Efficiency gained from employing labour.

Milked out

At a stage here where I will have to look at employing someone at some stage in the next 12 months. If the work is there, that labour unit will be required in good prices and bad prices so just looking at the total cost of employing someone. Obviously there are wages and that but against that would be the improved performance that would materialise hopefully, again this is on the premise of me finding the right person and then me being able to manage him/her and the farm to get the most out of it.
By improved performance I guess from my own place I'd be thinking perhaps increased yields maybe 1L/day due to cows standing around waiting for me less and feed being fed out faster , more time spent on fresh cows, etc. an extra couple of cows noticed in heat or maybe in calf as I won't be heading off to next job in middle of breeding, lower mortality rates in calves, fert/ slurry thrown out more timely leading to more grass those kind of things.
Have any of ye noticed those kind of improvements, or any other things to think of?
Obviously the way milk price is going this year one would think where would the extra 25 to 30k or whatever come from but the work is there so one would hope with the extra pair of hands there would be more coming in the gate as well. Will be at 130 or so cows next year with a bit of work to do on farm yet. Sorry for long post just said I'd throw this up here and see what ye all think seeing as plenty experience on and off farm here

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

At a stage here where I will have to look at employing someone at some stage in the next 12 months. If the work is there, that labour unit will be required in good prices and bad prices so just looking at the total cost of employing someone. Obviously there are wages and that but against that would be the improved performance that would materialise hopefully, again this is on the premise of me finding the right person and then me being able to manage him/her and the farm to get the most out of it.
By improved performance I guess from my own place I'd be thinking perhaps increased yields maybe 1L/day due to cows standing around waiting for me less and feed being fed out faster , more time spent on fresh cows, etc. an extra couple of cows noticed in heat or maybe in calf as I won't be heading off to next job in middle of breeding, lower mortality rates in calves, fert/ slurry thrown out more timely leading to more grass those kind of things.
Have any of ye noticed those kind of improvements, or any other things to think of?
Obviously the way milk price is going this year one would think where would the extra 25 to 30k or whatever come from but the work is there so one would hope with the extra pair of hands there would be more coming in the gate as well. Will be at 130 or so cows next year with a bit of work to do on farm yet. Sorry for long post just said I'd throw this up here and see what ye all think seeing as plenty experience on and off farm here

I honestly wish you the best Milked out...you never know, but, maybe it's possible to find a needle in a haystack.




You will find phuckwits for €30k/yr that spend more time on snapchat than work.
The celtic tiger has a lot to answer for...


I'm willing to give equity to the right person and all I can find are total fools with a highly overinflated sense of self worth...
The rule of thumb with the farm workers today is, the more of them you have, the harder you will work.

whelan2

Very hard to source the right person. Do you need some one full time or would a few hours a day do?

Miname

All good points your making but it's next to impossible to find someone with drive and it will be even harder to find someone with the same enthusiasm you should have yourself. Is him or her going to earn their keep or will they cost you in repairs and laziness.

freedominacup

If you get the l/day you'll be halfway to covering the salary. I wouldn't be as despondent as some posters about getting good staff. Just remember everyone is replaceable. If you do get a good operator and they say they're moving on to something else at some point all you can say is good luck and thanks.

MF290

A mobile home and someone from one of the eastern european countries works for some around here. Depends on whether your looking for an extra pair of hands or an extra pairs of hands with a functioning brain!

patsy_mccabe

The attitude of some people on here. No wonder ye find it hard to get people. It's a 2-way street. People have choices now. I wouldn't hang around long if someone was belittling me like some of the comments above.

Dawggone

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The attitude of some people on here. No wonder ye find it hard to get people. It's a 2-way street. People have choices now. I wouldn't hang around long if someone was belittling me like some of the comments above.

I'll explain.
Man, highly experienced, applies for a job. No bother. 2500 hectares of seeding under his belt. Milked etc on 900 cow dairy farm... Head the size of mount Leinster...
Within 10 days had €11k worth of damage done and never set foot in a milking parlour. I could go on but couldn't be bothered....

kevthegaff

Milked out going to go to same numbers, plan is contract out more slurry if possible, not going to factory/mart anymore(THANK GOD). Move calves quicker, get in a alad for a few mornings a week during spring for general jobs. If you want someone on your same level, youl pay for it!

