Rent Missing for Landlord account

FishOnABike

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Is there anything a tenant can do if a landlord attempts an illegal eviction? I know you can go after the landlord after the fact, but is there anything a tenant can do to protect themselves from actually being kicked out?

I'm just asking because from the sounds of it the landlord would have no problem just turning up while the OP is in work one of the days and changing the locks/tossing their stuff out onto the street. So if there is anything OP can do to prepare for that possibility then they probably should. Is there anything someone can do in that situation or is it just a case of move and then look for compensation?

If this occurs get the gardaí involved immediately.

If you have real concerns this might happen keep a copy of your lease and proof of current rent payments somewhere handy e.g. car glove compartment so you can prove your tenancy. They might be useful if you have to involve the gardai or a locksmith to regain entry.

Exclamation Marc

NATLOR wrote: »

OP can your bank not get in touch with the LL's bank and check the payments were received surely that would sort this

Banks wont do this. They'll provide proof that the payments were sent to the destination account as well as the unique transaction ID and the destination account details but they won't contact another bank once the payment has been correctly sent at their end.

colossus-x

I can't understand why the OP has not got a letter from his bank stating that they have verified themselves on their internal systems that payments were made.

The letter itself doesn't have to be the 'proof'. That would be enough to get the Landlord of the tenants back.

Lemming

colossus-x wrote: »

I can't understand why the OP has not got a letter from his bank stating that they have verified themselves on their internal systems that payments were made.

The letter itself doesn't have to be the 'proof'. That would be enough to get the Landlord of the tenants back.

Because banks don't do specially crafted letters for delicate snowflakes who can't sort their own lives business accounts out. An officially headed piece of paper showing transaction dates/IDs/destination IBAN & BIC codes/amount is all the proof needed because it is cold, hard data.

In any case, a letter talking about internal verification vs. what they don't otherwise internally verify would not do for confidence in ones banking system if there are two sets of data that contradict or omit banking transactions now would it?

davo10

FishOnABike wrote: »

If this occurs get the gardaí involved immediately.

If you have real concerns this might happen keep a copy of your lease and proof of current rent payments somewhere handy e.g. car glove compartment so you can prove your tenancy. They might be useful if you have to involve the gardai or a locksmith to regain entry.

Gardai will not get involved, it is a civil matter.

wuffly

Random info but might be worth looking into, does your landlord bank with EBS? All their transfers used to go through one holding account and sometimes transactions get stuck in the account ref numbers in the wrong places (not by the person making the transfer) even ones that have gone through before. Usually you just need to go to your branch and get the person on the counter to check with the person that manages the account with the transaction details. They might be able to deal with it over the phone but it might be easier in person. Once they find the transfer and are satisfied the details are enough to complete the transfer they send it through. I worked in EBS years ago and this happened a few times. Anyway if he doesn't bank with ESB its no use to you but if he does he should follow it up as the transfer is going to him.

FAILSAFE 00

Is there any middleman involved OP between you and the landlord like a agent that manages it on behalf of the landlord?

Turfcutter

Wow, 19 pages on an issue that should be resolved in 10 minutes!

Tiddlypeeps

Turfcutter wrote: »

Wow, 19 pages on an issue that should be resolved in 10 minutes!

Are you implying there is something the OP could have done, but has not done, that could resolve this issue in 10 minutes? If that is the case then it might be useful to maybe share your great idea with the OP instead of just being condescending. :rolleyes:

testaccount123

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Are you implying there is something the OP could have done, but has not done, that could resolve this issue in 10 minutes? If that is the case then it might be useful to maybe share your great idea with the OP instead of just being condescending. :rolleyes:

Send the SEPA payment reference for each transaction to the landlord. This has been mentioned multiple times in the thread. These are proof of payment.

Turfcutter

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Are you implying there is something the OP could have done, but has not done, that could resolve this issue in 10 minutes? If that is the case then it might be useful to maybe share your great idea with the OP instead of just being condescending. :rolleyes:

Hmmm, how about...

a) Here LL. Send me a photo of your bank statement via whatsapp/sms/email so I can see the payments that went through and/or didn't.
b) Let's meet up and step through both bank statements and see what you say is missing.
c) Let's do it over the phone, if meeting up doesn't suit.

Maybe I've missed something, but has there any attempt made to establish what payments were good, when they supposedly stopped, how the arrears was derived etc.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

He did and he got a self made spreadsheet saying he was wrong in return

Clearlier

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

Ok update, LL emailed to state received post with bank statements and that per their bank it's not enough information. LL stated that spread sheet attached details no payments made. Well the spread sheet attached is self created not a bank one. So I'm just not sure. I received a phone call from PRTB re mediation via phone so I'm hopeful there. I've provided proof and still have nothing from LL that payments weren't made so I'm suspicious. Thoughts??

