OpenEVSE

BoatMad

Just came across the OpenEVSE project , very interesting , low cost J1772 controller.

very interesting , I'm coming to build one for the heck, it would allow me to select charging limits right upto the 6.6 kw limit in the leaf, ( if my house can take it - Jim )

Yeah, price of the kits have gone down a lot. They used to be around $300 mark, now half that. One of those would make a handy travel EVSE as you could have a fixed 32A plug and then multiple adaptor leads for different power sockets and adjust the input current accordingly.

BoatMad

I was thinking of using it instead of the ESB one as I can easily supply 6Kw from my board ( which is right beside my EVSE potential install point ( just a big cable out the wall ) installed by a RECI of course !

I cant see why the ESB one is limited to 16 A, its daft

I think these 16 A ones are still the original batch of 2000 ESB ordered back in the day when no car could charge at anything higher than 16 A.

Check out these lads too.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/juicebox

Their AC to DC ChaDeMo chargers would be really cool to get 22 Kw from the standard street charge points.

They have the chargers and ChaDeMo controllers here.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Check out these lads too.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/juicebox

http://www.smartevse.nl/

http://www.e-driver.net/english-mobile-chargebox-juice-booster-1/

Smart EVSE is very tempting at that price! Although to build that to a fully working EVSE would require good bit of kit, including enclosure, contactor, Type 2 socket etc. etc.

cros13

samih wrote: »

Smart EVSE is very tempting at that price! Although to build that to a fully working EVSE would require good bit of kit, including enclosure, contactor, Type 2 socket etc. etc.

I think the open source EVSEs are useful if you want to do creative things... like build charging into the design of a building or portable EVSE solutions.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

I cant see why the ESB one is limited to 16 A, its daft

They have their reasons .

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

http://www.smartevse.nl/

http://www.e-driver.net/english-mobile-chargebox-juice-booster-1/

The E-driver.net portable EVSE looks brilliant but expensive with conenctors and as far as I can see won;t fit a Leaf Type I connector ?

The ESB public charge points are Type II so that should be fine.

It says "charging from 1.8-22 Kw yet says 32 amps, but 32 amps at 400 volts is 12,800 Kw or am I missing something ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

They have their reasons .

Which are. ?

Given I know I can support 6kw. I can setup open evse to request that ( or less ) power consumption

It seems crazy to buy the 6.6 and not be able to use it at home

Dave

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Which are. ?

Given I know I can support 6kw. I can setup open evse to request that ( or less ) power consumption

It seems crazy to buy the 6.6 and not be able to use it at home

Dave

All I can say publicly is that you can install your own 32 amp home EVSE.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

The E-driver.net portable EVSE looks brilliant but expensive with conenctors and as far as I can see won;t fit a Leaf Type I connector ?

The ESB public charge points are Type II so that should be fine.

It says "charging from 1.8-22 Kw yet says 32 amps, but 32 amps at 400 volts is 12,800 Kw or am I missing something ?

Yes leaf is the oddity as the others are mennekes type 2. I wonder will leaf change , personally I prefer the type 1 J 1772 connector myself

32 amps will be the cable limit and remember evse is all 230 vac charging. Ie connected to the cars internal AC charger hence 32x 230 , or 6.6 kW or there abouts. The evse can request much higher currents but typically limited by the cable ( some evese are told the cable rating by a resistor in the connector, so the evse will never request a rate greater then the cable can support

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

All I can say publicly is that you can install your own 32 amp home EVSE.

As far as I know you can install any alliance upto the AC supply's max current as long as the houses infrastructure supports it.

Technically with care and sone smart switching you could pull, 10 kW or more

I'm going to redesign the open evse PCB to suit European mains setups , it will be an interesting winter hobby project. EVSEs arnt complex

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes leaf is the oddity as the others are mennekes type 2. I wonder will leaf change , personally I prefer the type 1 J 1772 connector myself

32 amps will be the cable limit and remember evse is all 230 vac charging. Ie connected to the cars internal AC charger hence 32x 230 , or 6.6 kW or there abouts. The evse can request much higher currents but typically limited by the cable ( some evese are told the cable rating by a resistor in the connector, so the evse will never request a rate greater then the cable can support

They specifically mentioned 1.8-22 kw so I took it they meant charging via the ChaDeMo port ? naturally the type I socket in the leaf is limited to 6.6 Kw with the built in charger.

