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Help with building Granny flat

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  • 07-10-2015 10:09am
    #1
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭


    Hi Guys,

    I have I have been approved a loan AIP by the bank with the intension of converting the garage to the rear of my property into a granny flat. I want to do this correctly so have been looking into the various laws and arrangements that are required but would like some assistance from anyone more in the know than me if possible.

    The property is Semi D and the garage size is 38 Sqm , the garage itself has planning permission from back in 1980 or so when it was constructed. I have looked into the costs of the conversion and that part is all fine, the aim will be to rent it out possibly in the future or use as a guest house it will have it's own entrance from the side gate of the main house... So i have the following queries.

    Planning permission - Which way should I go about this? The garage has planning permission , is it a change of use I'm looking for here or retention? Generally how hard is it to be granted this?

    PRTB & Tax - If I decide to go ahead and rent I'd imagine that I will register with the PRTB officially and pay tax as a self assessment on any rental income yearly? Is there a bracket of what you can earn before paying tax or is it applied to everything?

    Insurance - Should the property be insured under my own house insurance as an extra stated on the policy or will it require it's own insurance policy?

    BER - Will the property require it's own BER cert?

    In terms of H & S , the property will be supplied with the relevent requirments.

    Thanks for any help in advance.


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    #2
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭Alkers


    As far as I recall a granny flat falls under the rent a room scheme for tax purposes. Is the garage detached?


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    #3
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    Yes it's detached , it's resides at the end of my back garden..


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    #4
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Yes it's detached , it's resides at the end of my back garden..

    Then it cannot be classed as a granny flat.


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    #5
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Then it cannot be classed as a granny flat.

    Then what is it classed as?


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    #6
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Then what is it classed as?

    A garage.....

    ....in order to convert it into a habitable space, then full planning permission for a separate dwelling would be required.


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    #7
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭Alkers


    "4.2 Self-contained unit
    It is not possible to let an entire residence because the room or rooms that are let must
    form part of the residence and the residence must be occupied by the individual
    receiving the rent as his/her sole or main residence. The room or rooms can comprise
    a self-contained unit within the residence such as a basement flat or a converted
    garage attached to the residence. However, a self-contained unit that is adjacent to the
    residence but not actually attached to it cannot qualify for the relief."


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    #8
    Skerries
    Registered Users Posts: 12,459 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    build a little tunnel, great for the kids :)
    Untitled Image




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    #9
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    So if I connect it to the main house via a tunner or something similar then it changes it's classification?

    Ireland for you...I've read up on the laws so I have an understanding now of what is classed as what. It shouldn't really make a differance if it's attached or not , it's on my land never the less and accessable to me freely.


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    #10
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    So if I connect it to the main house via a tunner or something similar then it changes it's classification?

    Ireland for you...I've read up on the laws so I have an understanding now of what is classed as what. It shouldn't really make a differance if it's attached or not , it's on my land never the less and accessable to me freely.

    Not an Irish thing at all. If two units are not connected they cannot be classified as a single dwelling with annex.


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    #11
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Not an Irish thing at all. If two units are not connected they cannot be classified as a single dwelling with annex.

    But would them being connected via electricity , gas, water & access not count as 'being connected'


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Not an Irish thing at all. If two units are not connected they cannot be classified as a single dwelling with annex.

    They don't necessarily need to be connected though to avail of the rent a room scheme that's clear from the regulations already posted.


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    #13
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Marissa Magnificent Barge wrote: »
    They don't necessarily need to be connected though to avail of the rent a room scheme that's clear from the regulations already posted.

    I think you need to read the regulations again:)


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    I think you need to read the regulations again:)

    Sorry I miss read the above but I'm almost certain I have read before that a non attached garage etc can qualify also if its behind the house or something along those lines.


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    #15
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    But would them being connected via electricity , gas, water & access not count as 'being connected'

    The wording used is attached, not connected.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If the garage is very close it may be worth connecting them, if its only a few meters of blocks etc. The savings on tax alone in just one year could cover the cost.


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    #17
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,754 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Marissa Magnificent Barge wrote: »
    If the garage is very close it may be worth connecting them, if its only a few meters of blocks etc. The savings on tax alone in just one year could cover the cost.

    It doesn't matter. Even if you get permission for the change of use into a granny flat, it's almost always a planning condition that it cannot be used to be rented out, and must remain part of the same dwelling. If it is to be rented out as a separate living space you need permission for that too.


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    #18
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Marissa Magnificent Barge wrote: »
    Sorry I miss read the above but I'm almost certain I have read before that a non attached garage etc can qualify also if its behind the house or something along those lines.

    You might be thinking of exempt development which has nothing to do with this conversation.


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    #19
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    I'm not sure if I will be renting it tbh , more than likely I want it for my own use but still need planning permission for that.

    It's a bit crazy to be honest, Dublin has a huge requirement for rental properties at the minute , people building studios like that could ease the tention if the council would back them and take some of the red tape away. As long at they were built well , under regulations and had good BER's etc..

    Anyway I think I'll just ring the local council tomorrow and speak to someone in planning and see what it is they want me to do.


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Penn wrote: »
    It doesn't matter. Even if you get permission for the change of use into a granny flat, it's almost always a planning condition that it cannot be used to be rented out, and must remain part of the same dwelling. If it is to be rented out as a separate living space you need permission for that too.

