Daughter sent home from pre-school for the second time

Whispered

Just wondering what qualifies you to state with such confidence what every child does and doesn't need Mary63.

itsasecret

No, no written diary and have never seen an incident book. Would a lot of preschool do written daily diaries? She is only there from 9 to 12!

zeffabelli

Mary63 wrote: »

Op should have done her best long before this.

At least now she is showing the four year old who is in charge at home,this means there will be less conflict in school regarding knowing who is in charge there too.

Children need to know their boundaries,its as simple as that and all the permissive wishy washy stuff is a waste of time.Children dont need long winded discussions either,it just confuses them.

Holy ****. It's not even Sunday.

Why ya preaching?

Qualitymark

So, @Itsasecret, what have you done? Did you take your little girl out of this preschool? Did you talk to other parents? Did you take other action?

piperh

itsasecret wrote: »

No, no written diary and have never seen an incident book. Would a lot of preschool do written daily diaries? She is only there from 9 to 12!

Yes the diaries are an important record and the preschool should discuss it with you on a very regular basis. It will keep you informed of her daily activities and behaviour. They don't need to contain a lot of information for example : Sarah went outside at breaktime 11am and played in the house with Sally. Sarah had an incident with Jonny when she threw the book as she didn't want to share.
It keeps the parents informed as well as being a quick reference point for new/sub teachers.

Neyite

itsasecret wrote: »

No, no written diary and have never seen an incident book. Would a lot of preschool do written daily diaries? She is only there from 9 to 12!

Ours does. We get a slip of paper telling us what he ate (or didnt eat) before potty training it would also tell us how many wet and soiled nappies he had, if there was any issue with his nappies we needed to know, give an outline of some of the activites they did, and tell us the time he napped and for how long. If he was under the weather or in quiet/clingy form it would also describe that, and if they gave any calpol or neurofen too. And reminders periodically asking for nappies /suncream/ sunhat /nappy cream /wipes.

Even for the littlest things - a bite, a bump, a fall, there would be an incident report written out, it would be explained to us how it happened, how they treated the bruise, and we would sign it for their file and keep a copy.

Do the staff have adequate training and qualifications? I know in our creche, they all have at a childcare qualification, they are listed under the photo of each staffer in the lobby. But I do think that you can have qualifications coming out your ears, but that its a very vocational type of job - if you are ambivalent about kids it would be a very tough career.

Have you looked up the Tulsa Report for the preschool? You can see if they are conforming to standards set by the HSE. The more you talk about the pre-school, the more I think its not a good one at all.

Mary63

I have seen them with my own eyes and it isnt pretty.

I was in the new Dunlaoghaire library recently which is a wonderful facility.The children ran riot pulling every book off the shelf and throwing them on the floor,staff stood by glowering because there is no point in saying anything to parents who are sitting drinking lattes and on their mobile phone posting pictures of their children.There is a steel bar running through one of the floor to ceiling windows and one child managed to climb halfway up that,his minder/mother whatever sat watching him.

Its the same in the cafes,total inconsideration for other people.I cant even bring my elderly Aunt to McDonalds anymore because children treat it like a playground and my aunt will be knocked flying,its the same in the cinemas,the running up and down the aisles.I spoke to a manager recently and he said he had spoken to the parents three times and they ignored him.I spoke to another manager in TGI fridays recently because a party of ten year olds were tearing round the restaurant and throwing food,he again had spoken to the parents,they were at the party and just standing there.

These ten year olds were four year olds too,its much easier to get to grips with a discipline problem at four rather than ten.

zeffabelli

McDonslds is for kids.

It's like taking your elderly aunt to Disneyland and expecting not to be knocked down.

eviltwin

Mary63 wrote: »

I have seen them with my own eyes and it isnt pretty.

I was in the new Dunlaoghaire library recently which is a wonderful facility.The children ran riot pulling every book off the shelf and throwing them on the floor,staff stood by glowering because there is no point in saying anything to parents who are sitting drinking lattes and on their mobile phone posting pictures of their children.There is a steel bar running through one of the floor to ceiling windows and one child managed to climb halfway up that,his minder/mother whatever sat watching him.

Its the same in the cafes,total inconsideration for other people.I cant even bring my elderly Aunt to McDonalds anymore because children treat it like a playground and my aunt will be knocked flying,its the same in the cinemas,the running up and down the aisles.I spoke to a manager recently and he said he had spoken to the parents three times and they ignored him.I spoke to another manager in TGI fridays recently because a party of ten year olds were tearing round the restaurant and throwing food,he again had spoken to the parents,they were at the party and just standing there.