If found the information not to be clear on that site.

The Idea is to use the ESB 22 Kw AC chargers to plug into the DC ChaDeMo socket, but the AC to DC conversion would be much larger than the EVSE on this site.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

They specifically mentioned 1.8-22 kw so I took it they meant charging via the ChaDeMo port ? naturally the type I socket in the leaf is limited to 6.6 Kw with the built in charger.

If found the information not to be clear on that site.

The Idea is to use the ESB 22 Kw AC chargers to plug into the DC ChaDeMo socket, but the AC to DC conversion would be much larger than the EVSE on this site.

The evse can control either single or three phase charging upto 22kw. ( tesla etc ) this is true of openevse too.

Mode 4 charging (DC ) is entirely different and the protocols are patented and licensed ( which is very bad unfortunately )

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The evse can control either single or three phase charging upto 22kw. ( tesla etc ) this is true of openevse too.

Mode 4 charging (DC ) is entirely different and the protocols are patented and licensed ( which is very bad unfortunately )

If it can only be used on the Zoe or Model S Twin chargers then it's not any use to leaf owners.

The Idea is to use the 22 Kw AC points and connect to the DC ChaDeMo port but that would require a lot larger device.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

The Idea is to use the 22 Kw AC points and connect to the DC ChaDeMo port but that would require a lot larger device.

Don't follow you here, do you mean carry a " portable " ChaDeMo around. ?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Don't follow you here, do you mean carry a " portable " ChaDeMo around. ?

If it were possible, you can get DC chargers to install in the Leaf in the link I posted and ChaDeMo controllers to connect in to the DC line of the Leaf. Too expensive but it would be cool to charge at 22 Kw from all the AC points we have here.

BoatMad

The future is DC charging , I suspect in time those on street ones will be redundant bad be removed

Yes I have always said the future is faster DC charging but you can't ignore the benefits of 22 Kw AC , even 6.6 Kw AC has huge benefits. 25-90% in 2 hrs in the current gen Leaf. I wouldn't be without it.

Dexter1979

DC is the future for fast charging along the way. Public slow chargers and domestic chargera will most likely stay AC. In most EU countries it's easier to get a home 11 - 22kW three phase AC point than all the hardware needed to have a home DC charger. You might see an increase in 22kW DC CCS stations in the EU but Type 2 AC stations are not going.

I would expect ESB to add more AC chargers as EVs get mute populair. But then a counter argument is that we'll all be driving EVs with huge ranges soon, how many do you need.

Dexter1979

Dexter1979 wrote: »

DC is the future for fast charging along the way. Public slow chargers and domestic chargera will most likely stay AC. In most EU countries it's easier to get a home 11 - 22kW three phase AC point than all the hardware needed to have a home DC charger. You might see an increase in 22kW DC CCS stations in the EU but Type 2 AC stations are not going.

I would expect ESB to add more AC chargers as EVs get mute populair. But then a counter argument is that we'll all be driving EVs with huge ranges soon, how many do you need.

Yeah DC will be King for the top ups on route.

When the Gen II electrics appear with up to 320 Kms (200 miles) that will get you from Cork City to Dublin City in one go. Maybe you might need to top up for 5-10 mins along the way, I'm sure most people will stop for something to eat or toilet etc.

When you get in to town the AC points will still be needed and probably more so because you'd rather your big 60 Kwh battery charged over 3 hrs @22 Kw than have to go find a fast charger and wait. So I still see huge need for AC in the future as well as DC.

You could look at it another way that people might actually prefer loads of 22 kw AC points and charge when they're parked or going about their business than having to wait at fast chargers.

I just hope at that point more electrics have faster AC charging, 22 Kw AC would be really great !

Car manufacturers should look to EV drivers to see what they actually need. I think it would be a huge mistake if EV makers don't support faster AC.

Most people won't need 3 phase 22 kw charging at home or more because if the average Irish commute is 16 Kms then yoou could easily have that battery charged by the time you need it at 6.6 kw.

We are well behind regarding 3 phase to homes in Ireland. And the ESB should be advising builders and electricians that any new home should be at least wired for 3 phase, there is no reason we can't use electricity for everything including heating so 3 phase is definitely the way forward.