White Clover

Dawggone wrote: »

I'll explain.
Man, highly experienced, applies for a job. No bother. 2500 hectares of seeding under his belt. Milked etc on 900 cow dairy farm... Head the size of mount Leinster...
Within 10 days had €11k worth of damage done and never set foot in a milking parlour. I could go on but couldn't be bothered....

If it's fair to ask Dawg, did this guy have references and if so did you speak to these referees before employing him ?

whelan2

If I was ever taking on a worker again I would get it through frs, they can do the hiring and firing, my head was wrecked with replies to ads. Also give them a trial period , wont take long to see if they are suitable.

Dawggone

White Clover wrote: »

If it's fair to ask Dawg, did this guy have references and if so did you speak to these referees before employing him ?

Yep. On the phone...

NOT an isolated incident. I'll fill your office with them.

kevthegaff

As a neighbour said yiul know alot a bout a lad by the way he walks!

mahoney_j

Milked out my take on this is at 130 cows outside of Spring calving period u could manage
1 contract out all slurry and as much fertiliser spreading as possible .did this here this year and very pleased how it worked out as well as time it spared me I also got 90% of calves dehorn end by a local guy this year ,again money well spent
2 get a relief Milker in a few times a week
3 around yard ,hang all gates properly and set it up that drafting out cows to calve Ai etc is a one man job as much as possible
They say it takes 40 cows to pay a labour unit and at that I reckon you'd want to be heading for 150/80 cows to justify it

Greengrass1

Any neighbours around locally beef, sheep farmers that might be interested in 4/5 hrs work a day?
When I left my mate I was milking for and feeding calves he got a neighbour who has sucklers at home. Still has him 3 yrs
He was calving 160 and milking 120 3 yrs ago when I left him. Will milk 160 next yr.
He has him in for as many hrs he can get him from feb to may and bull calves gone asap. And then few hrs a day rest of the yr. Working really well from what he tells me and he can milk now too.

frazzledhome

mahoney_j wrote: »

Milked out my take on this is at 130 cows outside of Spring calving period u could manage
1 contract out all slurry and as much fertiliser spreading as possible .did this here this year and very pleased how it worked out as well as time it spared me I also got 90% of calves dehorn end by a local guy this year ,again money well spent
2 get a relief Milker in a few times a week
3 around yard ,hang all gates properly and set it up that drafting out cows to calve Ai etc is a one man job as much as possible
They say it takes 40 cows to pay a labour unit and at that I reckon you'd want to be heading for 150/80 cows to justify it

Lol Gates not swinging drives me phuckin mad, really rots me.

farmerjj

[QUOTE=
They say it takes 40 cows to pay a labour unit and at that I reckon you'd want to be heading for 150/80 cows to justify it[/QUOTE]

+1

Deepsouthwest

Finally an interesting thread, this place has been boring as fcuk recently!

Bullocks

Dawggone wrote: »

I'll explain.
Man, highly experienced, applies for a job. No bother. 2500 hectares of seeding under his belt. Milked etc on 900 cow dairy farm... Head the size of mount Leinster...
Within 10 days had €11k worth of damage done and never set foot in a milking parlour. I could go on but couldn't be bothered....

You would want to hear my younger brother on the phone giving references for his buddies gone working in Oz or the UK, it's unbelievable he is about 22 and hasn't worked for a full year anywhere yet , does a bit of baling and wrapping and digger work for the local contractor but when he is giving a reference you would think you were on the phone to a sincere Michael O Leary !
He is an avid snapchatter aswell while working !

poor farmer

whelan2 wrote: »

If I was ever taking on a worker again I would get it through frs, they can do the hiring and firing, my head was wrecked with replies to ads. Also give them a trial period , wont take long to see if they are suitable.

+1 on the above especially the "trial period" or take on person for 2-3 days a weeks .
I employ a tractor driver ,its a lot easier to get good one,than to get a good stockman.

MF290

frazzledhome wrote: »

Lol Gates not swinging drives me phuckin mad, really rots me.

