Building a PC for a machine application

traco

Howdy, I'm looking for some advice and figured here is the best place to start. Its a small company ( 2 people but really just me on the tech side and I'm no guru).

We have devleoped a new product for industry and require PC's, I could go to Dell and buy off the shelf but due to the nature of the product and industry I need to standardize on a chipset and config with windows 8.1 or 10. Once built everything needs to be locked down and I was going to repeat each time. Something like ghosting that system for every subseqent build.

These units if successfull will be installed globally so support and ease of repair is also a consideration.

Where should I start with suppliers to get an ATX board that will be the same for the next few years, cases, etc. Is there companies that could do this for me or should I just go the Dell off the shelf route?

If anybody has an idiots guide to same I would appreciate it.

Alanstrainor

How many systems are you thinking?

But even from what you've said, I would not go the custom route. Dell desktops with hardware support has to be the only logical route. Their warranty service for business customers is still good.

The logistics of having to repair, and replace parts on many custom machines dotted around the place would worry me greatly.

traco

If successfull then lots but initally 5-10.

I agree about standardizing but I have bought 2 laptops and a dell tower. Laptops were a disaster as they are not reliable whatsoever for teh application but was hoping they would have worked for ease of demos / onsite trials etc.

The Tower is working OK but I still see problems, I'm running umcompressed HD vidoe through USB 3.0 and if the USB 3.0 shipset is flaky in anyway then it falls over. Intel chipsets appear best and ideally Z97 going forward.

I need to get a new system now and hence was considering a build and replicate so that we had total control of install and drivers to ensure it as we want. OEMs install an awfull lot of crap that I don't want. I don't know if its possible to configure a system to just come blank from Dell with no OS and install windows seperatly?

I was also thinking about a gigabyte brix, the small form factor is really nice but I have concerns about heat and reliability.

Its a hard one - I don't want to have to sell and support PC's but I'm worried about the possible PC issues we might see if we don't control them and them end up with a product thats percieved as unreliable due a PC issue.

ressem

You could contact https://marketing.dell.com/oem to see what they'd suggest.

For Dell, low volume industrial applications and kiosks they'd be pushing you towards
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/oem/optiplex-xe2
Question is, will your application choke on the older hardware spec.
Have you tested to discover what bottleneck or interrupt caused the laptops to fail?

Larger customers might insist on getting the hardware and placing under their existing hardware support contract.

Will it be placed in harsh industrial setups where liquids, heat, vibration, being jostled by machinery might be an issue?
Maybe a VESA form factor PC that can be mounted to the back of many monitors might be preferable, and the entire lot put in a case?

http://cabinetpro.ie/vesa-mount-pcs/
(Some of the Dell Optiplex micro range could fit like that.)

The windows install would be a concern.
The OEM supplied version of windows 8.1 / 10 Pro is not stable enough for a kiosk style setup, from what I've met.
You'll want to get a volume license for Windows 10, to give you access to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (With the video requirement I'm guessing that your application isn't suited to Windows embedded, nor running across thin clients).

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt219051(v=vs.85).aspx

There are of course manufacturers that will provide different form factors
or

http://www.kontron.com/products/systems/industrial-computers/
http://www.logicsupply.com/eu-en/products/industrial-computers/

but best avoided until your company is up and running. Added complexity you don't need.

ED E

Why oh why are you pushing raw video over USB? Its only a new concept and prone to problems.

traco

ressem wrote: »

You could contact https://marketing.dell.com/oem to see what they'd suggest.

For Dell, low volume industrial applications and kiosks they'd be pushing you towards.

Cheers for all the info, fair play for taking the time - I've been on the phone to Dell and also Lenovo to see what options they have.

None of them will supply a blank system, they all install their own windows OS complete with their tools etc, they also build what I guess they think will meet 99% of peoples needs and I still have to find one with a higher chipset.

I have considered the industrial PC route but usually those will be an older type config and thus the USB 3.0 and the chipset could present potential problems. They also tend to use smaller main boards and that could present potential problems also.


@ED E "Why oh why are you pushing raw video over USB? Its only a new concept and prone to problems."

I know, I have lots of problems with USB 3.0 and video but it suits my application and its a single cable allowing me to control everything on the system.

Tests have been done running two HD feeds via a USB 3.0 hub on a single cable and controling the camera and other hardware but there are potential problems.

I am 99% sure my camera and hardware are good, I believe most of my issues are due to USB 3.0 implementaion and chipsets on the PC side. Hence the full size ATX board and latest chipsets as I know that these are running reliably.

Also it allows me product devlopment options going forward and while painful now I think it will be worth it in the long run - if it was easy everyone would be doing it

CreepingDeath

Just a thought... why rely on the motherboards USB 3 implementation at all.

If you had a reliable PCIe USB 3 add-on card, then that would free you from specific motherboards with specific USB chipsets.

ressem

There's a lot that can cause issues with high bandwidth USB3.

From: http://www.ptgrey.com/white-paper/USB3-Best-Practices

USB3 cable length is much more sensitive, try with a decent 30cm cable.
Laptops using only a single PCI-e channel across all USB ports in the system on many motherboards. Even mice and keyboards can cause hiccups in transfers.

Might be a useful read for you.

The Intel 100 series chipsets should be out in a month, with PCi express 3 on most models, which might help out (or have early bugs, the usual cointoss).

traco

Cheers for replies. I have and i7 with Z170 chipset ordered. Hopefully have it in two weeks and if that can't run it reliably then it's over to a frame grabber.

Fingers crossed and I'll update how it performs. I'll continue debugging the SW now with all the non video quirks.

Now I know why people build apps!! Much simpler than building boards, firmware and software, finding out something doesn't work then starting again from the bottom. But like building a house, finding out the sink is clashing with the bed and having to tear it back and redo the foundations to build it up again.