Ryanair-Extortionate exchange rates ( Complaint to CCPC, ECC Ireland & Ryanair)

Flatzie_poo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you will never, ever, get that rate from you bank.

Wrong.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

Wrong.

There is no way your bank will charge the mid point rate, let alone do so without some element of additional cost.

Flatzie_poo

Dawson Purple Commando wrote: »

There is no way your bank will charge the mid point rate, let alone do so without some element of additional cost.

You've completely missed my point.

Market dictating, the EOD rate could be the exact same as a mid point. It's happened before. Although rare.

My point stands, it could be the exact same.

Flatzie_poo

Dawson Purple Commando wrote: »

Let alone do so without some element of additional cost.

We're talking about the FX rate, commissions etc are outside this.

user1842

For the exchanges rates that VISA and MasterCard set for their cards just check their websites:

For VISA:

http://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

Banks do not set the exchange rate, the card schemes do. The card schemes exchange rates are usually excellent and sometimes better the xe.com quoted rates.

However banks are free to add a currency conversion fee to the transaction. For AIB this is currently 1.75% of the euro value (Minimum €0.45, Maximum €11.00). Most banks show this as separate transaction on your statement.

Graham

user1842 wrote: »

Thats why you should always pay with your own currency at the point of sale or on-line.

Surely you mean always pay in the merchants default currency thus avoiding DCC.

If you're shopping on amazon.co.uk pay in £
If you're shopping on amazon.com pay in $
If your shopping on ryanair.co.uk pay in £
If you're shopping on ryanair.ie pay in €
If you're in a shop in London, pay in £
If you're in a shop in New York, pay in $

Generally speaking, if the first sign of your home currency is at the checkout when the merchant offers to convert, AVOID.

ohnonotgmail

user1842 wrote: »

For the exchanges rates that VISA and MasterCard set for their cards just check their websites:

For VISA:

http://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

Banks do not set the exchange rate, the card schemes do. The card schemes exchange rates are usually excellent and sometimes better the xe.com quoted rates.

However banks are free to add a currency conversion fee to the transaction. For AIB this is currently 1.75% of the euro value (Minimum €0.45, Maximum €11.00). Most banks show this as separate transaction on your statement.

you need to tell xe.com that their FAQ is wrong. http://www.xe.com/faq/rates_buyorsellrates.php

user1842

Graham wrote: »

Surely you mean always pay in the merchants default currency thus avoiding DCC.

If you're shopping on amazon.co.uk pay in £
If you're shopping on amazon.com pay in $
If your shopping on ryanair.co.uk pay in £
If you're shopping on ryanair.ie pay in €
If you're in a shop in London, pay in £
If you're in a shop in New York, pay in $

Generally speaking, if the first sign of your home currency is at the checkout when the merchant offers to convert, AVOID.

You're perfectly right. Sorry that was a typo by me.

user1842

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you need to tell xe.com that their FAQ is wrong. http://www.xe.com/faq/rates_buyorsellrates.php

Their FAQ is correct. Not sure what you mean. Im just stating that VISA/MasterCard sometimes give a better rate than mid-rate quoted by xe.com.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

We're talking about the FX rate, commissions etc are outside this.

Well actually we're talking about Ryanair V Bank rate and commission or card foreign currency charge is not outside that.

Graham

British consumers are charged an additional £300,000,000 per year a result of DCC

That's in excess of €410,000,000 or €426,000,000 if you opt for the security of an up-front exchange rate offered by the merchant :rolleyes:

Is anyone really suggesting consumers are paying this knowingly for the benefit of an incredibly poor but visible up-front exchange rate?

I wonder what the figures look like for Irish consumers.

MOH

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

You've completely missed my point.

Market dictating, the EOD rate could be the exact same as a mid point. It's happened before. Although rare.

My point stands, it could be the exact same.

