Rent Missing for Landlord account

Call me Al

Have you confirmed the bank details that you pay to with him and the amounts and dates you paid? Are you certain these are correct? Can you remember when and how he gave you the details?

I just want to clarify what you mean when you say you pay by direct debit. A direct debit means that the money is taken out from your account by him or his agent, and you don't have to do anything, other than allow the bank to process the transaction, and the onus is on him to make sure all of the details are correct. But a standing order or electronic funds transfer is completed by you to him, and he should be giving you the correct bank details to pay to.
Have the funds been returned to you at a later stage during the month maybe?
If the bank details are correct and the funds are not returned then he needs to redo his bank reconciliation I think.

awec

Nobody pays rent by direct debit.

It's either a standing order or a bank transfer. What the OP has described in the thread is a bank transfer.

"Direct debit" just seems to be the word people use for any sort of electronic payment over cash in hand.

Call me Al

awec wrote: »

It's unlikely to be a mistake by the bank, these things are not manual on their side I don't think.

Either the landlord has made a mistake looking at his accounts (unlikely for a figure of over 6k), or the OP has been sending payments to the wrong account.

Really the OP needs to ask the landlord for their IBAN and BIC and compare that to what she has saved in her online banking. If they aren't the same then the problem has been found and the OP is going to have to go on the merry dance of trying to get their money back.

She needs to check what bank details the landlord gave her first I think. It may also be a case that what she was given and what is correct are not the same thing.

awec

Call me Al wrote: »

She needs to check what bank details the landlord gave her first I think. It may also be a case that what she was given and what is correct are not the same thing.

Compare all three at once.

She needs to make sure the landlord gives her the details as he reads it off his online banking, and not off some bit of paper that he's written down ages ago in case he has written it down wrong.

Either way though if the OP has been sending to the wrong account it's going to be up to them to try get their money back from whomever they have sent it to. I am pretty sure banks have a mechanism for this but I would guess it can get messy if the unintended recipient has already spent it.

TheChizler

I don't know of any bank that insist that standing orders go out on the 1st of each month, you can normally select what date you want it to be processed on.

Call me Al

I was just thinking it's impossible to input an incorrect iban and bic. But it is possible to input incorrect bank acct and bic.

Op, did you use an iban (one of those really long bank account numbers)?

Metroboulot

OP, you are going to confuse the bank and the landlord by using the wrong terminology.

You're paying by "electronic transfer" not by "direct debit"

Direct Debit specifically refers to where you sign up with a company and they have permission to take varying amounts automatically from your current account e.g. for an electricity bill, phone bill etc.

If you go into your local branch and explain that you have made a series of online electronic payments that have not been received at the other end, they will help you out.

You should be able to get a list of the transactions, who they were to, how much they were for and a transaction reference number for all of them. There's absolutely no ambiguity about this whatsoever.

You do not need to provide anyone with a statement of your bank account, rather you just need to get the bank to print that on some kind of official paper. In fact, to trace the transaction you will need more than a statement reference anyway. There are transaction numbers that go with each SEPA payment.

Just looked at AIB there:

You'll get:

Sender Details:
Your name
Your BIC
Your IBAN
Statement Message

Receiver Details:
Name
BIC
IBAN
Statement Message
Bank Name
Bank Address
Receiver's Bank Country
Additional Information

Payment details:
Amount
Currency
Payment fee
Reference number (Transaction ID)
Date
Status (e.g. completed)

It's an odd one as you'll have to prove you paid it, but if he hasn't received it and his details are correct, it's really not your problem.

If you've paid into someone else's account instead, then you're going to have a major issue retrieving the money as the banks cannot just reverse transactions and will have to contact the receiver.

If you're using IBAN numbers, there are check digits which make entering an incorrect number much more unlikely, but if you set it up using a sort code and account number i.e. like 9X-XX-XX 12345678, then you could have miskeyed it and sent it somewhere else.

First port of call is your bank branch, directly (preferably in person), not the telephone banking number.

Also, most online banking systems allow you to go in and query a specific type of transaction.
AIB for example, will let you pull up payment history for electronic payments made with online banking and just print it off.

