“Anti-male” activist faces court in UK

Old Jakey

RWCNT wrote: »

Your comments referring to people as "over hormonal, attention seeking clowns" and the like are what is clearly bigoted. If you don't want to be called a bigot then refrain from those comments, why you're making them in the first place is anyones guess as you claim to not have a problem with anyone. So bravery can only come in one form now? People coming out being described as brave hardly means that sick kids aren't. Bravery isnt some sort of competition. I forgot to say that I hope your son is all good following his treatment.

That's a pretty good description of anyone who says they're 'polygender' or 'pansexual' or any of that nonsense.

kstand

RWCNT wrote: »

Your comments referring to people as "over hormonal, attention seeking clowns" and the like are what is clearly bigoted. If you don't want to be called a bigot then refrain from those comments, why you're making them in the first place is anyones guess as you claim to not have a problem with anyone. So bravery can only come in one form now? People coming out being described as brave hardly means that sick kids aren't. Bravery isnt some sort of competition. I forgot to say that I hope your son is all good following his treatment.

Thank you for your concern. It's over 5 years ago now but it's something I will never forget.
I realise my choice of words was not the best, I sincerely have no problem with anyone no matter - sex, race, sexuality etc. I just think this cross gender thing had been around for a long time and these new buzz terms are a bit much. Was also quite angry at all the media coverage the whole Bruce Jenner thing got. Fair play for doing what he did but there are far more deserving causes for publicity than those Jenner/Kardashian idiots.

zeffabelli

It used to be I am woman hear me roar as you flick your farrah faucet locks now it's I am woman gear be bitch and whine about what an oppressed species I am.

What the hell happened?

I blame the 90s.... Something happened....was it Bill Clinton...Oprah.... What has turned it all around?

Samaris

True equality is when a bloody idiot can stand in your corner and their idiocy reflects on them, not on everyone who shares a chromosome pair with them.

Yep, she deserves all she gets, because that hashtag was dumb, racist, sexist and hatespeech.

Potatoeman

" I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describes structures of privilege based on race and gender.

And therefore women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist because we do not stand to benefit from such a system."

This is the new "I'm not a racist but" phrase.

zeffabelli

RWCNT wrote: »

Your comments referring to people as "over hormonal, attention seeking clowns" and the like are what is clearly bigoted. If you don't want to be called a bigot then refrain from those comments, why you're making them in the first place is anyones guess as you claim to not have a problem with anyone. So bravery can only come in one form now? People coming out being described as brave hardly means that sick kids aren't. Bravery isnt some sort of competition. I forgot to say that I hope your son is all good following his treatment.

The Bruce Jenner adulation comes from the same spirit as this woman.

It's evil to be a man, so the best thing you can do if you are a man, especially a white one, is try to turn into a woman.

RWCNT

zeffabelli wrote: »

The Bruce Jenner adulation comes from the same spirit as this woman.

Zeff, you so ker-azey.

Old Jakey, just because you have zero knowledge of something doesn't make it nonsense.

zeffabelli

RWCNT wrote: »

Zeff, you so ker-azey.

Old Jakey, just because you have zero knowledge of something doesn't make it nonsense.

All this gender neutrality/equality is just eunichfication.

Samaris

zeffabelli wrote: »

All this gender neutrality/equality is just eunichfication.

Yes, treating women as equal means your testicles will be cut off. Please line up at the genital-chopping station, where a burly nurse will wield the hatchet and hand you a songsheet.

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

Yes, treating women as equal means your testicles will be cut off. Please line up at the genital-chopping station, where a burly nurse will wield the hatchet and hand you a songsheet.

Translation: undergraduate school in the humanities.

Samaris

zeffabelli wrote: »

How can you treat women as equal when there's no such thing?

Go on then, explain your point.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Translation: undergraduate school in the humanities.

If you're trying to work out what I am, actually, post-graduate in the sciences. You can't possibly work out what I am or have done from one post unrelated to my education and trying looks silly.

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

Go on then, explain your point.

My point was you can't treat women as equal if there is no such thing as women because it's an illusory social construct.

