Daughter sent home from pre-school for the second time

itsasecret

Hi everyone,

My four year old seems to be struggling with pre-school and to be honest I'm not sure how to help her. She is my second child and I have a three month old. She goes into pre-school happy. The first time they rang the said she had been screaming for an hour. That was about three weeks ago. At the time I collected her and said nothing about the fact preschool had suggested strong I get her, I was worried she would link bad behaviour with a half day off preschool. They said she was having a power struggle with them but after an hour they had to move on. Today she would not do what she was told (sit on her seat) and then pushed other kids off. She was told that if she continued they would call me and she told them too and they did. I read her the riot act.

She is such a smart child but I'm really worried she will see herself as a "bad" or "naughty" child. She is headstrong and testing at home but pretty much like every other 4 year old I know. I'm also very aware that I do have a new baby . Anyone got any suggestions how to handle this, I'm really worry she will be kicked out of pre-school..

Ken Shamrock

I'm no expert In parenting, but do you think It could have something to do with the new baby? Maybe she Is jealous and wants attention, that's why she's acting out and wanted the school to call you?

itsasecret

Hi Ken,

That has come to my mind too, her behaviour at home is not too bad and she loves the new baby, like won't leave him alone. But of course I'm more busy and tired then I was before. It's hard to know what to do because she seems to be keeping most of the bad behaviour for pre-school.

January

I think they're being very quick to call you over these two incidents. My 4 year old is in pre-school and she has had some incidents (3 since the start of school, one I was actually outside the door listening to as it was nearly collection time) at no point have they ever suggested taking her home early. I am told when she misbehaves, when she hit another child she was made apologize and told not to do it again, she said sorry and hasn't done it again. She refused to put on her coat at home time and screamed at the teacher that she hated her and was roaring crying but the teacher just let her scream for a while and asked was she finished after a few minutes and she was.

How Strange

I agree with January. I'd be more concerned with the staff's training to deal with very typical pre-school behaviour than with your child. I'd guess that their reaction to her initial behaviour just causes it to escalate.

itsasecret

Thanks guys.. She went to Playschool there, three afternoon a week but the main career left and a new girl started just as pre-school started. It was another bad day, she threw a jigsaw across the room and the kicked it and broke it (they did not ring me but told me after, feel like worse parent ever)

Sunny Dayz

itsasecret wrote: »

Thanks guys.. She went to Playschool there, three afternoon a week but the main career left and a new girl started just as pre-school started. It was another bad day, she threw a jigsaw across the room and the kicked it and broke it (they did not ring me but told me after, feel like worse parent ever)

Well in that case it sounds like her problem is more to do with her new carer than her new sibling...

How Strange

Try to talk to her about how she feels before she acts like this in playschool. Ask her what she is feeling and try to get some information from her. At that age she should be able to tell you quite a lot. Then try to help her create coping skills to avoid the behaviour.

Empathise with her and tell her you understand how she feels.

This kind of thing definitely works with my 4.5 year old who can be quite impulsive and hot headed at times.

itsasecret

Thanks how strange, I have asked her and she said she is bored.. I will try to talk to her about it.

deisemum

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Well in that case it sounds like her problem is more to do with her new carer than her new sibling...

This; it looks like the new carer isn't handling it too well and your DD's behaviour is fairly typical of a lot of children her age when trying to deal with change so quit thinking you're the worst parent.

mitresize5

so its either the new babys fault

or its the mothers fault

or its the pre schools fault

Or its the new carers fault

........ anything to be said for the child actually being naughty and needing to be corrected and/or disciplined?

edit: not having a pop at you OP, I just feel at times a lot of people look for every excuse besides the child actually being bold, including my own I might add

January

There's a reason the child is acting up in school. OP said the child said she was bored, I'd work on that and ask the pre-school to keep her occupied a bit better, is the 'work' too easy for her?