Couldn't be as annoying as the fellas around our place buckling and knocking all the gates trying to open them with machinery!

Greengrass1

MF290 wrote: »

Couldn't be as annoying as the fellas around our place buckling and knocking all the gates trying to open them with machinery!

I'm a dap hand at straightening gates

Deepsouthwest

farmerjj wrote: »

+1

Is that 40 cows at 39c/l or 25c/l?!?!

frazzledhome

MF290 wrote: »

Couldn't be as annoying as the fellas around our place buckling and knocking all the gates trying to open them with machinery!

Easy fixed, had a situation where contractors man was nudging gate open with tractor and it caught in tyre lug. Bent gate and had to be lifted to close. I said nothing but got local guy to fix and rehang, paid him and when contractor came for money stopped the cost.

I know and accept accidents happen but this was pure laziness

Deepsouthwest

Unfortunately at 130 cows and the way milk is looking for the nxt few yrs I don't think an extra labour unit can be justified.
At 150 here, with a student in the spring, and casual labour for the rest of the yr, no family labour here.
V hard to find someone who's good at cows and machinery, so sometimes it's easier to have two.
No man with over 70/80 cows should spend a day spreading slurry when u can get plenty good young lads to do it for 10/hr.
U will need more help in the spring, and a reliable relief milker to get a bit of down time for the second half of the yr is where I'd be looking at if I was u.

Feckthis

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Unfortunately at 130 cows and the way milk is looking for the nxt few yrs I don't think an extra labour unit can be justified.
At 150 here, with a student in the spring, and casual labour for the rest of the yr, no family labour here.
V hard to find someone who's good at cows and machinery, so sometimes it's easier to have two.
No man with over 70/80 cows should spend a day spreading slurry when u can get plenty good young lads to do it for 10/hr.
U will need more help in the spring, and a reliable relief milker to get a bit of down time for the second half of the yr is where I'd be looking at if I was u.

130 cows x 5500= 715,000 litres X .26c =
€ 185,900 not including SFP or CALF OR Cull sales. I know a lot of out goings need to be taken into account but that really is shocking that you say you couldn't justify a labour unit with that much coming in.
I know I'm going to get the head "blown" off me for this but it has to be said!!

frazzledhome

Feckthis wrote: »

130 cows x 5500= 715,000 litres X .26c =
€ 185,900 not including SFP or CALF OR Cull sales. I know a lot of out goings need to be taken into account but that really is shocking that you say you couldn't justify a labour unit with that much coming in.
I know I'm going to get the head "blown" off me for this but it has to be said!!

No head chopping but 715000 litres at 26c production costs should answer your query

Deepsouthwest

Feckthis wrote: »

130 cows x 5500= 715,000 litres X .26c =
€ 185,900 not including SFP or CALF OR Cull sales. I know a lot of out goings need to be taken into account but that really is shocking that you say you couldn't justify a labour unit with that much coming in.
I know I'm going to get the head "blown" off me for this but it has to be said!!

Production costs and if there's anything left over at .26/l, then there's existing farm loans, tax, mortgage, health insurance plus all the other running costs of a family home etc etc etc

kevthegaff

If you have two lads doing casual labour suits better if u can find them? No holiday pay, redundancy, etc

cute geoge

Is not there something seriously wrong when a farmer with 130 cows has to justify to pay one labour wage
Imo dairy farmers better take stock of where they are going ,80 cows is more then enough for any man to manage .
Sometimes i find it enough to manage 50 in an unmodernised setup
How many farmers sons are going to follow there fathers in to a life of slavery can anyone answer that?

Greengrass1

cute geoge wrote: »

Is not there something seriously wrong when a farmer with 130 cows has to justify to pay one labour wage
Imo dairy farmers better take stock of where they are going ,80 cows is more then enough for any man to manage .
Sometimes i find it enough to manage 50 in an unmodernised setup
How many farmers sons are going to follow there fathers in to a life of slavery can anyone answer that?

I see myself with a better lifestyle when we hit 140 which is prob 3 yrs away or maybe longer who knows.
Should have a better set up ie bigger parlour and cubicles for all.
I haven't even looked to get someone but I'd say in the morning if I was I could think of 4 ppl off top of my head that would be good to work.