You could ask him to ask his bank to detail what information they require but payments do go missing due to a bank error and it may well have happened here. As awec said the idea that the landlord is trying it on in some way is unlikely, they probably do genuinely think that you're trying to pull a fast one on them and if the payment has gone missing then his bank won't be helping by simply saying that they never received a payment from your account.

The obvious first step provided you were both willing would be to show each other your account details but there are plenty of good reasons why you both wouldn't want to do that.

Failing the above some kind of formal statement from your respective banks stating that you have sent the money to his account (account details provided) and that he has not received payment into that same account from yours should be enough to establish that you've made the payment and he hasn't received it.

Unfortunately if you reach this point the problem is probably yours and not his because although you attempted to transfer the money in good faith you haven't actually paid him if your bank screwed up.

You should then make a complaint to your bank saying that you sent a payment that has not been received by the intended recipient. They need to track the payment down and find out where it went. You really should get this done ASAP because it will likely take the bank time to track down what happened.

sassa

Turfcutter wrote: »

Maybe I've missed something, but has there any attempt made to establish what payments were good, when they supposedly stopped, how the arrears was derived etc.

You've missed a lot. The op has sent proof redacted statements that show the payments have gone through, the LL is asking for full statements which he has no right to as it's none of his business what the op does with the rest of their money. LL has disputed the op's statements with a spreadsheet he had made up himself which is not proof of alleged missed payments.

NoCrackHaving

Clearlier wrote: »

You could ask him to ask his bank to detail what information they require but payments do go missing due to a bank error and it may well have happened here. As awec said the idea that the landlord is trying it on in some way is unlikely, they probably do genuinely think that you're trying to pull a fast one on them and if the payment has gone missing then his bank won't be helping by simply saying that they never received a payment from your account.

The obvious first step provided you were both willing would be to show each other your account details but there are plenty of good reasons why you both wouldn't want to do that.

Failing the above some kind of formal statement from your respective banks stating that you have sent the money to his account (account details provided) and that he has not received payment into that same account from yours should be enough to establish that you've made the payment and he hasn't received it.

Unfortunately if you reach this point the problem is probably yours and not his because although you attempted to transfer the money in good faith you haven't actually paid him if your bank screwed up.

You should then make a complaint to your bank saying that you sent a payment that has not been received by the intended recipient. They need to track the payment down and find out where it went. You really should get this done ASAP because it will likely take the bank time to track down what happened.

This is very, very unlikely to be honest due to the fact that other payments have gone through to the account on multiple occasions.

Clearlier

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

This is very, very unlikely to be honest due to the fact that other payments have gone through to the account on multiple occasions.

I agree and when a payment goes missing it's usually only a one off thing but the whole story is pretty unlikely*. I still think that the best way forward is to establish to both parties satisfaction that the payment was made and not received and to then follow up with the bank to determine what happened to the payment.








* If I had to guess I'd say that there was a typo made by the OP in the payment details that still hasn't been picked up although I recognise that that doesn't fit with all of the information provided.

Cookie_Dough

Turfcutter wrote: »

Hmmm, how about...

a) Here LL. Send me a photo of your bank statement via whatsapp/sms/email so I can see the payments that went through and/or didn't.
b) Let's meet up and step through both bank statements and see what you say is missing.
c) Let's do it over the phone, if meeting up doesn't suit.

Maybe I've missed something, but has there any attempt made to establish what payments were good, when they supposedly stopped, how the arrears was derived etc.

From what I can gather from reading whole thread is-

a) LL won't share bank statement and has sent OP a self made spreadsheet with details of payments which, to me, to not serve as any proof. LL has requested unredacted bank statements from OP looking to check payments but has, at no point, offered to share his own bank statements to attempt to clarify or resove the matter.

b) LL has attempted to meet with OP, OP said time suggested by LL doesn't suit so had suggested they made arrangements for another time. LL was highly unreasonable IMO and issued an eviction notice/14 day letter to quit to OP (I could have picked this up wrong though)

c) Again as per above answers LL is being unresonable and will not attempt to negotiate an alternative time for OP to meet and discuss.

LL is also saying the SOME payments went through but no all which sounds a bit off to me. OP has also gone through there bank statements/transactions with a bank official and they payments have been confirmed.

From reading the thread, the LL is being unreasonable and is expecting the OP to accept what he is saying and to do all the running. The LL seems to be employing intimidation tactics at the moments. I don't see what else the OP can do if the LL won't co-operate. The hold up seems to be on LL end and the OP appears to have done all s/he can do in this case.