If the child is being naughty then they can't ring the mother every time it happens, that's just ridiculous. The pre-school need to work out a strategy for discipline if the child misbehaves. In our pre-school they use the thinking chair, if child continues they are sent to the other pre-school room. Similarly, if the child is good and does good work etc they are sent to the other room for extra praise by the other teacher also.

pwurple

mitresize5 wrote: »

so its either the new babys fault

or its the mothers fault

or its the pre schools fault

Or its the new carers fault

........ anything to be said for the child actually being naughty and needing to be corrected and/or disciplined?

edit: not having a pop at you OP, I just feel at times a lot of people look for every excuse besides the child actually being bold, including my own I might add

Mitresize5 , Of course All children are naughty sometimes.. But the preschool sending a child home every time they are naughty is just ridiculous, unworkable and in my experience completely unheard of. What is that teaching the child? Misbehave and I get to go home?

There are two approaches... Use the discipline policy they have AND find a root cause. It's not one or the other.

My own misbehave too, and get disciplined but I know they are usually naughty for a reason. Hungry, tired, bored, hurt etc.

Barely There

pwurple wrote: »

Mitresize5 , Of course All children are naughty sometimes.. But the preschool sending a child home every time they are naughty is just ridiculous, unworkable and in my experience completely unheard of. What is that teaching the child?

The kid was screaming for an hour, imagine how distressing that must have been for the other kids. The staff need to consider the welfare of these children too and in my view acted totally appropriately.

Describing a child as " headstrong and testing" is usually a euphemism used by parents to avoid using other phrases to describe the actions of their child that might be more appropriate.

From what is described in the OP, it sounds like the child is lacking in basic discipline.

Rubberchikken

basic consistent discipline in both the home and the preschool.
the op needs to give serious thought to how the child is disciplined at home. it's fine to say she's smart headstrong etc but that's often another way of describing a child who is lefty run riot.

there maybe a lack of proper discipline in the preschool also. maybe the person who has come in is inexperienced and needs time to settle.
op, speak with the manager. agree consistent discipline for your daughter. follow it at home. at 4 she will be only too willing to want her own way, but she should be able to be reasoned with and corrected to.

plus give her some one to one time when you can but the consistency in discipline now will help when she goes onto primary school where a lot more will be expected of her. good luck

itsasecret

I should say in theory I don't mind the Playschool ringing me. I can see how an hour of screaming would not be acceptable. My husband asked what happened the lastest time and it seems my daughter was enjoying the attention of being given out too (basically laughing at them). I'm worried because she is a smart kid and if she links bad behaviour with an early ride home then I'm in real trouble.

itsasecret

I'm fairly strict but I do find her more difficult because unlike my son losing things like story time/ TV time is meet with " I don't care" .. Naughty step is done but again she will sit and not real care but for the most part you can blackmail her with lose of treat (ice-cream) but she can lose it over small things like which chair she gets to sit on at breakfast and I might be guilt of trying to advoid fights with her because once you are in a fight no one wins. I'm starting to think I might be in denial but she was at that same Playschool for two years with out problem. It's just since pre-school (new teacher/ new brother) .

Elliottsmum79

mitresize5 wrote: »

so its either the new babys fault

or its the mothers fault

or its the pre schools fault

Or its the new carers fault

........ anything to be said for the child actually being naughty and needing to be corrected and/or disciplined?

edit: not having a pop at you OP, I just feel at times a lot of people look for every excuse besides the child actually being bold, including my own I might add

Crikey, the OP was looking for help and insight. Where is the compassion here? They are trying to solve the problem, give them a break please. And it does sound like you're "having a pop". The word fault was never used here, except by you. Changes can have emotional impacts so while is might not be the FAULT of someone else it may be a part of the reason! Being bold might be true. It might just be that. However, that is a bit of a dead end in terms of helping him/her however. Lets get a bit more solution oriented?? How does she solve bold?

Elliottsmum79

itsasecret wrote: »

I'm fairly strict but I do find her more difficult because unlike my son losing things like story time/ TV time is meet with " I don't care" .. Naughty step is done but again she will sit and not real care but for the most part you can blackmail her with lose of treat (ice-cream) but she can lose it over small things like which chair she gets to sit on at breakfast and I might be guilt of trying to advoid fights with her because once you are in a fight no one wins. I'm starting to think I might be in denial but she was at that same Playschool for two years with out problem. It's just since pre-school (new teacher/ new brother) .