BoatMad

We are well behind regarding 3 phase to homes in Ireland. And the ESB should be advising builders and electricians that any new home should be at least wired for 3 phase, there is no reason we can't use electricity for everything including heating so 3 phase is definitely the way forward

Cause heating with electricity is too dammed expensive that's why. You'll not see 3 phase domestic infrastructure in Ireland possibly ever. Too much in the ground already to change.

Oil and nature has still cheap then electricity to heat homes.


I don't think AC charging outside home and work is going to be a viable proposition. Given a reasonable number of reasonable range EVs , charge time will be too long and congestion to great , as the dwell time for many EVs at these points is hours.

I was told indirectly that aside from one or two already committed to the ESB are it installing anymore roadside AC charge points only FCs

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Cause heating with electricity is too dammed expensive that's why. You'll not see 3 phase domestic infrastructure in Ireland possibly ever. Too much in the ground already to change.

Oil and nature has still cheap then electricity to heat homes.

I meant we "can" use electricity for everything.

BoatMad wrote: »

I don't think AC charging outside home and work is going to be a viable proposition. Given a reasonable number of reasonable range EVs , charge time will be too long and congestion to great , as the dwell time for many EVs at these points is hours.

I was told indirectly that aside from one or two already committed to the ESB are it installing anymore roadside AC charge points only FCs

If the ESB are considering not to support further AC point installation then imo this is a bad move, the more people use AC the less people will tie up fast chargers which cost a hell of a lot more to install.

As I said, I would rather go on a long drive and arrive at my destination, plug in and have a full charge in a 60 Kwh battery in around 3 hrs or after 2 hrs would still have pretty decent range. I then don't have to go and look for a fast charger and possibly have to queue, this is what I do with the Leaf with the 6.6 Kw charger and the convenience of that I would not give up too easy.

Most likely car manufacturers will not install more than 32 amp chargers to save them money and people will have no choice but to use the fast chargers. But it will be interesting to see the long range electrics in 2017/18, the first of them will be the GM Bolt, which I still can't believe they decided to have it a limited production EV !

Still even 32 amp charging on a 60 Kwh battery will get you 50-60 odd miles in 2 hrs.

BoatMad

Having done a review. I'm going to build a version of the smart evse , with ATmel processors and code it myself. EVSEs are very simple devices

I'll make it all open source and plan for prototypes around Jan as I expect to get the leaf in early feb

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Having done a review. I'm going to build a version of the smart evse , with ATmel processors and code it myself. EVSEs are very simple devices

I'll make it all open source and plan for prototypes around Jan as I expect to get the leaf in early feb

Are you getting the 30 Kwh ? can't remember if you said.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you getting the 30 Kwh ? can't remember if you said.

no i intend to provision a feed to my EVSE that support 6.6 kw charging

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

no i intend to provision a feed to my EVSE that support 6.6 kw charging

Do you think you need this level of charging at home ?

Handy to have I suppose, most of my charging is done at night so I don't need it.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I meant we "can" use electricity for everything.



If the ESB are considering not to support further AC point installation then imo this is a bad move, the more people use AC the less people will tie up fast chargers which cost a hell of a lot more to install.

As I said, I would rather go on a long drive and arrive at my destination, plug in and have a full charge in a 60 Kwh battery in around 3 hrs or after 2 hrs would still have pretty decent range. I then don't have to go and look for a fast charger and possibly have to queue, this is what I do with the Leaf with the 6.6 Kw charger and the convenience of that I would not give up too easy.

Most likely car manufacturers will not install more than 32 amp chargers to save them money and people will have no choice but to use the fast chargers. But it will be interesting to see the long range electrics in 2017/18, the first of them will be the GM Bolt, which I still can't believe they decided to have it a limited production EV !

Still even 32 amp charging on a 60 Kwh battery will get you 50-60 odd miles in 2 hrs.

I think the concept of on street AC charging is really a dead end design wise. , Yes it has great use in places where people habitually stay reasonably long times, homes, workplaces, hotels.

But the idea that your destination is close to you convenient to an AC charge point is not borne out in reality. Its OK in small towns and villages ( say like Ashford ) , but not in larger towns and cities, where your ultimate destination is > 500 metres or approaching a 1Km away for example , thats simply not going to work

The key is DC charging is spaced at convenient intervals , coupled with coffee shops etc. Multi bay DC will be needed in the forthcoming years, I found my DC chargers on the East coast always had another leaf charging when I arrived !.

its simply to expensive to fit large KW AC chargers to cars, nor does it make sense to carry around a heavy lump of electronics, that only get used now and again. ultimately the chargers should be in the charge points not the car

AC charging is also more problematic as EV numbers build as cars will be plugged in for too long

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think you need this level of charging at home ?