NATLOR

If i was missing six and a half grand in rent payments id be knocking on my tenants doors pretty sharpish with all the necessary proof yet the ll doesnt seem too pushed in making direct contact or setting up a meeting with the OP.

Its all very odd

Butters1979

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

Ok update, LL emailed to state received post with bank statements and that per their bank it's not enough information. LL stated that spread sheet attached details no payments made. Well the spread sheet attached is self created not a bank one. So I'm just not sure. I received a phone call from PRTB re mediation via phone so I'm hopeful there. I've provided proof and still have nothing from LL that payments weren't made so I'm suspicious. Thoughts??

I can't actually believe this. The LL is actually saying your bank statements aren't enough as proof yet his spreadsheet is? I can give you a spreadsheet now to show you've overpaid him and he owes you the money.

This sounds more and more like something really dodgy and maybe an excuse to get you out. If I were you I'd get very careful here. Get a camera in your house, keep proof of all this and any documents away from home. Can you keep those in work?

This is bordering on harassment at this stage.

REXER

NATLOR wrote: »

If i was missing six and a half grand in rent payments id be knocking on my tenants doors pretty sharpish with all the necessary proof yet the ll doesnt seem too pushed in making direct contact or setting up a meeting with the OP.

Its all very odd

If you were missing six and a half grand in rent over that amount of time I would call you a piss poor "businessman", incapable of keeping track of your own accounts and clearly not able to run your own affairs!

Not attacking your post, just saying.

Its all very odd indeed!

BreadnBuddha

Whether it's right or wrong, there's a simple way to settle this matter.

Show him the bank statements.

All he cares about is whether you've paid the rent to him or not. You either want to sort this out or you don't. It's a simple solution and to be quite fair, you're only making all of this more difficult for yourself that it needed to be.

He doesn't care about your netflix subscription, nights out or what you're paid.

All he cares about is that you're not wrecking his property, making a social nuisance of yourself and causing him hassle, and most importantly that you're paying the rent in full and on time. Even outstanding phone bills and esb bills can be covered as billing periods can be negotiated, of you can tell him they're sometimes paid in the post office or whatever. Show that the money was sent directly from your account on time for the rent and that it didn't bounce back.

Black out the euro amounts for all the other things if you want, but leave the notation/description there so he can see clearly that it's not a bounced payment/credit that should have been rent paid to him. That's all he wants to see, unless there's something else that's caused all of this.

Cookie_Dough

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Whether it's right or wrong, there's a simple way to settle this matter.

Show him the bank statements.

All he cares about is whether you've paid the rent to him or not. You either want to sort this out or you don't. It's a simple solution and to be quite fair, you're only making all of this more difficult for yourself that it needed to be.

He doesn't care about your netflix subscription, nights out or what you're paid.

All he cares about is that you're not wrecking his property, making a social nuisance of yourself and causing him hassle, and most importantly that you're paying the rent in full and on time. Even outstanding phone bills and esb bills can be covered as billing periods can be negotiated, of you can tell him they're sometimes paid in the post office or whatever. Show that the money was sent directly from your account on time for the rent and that it didn't bounce back.

Black out the euro amounts for all the other things if you want, but leave the notation/description there so he can see clearly that it's not a bounced payment/credit that should have been rent paid to him. That's all he wants to see, unless there's something else that's caused all of this.

I would black out the Euro amount as I would be concerned that the LL is also trying to get a sneaky look at the OPs finances. OP states that rent hasn't been raised in 18months. Based on the info the OP has given about the LL this wouldn't surprise me.

If I was in the LLs position and out of pocket by thousands or euro as he is maintaing, I would be pulling my weight and doing my utmost to get this sorted.

NoCrackHaving

Clearlier wrote: »

I agree and when a payment goes missing it's usually only a one off thing but the whole story is pretty unlikely*. I still think that the best way forward is to establish to both parties satisfaction that the payment was made and not received and to then follow up with the bank to determine what happened to the payment.








* If I had to guess I'd say that there was a typo made by the OP in the payment details that still hasn't been picked up although I recognise that that doesn't fit with all of the information provided.

Usually I'd agree that a typo is at fault but as you say this doesn't tally up with the information provided. There's no possibility that money could just find its way to the LL's account when a wrong account number had been entered. Also the Op had been happily paying rent for at least 12 months prior to this and suddenly the account details are wrong? Not just unlikely but impossible.

The landlord is chancing his arm here. I wouldn't be keeping any documents in the house with this chancer lurking around.

NoCrackHaving

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Whether it's right or wrong, there's a simple way to settle this matter.

Show him the bank statements.

All he cares about is whether you've paid the rent to him or not. You either want to sort this out or you don't. It's a simple solution and to be quite fair, you're only making all of this more difficult for yourself that it needed to be.

