Renua’s radical plan to abolish loads of taxes and the TV licence

jimgoose

Streetwalker wrote: »

No thanks. I bought my car for the sole reason of the low road tax. If you want to drive a 2 litre fast car then pay for the privilege...

What is in fact happening is I, and others like me, are paying for your privilege of driving whatever mileage you like for the same pittance rate of motor tax. How about you pay for the "Privilege"?

bear1

Streetwalker wrote: »

No thanks. I bought my car for the sole reason of the low road tax. If you want to drive a 2 litre fast car then pay for the privilege.

Thank god these clowns have zero chance of getting into power

So you bought a newer car solely for the cheap tax? Does that not sound ludicrous to you?
Did you do the calculations of costs etc when changing?

polan

bear1 wrote: »

So you bought a newer car solely for the cheap tax? Does that not sound ludicrous to you?
Did you do the calculations of costs etc when changing?

Look at his other posts in this forum, hardly a petrolhead:rolleyes:

Marty McFly

polan wrote: »

Look at his other posts in this forum, hardly a petrolhead:rolleyes:

You don't have to be a petrol head to see how ludicrous that post is though

Sadly though there plenty of people in Ireland who think like that.

Henry Ford III

jimgoose wrote: »

What is in fact happening is I, and others like me, are paying for your privilege of driving whatever mileage you like for the same pittance rate of motor tax. How about you pay for the "Privilege"?

He paid a bucket load of VAT/VRT don't forget, equivalent to many years of high road tax.

Nobody gets a free lunch.

bear1

Marty McFly wrote: »

You don't have to be a petrol head to see how ludicrous that post is though

Sadly though there plenty of people in Ireland who think like that.

It's mad. I jut did a quick, approx, estimation there on what it would cost me to do the same.
Have a 2.2 Accord (04), sell it for say 1500e and tax for the year I think is somewhere around the 700e mark.
I need a SW for family reasons and I do a lot of km per year so I'm in diesel land and in this case I want a 08 for cheaper tax.
Quick check on DD for the car I'd want is a 520d 2008 for 10.5k which is taxed and NCT.
I don't have 10k lying around to splash on a car so I go for a loan of 9k (1.5k) from the Accord.
Bank gives me a rate of 7.5% over 3 years which gives me a total loan of over 10k including interest.
I could tax my Accord for over 14 years before I'd reach the total amount of the 08 car.
Absolute madness.

duffman3833

bigroad wrote: »

There is a few problems with this.
1. people that laid out big money for new cars from 08 till now for cheaper tax.
2.younger generation that were pushed out to far away places but still have to commute big miles to work.
3.People jumping over the boarder for cheaper fuel.
Other than that its a great idea.

If people can lay out big money for a new car in first place should be able to afford the tax

duffman3833

bear1 wrote: »

It's mad. I jut did a quick, approx, estimation there on what it would cost me to do the same.
Have a 2.2 Accord (04), sell it for say 1500e and tax for the year I think is somewhere around the 700e mark.
I need a SW for family reasons and I do a lot of km per year so I'm in diesel land and in this case I want a 08 for cheaper tax.
Quick check on DD for the car I'd want is a 520d 2008 for 10.5k which is taxed and NCT.
I don't have 10k lying around to splash on a car so I go for a loan of 9k (1.5k) from the Accord.
Bank gives me a rate of 7.5% over 3 years which gives me a total loan of over 10k including interest.
I could tax my Accord for over 14 years before I'd reach the total amount of the 08 car.
Absolute madness.

Do the calculations for a 08 accord. BMW's are over priced

Special Circumstances

Streetwalker wrote: »

No thanks. I bought my car for the sole reason of the low road tax. If you want to drive a 2 litre fast car then pay for the privilege.

