Can we dispute a rent increase?

twiglet24

Hi, I realise some of these questions have been asked before, but I'm asking on behalf of my daughter and want to have my facts right.
Basically, she is one of four students renting an apartment who have just been told by the landlord that he is putting their rent up in November by €100 each. They currently pay €450 each plus bills.
This seems to be a huge hike, and we are questioning whether a) he is allowed to increase it by this much, and b)If he is allowed to increase it partway through a lease term. (I know he is allowed one increase in a 12 month period).
I know some will ask if it reflects the market rate for the area, and it's not a straight forward answer. The apartment building itself is in a good area and is a nice building, but this apartment is obviously geared for students. There are four bedrooms in what was obviously originally a two - bed roomed apartment. Two of the rooms have no windows at all, just a mechanical vent in the ceiling. The landlord never goes near the place and it is pretty shabby. The heating doesn't work, and last week they emailed to ask that it be fixed - then this week they are informed of a rent increase - coincidence?
I have checked the PTRB website and the tenancy doesn't appear to be registered either.
The girls are totally distraught so we are trying to see if we have options to dispute the rent increase. Any opinions?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Have the signed a 12 month fixed term lease? If so, then he cannot increase the rent during that period.

Are they paying €450 each??? That's €1,800 for a shabby two bedroom. Unless the property is in Manhattan, then it sounds like a rip off to me.

Penny Tration

It cannot be increased during a lease period.

If they have a lease stating x amount of money til May (example), he cannot charge more until may, as a lease is a legally binding contract.

Bananaleaf

On this note, if a lease has been signed but the tenant hasn't been sent a copy for themselves, is that a problem?

twiglet24

It is definitely a rip-off, but they are students, in Dublin, so apparently they are fair game...
Only one of the girls has her name on the lease, and she has been there around 15 months I think. The others have all rotated in as others have left. One girl has been there since May and the two others since July. They have all been paying their rent electronically into the landlord's account, but no lease has ever appeared.
We are trying to clarify whether the girl with her name on the lease signed a new one in May or just continued on and she will obviously have more rights than the other girls, but we just don't know where they stand.
We have told them to ring Threshold for advice tomorrow, and in the meantime we are starting to look at Daft for somewhere else.

dudara

The regulations say that all habitable rooms must have adequate natural lighting. It sounds like bedrooms without windows would be in violation of this.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,33422,en.pdf

Avada

This is only my opinion, but they should look for a new property to live in. Also, they should report the landlord to both the PRTB and to the local council, as it sounds like the landlord is not registered and the property is not fit for rental, both offences under relevant legislation/bye-laws.

TimeToShine

I am inclined to agree but I also think you should bear in mind how difficult and stressful it is to find student accommodation in Dublin. Weigh up the options and see if it's worth your while, perhaps try and negotiate with the landlord but the black and white "report him and move out" just won't cut it in practice.

Mellor

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Have the signed a 12 month fixed term lease? If so, then he cannot increase the rent during that period.

except that;

twiglet24 wrote: »

Only one of the girls has her name on the lease, and she has been there around 15 months I think.

Likely he hasn't gotten looked for a new lease to facilitate a hike

sasta le

Paying to his bank account leaves a paper trail

Avada

TimeToShine wrote: »

I am inclined to agree but I also think you should bear in mind how difficult and stressful it is to find student accommodation in Dublin. Weigh up the options and see if it's worth your while, perhaps try and negotiate with the landlord but the black and white "report him and move out" just won't cut it in practice.

It's stressful yes, but sleeping in a bedroom with no windows and just mechanical ventilation isn't right, and possibly just the tip of the iceberg. What about fire safety, other problems, etc. If the landlord is willing to let a property like that, god knows what other problems it has, and a persons safety isn't worth risking. Maybe I'm being ott, it's just an outside observation without knowing all the facts or the property.

sasta le

Just wondering how good are the reporting landlords avenues are in ireland?

Mrs OBumble

Avada wrote: »

It's stressful yes, but sleeping in a bedroom with no windows and just mechanical ventilation isn't right.

It's not great - but it's still a whole lot better than sleeping on the street or in a hostel.

By all means the young women concerned should look for alternative accommodation for themselves. But don't under-estimate the difficulty of finding this.

Magicmatilda

A two bed flat for 2200 seems quite excessive. It is possible that this could be beyond the market rate, a PRTB case may well win. But be warned that if you did not win, back rent would be payable.I would email a couple of agents in the area andenquire about the market rate for a 2 bed apartment, I would not mention the reason you are enquiring.

