Rent Missing for Landlord account

davo10

percy212 wrote: »

As you said OP, just get a history of all your payments to your LL from your account. Get a printout on bank headed paper. Get the person you speak to at the bank to sign the printout. Send a photocopy of it to your LL by registered post. That should be the end of the matter.

If your LL makes any further trouble get legal advice from Threshold. You cannot be evicted.

Who knows, maybe the bank are taking money from the LL for non payment of mortgage etc. Lots of fools out there...

And here too, how would the bank be "taking money" from the LL without him knowing? That would be theft.

The print out may confirm that payments were made to someone, but if the LLs account shows the payments were not made, then the printout may confirm that the payments were in error.

And the op can be evicted for non payment of rent, hence the importance of finding out where exactly the money went.

celligraphy

Hi op, I remember giving my bank details before for a job I got, when I got paid I looked at my atm account to take money, realised there was nothing in my account and went into work the next day to realise I had only gone and given them my saving account details which my wages got paid into , extremely similar to my current account number.

percy212

In fact a bank can take money from your account if you owe it to them. Look it up.

The OP has stated that they paid the rent and if that is the case they cannot be evicted. In any case, as you well know, it is very difficult to evict anyone for any reason, so the OP should not be afraid of losing their home.

davo10 wrote: »

And here too, how would the bank be "taking money" from the LL without him knowing? That would be theft.

The print out may confirm that payments were made to someone, but if the LLs account shows the payments were not made, then the printout may confirm that the payments were in error.

And the op can be evicted for non payment of rent, hence the importance of finding out where exactly the money went.

davo10

percy212 wrote: »

In fact a bank can take money from your account if you owe it to them. Look it up.

The OP has stated that they paid the rent and if that is the case they cannot be evicted. In any case, as you well know, it is very difficult to evict anyone for any reason, so the OP should not be afraid of losing their home.

Not without informing you, and if you had the money in your account in the same bank where you have a mortgage, why wouldn't you be paying your mortgage? Provide a link that allows a bank to take money from your accounts without informing you.

It has yet to be confirmed who is right and who is wrong, that is why the op is going into the bank tomorrow and if it turns out that rent has not been paid to the LLs account, then OP is in arrears and non payment of rent is a cause for eviction.

Carawaystick

If the OP has evidence they paid the LL account, they should tell the landlord this and hunker down for the prtb

ConfusedNow13

Thanks for all the help and information. I am well aware of what the implications are if rent isn;t paid. As why I am so very concerned about this. I don't normally reach out settings like this. I was just so blind sided by the whole thing. That I need some guidance. If I made an error I will do all I can to correct it. I just state and mean this I feel sort of odd and question why a LL would allow this for 6 months and say nothing and not tell me exactly what months where missing. So I will do my do dilligance. As I am sure you understand panic can set in and reason can float away. Eviction is not coming this week and I have a paper trail.
Thank you so much.

percy212

davo10 wrote: »

Not without informing you, and if you had the money in your account in the same bank where you have a mortgage, why wouldn't you be paying your mortgage? Provide a link that allows a bank to take money from your accounts without informing you.

It has yet to be confirmed who is right and who is wrong, that is why the op is going into the bank tomorrow and if it turns out that rent has not been paid to the LLs account, then OP is in arrears and non payment of rent is a cause for eviction.

It was the OP who posted for assistance here, not the LL, and that is why my advice is supportive of the OP.

I am not sure why you are belabouring your point about a bank dipping into an account for loss mitigation, and I don't feel like arguing with you. Look it up yourself.

As for why someone would not pay a mortgage while having income, the country is rife with such amatuer landlords, or as they like to refer to themselves, investors. Look up the number of non performing investment mortgages in Ireland.

OP - once again, get confirmation from the bank, send it to the LL, and sit tight. You will not be evicted. Do not allow yourself to be bullied. The law protects renters.

tharmor

If money did not reach LL, OP would have got return back into his/her account as per SEPA Credit xfer rules in next 3-4 days...One side is lying and I am not taking any sides !!