Maybe I'm deluded???

Deepsouthwest

cute geoge wrote: »

Is not there something seriously wrong when a farmer with 130 cows has to justify to pay one labour wage
Imo dairy farmers better take stock of where they are going ,80 cows is more then enough for any man to manage .
Sometimes i find it enough to manage 50 in an unmodernised setup
How many farmers sons are going to follow there fathers in to a life of slavery can anyone answer that?

Yes there is something seriously wrong, but that unfortunately is the way the game is going.
As someone said to me recently, 100 is the new "60 cows" and 200 is the new "100 cows", and I think it's absolutely true.

Feckthis

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Yes there is something seriously wrong, but that unfortunately is the way the game is going.
As someone said to me recently, 100 is the new "60 cows" and 200 is the new "100 cows", and I think it's absolutely true.

What has changed drastically that this is the case?

degetme

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I see myself with a better lifestyle when we hit 140 which is prob 3 yrs away or maybe longer who knows.
Should have a better set up ie bigger parlour and cubicles for all.
I haven't even looked to get someone but I'd say in the morning if I was I could think of 4 ppl off top of my head that would be good to work.

Maybe I'm deluded???

Your not the only one. I thinking seventy to eighty cows would give me a decent living but with the costs in farming and living costs would i be better off with just a job earning 30 to 40k.

Deepsouthwest

Feckthis wrote: »

What has changed drastically that this is the case?

Nothing at all has changed, maybe speeded up a bit, but no drastic changes. This is the evolution of farming, like it or not. How many cows did our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers milk in their days. Has it really changed at all?

Timmaay

Very interesting thread Milked out! I can stock the milking block here to 130/140 cows without too much sweat moving down the line, but where do I draw the line? Will be up to 100 cows this spring growing organically, but giving serious consideration to picking up about 15heifers, given the low price of them, good cull cow price, and our high enough empty rate. However it would leave me with a overlap period in the spring where I'll probably end up with 110+ cows, plus the 40 or so replacements over the spring. I do most the stock work here, but my dad is still an invaluable help, especially if there is a problem when I'm away etc. Almost all machinery work is contracted out, excluding winter feeding and fert spreading (both done by my dad).

Anyways we've managed without too much sweat the last 2years at the 80-90cow mark, if anything the 90cows this year was easier than 80 last year, with a better calving routine this year. However how far I can comfortable go is the big question? I'm lucky enough to have afew very reliable local relief milkers, who would know my parlour and setup well, and I've no problems calling any of them up and letting them on with it whenever needs be. So I'm feeling comfortable enough about pushing on with the few extra heifers if I manage to purchase the correct stock for the right price. Putting in the 14unit parlour this year means its only 20mins extra work in the parlour.

The one change I would give serious consideration to is getting in one of my relief milkers for every single evening milking while the heifers are calving, I would only bother milking the heifers in the evening (just run them through the parlour in the morning, to get comfy with the parlour), this is as much because training in heifers is an utter pet hate of mine ha. If I had to do this for a solid month, it would cost something around 1100e, money well spend if it results in the heifers getting settled in better and faster to the parlour.

darragh_haven

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Nothing at all has changed, maybe speeded up a bit, but no drastic changes. This is the evolution of farming, like it or not. How many cows did our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers milk in their days. Has it really changed at all?

My grand father bought our current farm in the late 40s and raised six kids, and sent 3 of the 6 kids to college, 2 went farming. This was while milking between 22 and 26 cows.
My dad and my uncle sent their respective families to college on the same land and 95 to 110 cows.
I think DSW is right when he says that to maintain this level (or type) of income, we have to be milking close to 200 cows. It has to do with inflation among countless other factors

Dawggone

Bullocks wrote: »

You would want to hear my younger brother on the phone giving references for his buddies gone working in Oz or the UK, it's unbelievable he is about 22 and hasn't worked for a full year anywhere yet , does a bit of baling and wrapping and digger work for the local contractor but when he is giving a reference you would think you were on the phone to a sincere Michael O Leary !
He is an avid snapchatter aswell while working !

He's doing the industry a great service Bullocks. Mr. o Leary will be proud, as am I.