These ten year olds were four year olds too,its much easier to get to grips with a discipline problem at four rather than ten.

What has any of this got to do with the OP and her daughter? Gee give a girl a break, she's just had a baby and has this to cope with on top of it. Stop projecting.

Qualitymark

Yes, I've seen children misbehaving and parents standing smiling by. Curse of the middle classes, usually. I got the worst flu of my recent life a couple of years ago after going to a yummy-mummy cafe in Dartry where one of the attendance at a loud birthday party had a raging flu and was sneezing all over the joint.

Their mammies are the kind of women who hurtle through the streets in SUVs, scattering screaming cyclists before them :eek:

However, have we all forgotten RTE's Prime Time report on three creches, and the reports on creches in Ireland generally at the time?

http://www.thejournal.ie/a-breach-of-trust-prime-time-creches-929270-May2013/

A reminder of some of the figures:

• 75 per cent of pre-schools and creches are in breach of the childcare regulations
• 34 per cent are in breach of five or more regulations
• 57 per cent of Dublin creches had 5 or more breaches while 86 per cent did in Kildare had 5 or more breaches last year
• One-in-five creches in Roscommon breached 10 or more regulations last year
• In Kildare almost a quarter of creches breached 10 or more regulations
• 48 per cent of creches were in breach of regulation 8 concerning the adult/child ratios and staff background checks
• 29 per cent of creches were in breach of regulation 19 concerning the overcrowding and upkeep of premises
• 41 per cent of creches were in breach of regulation 27 on measures to provide a safe environment
• One in seven creches nationally were in breach of regulation 5 concerning the welfare of children

Neyite

Mary - next time you are bringing your elderly aunt out, don't bring her to a restaurant that gives out toys and balloons to kids to actively cater for children, families and children's parties and bring her for some pub grub somewhere nice where you can get a proper burger and chips in a child free environment. Complaining about kids in McDonalds is on a par with complaining that town is packed during the January sales. What do you expect, like?

You really sound like you hate kids. Apart from your own angels of course. Which is concerning given the profession you appear to be in. But your background as a teacher explains a lot about your posts in this thread. You are looking at behaviour from a teaching point of view, but childcare is very different - its about teaching toddlers life skills and behaviours so that when they land in a teachers classroom they know how to sit and pay attention and take instruction. And that I've been told by the childcare workers that I deal with daily.

itsasecret

Eh ok....thanks for the concern but my daughter behaves well in restaurant. And we don't go to McDonald's (think she has been once). My in-laws do bring her to Burger King if I'm not around (but I suspect that's cause they like the food) but she tends to just sit there eating 😀

And I don't own a suv ...

LegacyUser

OP, I don't think anyone, including myself, is attempting to make you feel bad or anything.

My kids are generally good, but like ALL kids, will act up, and sometimes they act up something terrible!

My point is, that I learned quickly enough from my mistakes, that by tackling that 'acting up' head-on, there's a much better chance of stopping it.

So for example, a few years ago we did have an issue with our daughter in Montessori. she had been 'messing' with one of the other kids quite a bit. It took a couple of days for the school to tell us about it as they tried to deal with it themselves.

As soon as we were told about it, we brought her home and spoke to her about it. she promised not to do it again and we didn't allow her out to play that evening with her friends. She was bawling crying.

she was good again for a few days and there was another incident about a week later. I had asked the Montessori teacher to let me know immediately if something happenes again. So she did.

I spoke to my daughter again about it and she wasn't allowed her weekend treat that weekend. Bawling crying again. But it worked. It stopped and there wasnt a problem after that.

Of course, there are other times when she acts up a bit, and we deal with each one of those individually.

My whole point is that behaviour like that needs to be addressed immediately. They need to know its wrong and that things will be taken from them if it doesnt stop.

Works for us anyway.

One of our children, who was 3 at the time we had a newborn in the house, went through a small period of being naughty when the child was a couple of months old. Everyone of course was telling us that it was because there was a new baby in the house, and maybe that was indeed the case. We still dealt with it there and then though and it stopped.

Qualitymark

itsasecret wrote: »

Eh ok....thanks for the concern but my daughter behaves well in restaurant. And we don't go to McDonald's (think she has been once). My in-laws do bring her to Burger King if I'm not around (but I suspect that's cause they like the food) but she tends to just sit there eating 😀

And I don't own a suv ...

Not talking about you *at all*, @itsasecret! Read back through my posts and you'll see that I wouldn't say such a thing about you.

Mary63

My Aunt likes mCDonalds because its actually quite user friendly for elderly people,the other restaurants we could go to involve using lifts or escalators.