Samaris

zeffabelli wrote: »

My point was you can't treat women as equal if there is no such thing as women because it's an illusory social construct.

There's...no such thing as women now?

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

There's...no such thing as women now?

Not according to the gender neutralists. Its a social construct.

There's only such thing as women as much as there is s such thing as Santa, an idea .... We are all performing women.... Women themselves are in drag....

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

Go on then, explain your point.



If you're trying to work out what I am, actually, post-graduate in the sciences. You can't possibly work out what I am or have done from one post unrelated to my education and trying looks silly.

Nope not trying to work out what you are.

Was responding to your post. Translating the castrating line up, undergraduate school in the humanities.

Samaris

I think all I can say to any of that is "what?".

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

I think all I can say to any of that is "what?".

Exactly. You are lucky you are doing science.

I did humanities so I know this insanity inside and out. I just never bought into it. That's just a small sampling.

Samaris

I get the idea that "woman" and "man" are to some extent social constructs and some elements of their being social constructs is certain ideas that are applied to one or the other as expectations. These expectations are unhealthy and place being a "man" or a "woman" as more important than being a human being.

Male and female are not social constructs, they are biological. Woman and man are the more wishy-washy versions.

Women should be pure - social expectation, seen in slut shaming.
Men should be tough - social expectation, seen in mocking men who show emotional reactions.

These are the parts of societal construction in the social definitions of man and woman that we should be eyeballing and asking if there is any need for them, or are they artificial limits that plague both genders and hold back our progress as a species and understanding of each other.

Is the humanities thing something along those lines?

OneArt

Very Bored wrote: »

One thing which confuses me about all this is that she is clearly white herself. None of her photos gives me the impression she's anything other than caucasian regardless of what her name might be. So I wonder what she thinks of male members of her own family or if she's so deranged that when she sees them she actually, in her head only, sees black men.

What a lot of people (especially those in the US) seem to forget is that the term 'white people' only refers to a certain group of Caucasians, namely Europeans. Turks, Arabs, a lot of North Africans, Egyptians, many western Asians and even Indians are all included under the definition of Caucasian.

There are plenty of blond-haired blue-eyed Arabs and Turks.

Of course nowadays, it's come to mean mainly white people. I've met plenty of Turkish people in Germany whom I'd assumed (from looks alone) were simply German until they mentioned that they were Turkish or had 'Migrationshinterhund'.

The whole problem with race and ethnicity is that, like culture and religion, there isn't always a full and proper definition. Sometimes the terms are misused entirely or take on different meanings, like Hispanic and Latino in the US is considered a race. It's not. 'Hispanic' refers to a culture and a language like Anglophone refers to English-speakers and English-speaking culture (which doesn't necessarily include just white people, consider African-American culture).

zeffabelli

Samaris wrote: »

I get the idea that "woman" and "man" are to some extent social constructs and some elements of their being social constructs is certain ideas that are applied to one or the other as expectations. These expectations are unhealthy and place being a "man" or a "woman" as more important than being a human being.

Male and female are not social constructs, they are biological. Woman and man are the more wishy-washy versions.

Women should be pure - social expectation, seen in slut shaming.
Men should be tough - social expectation, seen in mocking men who show emotional reactions.

These are the parts of societal construction in the social definitions of man and woman that we should be eyeballing and asking if there is any need for them, or are they artificial limits that plague both genders and hold back our progress as a species and understanding of each other.

Is the humanities thing something along those lines?

I don't know where to start. Really I don't. The humanities have no time or interest in biology and that is because they have a rooted misunderstanding that connects biology with destiny and essentialism.

When you start hearing Christmas is patriarchal and wearing a skirt is internalised oppression and the entire canon of literature is dead white men and let's ban Columbus Day.... Ban Lolita ... Shakespeare was really a woman or his wife wrote it...

Ugh.

Gyalist

Bahar Mustafa, the Goldsmiths student diversity officer who was due to appear in court after allegedly tweeting the hashtag #killallwhitemen, has had charges against her dropped.

The 28-year-old from Edmonton, north-east London, was to appear at Bromley magistrates court on Thursday charged with sending a communication conveying a threatening message and with sending a grossly offensive message via a public communication network.