As regards minimum standards etc.. sounds like it should be reported to the local authority although if the girls want to stay then maybe wait til they are leaving.

Regards the heating, I would set a deadline as to when this should be fixed and if not you will get it fixed and deduct from the rent. 7 days would be a reasonable deadline and let the landlord know in writing.

davo10

Leaving aside all the questions over the quality of the apartment, regarding whether the LL can increase the rent "mid lease", yes he can in this case provided certain criteria are met. The only signed lease which seems to be in place is the one signed 15 months ago by the original tenant and going by that, then if the criteria are met for a reasonable increase, it can be raised. Students tend to sign leases based on the academic year or at most, one calendar year so in likelihood it continued on a part 4 basis.

Your daughter is not mid lease, she is bound by the terms of the original lease and part 4 thereafter, she seems to have replaced someone else. €450x4pm is a lot but it really depends on where the apartment is, my nephew is paying over €5k for 9 months in DCU accomadation so that is even more. Also as Mrs O'B posted, the LL will most likely have no problem whatsoever reletting the apartment if it is close to a third level institute but your daughter may find it very difficult to find a new place now.

runawaybishop

TimeToShine wrote: »

I am inclined to agree but I also think you should bear in mind how difficult and stressful it is to find student accommodation in Dublin. Weigh up the options and see if it's worth your while, perhaps try and negotiate with the landlord but the black and white "report him and move out" just won't cut it in practice.

Its difficult and stressful because cowboys like the LL in the OP are allowed to continue in business with sub-par illegal propertys and gouging tenants. No fire escape in the bedroom is a lot more serious than a LL that won't get the washing machine fixed promptly.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

newacc2015

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not great - but it's still a whole lot better than sleeping on the street or in a hostel.

By all means the young women concerned should look for alternative accommodation for themselves. But don't under-estimate the difficulty of finding this.

Neither is sleeping a room when there is a fire in the hallway and 2 young people die due to no escape route, as the room didnt have windows. There is a reason why bedrooms have to have a window, its an escape route incase of a fire.

IMO they are nearly better off in a 1 bedroom apartment and 2 sleeping on a sofa. Would tell someone living in Priory Hall "sure you better off not being on the street"?

Cathmandooo

Heisenberg. wrote: »

Are the PRTB appeals even worth going through? Anyone know the win rate?
I'm facing a third 10% increase in 3 years in Jan going off what a similar Apt. in my complex is currently being advertised for.

That would be the market rate then. Your landlord is entitled to charge the market rate. You'd have no case with the PRTB

Graham

Cathmandooo wrote: »

That would be the market rate then. Your landlord is entitled to charge the market rate. You'd have no case with the PRTB

Surely the market rate is based on achieved rents not advertised rents.

Cathmandooo

Graham wrote: »

Surely the market rate is based on achieved rents not advertised rents.

True but I'd well believe most advertised rents are being achieved if there's a pattern to what's being asked in the area. It's worth asking neighbours though.

newacc2015

Graham wrote: »

Surely the market rate is based on achieved rents not advertised rents.

There is a lot of people paying over the advertised rents for places, as if there is several people at a viewing. People will pay a bit more to get the place.

My parents as LLs have made it extremely rents are non-negotiable. They always let their places at the quoted rents and they are always pretty strong

Mrs OBumble

newacc2015 wrote: »

Neither is sleeping a room when there is a fire in the hallway and 2 young people die due to no escape route, as the room didnt have windows. There is a reason why bedrooms have to have a window, its an escape route incase of a fire.

i asked about this specifically in another thread (because the 2nd brm in my apartment only had a skylight not a window.

The answer given by a person who said that s/he did building fire safety work for their day job is that it's different for apartments than it is for houses: apartment buildings have different levels of fire detection and fire retardation built into them (door weights, auto-closing etc). So the external lighting requirement is based purely on human need for light, rather than fire-safety.

twiglet24

Thanks for all the replies to my query.

The girls are considering asking the landlord to leave the rent as is, since the increase would seem to put it well above market rent - similar properties in the same complex which are actual two bedrooms and which are well maintained and finished to a much higher standard, are being advertised in and around the current rent, if not lower.
We are concerned though that if they dispute it, he will try to evict them.

