Paternity Leave

seamus

jlm29 wrote: »

That's interesting regarding the leave applying to edd rather than actual dob- I'd say there'll be a flurry of people with due dates the few days before asking doctors to record them as sept 30th!

It will be a matter of much confusion.

I'm actually wrong, re-looking at it, I'll edit my post.

The act uses "date of confinement" from one of the Social Welfare laws, which means the actual date on which the child is born.

But the act also specifies that an employer requires 4 weeks' notice before the exepcted week of confinement.

If the child arrives early, the parent can activate their paternity leave early.

However, going by the law as written, if the EDD is 2nd October and the parent gives appropriate notice but the child is born on 29th September, the parent loses their right to paternity leave.

It's a small issue that will go away very quickly, but could be a source of much pain for a few parents.

ChewChew

I know some private sector companies, as well as the public sector, top up a mothers maternity benefit so it'll be interesting to see if those that do this already for maternity leave will do the same for paternity leave. This is definitely a hugely welcomed change and I'm sure there's many dads out there who'll be more than happy with the option of the leave!

Skittlebrau

ChewChew wrote: »

I know some private sector companies, as well as the public sector, top up a mothers maternity benefit so it'll be interesting to see if those that do this already for maternity leave will do the same for paternity leave. This is definitely a hugely welcomed change and I'm sure there's many dads out there who'll be more than happy with the option of the leave!

My employer has confirmed the two weeks at full pay anyway. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

nikkibikki

Skittlebrau wrote:

My employer has confirmed the two weeks at full pay anyway. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

For all employers who top up maternity pay, it'll surely be unequal to not top up paternity?

seamus

nikkibikki wrote: »

For all employers who top up maternity pay, it'll surely be unequal to not top up paternity?

Correct. It would be a brave employer who would fight an equality case to pay maternity pay but not paternity.

matsy1

It makes no sense. If you can use the two weeks leave within the first six months then the date of birth shouldn't come into it. I know people who recently had a baby and didn't use their three days because they were waiting on this. We are expecting in September and I plan on using my paternity leave at Christmas so I'll only be entitled to three days but a coworker would get two weeks at the same time and both our babies would basically be the same age?? Strange.

PhoenixParker

matsy1 wrote: »

It makes no sense. If you can use the two weeks leave within the first six months then the date of birth shouldn't come into it. I know people who recently had a baby and didn't use their three days because they were waiting on this. We are expecting in September and I plan on using my paternity leave at Christmas so I'll only be entitled to three days but a coworker would get two weeks at the same time and both our babies would basically be the same age?? Strange.

It is strange, but it often happens with a new law when there's a cut off date.

I think it's also worth bearing in mind that there's your entitlements and what an employer is prepared to give you (which could well be in addition to your entitlements).

There's nothing to stop a company giving any male employee 2 weeks unpaid leave upon the birth of their baby if the company wants to do so. For even the biggest companies, that would only be a handful of fathers with babies born from April onwards. They'll have to facilitate it from now on anyway, so as a goodwill gesture many company's should be amenable.

The only difference then is that the government won't pay the two weeks benefit for babies born pre-September, which does suck.

matsy1

PhoenixParker wrote: »

It is strange, but it often happens with a new law when there's a cut off date.

I think it's also worth bearing in mind that there's your entitlements and what an employer is prepared to give you (which could well be in addition to your entitlements).

There's nothing to stop a company giving any male employee 2 weeks unpaid leave upon the birth of their baby if the company wants to do so. For even the biggest companies, that would only be a handful of fathers with babies born from April onwards. They'll have to facilitate it from now on anyway, so as a goodwill gesture many company's should be amenable.

The only difference then is that the government won't pay the two weeks benefit for babies born pre-September, which does suck.

Hopefully that's the case, maybe after its all done and dusted I'll give my 4 weeks notice in November and see how many days I get.

TheDoc

Digs wrote: »

I'd imagine if employers top up maternity leave they'll top up paternity leave. If they don't top up maternity they can't very well top up paternity leave.

I'm going to be the litmus test for my company on this. We are due end of September.

I know maternity leave is topped up, but my company are notorious penny pinchers. They also just went through a very disappointing and underwhelming salary review with me, so sincerely hope they don't try shaft me twice. Whilst the state payment is generous, I couldn't afford to take two weeks off with just that, I'd need my employer topping up to my full amount, of I'd need to just pass on the two weeks.

Interesting if there is any metric of feedback or record for not taking those two weeks. Hopefully government take some form of record or have feedback avenues in place.

I've had some preliminary discussions with my boss about it, nothing major coming from it other then she will give me feedback from on high about how they are structuring it. Hasn't been mentioned, but I'm assuming to myself there is a certain aspect of it also fitting in with my teams resourcing and that it has to suit. Granted I'm a team of one, I rarely have hassle with my leave

seamus

matsy1 wrote: »

It makes no sense. If you can use the two weeks leave within the first six months then the date of birth shouldn't come into it. I know people who recently had a baby and didn't use their three days because they were waiting on this. We are expecting in September and I plan on using my paternity leave at Christmas so I'll only be entitled to three days but a coworker would get two weeks at the same time and both our babies would basically be the same age?? Strange.