Thank god these clowns have zero chance of getting into power

When you use the words 2 litre and fast car together as if it is an automatic fact that one follows the other, you are obliged to spell "fast" as "fasht" and recite a decade of the rosary afterwards to calm your nerves.

bear1

duffman3833 wrote: »

Do the calculations for a 08 accord. BMW's are over priced

An 08 Accord will probably command the same amount of money, especially in estate form.
Just checked, there are 3 for sale as an 08 and the cheapest is 10.1k so 400e less.
I won't even bother re-doing the calculations as they will be the same.

jimgoose

bigroad wrote: »

1. people that laid out big money for new cars from 08 till now for cheaper tax.

Fcuk 'em. Thay've got new cars, haven't they? What do they want, Government cheques in the post for driving them??

bigroad wrote: »

2.younger generation that were pushed out to far away places but still have to commute big miles to work.

Shít 'appens, like. I hear Volkswagens are quite economical these days.

bigroad wrote: »

3.People jumping over the boarder for cheaper fuel.

Northern Ireland has this exact problem at the moment, and it crops up all over the world. It will be interesting to see if and how they go about solving it. At one stage a crowd called the Legitimate Oil Pressure Group were calling for identical taxation on both sides of the border to remove at least some of the motivation for this. That would obviously play hell with a plan like that suggested by Renua.

I suggest that all automotive fuel retailers in the RoI should mark their product with Accutrace S10, or equivalent, and anyone caught using a vehicle in this jurisdiction without fuel thus marked be given the high-jump under Revenue legislation. A bit draconian, you may say, and certainly not without cost. But it would annoy me to see a, for a change, completely fair polluter-pays system scuttled because of a handful of Hardy Bucks who happen to be situated close to a land-border.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

He paid a bucket load of VAT/VRT don't forget, equivalent to many years of high road tax.

Nobody gets a free lunch.

Indeed not. You should have a look at the VRT rates applicable to a 1.6 TDI Passat and, for example, a BMW 745. Criminal? Well, it couldn't be, could it!

Henry Ford III

jimgoose wrote: »

...Indeed not. You should have a look at the VRT rates applicable to a 1.6 TDI Passat and, for example, a BMW 745. Criminal? Well, it couldn't be, could it!

Just did.

Probably explains why few enough BMW 745's are sold new here.

Sleepy

While it's a brilliant idea and would, if properly implemented, reduce the tax taken from drivers without reducing the income gained by the government (due to the reduced costs of such a system), it'll never happen and for a number of reasons:

1. Renua won't get within an asses roar of having enough TD's to make a significant junior partner in a coalition with FG, never mind forming a government on their own.

2. SIMI would go nuts claiming it'd hurt new car sales and Irish politicians would listen to them because they don't have enough of an understanding of economics to realise that this would probably be a good thing for our economy (maintenance of existing cars providing more jobs and revenue to the Irish economy than the sale of new ones where the vast majority of revenue leaves the country).

3. Those driving all the 520d's etc. that benefit from the current system would tend to be a vocal section of the electorate and the major parties won't want to piss them off.

4. The PS unions would never allow so many of their members to be made redundant.

jimgoose

Sleepy wrote: »

While it's a brilliant idea...

To summarise: It hasn't a whelk's chance in a supernova, not because it isn't a good idea and the fairest way of going about taxing motorists, but rather because it would displease a vocal minority of interested parties who happen to have the ear of our clodhopper government. Business as usual! :pac:

Streetwalker

polan wrote: »

Look at his other posts in this forum, hardly a petrolhead:rolleyes:

You are right in regard cars, can't stand them but it's an evil I must endure in regards family travel. My passion is motorbikes and the road tax is only 88 a year on each and guess what no NCT on them either. Have three at present on the road and two classics in storage that are worth several times what I paid for them and only appreciating in value. Cars are what they are a method for getting from A to B in relative safety. Since im no petrol head could you advice me on if I out petrol or diesel in the bikes. Thanks :rolleyes:

Streetwalker

Special Circumstances wrote: »

When you use the words 2 litre and fast car together as if it is an automatic fact that one follows the other, you are obliged to spell "fast" as "fasht" and recite a decade of the rosary afterwards to calm your nerves.