McDonalds is not just for children and that is a total cop out.You are telling me I shouldnt go to McDonalds because its where parents bring their children to scream and shout and run around.

I took my children everywhere with me and they never shouted or ran around restaurants or libraries or shopping centres.I wanted to trip up two brats the other day In Tesco,they were playing chasing around the aisles and if they knocked an elderly person down that could be a broken hip and the beginning of the end.

I do think this is a matter staff should be dealing with,they ignore it for the most part while tut tutting.The parents should be approached and asked to control their children or remove them from the premises.Of course if a restaurant owner bans children he will have the breastfeeding lobby squeeling about equal rights,I think restaurant owners should be able to ban children if they want to.

Neyite,I dont hate children,I really resent their selfish parents though and the excuse oh,my darling is so clever and a little bit headstrong,his or her outrageous behaviour is nothing to do with me and everyone who has to deal with him on a professional basis should make allowances for his cleverness.

Flippyfloppy

Mary 63 you've clearly never studied a child development module.

zeffabelli

Mary63 wrote: »

My Aunt likes mCDonalds because its actually quite user friendly for elderly people,the other restaurants we could go to involve using lifts or escalators.

McDonalds is not just for children and that is a total cop out.You are telling me I shouldnt go to McDonalds because its where parents bring their children to scream and shout and run around.

I took my children everywhere with me and they never shouted or ran around restaurants or libraries or shopping centres.I wanted to trip up two brats the other day In Tesco,they were playing chasing around the aisles and if they knocked an elderly person down that could be a broken hip and the beginning of the end.

I do think this is a matter staff should be dealing with,they ignore it for the most part while tut tutting.The parents should be approached and asked to control their children or remove them from the premises.Of course if a restaurant owner bans children he will have the breastfeeding lobby squeeling about equal rights,I think restaurant owners should be able to ban children if they want to.

Neyite,I dont hate children,I really resent their selfish parents though and the excuse oh,my darling is so clever and a little bit headstrong,his or her outrageous behaviour is nothing to do with me and everyone who has to deal with him on a professional basis should make allowances for his cleverness.

Your posts are reflecting of a Victorian attitude to children which is akin to spiritual labotomy.

Mary63

I dont think so,its all about learning manners really,basic manners and consideration for other people.

A child with nice manners has been brought up properly and they are a pleasure to be around.

I was always complimented on my childrens behaviour and on their manners.

I would really think it reflected very poorly on my parenting if a playschool teacher had to suspend my four year old.

Orion

Mary63 wrote: »

Of course if a restaurant owner bans children he will have the breastfeeding lobby squeeling about equal rights,I think restaurant owners should be able to ban children if they want to.

Do you really believe what you're saying? McDonalds banning children is quite frankly the most stupid thing I've read on the internet today - and I read some ridiculous subreddits. It is a restaurant targetted at children.

btw it wouldn't be the breastfeeding lobby squeeling [sic]. It would be the IHRC who would be on the case - but probably not before the stockholders in the restaurant about the huge decrease in turnover. I'm also not aware of children who are being breastfed running around shouting - if they're doing that they're probably not being breastfed.

I think it's time you invested yourself with some facts before spouting any more nonsense.

Penny Tration

Mary63 wrote: »

I dont think so,its all about learning manners really,basic manners and consideration for other people.

A child with nice manners has been brought up properly and they are a pleasure to be around.

I was always complimented on my childrens behaviour and on their manners.

I would really think it reflected very poorly on my parenting if a playschool teacher had to suspend my four year old.

I'm sure you're complimented about their manners on a regular basis, but I'd imagine they probably grew up terrified of you.

You used the word 'domineering' in a previous post - it's an accurate description of you rather than the four year old in the original post.

Wanting to trip up children? Wanting staff to reprimand them in a restaurant where the target market is young children and families? Doing nothing but make up your own fantasy tales instead of actually reading what op has written?

You sound as though you want nothing more than to control everyone and everything. That extreme need for control usually manifests itself as abuse. I hope to god your appalling attitude doesn't permanently damage your children.

Mary63

I didnt say McDonalds should ban children.
I said restaurant owners who would like their clients to eat in peace without having to listen to badly behaved children should have the option to ban children from their premises.I would definitely be more inclined to go out and eat if I thought children were banned in restaurants I like.
The breastfeeding mums though as I said wouldnt like this as it would mean they would be banned too.
I think for some parents it just too much hassle and trouble to set consistent boundaries,they say one thing and then they give in because child screams or else they do things like follow their child to playschool to carry child upsrtairs and give child a hug while doing so.For Gods sake what is a child to think,its okay to refuse to go where you are told because your mother will trot along and give into your demands and give you a hug while shes at it.
If you show me a child manual that says this is good child rearing I will throw the manual in the fire.
I was so so tempted to push the trolley in the brats way as he charged past me at full speed for the tenth time,I also thought about tripping him up,I really really wanted to.
And most certainly staff should step in where cups of boiling coffee and tea are being balanced on trays in crowded restaurants where children are running around.Of course staff shouldnt have to interevene and they never had to when I brought my children out,my children know whats expected though and thats to sit down and behave yourself.