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

My grand father bought our current farm in the late 40s and raised six kids, and sent 3 of the 6 kids to college, 2 went farming. This was while between 22 and 26 cows.
My dad and my uncle sent their respective families to college on the same land and 95 to 110 cows.
I think DSW is right when he says that to maintain this level (or type) of income, we have to be milking close to 200 cows. It has to do with inflation among countless other factors

You speak the truth Darragh.

pedigree 6

mahoney_j wrote: »

They say it takes 40 cows to pay a labour unit and at that I reckon you'd want to be heading for 150/80 cows to justify it

A good dairy farmer near me says it takes 50 cows to pay a work man.

whelan2

Had people working here when kids were younger. Only have a relief milker now,my dad is here if I need help and oh helps out too. I am saving at least 2k a month. I get a lad to help when things are very busy. When Iwas young my dad had 2 lads working fulltime and he was also here a good bit, times change. The place is more efficient and as some one said earleir gates hung properly and good fencing goes along way.

Bullocks

Dawggone wrote: »

He's doing the industry a great service Bullocks. Mr. o Leary will be proud, as am I.

I bet . Its woegus carry on but my point is about the references , alot of young lads are doing this so you would want a reference on headed paper with a land line number you can ring and be sure it is a genuine previous employer you're talking to

keep going

My tuppence worth,130 cows is fast becoming a one man show.i would exhaust all forms of getting jobs done before I would take on a worker, next I would relook at every aspect of my business interms of labour in other words , is there any way of taking that job out of the equation or can I time jobs better.one example is reseeding orcrops on a farm .push work away from the spring.employing labour brings alot of hheadaches with it and maybe we should stand back and ignore the hype as regards numbers

trixi2011

Just putting this out there, we had an irish dairy adviser over as part of a discussion group was chatting to him about the best way of setting up, he was saying the most profitable dairy farmers on his books were either 100 cow farms with family labour or 250 + with hired in labour thought it was an interesting statistic

kowtow

trixi2011 wrote:

Just putting this out there, we had an irish dairy adviser over as part of a discussion group was chatting to him about the best way of setting up, he was saying the most profitable dairy farmers on his books were either 100 cow farms with family labour or 250 + with hired in labour thought it was an interesting statistic

If you bear in mind that family labour is free, it's not a particularly surprising statistic!

Is he really saying "with less than 250 cows don't expect any wages"

leg wax

if it takes 50 extra cows to cover a mans wages, the true cost has to be more,cows have to be brought into the set up at a cost, buildings and slurry storage for the extra 50 cows, and land where is that going to appear out of.

whelan2

I had a lad for a 3 day week for a while, would this be an option?

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

I had a lad for a 3 day week for a while, would this be an option?

Was at a farm walk recently (down your country Frazz), chap with 130ish cows, had a lad in 3days a week, and the other 3days a week yourman worked on his brothers farm. Seemed to work perfect for them both. In the busy spring time the farmer hires FRS etc for another 3days a week.

Deepsouthwest

trixi2011 wrote: »

Just putting this out there, we had an irish dairy adviser over as part of a discussion group was chatting to him about the best way of setting up, he was saying the most profitable dairy farmers on his books were either 100 cow farms with family labour or 250 + with hired in labour thought it was an interesting statistic

I think this might be more of an opinion than a statistic!

Deepsouthwest

Going back to milked out's original question on extra labour, I was probably wrong in saying he shouldn't need an extra labour unit at those numbers. I've just realised he's in winter milk so there's a fair workload all yr round.
Every farm is different, with development stage being a critical difference between farms. I know at the stage I'm at still rising cow numbers and in the middle of building sheds, reclaiming/draining land, roadways, water etc which takes up a lot of my income.
If another farm has this work done and is established with just reseeding and maintenance to do every yr then they would be in a much stronger position to take on labour both from a lifestyle and tax point of view.
And to answer ur first question, yes a farm does become more efficient with extra labour imo

yosemitesam1

Dawggone wrote: »

He's doing the industry a great service Bullocks. Mr. o Leary will be proud, as am I.

Ya should try getting the references of Skype or hangouts, at least you'll get rid of a few of them lads