tournament wins to knockout? Is the plan really to try to control possession and win from set pieces? Italy nearly found us out. The weekend will reveal a great deal. Can't wait!

Bridge93

Fleawuss wrote: »

It's about form: Ireland have looked off the pace and lacking invention, vulnerable out wide to quick ball. France have looked powerful in the pack and fast. Will a different Ireland appear next time? Has Schmidt got a team that can switch from grinding tournament wins to knockout? Is the plan really to try to control possession and win from set pieces? Italy nearly found us out. The weekend will reveal a great deal. Can't wait!

France's form has been no better than ours

thebaz

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I don't understand the hate for Earls at centre, although I'd be weary against basteraud.

Don't believe there is hate for Earls , just realism , as you say would you want Basteraud running at him , don't think Sunday is a game for Earls - and I've nothing but admiration for Earls

irishbucsfan

Bridge93 wrote: »

France's form has been no better than ours

Exactly. If France's form was so good and our form was so bad then we wouldn't be top of the group on tie breakers going into the game.

Maybe it's a good thing that the general public build up the French though.

thebaz

Bridge93 wrote: »

France's form has been no better than ours

they did cruise past Italy

Bridge93

thebaz wrote: »

they did cruise past Italy

Italy were quite good on Sunday. They were awful against France. We're top of the group.

Idbatterim

Weren't Italy missing parisse for the French match? Also it was an all or nothing match v us, lose and they were out. It wasn't against the French...

Christy42

thebaz wrote: »

they did cruise past Italy

Yeah and the Canadians were giving them an actual match up for the first half. We were what 29-0 up at that point? Their form isn't better than ours or they would be top of the group.

I really don't get how people keep saying we are stunted in attack while the French will cut us apart when we have scored my tries. The match will be tough but we are definitely capable of winning.

Akrasia

penybont exile wrote: »

PSA isn't playing ....... There are 23 big, athletic, garlic munching frenchies that you have to worry about!!!

I've aged several years worrying about it

But the 23 men who play against us will be playing in the positions and to the direction of PSA, a man who hasn't demonstrated any tactical awareness as a manager.

A good coach can make average players perform beyond reasonable expectations. A poor coach can make a team of superstars underperform.

iroced

So. That's it. This is THE game.

As I wrote on another forum, I'm getting less and less fearful of le XV du trèfle the more we progress into this WC. Your display against Italy was maybe the worst I ever saw from an Irish team (of course I haven't seen a tenth of the games most of you have seen in here but I don't think I missed any 5/6N & WC games for something like 20 years). I'm sure you'd all have examples to contradict me but I mean, respective to the context (you're a clear favourite of the group and are amongst the outsiders to win the Competition ; you had/have a perfect fixtures list ; Italy, as much as it hurts to say it since I really appreciate Brunel, have gone backwards these last couple of years) this was a truly awful performance from your team.

Your halves were shockingly useless (the amount of unforced errors they made was just :eek:). Your backrow was strangely anonymous. 2 of your normal strongpoints . I found your backs uninspired bar the great movement and passing for Earls' try. But you were, as ever, strong on the basics. And I'm very much afraid of Henderson. He was just magnificent. He could almost win the game on his own. He almost covers every single position upfront. If you put him, Hooper & Pocock in the same team, the opposition have almost no hope of winning the ball from any ruck :pac:...

Now, I'm sure this won't be the same Ireland next week-end but the confidence level may have changed. We seem to gradually progress into this competition. We're crap and ugly anyway but it seems PSA managed to convince our team it is OK, we don't need neither HAVE to win beautifully. We're on 5 wins in a row, our best serie under PSA. We never really were in danger in any of our games. We look like a team that's convinced the 3 months to prepare this competition were/are enough to change everything and that we can forget the past 4 years. I don't believe this to be honest. What I believe is pointless though :pac:... as long as PSA and the players are on the same wavelength. But, what's sure is we could not have come to this game in a better way. And again I'd give credit to PSA for a perfect management of the team so far. He knows that his 4 years will be judged on our next 2 games anyway. He almost failed in everything up to now. So he's basically on to succeed for his exit. And like Lièvremont he seems to know about it and be more than prepared for it. Which seems to have a beneficial impact on the team.