Penny Tration

Mary63 wrote: »

I didnt say McDonalds should ban children.
I said restaurant owners who would like their clients to eat in peace without having to listen to badly behaved children should have the option to ban children from their premises.I would definitely be more inclined to go out and eat if I thought children were banned in restaurants I like.
The breastfeeding mums though as I said wouldnt like this as it would mean they would be banned too.
I think for some parents it just too much hassle and trouble to set consistent boundaries,they say one thing and then they give in because child screams or else they do things like follow their child to playschool to carry child upsrtairs and give child a hug while doing so.For Gods sake what is a child to think,its okay to refuse to go where you are told because your mother will trot along and give into your demands and give you a hug while shes at it.
If you show me a child manual that says this is good child rearing I will throw the manual in the fire.
I was so so tempted to push the trolley in the brats way as he charged past me at full speed for the tenth time,I also thought about tripping him up,I really really wanted to.

it's genuinely scary that someone who is in a position (teaching) where they're supposed to nurture and feed a child's mind has described how she wanted to physically abuse and assault them in two posts.

Orion

I'm now speaking as a mod Mary63

You are very much trying my patience. You are flaming and low level trolling in this thread. Now even having a pop at breastfeeding mums. Are you anti-vaccine as well? In 160 posts you have managed 7 forum bans including a one week ban from this forum last year - all of them for flaming and trolling. I think that might be some sort of record.

Consider this a cease and desist. Any further attempt at baiting people, targetting sectors of society e.g. breastfeeding mums, trolling or going ridiculously off topic and you will receive a permanent ban from Parenting.

Mary63

Im not a teacher and I pity teachers,I really do.Their stress levels must be so high and they must be old beyond their years.

Not only do they have to deal with these awful children in their classrooms,they then have to deal with the parents complaining when they try to do the parents job,ie disciplining brats that they cant teach.

Anyone who expects children to arrive in school with manners is called a Victorian.

I am on the playschool teachers side,no question about it.

Orion

Mary63 wrote: »

I was so so tempted to push the trolley in the brats way as he charged past me at full speed for the tenth time,I also thought about tripping him up,I really really wanted to.

You're lucky you didn't post that after my warning. Advocating violence will not be tolerated - even if you're just "tempted to". I can see edits so don't try to get around this that way either.

zeffabelli

Speaking of manners Mary, you have demonstrated cruelty, a lack of compassion, judgementally mandate intolerance.

These are not even on the manners scale.

You confuse subordination and compliance and likely terror for manners. Not the same.

iguana

Mary63 wrote: »

I was always complimented on my childrens behaviour and on their manners.

Well so am I, repeatedly just about every single time we leave the house, and I have never once punished my son, nor do I ever intend to. I treat him like a young human being who needs to learn about the world not a domestic working animal that I need to break in. As a result I have so far raised a lovely and extremely happy young human being.

Mary63

I never terrorised my children,they were perfectly happy and are gorgeous young people now,I expected them to treat each other and everyone they came into contact with courtesy and consideration.

I have never had a single complaint from anyone about their behaviour and they went to creches,pre schools primary schools and now secondary school.They are all very clever too or at least clever enough to stay out of trouble.

I have not demonstrated cruelty,I have no compassion for four year old in question,she sounds just awful and no excuses eg,she is clever and headstrong and she has a new sibling would make any difference to me.

And yes,I was so angry in Tesco I did want to trip that child up,no one else was stopping him charging around at full speed so the thought did cross my mind,I would have said too that you had that coming.His parents probably would have sued Tesco though successfully.

Penny Tration

Actually his parents would have called the police on an adult who thinks it's okay to assault children.

Did your children grow up being assaulted as punishment for annoying you?

I'd recommend you see a gp to discuss your evident anger issues.

Orion

Mary63 wrote: »

And yes,I was so angry in Tesco I did want to trip that child up,no one else was stopping him charging around at full speed so the thought did cross my mind,I would have said too that you had that coming.His parents probably would have sued Tesco though successfully.

I thought I was was perfectly clear about this. Obviously not.

Mary63 banned. Please don't respond to her posts as she no longer has a right to reply.