No need for the rosary pal. The ZX14 does near on 186mph in restricted form but that's of course without the full akrapovic system, butterflies removed and flashed ECU. It's only a 1.4 litre though so im worried if it can outrun a micra?

Marty McFly

Streetwalker wrote: »

You are right in regard cars, can't stand them but it's an evil I must endure in regards family travel. My passion is motorbikes and the road tax is only 88 a year on each and guess what no NCT on them either. Have three at present on the road and two classics in storage that are worth several times what I paid for them and only appreciating in value. Cars are what they are a method for getting from A to B in relative safety. Since im no petrol head could you advice me on if I out petrol or diesel in the bikes. Thanks :rolleyes:

Ah now I get it you have a chip on your shoulder.

Special Circumstances

Are they fasht bikes? All dem bikes are so fasht! And so dangerous! Holy mother of God, padre pio and gay byrne may they restrict our throttle opening!

Gumbo

Streetwalker wrote: »

You are right in regard cars, can't stand them but it's an evil I must endure in regards family travel. My passion is motorbikes and the road tax is only 88 a year on each and guess what no NCT on them either. Have three at present on the road and two classics in storage that are worth several times what I paid for them and only appreciating in value. Cars are what they are a method for getting from A to B in relative safety. Since im no petrol head could you advice me on if I out petrol or diesel in the bikes. Thanks :rolleyes:

They should tax motorbikes on bhp per kg :rolleyes:

jimgoose

Streetwalker wrote: »

...My passion is motorbikes...:

Mine too. I'd be for leaving them on the same system they're on now, and giving them the choice to pay on fuel, as I suggested earlier for commercials.

kceire wrote: »

They should tax motorbikes on bhp per kg :rolleyes:

No they shouldn't. Motorcycles are fast, efficient and frugal on road space. They comprise a very small minority of road users and there is nothing to be gained by changing the particular tax rates currently applying to them. Also, I like them. Streetwalker and me, we're brothers in arms, as 'twere. Any more of that kind of talk and you'll be a designated Blood Bag tied to the nose of my Jaguar when the Apocalypse comes.

#MC1%Fcuk'EmAll

PurvesGrundy

What I can't get over in this country is the perception that more CC's equals greater power. Because a car is a 2.5 litre, the 'Paddy' mentality would classify it as a potential road rocket. Even insurance companies are guilty of using this logic.

I had a 2.5 litre car before that had only 144bhp. You could actually get a 2.3 litre T5 with 240bhp that was cheaper to tax just because it had less CC.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

jimgoose

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

What I can't get over in this country is the perception that more CC's equals greater power. Because a car is a 2.5 litre, the 'Paddy' mentality would classify it as a potential road rocket. Even insurance companies are guilty of using this logic.

I had a 2.5 litre car before that had only 144bhp. You could actually get a 2.3 litre T5 with 240bhp that was cheaper to tax just because it had less CC.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Dummind all them clever "Engineer" types with that there book-learning - a litre is eight horsepower, bah. :cool:

fancy pigeon

Marty McFly wrote: »

Ah now I get it you have a chip on your shoulder.

Theres always a handful of extremist militants. Thankfully, no one listens to them, akin to seagulls calling. All noise with no purpose but to cause an aural nuisance and sh*t on eveyone else

I can't see this proposed tax system work. It will be fiddled. There will be more complaints such as "my chape taaax sh*tbox is no longer chape to run"

Besides, what will happen to our beloved green dayyysel? Imagine the shame of running a tractor on white!

saabsaab

Yep, as far as I can calculate the extra price per litre would be 25 to 30 cent per litre. However, anyone using fuel would pay and in accord with the amount they use which seems fair. Also no admin etc re the car tax system and savings there.

Commercial vehicles would have to get some tax relief or something to stop their costs being raised too much but something could be worked out. Electric cars would also be out of the loop. Not a bad idea overall though but needs a bit of working out.

recipio

Bring it on. The current car tax system is a grossly unfair burden on the Irish people. I'll vote for Lucinda.