We have now seen what is supposed to be the most recent copy of the lease, which is from July 2013 and the girl who thought she was on the lease has discovered that she doesn't seem to be on it.
This means that currently none of the girls has their name on the lease, although they have all been paying rent directly to the landlord. Girl one has been there at least 12 months so we think she has part 4 rights - is that correct?
The last two girls have only been there since the beginning of July though, so technically the LL can "terminate the lease" without giving a reason can't he?
We have drafted a letter saying why we think he shouldn't raise the rent, and mention opening a dispute with the PRTB (the tenancy isn't registered though - we checked), but don't want to send it if it means two of the girls at least will be evicted.
We are going round in circles here trying to work out what is the best thing to do - 3 of the girls are final year students and need to focus on their studies - not where they are going to live!
He didn't even give proper notice of the increase - it wasn't in writing (according to Threshold and PRTB, e-mails or texts won't do) and it wasn't 28 days. They got an email on the evening of October 5th, so the 28 days starts from Oct 6th I think, so he can't apply the increase from Nov 1st in that case.
I'm sorry about the length of this post! I guess the burning question we are trying to resolve is - if we dispute this can he turn around and evict them?
Thanks

spaceHopper

By rights he would have to follow due process which means that he can't evict them eadily but from the sounds of it he's the type that would just change the locks.

Has the heating been fixed? If the council saw the place they might shut it down and could even prosecute him.

Get them to take photos and a walk through video then go to the students union for a face to face meeting to get proper advice.

If it was me I'd tell him to drop the rent or I'd go to the council ptrb and tax man then post a video of the place on Facebook making sure his name and home featured in it the get it to go virtual. Ireland is a small place he wouldn't want that

runawaybishop

spaceHopper wrote: »

By rights he would have to follow due process which means that he can't evict them eadily but from the sounds of it he's the type that would just change the locks.

Has the heating been fixed? If the council saw the place they might shut it down and could even prosecute him.

Get them to take photos and a walk through video then go to the students union for a face to face meeting to get proper advice.

If it was me I'd tell him to drop the rent or I'd go to the council ptrb and tax man then post a video of the place on Facebook making sure his name and home featured in it the get it to go virtual. Ireland is a small place he wouldn't want that

I'll seem a lot smaller in court for defamation. You'd want to be very very careful with that Facebook sh1te.

OP, no lease and in less than 6 months mean they can be evicted without reason.

Moonbeam

if 2 of the rooms have no windows he may be breaching health and safety regulations.
Are they PRTB registered?

campingcarist

twiglet24 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies to my query.

I'm sorry about the length of this post! I guess the burning question we are trying to resolve is - if we dispute this can he turn around and evict them?
Thanks

Residential Tenancies Act 2004
14.—(1) A landlord of a dwelling shall not penalise a tenant for—
(a) referring any dispute between the tenant and the landlord
to the Board for resolution under Part 6,
(b) giving evidence in any proceedings under Part 6 to which
the landlord is a party (whether the tenant is a party to
them or not),
(c) making a complaint to a member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na or
to a public authority in relation to any matter arising out
of, or in connection with, the occupation of the dwelling
or making an application regarding such a matter to a
public authority, or
(d) giving notice of his or her intention to do any or all of the
things referred to in the preceding paragraphs.
(2) For the purposes of this section a tenant is penalised if the
tenant is subjected to any action that adversely affects his or her
enjoying peaceful occupation of the dwelling concerned.

The_Conductor

He can't turn around and evict them- he can though use legitimate reasons to terminate the tenancy (such as allowing a family member stay there etc). In any event- proper notice would have to be given.

runawaybishop

The_Conductor wrote: »

He can't turn around and evict them- he can though use legitimate reasons to terminate the tenancy (such as allowing a family member stay there etc). In any event- proper notice would have to be given.

2 of the girls are there less than 6 months and have no lease. He can kick them out, with notice of course, without giving any reason.

The_Conductor

runawaybishop wrote: »

2 of the girls are there less than 6 months and have no lease. He can kick them out, with notice of course, without giving any reason.

And the other girl is out of lease- on a Part 4 tenancy- which also has specified termination terms and conditions.

So- in short- the landlord could use a refusal to pay the rent increase, as grounds to terminate the tenancies (though obviously he/she wouldn't put it this way).

The tenants (as a group) could dispute the rent increase- how and ever- if they were found against- it would apply from the original proposed date- and in any event- if they were unable/unwilling to afford it- they'd be back at the situation where they'd be seeking new accommodation...........

Not an ideal situation. For those there less than 6 months- I'd suggest put up and shut up- at least until a Part IV tenancy has kicked in (or else- immediately seek alternate accommodation)