And Ryanair's rate could end up being cheaper.

feargale

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if you have anything to back up this accusation of shilling you should report it to the mods. Similarly any posts that could be considered abuse or bullying.

I responded in general terms to a question posed in general terms by another poster. I accused nobody.

MOH wrote: »

And Ryanair's rate could end up being cheaper.

Or dearer, as they forgot to flag.

Power101, thanks again for alerting us. If you are disposed to added helpfulness you could google UX Dark Pattern and email submissions@darkpatterns.org.

Now I'm outa here.

delahuntv

Graham wrote: »

Does it only becomes a consumer issue after they reply?

I don't see a problem with the OP bringing this to the attention of consumers who otherwise may not be aware.

feargale wrote: »

So, anybody who reports an experience in Consumer Issues is whining? That's the second time you've used that word here. I'm grateful to OP for alerting us to this practice. You on the other hand seem to think it should be kept secret. I wonder why.

He/she can certainly comment on it here and bring it to peoples attention, but to send complaint to various agencies without even getting an initial response from Amazon or Ryanair, is ridiculous.

Also, why didn't the OP send a complaint to Amazon? or to every other site that uses dynamic currency conversion?

Or why not send the complaint to the merchant service providers who actually create the rate?

Or better still, don't click the option.

IMO, the OP got caught out and instead of saying "lesson learnt, next time I'll be more careful" he/she goes ona rant wantign to blame someone else for his error.


BTW - it also happens in almost every store in the UK if you are using a Euro credit /debit card, Same in USA, same in every country that uses a different currency.


One thing the OP did not mention is that many cards charge a fixed fee in addition to the rate - using DCC, (dynamic currecy conversion) there is no fixed fee. Hence on small value purchases the rate may be CHEAPER using DCC.

On Ryanair, you can get flights for £9.99 incl taxes - using DCC, that may cost you €14.20, clicking "pay in sterling" that would be €13.70 PLUS a foreign currency transaction charge of €1 - €2.

Therefore using DCC works out over 5% cheaper!

Graham

delahuntv wrote: »

to send complaint to various agencies without even getting an initial response from Amazon or Ryanair, is ridiculous.

No it's not ridiculous, in fact it's entirely appropriate where multiple organisations are misleading less financially savvy consumers on a wholesale basis.

UK and Ireland consumers are being fleeced to the tune on approximately half a billion Euro each year, the more complaints sent to the statutory/regulatory agencies the more likely they are to take action.

OP, congratulations and thanks for making your complaints official, out of all of the posters on this thread (myself included) you are the only one that's done something that may contribute to getting this addressed.

delahuntv

Graham wrote: »

No it's not ridiculous, in fact it's entirely appropriate where multiple organisations are misleading less financially savvy consumers on a wholesale basis.

UK and Ireland consumers are being fleeced to the tune on approximately half a billion Euro each year, the more complaints sent to the statutory/regulatory agencies the more likely they are to take action.

OP, congratulations and thanks for making your complaints official, out of all of the posters on this thread (myself included) you are the only one that's done something that may contribute to getting this addressed.

but the OP did no real checkingon who to complain about or to see how it works.

as per my post, there are scenarios where it would work out cheaper. (this alone makes his complaint invalid)


And as to who is repsonsible - its the merchant service providers, e.g First Data, Barclaycard, Elavon, Worldpay etc who offer the conversion.

So if the op came on telling people to watch out and looking for info on how it worked, he would have enedi=ed up with correct information, but by rushing in, the "complaint" will be binned as the facts are incorrect.

Graham

delahuntv wrote: »

On Ryanair, you can get flights for £9.99 incl taxes - using DCC, that may cost you €14.20, clicking "pay in sterling" that would be €13.70 PLUS a foreign currency transaction charge of €1 - €2.

Therefore using DCC works out over 5% cheaper!

I just checked against AIB, your example transaction would have a transaction charge of 45c. So even using your averagely unrepresentative example of a €9.99 all-in Ryanair flight DCC works out more expensive.