Police confirmed to the Guardian on Tuesday that the case had been discontinued. The charges had been widely criticised by free-speech groups in a social media campaign using the hashtag #istandwithbaharmustafa when the charges were announced last month.

A Crown Prosecution Service letter sent on 26 October told Mustafa: “The decision to discontinue these charges has been taken because there is not enough evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction.” Mustafa may now apply for her costs to be paid.

#killallwhitemen row: charges dropped against student diversity officer

conorhal

Gyalist wrote: »

#killallwhitemen row: charges dropped against student diversity officer

Probably for the best to be honest, I'd say she'd have loved her day in court to pontificate and feed her persecution complex. Disgusting however is the fact that she has been allowed to remain in her post at the university.

No doubt she will have a bright future, coming to a well paid quango role near you.

osarusan

conorhal wrote: »

Disgusting however is the fact that she has been allowed to remain in her post at the university.

The diversity officer is neither an employee of Goldsmiths nor a student, but an employee of the independent students’ union, elected by union members. She remained in her position as welfare and diversity officer after a petition for a motion of no confidence fell short of the 3% of union members required to trigger a poll.

Duggy747

This whole fiasco has really shown some of her fans and followers in an awful light, they seem to feel they have a vindication to spout hateful stuff about white men or "bitter little boys" on Twitter.

Some really spiteful, hate-filled people with hypocritical logic and twisted ideals. It all looks so petty.

As for her charges, it's not surprising they're dropped and it's for the better as it would only fuel this circus to carry on longer than it needed to be which I'm sure she would use to her advantage.

J Mysterio

awh man, I can't look at that face again. Must unfollow.

partyguinness

To all the guys out there:

We all know what she needs....;)

conorhal

osarusan wrote: »

The diversity officer is neither an employee of Goldsmiths nor a student, but an employee of the independent students’ union, elected by union members. She remained in her position as welfare and diversity officer after a petition for a motion of no confidence fell short of the 3% of union members required to trigger a poll.

You should hardly need a vote to fire somebody who's job is as a diversity officer has seen you feel entitled to discriminate against a particular group of people.

partyguinness

Interestingly her solicitor is a white man...

wes

zeffabelli wrote: »

let's ban Columbus Day....

Columbus was a mass murderer, and deserves a day, about as much as Osama Bin Laden deserves a day celebrating him.

zeffabelli

wes wrote: »

Columbus was a mass murderer, and deserves a day, about as much as Osama Bin Laden deserves a day celebrating him.

Well, Columbus made it possible for millions of Europeans and currently South Americans and Mexicans who would have died of starvation from their classist home countries to survive.

If there was no US, generations and generations of Irish would have dropped dead from the famine. As many other Europeans would have.

You want all those descendants to go home and take their EUropean legacies with them? The science, the technology, the art, the design...

storker

"Mustafa Bahar, the welfare and diversity officer at Goldsmiths University student"

Oh, the irony.

If a similar action, but reversed, had been carried out by a white male, if that individual would have needed up in court then so must Ms Bahar.

The legality of an action is based on the nature of the action, not the identity of the doer, despite the way some PC lefties would exempt themselves from the very laws they wanted to see enacted in the first place. They would also be quick enough to tell you that it is possible to be racist to any group, and that ethnicity doesn't come into it. The fun follow-up to that, of course, is to point out their racist attitudes (by their own definition) towards Americans, the police, men, etc...

wes

zeffabelli wrote: »

Well, Columbus made it possible for millions of Europeans and currently South Americans and Mexicans who would have died of starvation from their classist home countries to survive.

If there was no US, generations and generations of Irish would have dropped dead from the famine. As many other Europeans would have.

What are you on about? So mass murderer Columbus is a good guy, because of what came after? Nonsense.

BTW, he was hardly the first person from this side of the world to visit the new world, the vikings got there a long while before him, and it was inevitable that others would eventually find it.

zeffabelli wrote: »

You want all those descendants to go home and take their EUropean legacies with them? The science, the technology, the art, the design...