While this worrying game of yours vs Italy could have awoken (your) past demons...
The irony is shall we beat you, it'll be our turn to face (our) past demons in the quarters :rolleyes: :pac:...

Akrasia

iroced wrote: »

So. That's it. This is THE game.

As I wrote on another forum, I'm getting less and less fearful of le XV du trèfle the more we progress into this WC. Your display against Italy was maybe the worst I ever saw from an Irish team (of course I haven't seen a tenth of the games most of you have seen in here but I don't think I missed any 5/6N & WC games for something like 20 years). I'm sure you'd all have examples to contradict me but I mean, respective to the context (you're a clear favourite of the group and are amongst the outsiders to win the Competition ; you had/have a perfect fixtures list ; Italy, as much as it hurts to say it since I really appreciate Brunel, have gone backwards these last couple of years) this was a truly awful performance from your team.

Your halves were shockingly useless (the amount of unforced errors they made was just :eek:). Your backrow was strangely anonymous. 2 of your normal strongpoints . I found your backs uninspired bar the great movement and passing for Earls' try. But you were, as ever, strong on the basics. And I'm very much afraid of Henderson. He was just magnificent. He could almost win the game on his own. He almost covers every single position upfront. If you put him, Hooper & Pocock in the same team, the opposition have almost no hope of winning the ball from any ruck :pac:...

Now, I'm sure this won't be the same Ireland next week-end but the confidence level may have changed. We seem to gradually progress into this competition. We're crap and ugly anyway but it seems PSA managed to convince our team it is OK, we don't need neither HAVE to win beautifully. We're on 5 wins in a row, our best serie under PSA. We never really were in danger in any of our games. We look like a team that's convinced the 3 months to prepare this competition were/are enough to change everything and that we can forget the past 4 years. I don't believe this to be honest. What I believe is pointless though :pac:... as long as PSA and the players are on the same wavelength. But, what's sure is we could not have come to this game in a better way. And again I'd give credit to PSA for a perfect management of the team so far. He knows that his 4 years will be judged on our next 2 games anyway. He almost failed in everything up to now. So he's basically on to succeed for his exit. And like Lièvremont he seems to know about it and be more than prepared for it. Which seems to have a beneficial impact on the team.

While this worrying game of yours vs Italy could have awoken (your) past demons...
The irony is shall we beat you, it'll be our turn to face (our) past demons in the quarters :rolleyes: :pac:...

Thems fighting words :P

.ak

If iroced is confident then the French must be overconfident! :pac:

vapor trails

A nice little piece from L'Equipe. One of the home page features stories on the website at the moment.

http://www.lequipe.fr/explore-video/rugby-l-appel-de-l-irlande/

I didn't know / can't believe they played "The Rose Of Tralee" as our anthem for the 1987 Rugby World Cup !

dodderangler

Murray can feck off with his kicks this match

Pudsy33

dodderangler wrote: »

Murray can feck off with his kicks this match

To be honest I reckon we will see more of them and it's a decent strategy. Nacataki is a ropey fielder and Dulin is small. The kicks themselves however need to be better.

Celly Smunt

Akrasia wrote: »

Thems fighting words :P

Allez Les verts...allez Les verts..

frostyjacks

The conservative, kicking game isn't pretty to watch, but it works. What sort of game do the French want us to play? Open, high risk, lots of offloads? No way, it'd be playing into their hands.

smiley_face

frostyjacks wrote: »

The conservative, kicking game isn't pretty to watch, but it works. What sort of game do the French want us to play? Open, high risk, lots of offloads? No way, it'd be playing into their hands.

Good point, perhaps we played a particularly narrow/basic game plan against Italy as practice for France.
Nothing like consistent patient play to upset France and make them try rash plays. Wales have a good record of beating them in recent years with nothing except straight running and a good combative back row.

The Rape of Lucretia

iroced wrote: »

So. That's it. This is THE game.

As I wrote on another forum, I'm getting less and less fearful of le XV du trèfle the more we progress into this WC.