When you use the majority of bank cards, take the Ryanair average fare of €48 and assume that most people want return flights, the differences are more substantial.

Delahuntv, you appear to be carefully and deliberately selecting unrepresentative samples of both air fares and transaction charges.

Graham

delahuntv wrote: »

as to who is repsonsible - its the merchant service providers, e.g First Data, Barclaycard, Elavon, Worldpay etc who offer the conversion.

Customers contract is with Ryanair in this example, it is Ryanair who contract with the merchant service provider and Ryanair are the retailer of record. Ryanair are the organisation benefitting financially from the DCC rebate.

I think it's safe to say the responsibility lies with Ryanair.

user1842

I dont see why people are arguing the point. Ryanair states that if you dont use DCC you may pay more.

But actually in 99.9% of cases you paid less for not using it.

Ryanair should state that if you dont use DDC you may pay less.

This would be a more accurate statement.

Ryanair's statement is misleading and the OP is right to complain as it creates a false expectation that a customer might pay more.

lima

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

Wrong.

He is absolutely correct. To get the mid market rate would be nothing but a coincidence.

Flatzie_poo

lima wrote: »

He is absolutely correct. To get the mid market rate would be nothing but a coincidence.

My point was it's possible. What's hard for you to understand about that?

lima

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

My point was it's possible. What's hard for you to understand about that?

There's nothing hard about it mate.

Your point was that if you used the likes of xe you would get a 'far more accurate' rate when compared to the websites advertised rate.

Now you're saying that you could get that exact rate, market dictating.

Anythings possible. However that is highly unlikely.

Plus there is almost nowhere that you can get the XE rate. With regards to "EOD rate could be the exact same as a mid point" - I don't think there's an 'End of Day' rate, since xe factors in data from a wide variety of sources Currency rates can be updated even when their country's markets are closed.

Flatzie_poo

lima wrote: »

Anythings possible. However that is highly unlikely.

I explained that. Please read through the thread.

lima wrote: »

Plus there is almost nowhere that you can get the XE rate

You can get it from xe.com

lima wrote: »

With regards to "EOD rate could be the exact same as a mid point" - I don't think there's an 'End of Day' rate, since xe factors in data from a wide variety of sources Currency rates can be updated even when their country's markets are closed.

EOD rate will be what the PB's system takes into account on your foreign transactions. It'll be the one you'll see on your statement, proving it's not forward contract. The Mid point could be exactly this. Which you seem to agree with me on apparently;

lima wrote: »

Anythings possible.

ohnonotgmail

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

You can get it from xe.com

Unless "you" are a financial institution "you" cannot get the rate on xe.com .

user1842

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Unless "you" are a financial institution "you" cannot get the rate on xe.com .

You don't need to be a financial institution. I have an xe.com trade account and im not a financial institution. I used to use it when I was working in the UK and was converting euros. Way better rates than my bank especially when large sums were involved.

Flatzie_poo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Unless "you" are a financial institution "you" cannot get the rate on xe.com .

My point of using XE.com was for a more accurate rate.

ohnonotgmail

user1842 wrote: »

You don't need to be a financial institution. I have an xe.com trade account and im not a financial institution. I used to use it when I was working in the UK and was converting euros. Way better rates than my bank especially when large sums were involved.

so they allow you to both buy and sell at the rate advertised? Whats in it for them?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

My point of using XE.com was for a more accurate rate.

But the fact remains that that is not the rate you will get.

Flatzie_poo

Dawson Purple Commando wrote: »

But the fact remains that that is not the rate you will get.

It could be.

user1842

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so they allow you to both buy and sell at the rate advertised? Whats in it for them?

No idea but I believe they hedge and make profit on the margin. They gave me their mid rate most of the time but I believe this can change as they have some algorithm to lock in a rate for you.

I have not used it in a couple of years. I would need to dig out the emails.