He doesn't care about your netflix subscription, nights out or what you're paid.

All he cares about is that you're not wrecking his property, making a social nuisance of yourself and causing him hassle, and most importantly that you're paying the rent in full and on time. Even outstanding phone bills and esb bills can be covered as billing periods can be negotiated, of you can tell him they're sometimes paid in the post office or whatever. Show that the money was sent directly from your account on time for the rent and that it didn't bounce back.

Black out the euro amounts for all the other things if you want, but leave the notation/description there so he can see clearly that it's not a bounced payment/credit that should have been rent paid to him. That's all he wants to see, unless there's something else that's caused all of this.

Read the thread and you'll see the OP has already done this.

BreadnBuddha

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I would black out the Euro amount as I would be concerned that the LL is also trying to get a sneaky look at the OPs finances. OP states that rent hasn't been raised in 18months. Based on the info the OP has given about the LL this wouldn't surprise me.

If I was in the LLs position and out of pocket by thousands or euro as he is maintaing, I would be pulling my weight and doing my utmost to get this sorted.

I already suggested blacking out the euro amounts.

When I pay my rent, I put 'Name, Month, 'Rent' into the description/notation for the payment I make online. It makes it easy for the landlord to see we've paid on time and for which months rent the payment has been made.

Can you imagine if you had a few rental properties with people paying partial payments, late payments, different amounts for different addresses and totally random note like 'Rent' or 'John' in the description.

People can make this stuff easy on themselves or put themselves in the line of fire. The OP's being difficult when they're the one who will have a bigger problem to deal with. Show the statements and be done with it.

BreadnBuddha

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Read the thread and you'll see the OP has already done this.

I read the thread.

The OP has redacted the other lines on the statements, leaving the outgoing rent entries.

That WILL look like he's trying to hide something. I can't fault the LL for being unhappy with that kind of thing.

It's not like the OP is saying he's had nothing but hassle for 18 months. All was well and good until the LL figured he hasn't received the rent for a few months and instead of settling it up quickly with the LL, he's been difficult and trying to give everything except what the LL has asked to satisfy his concern.

The LL is wrong, it would appear, but the OP isn't making it any easier for them to clear it up quickly and without hassle.

Turfcutter

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Maybe try actually reading the thread....

Yes, and I still don't see any evidence of anybody trying to drill down and identify the transactions that are good and bogus. Did they supposedly stop completely at a certain point in time? Were some months good and some bad over a longer time period? Where has the €6500 arrears figure come from?

The OP at one stage said "Also these are rent payments from over 3 months ago and LL admits to getting October September and August rent which is insane".

So it appears to be an intermittent problem?

Maybe the LL wants to see what the unredacted balance in the OP's account was at these particular bad months to see if the account had gone into the red.

I wonder how did the LL's spreadsheet tally with the outgoings from the OP's bank statement? As in, maybe he is getting mixed up with a different tenant. Are the the payments that go across flagged with a description to make it easy to differentiate.

Tiddlypeeps

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I read the thread.

The OP has redacted the other lines on the statements, leaving the outgoing rent entries.

That WILL look like he's trying to hide something. I can't fault the LL for being unhappy with that kind of thing.

It's not like the OP is saying he's had nothing but hassle for 18 months. All was well and good until the LL figured he hasn't received the rent for a few months and instead of settling it up quickly with the LL, he's been difficult and trying to give everything except what the LL has asked to satisfy his concern.

The LL is wrong, it would appear, but the OP isn't making it any easier for them to clear it up quickly and without hassle.

The OP also went into the bank and got a statement from them listing all the payments to the LL. This was also considered by the LL to be not good enough.

BreadnBuddha

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

The OP also went into the bank and got a statement from them listing all the payments to the LL. This was also considered by the LL to be not good enough.

Yeah, because a statement of outgoing payments doesn't show whether they came back. SEPA payment slips, customised debit statements, whatever. The LL wants to see a bank statement. Bank statements all look the same. They show all the credits and debits. It's a common document and he can very quickly see the payments made and that they haven't returned to the OP's account. That's all he asked for at the start so why not just show him the bloody thing and be done with it!

desertcircus

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Yeah, because a statement of outgoing payments doesn't show whether they came back. SEPA payment slips, customised debit statements, whatever. The LL wants to see a bank statement. Bank statements all look the same. They show all the credits and debits. It's a common document and he can very quickly see the payments made and that they haven't returned to the OP's account. That's all he asked for at the start so why not just show him the bloody thing and be done with it!

Because if the OP has a monthly savings amount of 300 quid, the landlord will conveniently increase the rent by 300 a month.