None of that was done by Columbus personally, so I see no reason why a mass murderer should be celebrated, and the fact that you have to resort to talking about the achievements of others to defend this mass murderer shows how utterly ridiculous you reasoning is.

The Corinthian

wes wrote: »

None of that was done by Columbus personally, so I see no reason why a mass murderer should be celebrated, and the fact that you have to resort to talking about the achievements of others to defend this mass murderer shows how utterly ridiculous you reasoning is.

Errr... neither did he commit the 'mass murder' you're accusing him of.

The Columbus controversy surrounds what he represents; the beginning of an age of European colonization of the Americans and the slavery, genocide and exploitation perpetrated by those that followed. Thing is, those that followed also brought European technology, art and civilization.

And let's not get too teary eyed about pre-Colombian civilization either, unless we want to overlook human sacrifice that saw the Aztecs sacrifice up to 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days in 1487. But I suppose that's good mass murder?

jobbridge4life

The Corinthian wrote: »

Errr... neither did he commit the 'mass murder' you're accusing him of.

The Columbus controversy surrounds what he represents; the beginning of an age of European colonization of the Americans and the slavery, genocide and exploitation perpetrated by those that followed. Thing is, those that followed also brought European technology, art and civilization.

And let's not get too teary eyed about pre-Colombian civilization either, unless we want to overlook human sacrifice that saw the Aztecs sacrifice up to 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days in 1487. But I suppose that's good mass murder?

Liar. We all know the natives were environmentalists who lived in total harmony with the land, with a modest culture that placed great emphasis on the equality of women and extolled wisdom to all who would listen.

The Corinthian

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Liar. We all know the natives were environmentalists who lived in total harmony with the land, with a modest culture that placed great emphasis on the equality of women and extolled wisdom to all who would listen.

I really hope that was sarcasm.

stunmer

Correct decision that the charges are dropped. Unfortunately, she will see this as a victory.

She should be removed from her position as the welfare and diversity officer for not knowing the meaning of racism or sexism, something that I would assume is required for that position.

I, an ethnic minority woman cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describes structures of privilege based on race and gender.

And therefore women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist because we do not stand to benefit from such a system

citytillidie

zeffabelli wrote: »

Well, Columbus made it possible for millions of Europeans and currently South Americans and Mexicans who would have died of starvation from their classist home countries to survive.

If there was no US, generations and generations of Irish would have dropped dead from the famine. As many other Europeans would have.

You want all those descendants to go home and take their EUropean legacies with them? The science, the technology, the art, the design...

Vikings where there long before Columbus made it

Maguined

conorhal wrote: »

You should hardly need a vote to fire somebody who's job is as a diversity officer has seen you feel entitled to discriminate against a particular group of people.

The students union did not need a vote. They have the capacity to fire one of their officers for situations like this but they refused to fire her, probably did not want to get accused of oppressing her themselves. Due to the students unions inaction some students started the motion to remove her but failed to get enough students to sign it. The students union used this to mask their own inaction.

wes

The Corinthian wrote: »

Errr... neither did he commit the 'mass murder' you're accusing him of.

He was directly responsible for mass murder:

Columbus was a mass killer and father of the slave trade

A young, Catholic priest named Bartolomé de las Casas transcribed Columbus’s journals and later wrote about the violence he had witnessed. The fact that such crimes could potentially go unnoticed by future generations was deeply troubling to him. He expanded upon the extent of Columbus’s reign of terror within his multivolume book entitled the "History of the Indies":

"There were 60,000 people living on this island, including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over 3,000,000 people had perished from war, slavery, and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this? I myself writing it as a knowledgeable eyewitness can hardly believe it."

Amazing that people will deny this fact to this day.

The Corinthian wrote: »

The Columbus controversy surrounds what he represents; the beginning of an age of European colonization of the Americans and the slavery, genocide and exploitation perpetrated by those that followed. Thing is, those that followed also brought European technology, art and civilization.

Again, completely irrelevant to the fact that he was a mass murderer. All the progress that came after, doesn't change that fact, and the denial going on here is rather horrifying.