ConfusedNow13

I was confusing the two I'm making a transfer with saved details the BIC and IBAN numbers that the LL states has received payments from. Even Octobers rent. I am confused because LL is claiming that 6 months plus a few hundred extra has not been paid. And that it was just noticed now. I have supplied the log of payments from my on line acess and the LL is stating they want my whole bank statement. They will not provide the exact payments that are missing or account for the few hundred extra. If the money is lost cyber wise I will have to deal with it but I'm not sure what else to do. Will threshold be of any help? Do they usually email back in a day or so?

awec

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I was confusing the two I'm making a transfer with saved details the BIC and IBAN numbers that the LL states has received payments from. Even Octobers rent. I am confused because LL is claiming that 6 months plus a few hundred extra has not been paid. And that it was just noticed now. I have supplied the log of payments from my on line acess and the LL is stating they want my whole bank statement. They will not provide the exact payments that are missing or account for the few hundred extra. If the money is lost cyber wise I will have to deal with it but I'm not sure what else to do. Will threshold be of any help? Do they usually email back in a day or so?

Threshold will be no help. This is a banking issue really.

Just to be sure, you are saying the landlord says he is only missing SOME rent from you, not all the rent since you moved in?

And you have paid the rent in the exact same way every month? And you can verify that none of your payments failed?

Metroboulot

You've no obligation whatsoever to provide your full bank statement. They're nether a legal certificate nor are they intended as a receipt for a transaction.

The bank can provide proof of payment if it's needed without your statement. There's a lot of information on that you may / may not wish to share that has nothing whatever to do with the transaction.

All you have to do is provide reasonable proof that the transactions occurred, and were sent to the correct account.

Demanding bank statements is actually a big data protection issue.

It's quite likely there's some kind of a screw up here either at your side or the landlord's not seeing the transactions for some reason.

If that's the case, you just need to resolved it. It sounds like the landlord thinks you're providing fake printed information to fob him off or something.

Step 1:
Verify that you have definitely sent the transaction to the account (as provided by the landlord). If you have an original email or document with the account number on it, this would be very useful as it's possible he gave you the wrong details, in which case, it may be his problem too.

Step 2: If the details are all correct contact your bank and explain what's going on. They may need to provide you with a print out or even raise it with his bank and find out what's going on.

Step 3: If you have sent the transactions to a wrong account, it's urgent you try to get the bank to work on retrieving the money. If it was an invalid account, it would typically come back automatically, but if you sent it to a valid account it'd quite likely still be there.

Step 4: if your transaction has been sent correctly, and your landlord is still disputing this, contact Threshold and bring all the evidence with you.

Metroboulot

One quick follow up question:

Has he received any transactions from you in the past? Or, is he claiming he never had any rent from you from day one?

If you've set him up as a payee and have made payments successfully in the past, then there's something very odd going on either at his end, or with the bank.

davo10

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I was confusing the two I'm making a transfer with saved details the BIC and IBAN numbers that the LL states has received payments from. Even Octobers rent. I am confused because LL is claiming that 6 months plus a few hundred extra has not been paid. And that it was just noticed now. I have supplied the log of payments from my on line acess and the LL is stating they want my whole bank statement. They will not provide the exact payments that are missing or account for the few hundred extra. If the money is lost cyber wise I will have to deal with it but I'm not sure what else to do. Will threshold be of any help? Do they usually email back in a day or so?

Op I think you are confused because you do not seem to understand what is going on. This should be simple for both you and the landlord to clarify what has been done. For your part, firstly confirm that the money has actually left your account, go back over your statements and make sure your account has been debited by the correct amount each month. Next ask the LL to confirm his BIC and IBAN, see if this corresponds to the details you have entered. If he hasn't received the money, ask him to confirm which months are missing and check these against your bank statement. This isn't a case for Threshold, this is a case of you making sure the correct amount left your account on the correct dates and went to the correct recipient.

Eugene Norman

Metroboulot wrote: »

One quick follow up question:

Has he received any transactions from you in the past? Or, is he claiming he never had any rent from you from day one?

If you've set him up as a payee and have made payments successfully in the past, then there's something very odd going on either at his end, or with the bank.

He's claiming that some but not all payments are missing. Which is very odd.

davo10

Eugene Norman wrote: »

He's claiming that some but not all payments are missing. Which is very odd.

Decimal point in wrong place? It would explain the odd amount which does not correspond with rental amount owed for 6 months.

Metroboulot

The only thing that could be going wrong on your end is that with *some* (not all) banks if you process an online payment and you've insufficient funds, it will seem like it's gone through but, then won't actually come out of your account.

This happens with a certain major bank if you try to put through a transaction outside the cut off time which I think is 3pm weekdays.

Effectively, the transaction's held by the system and processed the following day and if there's insufficient funds it just declines.