Just a bit of advice here. Naughty step/time out/thinking time is becoming a wasted/outdated concept- for many children it just wont work. Blackmailing is such a slippery slope in terms of discipline also. How about, when these episodes happen your carer ask her what happening/what's she's feeling. Tell her her behaviour is not ok. Its ok to feel her feelings but not to act them out on others. Is she Frustrated? Lonely? Angry? Sad? I dont think bored covers the reaction. Emotions are coming up and being acted out.

Once you/carers can identify the emotion you can help her process it better. Carer needs to get with this plan and support it completely ( should be well within her capabilities). Explain to your DD how her actions hurt others physically and emotionally- in an age appropriate way. Ask her to help you come up with a plan of what to do next time she feels this way ( and plan a strategy). Also, maybe look at the concept of lovebombing her to reset her emotional thermostat ( lots of mommy time for a weekend/lots of treats/her choices re food/activity etc). Make sure she gets lots of choices in her day to day life ( blue shoes or red shoes, pink hairband or blue one, what snacks/sandwiches etc to build her concept of self determination). Yes its tiresome and takes lots of effort esp with a new baby. But much more effective. These steps may be enough to settle children emotionally after a life change or upset. Good luck.

How Strange

itsasecret wrote: »

I should say in theory I don't mind the Playschool ringing me. I can see how an hour of screaming would not be acceptable. My husband asked what happened the lastest time and it seems my daughter was enjoying the attention of being given out too (basically laughing at them). I'm worried because she is a smart kid and if she links bad behaviour with an early ride home then I'm in real trouble.

Of course she likes the attention and for children it doesn't matter if the attention is from positive or negative behaviour. A well trained child minder will understand this and start to catch the moments when the child is doing something nice, good, positive and give lots of praise for that. After that, there are some tricks like distraction. If they see your daughter getting worked up and they know it will escalate they should divert her attention to something else. They would also ignore the bad behaviour by giving attention to the kids doing positive things. This is very effective as it literally takes the wind out of the child acting up. After that, taking her out of the situation for a few moments literally to calm down may help.

Unfortunately a 4 year old is quite good with language skills and understanding ably but they're still at mercy of the overwhelming emotions just like a toddler. Part of the job of the parent and the carer is to teach them coping skills to recognise the moments that they're about to lose control and what they can do to avoid it. Finally, as a consequence, take away something from her for defined periods of time but if you're going to do that then you have to follow it through no matter how much screaming and shouting it brings. If she leaned that a consequence will be carried through she'll place a value on them.

All this carry on is not good for your daughter. She is getting labelled as difficult and maybe bold and if this is reinforced enough she'll believe that's what she is. That's why I think talking to her, empathising with her, acknowledging her feelings and asking her how she thinks hangs could go differently and working out strategies with her will help immensely.

Tell she's a fantastic little girl and even you should try catching her doing nice things, no mater how fleeting they might be, so she starts learning that she's a nice, loving child.

We did a reward chart last year when my son was acting out in preschool. He knew that if he got a smiley face on Monday to Thursday he could go to his Gymboree class on Friday but if he even missed one then he couldn't. He missed the class on the first week even though I felt so mean carrying it through. He got his smiley faces every day for 6 weeks after that. At the end of 6 weeks he got s special surprise toy. After 6 weeks his behaviour just improved and there was no need for the chart any more.

Btw, my eldest is challenging and head strong and can be difficult and that's not s euphemism for anything else. It can be exhausting applying these principles but it works. We've got to 4.5yrs without bold steps or naughty corners.

iguana

This might seem a bit left of field, but does she have to go to playschool? If she hates it there and if you are at home, why send her?

itsasecret

That's the really funny thing, she does not hate it! She enjoys it and goes in happy. I will be going back to work in jan so keeping her at home is not an option... Also I think it's good to go.