TheChizler

There seems to be a bit of confusion OP, what was the exact chain between the landlord giving you account details and you making payments?

Did they give a sort code and account number, or IBAN and BIC?

Did you use an IBAN calculator at any point?

You saved the account details, was this done the first time you made a payment?

What account details were saved? IBAN and BIC or sort code and account number?

Did you ever manually type in account details when making subsequent payments, or was it always done by clicking saved details and the only typing was the amount?

Looking back on your statement, was the account debited each time by the correct amount?

Was there ever an account credit for the rent amount at any stage?

murphaph

It shouldn't be possible to send to a non existant IBAN unless you mess up the check digits as well (very unlikely). I can't understand why the LL can't tell the OP which months are missing or incorrect. That part doesn't add up to me (and I'm a LL).

coffee_cake

OP you seem to be working off the default assumption that the fault is on your end. It MIGHT be, but please also remember the landlord could be messing you around, maybe if he knows you are easily panicked or pressured into things he might get more money out of you, or something else. Or it could be a genuine mistake on his part.
I'd nearly be demanding bank statements from him as well to prove some months were missing.

Do meet with the bank to satisfy yourself and your own conscience, but after that there will be little you can do except maybe talk to the PRTB.
Do not give your LL unredacted bank statements

TheChizler

murphaph wrote: »

It shouldn't be possible to send to a non existant IBAN unless you mess up the check digits as well (very unlikely). I can't understand why the LL can't tell the OP which months are missing or incorrect. That part doesn't add up to me (and I'm a LL).

If you use an IBAN calculator it will generate valid check digits, there's a modulus check in the old account number but it's not hugely unlikely that a mistake will end up with an existing account number.

Sala

I do the same, an electronic transfer with saved details. The only issues I've ever had is it being a day late. Check the following:
1) each rental payment was sent to the correct payee
2) each payment was for the correct amount
3) check your balance at the time-'that the money actually left your account.

The it's up to your landlord to find out what's happened on his end

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

They should take a hike! Why is the onus on you to prove you sent the money? Maybe you should ask for the landlord's statements?

lol this is the dumbest thing I've ever read tbh

quietsailor

I bank with BOI and while you can set up a payee's IBan & BIC to be stored in my account I have to input the amount each time I send money to that payee.
OP - check your accounts and see if the correct amount went out every mont

Online banking also allows me to save my transactions as an excel sheet. OP - if you're comfortable using excel merge every month's transactions into one sheet and then filter by whatever reference is for the landlord, that will quickly show you all the transactions in one place

Greyian

Metroboulot wrote: »

I tend to dip into any account with a card attached to it at least daily. Only way to avoid being cleared out by fraud and not noticing.

What? How does using your card everyday avoid you being cleared out by fraud?

Dial Hard

Greyian wrote:

What? How does using your card everyday avoid you being cleared out by fraud?

They meant they check the account every day.

TheChizler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

lol this is the dumbest thing I've ever read tbh

How so? I expect a full explanation as to why it's dumb considering best knowledge when I posted that was that the OP had provided the landlord with bank statement details of payments made to them.

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

lol this is the dumbest thing I've ever read tbh

It's perfectly sane. Both sides should have to show bank accounts, if any ( as bluewolf also pointed out)

J. Ramone

OP, you need to send a letter asap to your landlord detailing the IBAN and BIC as set up on your internet banking and a list of payments made using those details. Request your landlord to respond in writing with details of any disagreement with your records.

Your landlord has overstepped the mark in asking for your personal financial records and I would be quite sure he would not put such a request in writing. If the landlord has received the money he is either an idiot or is making fraudulent demands on you. Keep the tone of the letter friendly and helpful. My guess is that you are dealing with quite a piece of work who is taking advantage of your vulnerability as a tenant.

Is your tenancy registered with the PRTB?

CollyFlower

Don't panic, could the payments have gone to someone's else account? If that's what happened the bank will withdraw the money back from that account, hopefully.

awec

CollyFlower wrote: »

Don't panic, could the payments have gone to someone's else account? If that's what happened the bank will withdraw the money back from that account, hopefully.

They can't just reverse payments.