AFAIK, AIB and most of the others will deduct funds live so that shouldn't be possible.

It would show up as a failed transaction on your statement though and it'd be pretty obvious.

Eugene Norman

davo10 wrote: »

Decimal point in wrong place? It would explain the odd amount which does not correspond with rental amount owed for 6 months.

Actually he says he does it manually which does increase the margin of error. So it could be that.

Metroboulot

So, you're keying their account details manually every time you do the transaction?

wobbles

Definately dont give him a full statement. Whatever about him wanting to check that payments have gone out, He will see what payments are coming in. Once he sees what you earn, your rent may go up if he knows you can afford it.

Meet with the bank, confirm if payments were sent to the correct account and each month. If its all above board then tell him to follow up his side, nothing more you can do

awec

No the OP says they are using the saved details.

OP if he has received some money from you then you are going to have to go through your statements and look at the dates you made payment and check your balance to make sure there was sufficient funds. Easiest is to go to bank and get them to confirm if the payments were all successfully taken.

These payments don't just go missing, the system is robust. Either you haven't actually made payments or the landlord has made a mistake reading his account.

GerardKeating

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I transfered it is there a difference in that and lodging it?

Could your landlord have changed bank and forgot to tell you?

You might mention which bank you use. The aib web site allows one to print the exact details of each and every transaction.

davo10

davo10 wrote: »

Decimal point in wrong place? It would explain the odd amount which does not correspond with rental amount owed for 6 months.

Or a classic accounting error of transposing numbers - typing 580 instead of 850 - it generally gives a round number as an error.

Metroboulot

Metroboulot wrote: »

So, you're keying their account details manually every time you do the transaction?

I doubt you can do this with any bank anyway and the op has confirmed he used saved details. With BOI you cannot transfer money without setting up the person as a payee and entering your verification code. This is then saved for future transactions.

I pay my rent in this way as I prefer to do it manually rather than use a standing order I just rather it this way. I pay any bill that allows it manually.

ConfusedNow13

I will start with the bank certifying the transactions tomorrow. I panicked as this is my home and a lot of money and it seems so odd that it would not be noticed until now. I check my account at least once a week.

ConfusedNow13

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I will start with the bank certifying the transactions tomorrow. I panicked as this is my home and a lot of money and it seems so odd that it would not be noticed until now. I check my account at least once a week.

You can go back through your statements online yourself and check if the money went out and the amount was right.

As an aside I check my account at least once if not twice a day so I always know exactly what's happening and would spot anything out of the ordinary very fast.

Metroboulot

I tend to dip into any account with a card attached to it at least daily. Only way to avoid being cleared out by fraud and not noticing.

ConfusedNow13

I have verified them on line but want a second look and the bank agreed to help so I will go in tomorrow. As better safe then sorry, I can't imagine missing rent payments for that long and not saying anything or seeing it

muggles

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I have verified them on line but want a second look and the bank agreed to help so I will go in tomorrow. As better safe then sorry, I can't imagine missing rent payments for that long and not saying anything or seeing it

You just need the swift instruction from your bank for each payment. This will confirm the route the funds took to payee's account.

You seem quite concerned as to how the landlord may have missed such amounts of money. Quite frankly this is not an issue for you. What may seem large amounts to you may not be to others. Everything is relevant. If landlord owns a number of properties or businesses etc such accounts may not be looked at it detail until he is compiling accounts and filing returns.

jamesbere

What I can't understand is why is the landlord only getting on to you now about missing rent. 6 months rent is alot of money.

How long have you been living there?

Mat the trasher

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

I have verified them on line but want a second look and the bank agreed to help so I will go in tomorrow. As better safe then sorry, I can't imagine missing rent payments for that long and not saying anything or seeing it

Hi, I would also ask the LL which months payments he is missing, puts some onus on him to properly examine his accounts. Tell him you have bank receipts for all payments (assuming that's the case and there's no issues on your side), and if you need to get your bank to follow certain payments that did not arrive, you need to identify which ones.

Failing any reply from the LL, you bank receipts would be considered proof of payment. No more to do on your part.

percy212

As you said OP, just get a history of all your payments to your LL from your account. Get a printout on bank headed paper. Get the person you speak to at the bank to sign the printout. Send a photocopy of it to your LL by registered post. That should be the end of the matter.

If your LL makes any further trouble get legal advice from Threshold. You cannot be evicted.

Who knows, maybe the bank are taking money from the LL for non payment of mortgage etc. Lots of fools out there...