Chemical Byrne

By taking her home from pre school early you are enabling and reinforcing bad and unwanted behavior on 2 levels:
1. She will come to see it as: behave badly, get sent home on a half day, score!!
2. Preschool will come to see it as child is too much hassle to discipline and control? Grand, call parents, sent em home, problem solved. Score!!

Next time they call tell them that for those hours you have entrusted the child to their care and it is their responsibility to care for and discipline them and that you will not be collecting them early again, barring a genuine illness or emergency. They will just have to suck it up and deal with it.

A less hard approach might be to tell the preschool you are working and coming in simply isn't an option, they will have to deal with it.

mordeith

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

A less hard approach might be to tell the preschool you are working and coming in simply isn't an option, they will have to deal with it.

That might be an option in national school where they are obliged to take in children. Playschools are (for the most part) private concerns, so therefore they can call it. However I will say that playschools tend to have a much higher 'expectation' of how children will behave. Our 4-year-old has had some very minor issues that a national school teacher would probably not bat an eyelid at.

Chemical Byrne

I'd be inclined to play hardball with them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have entrusted them to their care for x hours today and you will be coming to collect them at the usual finish time. And not a minute earlier and if they cannot handle that, then you'll be taking you business elsewhere.

zeffabelli

Have you ruled out organic causes?

itsasecret

I put up a reward chart on Monday with a list of five golden rules but it seems she lost it on Monday and ended up hitting the teacher. Got a phone call from preschool today to be told another child had slapped mine across the face but it seems for once she was the innocent party. When you say organic causes?

Neyite

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'd be inclined to play hardball with them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have entrusted them to their care for x hours today and you will be coming to collect them at the usual finish time. And not a minute earlier and if they cannot handle that, then you'll be taking you business elsewhere.

This is a ridiculous statement on so many levels:

Firstly they would just tell you to fcuk off with your kid. Considering that the vast majority of decent, reputable crèches are oversubscribed and have waiting lists, especially in built up areas they can pick and choose who they want in there.

So you've a choice of some that you've heard not so great things about, that have a high turnover of staff, who have not had a recent HSE inspection, who have not complied with directions arising from a HSE inspection. The dodgy crèches.

Or you put your child on a waiting list that could take a few weeks. And because you have no family nearby, there is nobody to help you with emergency childcare in the meantime. There is just you and your partner, and it could take weeks before a place in somewhere decent comes along. Explain that one to your boss.

Or the crèche backs down in the face of a domineering parent and you become that parent. The one that they cant stand and maybe you'll worry that your confrontational attitude has a knock on effect on the care and affection they give your child.

Then there is the minor issue of taking a pre-schooler, practically a baby, away from the day care facility she has just become familiar with, and dumping her overnight in a different one with strange faces as her peers and teachers she has never seen in her life. It's a child, not a car that you are getting serviced.

You aren't a parent. Or intending to be one in the near future. And its clear that you have very little direct experience or knowledge of even short term minding of a child, let alone how crèches operate. I'd never dream of going in to Athletics and Running and telling ultramarathon runners what their diet should be or tell them what their training regime should be because I know fcuk all about running besides doing a measly 5k once. I'd rightly be laughed out of the forum. So why are you doing that here?

pwurple

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'd be inclined to play hardball with them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have entrusted them to their care for x hours today and you will be coming to collect them at the usual finish time. And not a minute earlier and if they cannot handle that, then you'll be taking you business elsewhere.

LOL

Miaireland

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'd be inclined to play hardball with them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have entrusted them to their care for x hours today and you will be coming to collect them at the usual finish time. And not a minute earlier and if they cannot handle that, then you'll be taking you business elsewhere.

With the waiting lists of most creches I would guess if you threated to take your business elsewhere they would say goodbye.

Whitewinged

Its strange but i have a 3 and a half year old and new baby almost 3 months and my daughter has also randomly started crying in the creche. They didnt ask me to collect her or take her home so she wasnt that bad but they said it to me a couple of times when id arrive to collect her.

It hasnt happened for about two weeks now. I just had a little chat with her about it and she seems to be fine now. You know i think its just change thats all. Just speak with the creche and collect her if she gets too worked up and hopefully it will pass.