If the OP has paid to the wrong account the bank will need to start an investigation. If it's across banks this will probably take a bit longer. The person who received it in error won't just have money magically taken from their account, especially if the money isn't actually there.

CollyFlower

awec wrote: »

They can't just reverse payments.

If the OP has paid to the wrong account the bank will need to start an investigation. If it's across banks this will probably take a bit longer. The person who received it in error won't just have money magically taken from their account, especially if the money isn't actually there.

An investigation? It's just a couple of clicks by the bank, not a big deal.

Irishcrx

CollyFlower wrote: »

An investigation? It's just a couple of clicks by the bank, not a big deal.

It isn't as easy as ' Oh sorry I've paid you 6k by accident and the bank click and take it back' what if the person they have transfered to is aware of it, dishonest , chancing their arm and spent the money?

It could get very messy in that case.

Ray Palmer

You can just give him the transaction numbers so the bank can check the details

awec

CollyFlower wrote: »

An investigation? It's just a couple of clicks by the bank, not a big deal.

No it's not. They are not allowed to do that.

Butters1979

Sorry but after reading the whole thing and all the OP’s responses I still can’t be quite sure what’s happening.
OP, do your bank records show you paying the correct amount, to the same account every month for the entire duration of your tenancy? Be very careful about this. It is the first thing you should check and must be sure. This is something I cannot tell from 6 pages of discussion.
Yes/No?
If no, where are the gaps, how much are they and do they add up to the amount the LL is missing?
If yes:

Does the account you are paying into match the account your LL says you should pay into? Yes/No
If no, you need to find out with the bank what account you have paid into.
If yes, ask the bank for an official record of all these payments, and send them to the LL and ask him where in these records do not match his records. This is proof you have paid what you should have paid and where, and it is now on him to prove otherwise with bank records etc.

If you did not have enough in your account to complete the online transaction it would have failed there and then and been very obvious.
The fact that all rent is done through online banking means it is very unlikely the LL is chancing his arm as it would be impossible to prove. Although they may be particularly nasty and hope you are just scared into giving him more money, this is unlikely.
The fact that he received money but not all means it very unlikely the account details are wrong.
Also if you were paying money into an account by accident this is your fault and is on you to prove it was a mistake and is difficult to get the money back. This is to prevent people taking money back that they actually should have paid, you cannot just ask the bank to debit someone else’s account for you.

The most likely thing here is someone is mistaken. Either the OP has not transferred the money correctly or the LL is getting confused about his accounts and where his money is coming and going, quite possible for some of these cowboy investors with multiple accounts.

Do not give him your bank statements, it is not any of his business and is dangerous to give out this information to someone you don/t know too well.

Butters1979

Butters1979 wrote: »

Also if you were paying money into an account by accident this is your fault and is on you to prove it was a mistake and is difficult to get the money back.

If the LL gave incorrect bank details though then surely that's his fault.

I don't think that's the case here as the op said some rent was received but just pointing it out.

JapaneseLove

ConfusedNow13 wrote: »

Hi

I have paid by direct debit rent to landlords account. Landlord is now claiming that 6500 euro has not been paid. I am not handing over my bank statements to my landlord as was asked.
But landlord claims that some payments not all payments were received. And that this is just being noticed now sense april.

I am very suspicious of this. I have phoned my bank and have a meeting with the Accounts Manager tomorrow to take a look at this but I have no rent book and the landlord has never (even after being asked) provided receipts. I have emailed threshold and not heard back (in fairness only about 10a this morning)

Was wondering if there was any advise thoughts anyone has?
I am not looking to cause trouble if the money didn't make it to the landlord I need to track it down but am I required to hand over my bank account to my landlord? As proof? I am current with rent this is a back rent issue. As stated from april for several month that is just now being "caught"
Thank you

If the money hasn't gone in on previous dates, and he didn't notice then its the LL's problem. Happened me before and LL tried to evict me. But it turned out that it was his own fault for not checking his account. Dont show him your bank statements, they are confedential.

ebbsy

Receipts are not being allocated correctly on the Landlord's side Id say.