Anxious Dog

Choc Chip

Hi all,

I've been lurking around the animal and pets forum for a couple of years now, reading up before I was in a position to get my own dog. I've come across some great resources in that time and I just wanted to say thanks for directing me to Patricia McConnell, Karen Pryor, Ian Dunbar and Dr Yin. The amount of knowledge I've gained from threads here and books/posters by the above has been amazing.

Anyway, we got our rescue dog about a week ago. She's around 4 or 5 years old and extremely nervous, particularly of new people or situations. We don't have much history but I believe she might have lived in a house at some point-she's house trained, comfortable with the vacuum cleaner and other household noises and hops easily into the car. Generally she's a dream and doesn't chew shoes etc, isn't leash reactive and settles quietly in the house during the day.

The problem started last night. She's slept in the kitchen since she arrived but the doors were open. 2 nights ago she cried for a while then came upstairs and slept outside our bedroom door. We'd rather she stayed downstairs, so last night we shut the kitchen door. For five minutes. When crying didn't work she destroyed the door - within 2 minutes there were massive chunks out of the wood. So, again, we let her sleep outside the bedroom door.

So, any ideas on how we should approach this? I'm planning on working up the time she spends in her crate but its not a short term solution and I'm worried about reinforcing the behaviour the longer we allow her to sleep outside our bedroom. I'm also scared to shut her in the crate at night incase she panics like she did last night (she's a big dog and was absolutely hurling herself about last night). Also, she's very finicky about food and doesn't understand kongs so its hard to put her into the crate with something to occupy her... Help! Any ideas for what to do tonight are welcome!!

VonVix

I have seen it happen in rescues. It's as if she's starting to realise that this is her home now, not just some place she is being left. She's starting to bond to you as her caregiver. There's lots of ways to try and tackle this (there's loads of people here who will drop in their ideas), but that said it can also be an awkward problem to solve. Ultimately you're trying to teach your dog that it's okay to be left alone.

Have you tried leaving the radio on for her? Have you tried teaching her "go to bed"? Had a thought that if she has a bed she loves, you can teach her to go into her bed from your bedroom door, then gradually(!) move the bed further and further out until its in the kitchen. You could even work on it during the day with the bed in the kitchen, encourage her to relax say with a long lasting chew (pigs ear, that kind of thing!) in her bed while you are cooking etc.

Is she a grazer when it comes to food? Often for dogs the smellier the better, I use cheese and tiny pieces of hotdog when training my new slow eating pooch.

DBB

I think the solution is staring you in the face op, vonvix has already mentioned it too.
Your new dog is feeling seriously insecure. To my mind, you need to go with the flow here and let her tell you what makes her feel safe. Once she feels safe over time, and time is what you need to give her, then you can start to push her boundaries little by little.
So, in short, let her sleep outside your bedroom door, for now. Set her up in the crate out there if you can, so that it becomes a symbol of safety for her. As she settles and becomes more secure in herself, you can start to move the bed/crate little by little. At the same time, as vonvix says, work on getting her relaxed and comfortable in a bed/crate downstairs. Time and patience are key here... In a way you're lucky that you have quickly found a place she can settle overnight. You might also consider putting her on a course of Zylkene or Calmex (non-prescription anxiety-reducing proteins) which you can buy online. Also consider a body-wrap... Look them up on YouTube!

Choc Chip

Thanks Vonvix - I hadn't thought about a radio but I'll pick one up today and see if that helps tonight.

She's been hanging out in the kitchen most days and is happy to chill out in her bed there during the day (even if I head out to the shops). It only seems to be night time that we're developing an issue (maybe because she can still hear us but can't get to us?).

I might try your idea of moving her bed upstairs then slowly moving it down over time. Unfortunately, she doesn't have a clue what chews are so I can't encourage her to stay in one place with them. Training her to go to her bed (or do anything) is a bit difficult at the moment too because she's just not interested in food or toys - I'm hoping this might change when she becomes more comfortable. Right now I can toss pieces of hot dog or cheese right over to her and she's still hesitant of taking them, never mind doing something to get them!

Choc Chip

Cheers DBB, I'll check out those proteins and pop a bed for her outside our bedroom door (I had a quick look at the crate there and there's not a hope it'll fit in the hallway upstairs).

I'd been considering getting her a thundershirt but if anxiety wraps are better then I'll look at getting one of these instead...

Thanks again for the advice!

tk123

Thundershirts and anxiety wraps are the same thing - the thundershirt comes with a money-back guarantee though I have one for my dog and it really helps him settle - especially if he has to be left at the vets or for fireworks which have started in our area

Another thing I'd recommend is a stair gate (you may need a taller dog one if she's able to jump over). You can still confine her but she'll be able to see through/over the gate - my dog is anxious when he's left alone and the gate works much much better than closing the door. He's broken out of crates btw or injured himself trying to so you're right not to just lock her in downstairs and hope for the best. Adaptil may help too or even lavender oil on her bedding.