Handy to have I suppose, most of my charging is done at night so I don't need it.

Thomas Watson, CEO of IBM, once said that the world would only ever need 5 computers " need" is a funny thing

If I can charge my Leaf in half the time , that means the car is more usable, Right now in my trials , we simulated coming home late ( from the parties dont you know) and plugged in at 1am. The car didnt have enough range for its commute by 7:30 am.

Equally since home charging is likely to predominate, I want it to be as efficient as possible.

Im going to make the EVSE load shedding capable , as it will measure the load the rest of the house is taking and throttle back the Leaf if required, That allows water heater, washer dryers etc, to come in and still not overload the AC feed ( though there is enough headroom in the main). in particular it has to co-exist with the powered showers

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

I think the concept of on street AC charging is really a dead end design wise. , Yes it has great use in places where people habitually stay reasonably long times, homes, workplaces, hotels.

But the idea that your destination is close to you convenient to an AC charge point is not borne out in reality. Its OK in small towns and villages ( say like Ashford ) , but not in larger towns and cities, where your ultimate destination is > 500 metres or approaching a 1Km away for example , thats simply not going to work

The key is DC charging is spaced at convenient intervals , coupled with coffee shops etc. Multi bay DC will be needed in the forthcoming years, I found my DC chargers on the East coast always had another leaf charging when I arrived !.

its simply to expensive to fit large KW AC chargers to cars, nor does it make sense to carry around a heavy lump of electronics, that only get used now and again. ultimately the chargers should be in the charge points not the car

I simply don't agree with this, I found AC to be most useful and wouldn't like to have to use fast chargers all the time, as I keep insisting that getting back in to a charged car is far more practical where the option is there.

There are times when plunging in won't be close to your destination this is why we need more.

Yes we need faster DC charging but I don't think our grid could handle 100 kw chargers and I doubt we'll see 100+ Kw chargers in Ireland any time soon never mind multiple 100 Kw on site.

We should have a proper mix of AC and DC points.

I'm not suggesting we have 40 Kw AC chargers in cars but 22 Kw is perfectly feasible.

I think you will find out that having the 6.6 Kw and AC street charging will be something you also won't want to loose !

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

If I can charge my Leaf in half the time , that means the car is more usable, Right now in my trials , we simulated coming home late ( from the parties dont you know) and plugged in at 1am. The car didnt have enough range for its commute by 7:30 am.

How on earth would you be going to parties and working the next morning ? I wouldn't go to parties on weekdays lol.

Handy to have 32 amp charging if you need it though.

You'd have plenty of range starting at 1 am at 16 amps by 7 am. I think you'll also find that you will not be arriving home or at a charge point with less than 20% range. You'd be better off topping up at a fast charger if you find yourself getting home with low or worse very low battery warning often.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

How on earth would you be going to parties and working the next morning ? I wouldn't go to parties on weekdays lol.

Quiet ones, but still we are sometime home late on a week day, it happens

Handy to have 32 amp charging if you need it though.

absolutely

You'd have plenty of range starting at 1 am at 16 amps by 7 am. I think you'll also find that you will not be arriving home or at a charge point with less than 20% range. You'd be better off topping up at a fast charger if you find yourself getting home with low or worse very low battery warning often.

from computations, ( since I was charging at 10 A) it would give the car about 15-16 KWh at the very best. so around half the range. This is too close and requires a stop in a fast charger on the way to work, ( we have 3 DC chargers on route and 4 when M11 gorey opens in Jan)

but no-one wants to extend a 70km commute in the morning , no-one !!!!


the 6,6kw home charging will alleviate that , essentially recharging the car in about 4 hours - sweet

ill publish the design , you can build your own !:D

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

from computations, ( since I was charging at 10 A) it would give the car about 15-16 KWh at the very best. so around half the range. This is too close and requires a stop in a fast charger on the way to work, ( we have 3 DC chargers on route and 4 when M11 gorey opens in Jan)

but no-one wants to extend a 70km commute in the morning , no-one !!!!


the 6,6kw home charging will alleviate that , essentially recharging the car in about 4 hours - sweet

ill publish the design , you can build your own !:D

15-16 Kwh is more than half the battery, the battery has 21-22 Kwh usable MAX.