The Corinthian wrote: »

And let's not get too teary eyed about pre-Colombian civilization either, unless we want to overlook human sacrifice that saw the Aztecs sacrifice up to 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days in 1487. But I suppose that's good mass murder?

I never mentioned or defended anything to do with the Aztec's, so I am at a loss as to why you mention it. Did you read my post? You seem to have invented something to argue against.

Its amazing that so many are so willing to celebrate a mass murderer.

zeffabelli

citytillidie wrote: »

Vikings where there long before Columbus made it

I'm aware of that but he "discovered" it. He brought it to attention.

zeffabelli

wes wrote: »

He was directly responsible for mass murder:

Columbus was a mass killer and father of the slave trade



Amazing that people will deny this fact to this day.



A

"There were 60,000 people living on this island, including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over 3,000,000 people had perished from war, slavery, and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this? I myself writing it as a knowledgeable eyewitness can hardly believe it."

So there WERE 60.000 but then over 3 million perished from war and slavery?

How can 3 million die if there were 60,000 in the first place...

Secondly if it took the GErmans as much as technology as it did to kill 6 million JEws, where the hell did Columbus get the technology at the time to kill 3 million...

And that's even before we start questioning the numbers in the first place.

I didn't know they conducted census back then.....

wes

zeffabelli wrote: »

"There were 60,000 people living on this island, including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over 3,000,000 people had perished from war, slavery, and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this? I myself writing it as a knowledgeable eyewitness can hardly believe it."

So there WERE 60.000 but then over 3 million perished from war and slavery?

How can 3 million die if there were 60,000 in the first place...

Secondly if it took the GErmans as much as technology as it did to kill 6 million JEws, where the hell did Columbus get the technology at the time to kill 3 million...

And that's even before we start questioning the numbers in the first place.

I didn't know they conducted census back then.....

The priest is talking about a specific island that he was one, there is more than one Caribbean Island. There were people living on those other islands who were killed as well.

Amazing that so many are still willing to excuse this kind of thing to this day.

partyguinness

Okay this thread has gone waaaaay off track.

zeffabelli

wes wrote: »

The priest is talking about a specific island that he was one, there is more than one Caribbean Island. There were people living on those other islands who were killed as well.

Amazing that so many are still willing to excuse this kind of thing to this day.

It's amazing that people use contemporary morality to judge historical events and while also taking as gospel the diary entries of ONE man....

ANd doing so while using American technology....which does not have its roots in the CHerokee or Sioux tribes...

wes

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's amazing that people use contemporary morality to judge historical events and while also taking as gospel the diary entries of ONE man....

Now its a bit more than that. I just gave an example, as it a message board, and not a peer reviewed journal. Still you can look up the facts yourself. Columbus was pretty awful.

Also, I was talking about this in the context Columbus day, which is still celebrated in some places today.

Also, the Spanish arrested Columbus, so even by the standards of the time, he was a criminal. Think about how brutal you would have to be, for the authorities of the time to arrest.

zeffabelli wrote: »

ANd doing so while using American technology....which does not have its roots in the CHerokee or Sioux tribes...

The campaign to get rid of Columbus day, has come from the US, and I fail to see how saying that a Italian who lived 100s of years ago murdered a bunch of people, has a damn thing to do with using American technology. The USA didn't even exist when Columbus was alive.

Seriously, your throwing out some really random rubbish, to defend a man who was tyrant and murderer, who was arrested by the authorities of the time, and some how you think this nutter should be celebrated.

zeffabelli

wes wrote: »

Now its a bit more than that. I just gave an example, as it a message board, and not a peer reviewed journal. Still you can look up the facts yourself. Columbus was pretty awful.

Also, I was talking about this in the context Columbus day, which is still celebrated in some places today.

Also, the Spanish arrested Columbus, so even by the standards of the time, he was a criminal. Think about how brutal you would have to be, for the authorities of the time to arrest.



The campaign to get rid of Columbus day, has come from the US, and I fail to see how saying that a Italian who lived 100s of years ago murdered a bunch of people, has a damn thing to do with using American technology. The USA didn't even exist when Columbus was alive.

Seriously, your throwing out some really random rubbish, to defend a man who was tyrant and murderer, who was arrested by the authorities of the time, and some how you think this nutter should be celebrated.