For training how is she with praise/a cuddle for a reward rather than treats or a toy? My other dog (not anxious thank god) isn't always into treats (she does love toys) and praise/petting her would be just as high-value as hotdogs!

Choc Chip

tk123 wrote: »

For training how is she with praise/a cuddle for a reward rather than treats or a toy? My other dog (not anxious thank god) isn't always into treats (she does love toys) and praise/petting her would be just as high-value as hotdogs!

You're right tk123 - she's more motivated by pleasing people than food/toys. She happily took to lying on her bed rather than the new sofa when we called her down and gave her lots of rubs on it. And she'll come running when you call her and give her lots of praise. I'd love to get started on some basic training (even just sit) but she's very uncomfortable with either a clicker (even in my pocket she's suspicious of the noise) or using food as a lure. I've started using "yes" instead of the clicker but I think I'm just going to have to be patient and wait for her to relax before expecting too much of the poor girl.

DBB

Re thundershirt vs body wrap, I hadn't time to wax lyrical earlier, so here's some more info! I suggested trying a body wrap so that you could suss out whether it works before you invest in a Thundershirt. As tk says, they're the same thing, only the body wrap is a cheap home-made job that shouldn't be used unless the dog is supervised/you're at home.
If you find it has an effect, then bull ahead with buying a Thundershirt, as these are safe to leave a dog alone with.
I'd also corroborate what tk says about baby gates, and the whole idea of the dog feeling more at ease as long as they don't feel closed in. I've lost count of the dogs I know with separation anxiety when confined, but are fine if given the run of a few rooms... But there is a leap of faith to be made here as there's a sometimes well-founded fear that the dog might wreck the place! Always a good idea to test things with short absences at first!
Not that any of this applies to you op, as your problem is only at night.
A nightlight might help too.
Re reinforcement, I've had a couple of dogs that were motivated by neither food nor toys... You can usually build up one or both with time, but I always try to find a spot the the dog loves to be scritchy-scratched or tickled, and pair that with happy verbal praise. It's so cute when they come looking for it once they know it's up for grabs
Good luck op, fair play to you for adopting!

Rorok

Keep her/he with you in the bedroom, but DO NOT keep her in there, otherwise she will never sleep downstairs, that happend to my friend now whenever he tries to put his dog downstairs it cries all night

tk123

Rorok wrote: »

Keep her/he with you in the bedroom, but DO NOT keep her in there, otherwise she will never sleep downstairs, that happend to my friend now whenever he tries to put his dog downstairs it cries all night

The OP is dealing with an anxious older dog though so any of the rules say for a puppy or younger dog don't apply. With an anxious dog you need to establish what their comfort zone is first of all, and work within that small comfort zone until the dog is ready to broaden it.

Choc Chip

Sigh. I had to go out on Monday during the day so had someone pop in to let her out at lunchtime and she completely freaked. Running, cowering, shaking and had an accident in several places throughout the house. I'm slowly getting over my guilt about putting her in this position, and I can manage this for at least the next few months. I was planning on trying the ideas suggested here before seeking more help. Right now I think she's shut down most of the time and I thought time was the thing she most needed.

However, now I'm wondering whether I should look at getting help from a behaviouralist in the short term. Am I being naive to think I can improve matters myself over the next few months?

tk123

I think you can only benefit from a behaviorist visit and it could save you a lot of time - they're looking at you and the dog and will be able to guide you with your training methods? For Bailey we knew what we had to do but getting a fresh perspective and different ideas on it really helped. Have you tried X,Y,Z ok well try this then etc etc

DBB

I would worry that things could get worse if her worst fears are being confirmed to her... For instance, she's afraid of strangers, but a stranger came into her space the other day, a place she's not yet comfortable in and without you there to act as a security blanket. This kind of thing can really set a scared dog back. This is why I feel you need to consult a good behaviourist now, so that you can make preparations for when you have to go out, and learn how to manage her and her environment in a way that is most likely to reduce her stress, in her specific environment.
Separation anxiety requires a seriously rigorous routine and management, it can in some cases require medication, which should not itself happen without a well-structured schedule of training and management.
Sorry op, I know you wanted to avoid the outlay, but I think you probably need to bite the bullet on this one

rockinmama

Our Boarder Collie is extremely wired and suffered a good bit from separation anxiety, thundershirt was great (until he ate it), crate was great (until he tried to get out a few times and hurt himself), he would soil the floor every night right up until a year and a few months until we started using Adaptil and had moved his sleeping area to somewhere where he feels more in control, bizarrely he's better since we moved, sleeps in the hall at the bottom of the stairs where the baby gate is so he can see us when we're upstairs. I'd say you're right that she might need a behaviourist though, the stranger anxiety is a difficult one and would be harder to deal with on your own. Congrats on your new dog though! Nothing like them!