80% should get you 70 Kms easily too. I drive 67 Kms on 80% now with the work charger and get there with about 30% left.

Anyway, definitely handy to have the 32 amp charging at home if you need it but over 20,800 Kms I haven't needed it but depends on your driving habits.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

15-16 Kwh is more than half the battery, the battery has 21-22 Kwh usable MAX.

80% should get you 70 Kms easily too. I drive 67 Kms on 80% now with the work charger and get there with about 30% left.

Anyway, definitely handy to have the 32 amp charging at home if you need it but over 20,800 Kms I haven't needed it but depends on your driving habits.

sure sure, I see no future in charging slower then the technology can support though

to each his own

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

sure sure, I see no future in charging slower then the technology can support though

to each his own

Oh don't get me wrong, 32 amp charging is quite convenient for me while out and about but 16 amp charging has proven to be all I really need at home the "what if" scenarios haven't arisen in nearly 21,000 Kms.

I took the free EVSE should they have given me a 32 amp one I would have been just as happy with it.

But better to have it than want it and from 20-90% charge in about 2 hrs could be very convenient for many people.

cros13

I agree that long term DC charging at home is the way forward.

The DC rapids really aren't that complicated either. With sufficient market and mass production the price could be brought down close to today's AC EVSEs.

The problems lie in getting the number of EVs out there up, standardising the DC charging and either heavily investing in home battery storage or a grid that better supports local use of distributed generation.

I have mainly 32A EVSEs and it's really handy. I've been looking at maybe adding a 25kW single phase DC rapid to the place in Tipp if I get the 11KW solar install off the ground.

stesaurus

BoatMad wrote: »

ill publish the design , you can build your own !:D

We'll hold you to that. A home point with automatic throttling down based on usage would be fantastic.

Could be a useful side business if you wanted to take it up as a hobby and sell them on even.

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

We'll hold you to that. A home point with automatic throttling down based on usage would be fantastic.

Could be a useful side business if you wanted to take it up as a hobby and sell them on even.

No problem.

I'm in The business of designing circuits professionally , on contract , mostly for other people.

The load shedding isn't complex , assuming the EV responds to changes in request to throttle the charger load dynamically as a result of the EVSE requesting lower or higher rates. The main issue is installation requires you to put a current transformer on the main feed to the house , but not much different to energy monitors etc. ( though typically these are wireless based, which is a little more complex to design )
The evse design itself is quite a trivial circuit

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

assuming the EV responds to changes in request to throttle the charger load dynamically as a result of the EVSE requesting lower or higher rates.

Some EVs (like my i3) will take the drop in current to mean instability in supply or an issue with the EVSE either stop charging with an error or permanently back-off to lower charging rates of 8/10/12 amps requiring manual intervention.

mundogas

I know this is an old thread but did anyone ever order an Openevse? I've been looking at them for a while now and I am tempted. I like the look of them and the ability to change charge rate and a display. I made portable evse with the mainpine epc currently set to 11amps, it works well but looks rough enough. Guess my question is if I ordered a kilt what needs to be changed to make it meet regs here?

BoatMad

mundogas wrote: »

I know this is an old thread but did anyone ever order an Openevse? I've been looking at them for a while now and I am tempted. I like the look of them and the ability to change charge rate and a display. I made portable evse with the mainpine epc currently set to 11amps, it works well but looks rough enough. Guess my question is if I ordered a kilt what needs to be changed to make it meet regs here?

There are no regs here for experimental use, only regs if you were to attempt to sell it commercially. ( CE low voltage directive and PAT testing etc )

I have a board I made up , the system is easy to implement

have a look at this too http://www.ev-power.eu/Electric-Cars/EVSE-kit-for-EV-charging-station.html

mylesm

BoatMad wrote: »

There are no regs here for experimental use, only regs if you were to attempt to sell it commercially. ( CE low voltage directive and PAT testing etc )

I have a board I made up , the system is easy to implement

have a look at this too http://www.ev-power.eu/Electric-Cars/EVSE-kit-for-EV-charging-station.html

Thats the one I used works fine