Its a different game for you gars though. Your best chance of beating the ABs is in the final when they could be must susceptible to their customary jitters the later the tournament gets for them. Ireland different case. The quarters are the place to skewer them. And from there onwards to the the trophy.

irishbucsfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its a different game for you gars though. Your best chance of beating the ABs is in the final when they could be must susceptible to their customary jitters the later the tournament gets for them. Ireland different case. The quarters are the place to skewer them. And from there onwards to the the trophy.

Could you do the match preview?

Dickie10

this could be very tight what odds a draw im going for ireland 9-9 france. i am fearful though that the french will turn it on and do us ala 2003, we just might be blind to it all now then afterwards realise we should have seen it coming all along thats my big nightmare !

iroced

frostyjacks wrote: »

The conservative, kicking game isn't pretty to watch, but it works. What sort of game do the French want us to play? Open, high risk, lots of offloads? No way, it'd be playing into their hands.

Not that true under PSA who's making us play unnaturally a pretty conservative and kicking game too. All our games have been very close affairs. Actually even before PSA. Our last 7 games shows 3 wins for us, 2 for you and 2 draws with a 3.3 average points difference :eek:.
So should be an "ugly" close affair ...

The Rape of Lucretia

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Could you do the match preview?

Ireland :

Zeebs
Dave
Cavie
Geraldsie
Earlsie
Paddy
Redser
Furlo
Strausser
Whitie
Donnacha two
Dev
Henry
Jordi
The Show Pony(c)


Payne, Rob, and Healy will be on the bench and will be given 20 minutes to buzz about later in the game for a bit of match time fitness.


France:
It doesnt really matter.
A first choice selection aiming to win the game, but really, will flatter to deceive and if anything, will be quite deflated by their 35-12 victory, knowing Ireland was only on a second string experience gathering outing with very limited tactics and a target of losing the game with no injuries. Both targets will be achieved by Ireland.

Like the Duke of Wellington noting as a young school boy years before, the hill south of Waterloo as a perfect place to win a battle, Joe has long had the ABs in his sights in the quarter final as his carefully plotted route to Ireland's first world cup win.

A game for the connaisseurs only.

Celly Smunt

I'm really trying to add up the chance of France imploding during the game into a mess or being new outsiders for the trophy.

Any other team and I'd say we're looking at a team playing average, but the french seem to only have two settings, terrible or jaw droppingly good. If Sexton and Murray are on point I can't see the french being in charge for much of the game, if our half's aren't up to it, I fear what a pressing french line could do to our rucks.

Scrum wise - if we have the pack we're thinking we'll get its a 50/50, slightly leaning to france.

Line outs - depending on the french on the day it could be 50/50, but most likely ours.

Breakdown - France all day unless our half's perform

Under the ball - Ireland

Mauls - 50/50, leaning more to France

Line breaks - France

Kicking - Depending on Sexton, Ireland.

Centres - Ireland

Pack - France

Wings - Ireland shade it

Physicality - Hands down France


It's 50/50 all round on paper really.


A win and minimal injuries is the gold medal here.

bleg

Remember when we beat France in the 6 nations... and beat them well despite the scoreline not reflecting it. Everybody was so deflated that day. Reminds me of the Italy game last weekend. I reckon we'll be grand.

Koobcam

Dickie10 wrote: »

this could be very tight what odds a draw im going for ireland 9-9 france. i am fearful though that the french will turn it on and do us ala 2003, we just might be blind to it all now then afterwards realise we should have seen it coming all along thats my big nightmare !

Don't see a repeat of 2003 (or 2007, another hammering). France might turn it on, but in that case, it's more likely to be similar to the 2014 six nations winning match in Paris. Could be really tight anyway, so a draw is not impossible. Those victories over Canada and Romania might yet be important since they've given us the edge over the French if it is a draw.

Koobcam

bleg wrote: »

Remember when we beat France in the 6 nations... and beat them well despite the scoreline not reflecting it. Everybody was so deflated that day. Reminds me of the Italy game last weekend. I reckon we'll be grand.