Symbolically he is very important to Italian Americans who have made a significant contribution to the US. He is their St. Patrick.

If you want a worthwhile cause, maybe take up with the Che Guevara festivals they have in Killkee.

Everything we have from the US, including the technology you are using right now, is because of the US, and half of us would be non existent if he did not make that discovery.

He got arrested? So what? Arrest in of itself doesn't tell me anything. Martin Luther King got arrested FFS. So did Oscar Wilde. Plenty of worthwhile people went to prison. And he successfully disputed the charges and was soon released.

super_furry

Hang on, I'm confused just who is trying to kill all the white men? Is it the Vikings or Christopher Columbus?

zeffabelli

super_furry wrote: »

Hang on, I'm confused just who is trying to kill all the white men? Is it the Vikings or Christopher Columbus?

Basically I am being asked to believe that Columbus killed 3,000,000 natives.

With what technology to do so? How could anyone have done that in that age without modern technology and organisation?

wes

zeffabelli wrote: »

Symbolically he is very important to Italian Americans who have made a significant contribution to the US. He is their St. Patrick.

Fair enough, but it took you a while to get anywhere near a valid point. Now Native American's understandably disagree, and they along with other American's are campaigning against Columbus day, due to the mans well known crimes.

zeffabelli wrote: »

If you want a worthwhile cause, maybe take up with the Che Guevara festivals they have in Killkee.

Could care less about Che and his nonsense. You quite frankly are no better than the people who lionize and diminish the crap Che pulled.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Everything we have from the US, including the technology you are using right now, is because of the US, and half of us would be non existent if he did not make that discovery.

None of that changes the fact he was a mass murderer, and trying to somehow claim he is responsible for all the technology build since is laughable. The same could be said if the Spanish royalty didn't fund him, but I see no one sane person making that claim that Spain is actually responsible for everything the US has accomplished since then.

Seriously, you engaged in some desperate reaching there.

BTW, a lot awful people can be defended by using the exact same logic.

zeffabelli wrote: »

He got arrested? So what? Arrest in of itself doesn't tell me anything. Martin Luther King got arrested FFS. So did Oscar Wilde. Plenty of worthwhile people went to prison. And he successfully disputed the charges and was soon released.

So your comparing Columbus to MLK and Oscar Wilde........

Ok, your a fan of mass murderer, well good for you. Whether you like it or not Columbus isn't responsible for all the good stuff the US did, and btw surely Amerigo Vespucci should get all the credit you are giving to Columbus, seeing as he was the one who figured out that Columbus was not in India......

zeffabelli

wes wrote: »

Fair enough, but it took you a while to get anywhere near a valid point. Now Native American's understandably disagree, and they along with other American's are campaigning against Columbus day, due to the mans well known crimes.



Could care less about Che and his nonsense. You quite frankly are no better than the people who lionize and diminish the crap Che pulled.



None of that changes the fact he was a mass murderer, and trying to somehow claim he is responsible for all the technology build since is laughable. The same could be said if the Spanish royalty didn't fund him, but I see no one sane person making that claim that Spain is actually responsible for everything the US has accomplished since then.

Seriously, you engaged in some desperate reaching there.

BTW, a lot awful people can be defended by using the exact same logic.



So your comparing Columbus to MLK and Oscar Wilde........

Ok, your a fan of mass murderer, well good for you. Whether you like it or not Columbus isn't responsible for all the good stuff the US did, and btw surely Amerigo Vespucci should get all the credit you are giving to Columbus, seeing as he was the one who figured out that Columbus was not in India......

Listen, do you understand the difference between killing and murder? You are using legal terminology. That's right yeah, Im a fan of mass murder. Ok if you want to debate at that level find someone who is willing to play in the kiddie pool with you. Because that kind of debate is beneath me I am afraid.

Clearly you're reading comprehension makes this discussion impossible. You post a dubious article from Irish central.

So tell me how he killed 3 million people with the technology he had available?

Also saying to me "you are no better...than" you have now decided to take a morally superior stance over me... you have no place to take such a position and you are out of line.