    Well if they are connected and have a door between them (which can be left locked at all times) then it is part of the same dwelling. It also wouldn't be rented out it would be a rent a room in this instance. The fact that it can operate as a self contained unit is irrelevant once its connected (and therefore part) of the main dwelling.


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    #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    I'm not sure if I will be renting it tbh , more than likely I want it for my own use but still need planning permission for that.

    It's a bit crazy to be honest, Dublin has a huge requirement for rental properties at the minute , people building studios like that could ease the tention if the council would back them and take some of the red tape away. As long at they were built well , under regulations and had good BER's etc..

    Anyway I think I'll just ring the local council tomorrow and speak to someone in planning and see what it is they want me to do.
    Marissa Magnificent Barge wrote: »
    Well if they are connected and have a door between them (which can be left locked at all times) then it is part of the same dwelling. It also wouldn't be rented out it would be a rent a room in this instance. The fact that it can operate as a self contained unit is irrelevant once its connected (and therefore part) of the main dwelling.

    Dublin City Council require a written letter stating who will use the unit and for what reason in order to be granted permission for a Granny flat.
    In order for an application to be considered as ancillary family accommodation it must satisfy the requirement of the development plan. Assessing the application against the above criteria, it is noted that a case for ancillary family accommodation has not been put forward for this development and as such it is not clear if there is a need for the development at this location. Further information will be sought on this point.

    The granny flat has to be connected to the existing house with permanent access available between the 2. It is classed as an extension to the main dwelling so that when the use of the unit ceases to be a Granny Flat, then it becomes part of the main dwelling.

    You will not get permission for a stand alone unit, full stop.

    here are some of the conditions attached to a recent Granny Flat Permission I prepared :
    3. The proposed ancillary family accommodation shall be incidental to the enjoyment of the principal dwelling on site. It shall not be separated from the principal dwelling by lease or sale. Once the accommodation is no longer required for ancillary accommodation purposes, it shall revert back to being part of the original family house.

    Reason: In the interests of the proper planning and development of the area.
    4. Permanent internal access shall be maintained between the existing main house and the ancillary family accommodation hereby approved.

    Reason: To ensure a satisfactory standard of development.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kceire wrote: »
    Dublin City Council require a written letter stating who will use the unit and for what reason in order to be granted permission for a Granny flat.

    Its use could of course change use over time, starting out being for family and then be a rent a room as rent a room is a very low key thing, no PRTB or regulations etc.
    kceire wrote: »
    permanent access available between the 2.

    A door will give that and it can be locked if the granny flat is being used as a rent a room.


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Marissa Magnificent Barge wrote: »
    Its use could of course change use over time, starting out being for family and then be a rent a room as rent a room is a very low key thing, no PRTB or regulations etc.



    A door will give that and it can be locked if the granny flat is being used as a rent a room.

    No point preaching to me. I'm "in the game" so to speak.
    I was just posting exactly what the OP will need to satisfy for a granny flat.


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    #24
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    kceire wrote: »
    No point preaching to me. I'm "in the game" so to speak.
    I was just posting exactly what the OP will need to satisfy for a granny flat.

    And I appreciate your help , regardless if I think the regulations are a bit stupid or not , they are the regulations.

    I'll speak to the local council and connect the unit to the house if I have too, it's just a bit of extra work and pain to do that would prefer to just have side access but there ya go.

    As said , for now it will be a guest house , or a house with a beer fridge/Xbox when we all need that wind down time but god knows what it will be in the future. Never the less I'll prepare it for that, want to tell the neighbours I'll be working on it anyway for they are not disturbed for the building works.

    I checked up on the original build this afternoon , the garage is 38sqm and was constructed in 1971 with planning permission.


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    #25
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    And I appreciate your help , regardless if I think the regulations are a bit stupid or not , they are the regulations.

    I'll speak to the local council and connect the unit to the house if I have too, it's just a bit of extra work and pain to do that would prefer to just have side access but there ya go.

    As said , for now it will be a guest house , or a house with a beer fridge/Xbox when we all need that wind down time but god knows what it will be in the future. Never the less I'll prepare it for that, want to tell the neighbours I'll be working on it anyway for they are not disturbed for the building works.

    I checked up on the original build this afternoon , the garage is 38sqm and was constructed in 1971 with planning permission.

    What council are you in?


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    #26
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    kceire wrote: »
    What council are you in?

    Dublin , So Dublin North county council I'd imagine..


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    #27
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Dublin , So Dublin North county council I'd imagine..

    I think you mean Fingal ;)


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    #28
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I think you mean Fingal ;)

    Think I meant North Dublin City =)


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    #29
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Dublin , So Dublin North county council I'd imagine..

    If you want to PM me your exact address I can check for any history on the house etc from the internal system ;)


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    #30
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Think I meant North Dublin City =)

    That would be Dublin City council then :p


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    #31
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Sorry a bit OT but while there is an accommodation shortage in Dublin, no one is well served by every howya throwing up a glorified shed in the back garden, connecting it with a tent and charging €999.99 a month for it.

    While there is no suggestion the OP is thinking of doing this (or filling the back garden with shipping containers, portacabins, mobile homes, or Tipis) it has to be understood that the 'crisis' needs to be resolved while adhering to proper planning standards.


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