Except for the last 15 minutes when Parra came on. Hopefully he doesn't start on Sunday.

feargale

Expect 95% of the English to be rooting for Ireland on Sunday. I hope some people remember that before they carry on with their auld 800 years stuff and Archibald bashing.

duckysauce

feargale wrote: »

Expect 95% of the English to be rooting for Ireland on Sunday. I hope some people remember that before they carry on with their auld 800 years stuff and Archibald bashing.

Bandwagon crap See Craig Doyle has changed his colours once again. Jumping on I am now Irish again . He is a very poor presenter and individual .

feargale

duckysauce wrote: »

Bandwagon crap See Craig Doyle has changed his colours once again. Jumping on I am now Irish again . He is a very poor presenter and individual .

Ok. Let them cheer on France then. I take it you've never got a present of a horse.

Ardillaun

I would be a bit concerned about Basta targeting Johnny again. I hope Sexton doesn't try to do too much himself there.

smiley_face

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I'm really trying to add up the chance of France imploding during the game into a mess or being new outsiders for the trophy.

Any other team and I'd say we're looking at a team playing average, but the french seem to only have two settings, terrible or jaw droppingly good. If Sexton and Murray are on point I can't see the french being in charge for much of the game, if our half's aren't up to it, I fear what a pressing french line could do to our rucks.

Scrum wise - if we have the pack we're thinking we'll get its a 50/50, slightly leaning to france.

Line outs - depending on the french on the day it could be 50/50, but most likely ours.

Breakdown - France all day unless our half's perform

Under the ball - Ireland

Mauls - 50/50, leaning more to France

Line breaks - France

Kicking - Depending on Sexton, Ireland.

Centres - Ireland

Pack - France

Wings - Ireland shade it

Physicality - Hands down France


It's 50/50 all round on paper really.


A win and minimal injuries is the gold medal here.

Centres:
12 = Fofana (hands down)
13 = Payne (barely)

Overall, Centres - France

TimeToShine

For me it depends on a combination of Ross performing and Michalak giving us his usual royal screw up. Having said that he's due a performance and if that's the case we are in trouble.

AdiDashery

jones wrote: »

What are everyones thoughts on the holding something back theory? I've been confident so far in the group that we were building nicely which each game being a step up in intensity but then the italian game happens and we looked fairly clueless in attack. (Defence was still strong IMO)

Was it just a bad day at the office? Or is Joe really stepping up the mind games and we're literally holding all our tricks for the French game which by the players own admission has been what this group as been about since day 1. I was sure this was the case but given how tight the italian game was is it plausilbe that we wouldn't of started to use some of the "secret plays" for breathing space to ensure the win? I dont think we would of ever lost the game but its making me worry now that maybe we dont have anything up our sleeves for the french.

Thoughts?

It depends what you mean by holding something back. Will we have a few set plays that Joe has concocted similar to the lineout move that the AB's used to win the last RWC or something like the move against the Italians that saw Earls cross the line, then i'd say yes.
But there's no way Murray was intentionally box kicking to such inaccuracy last week to try and fool the french. Same to be said for handling errors and indiscipline. The latter being of real concern to me.

rrpc

AdiDashery wrote: »

It depends what you mean by holding something back. Will we have a few set plays that Joe has concocted similar to the lineout move that the AB's used to win the last RWC or something like the move against the Italians that saw Earls cross the line, then i'd say yes.
But there's no way Murray was intentionally box kicking to such inaccuracy last week to try and fool the french. Same to be said for handling errors and indiscipline. The latter being of real concern to me.

The indiscipline doesn't worry me too much. If you exclude the two brain farts that POM had, we were down to eight penalties which is a tad above what we usually deem acceptable. After that we had one scrum penalty and the rest were at the breakdown afair. Garces was very strict in that area and even with the benefit of replays there's been a fair bit of discussion here on some of them.

Since Nigel is reffing the French match, I don't think we'll see us as much off his wavelength as we were with Garces.

The turnovers were more of a worry for me. 14 is way too high.

total former

D'Arcy in the Times today very much subscribes to the idea that we have been holding back in terms of our set attacking plays, keeping them in the locker etc. And I think that's plausible, you shouldn't need to break out the A-game to beat Italy.

Even allowing for that, we were still a long way short of where we should be, but no need to panic just yet.