The issue really is that the law cannot be retrospective. So if the law says that you are entitled to paternity leave within six months of the birth of your child, but your child is born before the law comes into force, then legally the law can't apply to you even though you're within the six month period.

It's irritating, but having a "start date" removes the ambiguity about who the law applies to when it's enacted.

Harika

It is fixed now: http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0713/802226-cabinet-parental-leave/

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33199&&CatID=59&StartDate=01%20January%202016&OrderAscending=0

I am little confused, as I think it says it is for babies born after the 31st of September, while in the news and on radio it says for babies born after 1st of September.

Our baby is due on the 30th of August, so could there could still be a chance?

lazygal

There's only 30 days in September!

MaxPower131

If my reading of the bill is correct it states that it is for children born after September 30th. However today there seems to be an amendment proposed which will change that date to September 1st.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2016/4316/b4316d-drn.pdf

Pawwed Rig

MaxPower131 wrote: »

If my reading of the bill is correct it states that it is for children born after September 30th. However today there seems to be an amendment proposed which will change that date to September 1st.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2016/4316/b4316d-drn.pdf

Must be a Fine Gaeler due in September.

TheDoc

To be honest all the reporting I'd read from the get go on this mentioned September 1st. Vardaker also confirmed September 1st in interviews after the publication the other week. So not sure where Sept 30th is coming from.

Bacchus

I was hearing a lot about the 30th Sept up until the legislation actually passed (it's even in the original bill... https://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2016/4316/b4316d.pdf). However since it passed everyone is saying 1st Sept... my wife is due in November though so I should be safe enough Only remaining question now is what stance my company will take on it.

BKWDR

Yeah in the budget the date given was Sept 1st but when he announced the leave a month ago on Fathers day on his facebook video he said the 30th of September.

Harika

Seems the date was amended in the last change.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SP16000196

Markx

This is great as my wife is due Oct 2. Anyone know when this bill becomes a stone-cold legal certainty and I can pirouette into HR and place a copy on the desk?

TheDoc

Markx wrote: »

This is great as my wife is due Oct 2. Anyone know when this bill becomes a stone-cold legal certainty and I can pirouette into HR and place a copy on the desk?

I'd probably speak to them now. Unless you have a rake of potential Dads in your place, youll be the litmus test. Like me in my company.

We don't have HR so its being arranged with my manager. They are already comfortable with the times involved(I'm a team of one so tbh I rarely have issues with leave) and my boss is just awaiting from high confirmation of what top up is being required.

As mentioned before, expecting it to match maternity leave(which just so happens to topup to salary level)

Markx

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd probably speak to them now. Unless you have a rake of potential Dads in your place, youll be the litmus test. Like me in my company.

We don't have HR so its being arranged with my manager. They are already comfortable with the times involved(I'm a team of one so tbh I rarely have issues with leave) and my boss is just awaiting from high confirmation of what top up is being required.

As mentioned before, expecting it to match maternity leave(which just so happens to topup to salary level)

Yes, I will possibly be the first to avail of this so have to get it right for those who follow. They have already agreed I can have 2 weeks unpaid leave but with the legislation I don't see how a company can legitimately pay maternity and not paternity, so I'll be making that point when it's all official.

Also, I wouldn't like the two weeks to be seen as the company doing me some sort of favour, so the legislation is important in that respect too.

BKWDR

Anyone have any update on when this is actually going to be enacted or signed by the president.
I take it that it has missed the TDs summer break

AdrianII

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Explains it all there.

BKWDR

AdrianII wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Explains it all there.

i asked , when it was being enacted.

AdrianII

BKWDR wrote: »

i asked , when it was being enacted.

Did you even click in the link

The proposed provisions will apply to births and adoptions on or after 1 September 2016.

Pawwed Rig

AdrianII wrote: »

Did you even click in the link

The proposed provisions will apply to births and adoptions on or after 1 September 2016.

Can't see too many adoptions happening in August. I would be postponing meetings to get past the deadline

I actually thought the birth rate would be affected. Will be interesting to see if anyone held of when the stats come out.

lollpop

AdrianII wrote: »

Did you even click in the link

The proposed provisions will apply to births and adoptions on or after 1 September 2016.

The key word there being PROPOSED. The link says this will apply when the bill is enacted. It does not say when this is going to happen. Given the Dail is on summer break, it's not clear that this is actually law yet.

BKWDR

Thanks, difference between a bill being proposed with amendments and being enacted.

nialldinho

More details today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paternity-leave-dads-need-public-services-card-to-apply-1.2742661

Video in this link:

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/2016/08/02/leo-varadkar-posts-video-explaining-paternity-benefit-scheme/

TheDoc

nialldinho wrote: »

More details today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paternity-leave-dads-need-public-services-card-to-apply-1.2742661

Video in this link:

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/2016/08/02/leo-varadkar-posts-video-explaining-paternity-benefit-scheme/

Ugh there is always a catch isn't there. I have the old Social Services Card, so now need to get one of these Public Service Cards.

Out to Coolock aswell, ffs