Sleepy

saabsaab wrote: »

Yep, as far as I can calculate the extra price per litre would be 25 to 30 cent per litre. However, anyone using fuel would pay and in accord with the amount they use which seems fair. Also no admin etc re the car tax system and savings there.

It really wouldn't surprise me to learn that the 15/20c difference between your calculations and those published in the papers of 5/10 would amount to the cost of the admin!

bear1

Well it was a short lived idea but looks like auld Noony is going for the fuel price increase instead:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fuel-hikes-on-cards-in-final-budget-talks-31589567.html

Sh1tbag OToole

Renua, aren't they the abortion crowd?

terrydel

Right wing, conservative gob****es that lot.
I'm emigrating if they get anywhere near power in this country.

JJJJNR

Definitely get my vote, but I would have to do a bit more investigation into them.

Nichard Dixon

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Renua, aren't they the abortion crowd?

Surely they are the anti abortion crowd, they do not favour aborting people.

Motor tax at least in principle allows it to be paid to local authorities, a fuel tax would be completely centralised.

Zubeneschamali

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

they do not favour aborting people.

I think you'll find that even most pro-abortion types are not in favour of aborting people.

You just disagree with them on what exactly is a person.

166man

terrydel wrote: »

Right wing, conservative gob****es that lot.
I'm emigrating if they get anywhere near power in this country.

Right wing conservative politics are what's needed in this country, especially when you see train drivers earning €60k a year.... What a farce.

Special Circumstances

166man wrote: »

Right wing conservative politics are what's needed in this country, especially when you see train drivers earning €60k a year.... What a farce.

Personally I'd be far more concerned about the farcical entry point to the top rate of tax and the farcical "justice" system in Ireland but I can't see any of the current crop making any great changes to either.

jimgoose

terrydel wrote: »

Right wing, conservative gob****es that lot.
I'm emigrating if they get anywhere near power in this country.

We don't have any proper right-wing conservative gobshítes in this country, unless you want to count a handful of sexually frustrated Bridies howling about what women do with their own bodies, but these don't feature on my radar at all. Right wing conservative gobshítes is exactly what's needed - a lot of people wouldn't know what hit them for the first time in their heavily-subsidised lives. :pac:

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Personally I'd be far more concerned about the farcical entry point to the top rate of tax...

Exactly. What kind of knob tax regime has the top rate kicking in a shade over the average industrial??

mfceiling

Savings...

No more "dodging" tax...no more garda checkpoints looking for no tax.
No more motor tax office and staff.
Every litre of fuel sold brings in revenue...even if you're buying it for a lawnmower or a generator.

Win win?

5W30

mfceiling wrote: »

Savings...

No more "dodging" tax...no more garda checkpoints looking for no tax.
No more motor tax office and staff.
Every litre of fuel sold brings in revenue...even if you're buying it for a lawnmower or a generator.

Win win?

Nope, we'll have both according to Noonan.

Motor tax stays the same and we get a 5 cent hike (or whatever it was) in fuel prices :pac:

CJhaughey

mfceiling wrote: »

Every litre of fuel sold brings in revenue...even if you're buying it for a lawnmower or a generator.

It already provides revenue as it stands.
60% of the fuel price is tax.

Special Circumstances

CJhaughey wrote: »

It already provides revenue as it stands.
60% of the fuel price is tax.

Caution! silly maths here by me but if you pay PAYE at the top rate then you pay €2.10 tax per litre of petrol. (Earn 2.60 to buy a 1.30 litre, of which approx 0.80 goes to government.)

I need to sell the scooby or get a cash in hand job...

166man

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Personally I'd be far more concerned about the farcical entry point to the top rate of tax and the farcical "justice" system in Ireland but I can't see any of the current crop making any great changes to either.

I agree with both. My post was just an example of what I was talking about.


Agree completely on the taxation rate btw.