Choc Chip

Not so much wanting to avoid the outlay off a behaviourist as thinking she might benefit from it more when she'd had time to settle in with us. I think at this stage though I need someone to take a look at us and make sure we're doing the right things for her. Could someone pm me the details of any behaviourists they would recommend in the Munster area (not sure if recommendations are permitted on thread).

Just to note, if someone reading this finds themselves in a similar situation, she'd met the person who was letting her out on a few occasions and had spent several hours with them quite happily one time. It seemed to be the context of them entering out home without us being there that terrified her. Just a reminder to be wary of differing contexts I suppose.

fathead82

I know how you feel OP, I have a very nervous little terrier, she has so many odd habbits and fears. Sometimes she likes certain people & sometimes she acts like they are coming at her with a chainsaw! Over time we have learned what sets her off , for example,when she is inside in her bed, we don't even look at her, that's the way she likes it.she knows my brothers very well but very rarely let's them touch her.she can't be put on a lead, cant be picked up, no sudden moves around her, must always have an escape route, cant be approached directly, must have a clear path from door to bed,the list goes on and on! She loves a good back scratch from people she is comfortable with and that sets her off wiggling, licking and pawing at your leg, so it's not all doom and gloom with her.
It will take time but I'm sure you will figure out her little quirks and how to work around them. Our dog will never be the happiest dog in the world but thats out of our control, all we can do is try to make her life as stress free as possible.

maggiepip

Its difficult OP, Ive been there! We adopted a collie, 5 years ago now and she was an absolute nervous wreck. The rescue we got her from said she was one of the most nervous dogs they'd taken in. She was so bad that you couldn't even walk normally around her, we had to walk in a slow quiet way or she'd be in the corner shaking. Any sudden movement and she was gone as far away as she could get.
We allowed her to do everything at her own pace, gave her the run of the house with hidey holes available if she got scared (we pulled out the bed upstairs so there was a corner for her to go, we made a space behind the living room chair so she could hide there if she wanted etc.. The psychology, we felt, was she would never feel trapped if she panicked. We never forced her to do anything and left her be to come to us for attention when she felt up to it. She slept wherever she wanted too (she chose to sleep on our bed) . Giving her this freedom allowed her to gain some control and make some choices for herself, places to go and calm down and to choose to interact at her own pace. She very slowly,over months,improved so much, but its a slow process. I'd say it took a whole 6 months for her to get anywhere near normal (whats normal for a collie that is!) Now 5 years on and theres no stopping her!
The fact that we had 2 other confident dogs helped her a lot too.
We concentrated on things she loved from day 1 which was her walks and going for drives in the car and food.
The more you can reduce their stress the more their little minds can start to heal. And giving "escape" options helps hugely with panic.
It takes time but you'll get there.

maggiepip

maggiepip wrote: »

We allowed her to do everything at her own pace, gave her the run of the house with hidey holes available if she got scared (we pulled out the bed upstairs so there was a corner for her to go, we made a space behind the living room chair so she could hide there if she wanted etc.. The psychology, we felt, was she would never feel trapped if she panicked.
The more you can reduce their stress the more their little minds can start to heal. And giving "escape" options helps hugely with panic.
It takes time but you'll get there.

Totally agree. My dog was nervous when I first got her. Not hugely nervous but, for example, she would cry if she heard a car pull up outside. Maybe she thought she'd get taken away again, I dunno. She had her own little quirks and in those early days we realised when she was scared she was squeezing herself into the small space between the wardrobe and the wall. We started calling it her 'special place' and my partner went and got a lovely fleecy blanket for her and folded it into the space so it would be extra cosy. She still goes in there if she's spooked by something or just wants alone time. It was definitely a really great comfort to her in the beginning though. She also uses her crate now as a safe place. We have a blanket over that so it's a little cave for her and comfy bed in it too.

Choc Chip

Just another plea for any behaviouralist recommendations in the Munster region - the more she is bonding to us the more stressed she is becoming when we leave her at any time and it appears to be developing quickly into full blown separation anxiety.

rockinmama

Best bet is to get a Vet approved trainer or behaviourist, there's a lot of posts throughout the years here and it seems it's a contentious issue, our vet recommended we used a trainer in Swords who was extremely caring and obsessed with dogs (always good), trains them for shows etc, all ethical non stressful training and doesn't use choke chains etc which can turn a stressed dog into a "problem" dog. Afraid I don't know anyone in Munster!

tk123

OP check out apdt.ie for somebody near you

Dilbert75

tk123 wrote: »

OP check out apdt.ie for somebody near you

+1

Sent you a pm op